2008 BMW M3 vs. 2008 Lexus IS F - Comparison Test

theoptimisticpessimist submitted on 04/10/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 5:27 PM
from: www.caranddriver.com

[109] user comments | category: Spy Shots

Tags: BMW.M3,Lexus,IS F,

Tag Links:

BMW.M3

Lexus

IS F

2008 BMW M3 vs. 2008 Lexus IS F - Comparison Test

“Competition,” said John D. Rockefeller, the founder of Standard Oil and an early poster child of the business monopoly, “is a sin.”

He’d certainly be horrified by the competition going on these days among the makers of sports sedans. To many, these are the jewels of the high-performance market, and yet they seat at least four and don’t require fortunes associated with Google stock.

Although the genre is deliciously broad, we’ll concentrate here on two cars: the cat’s meow of sports sedans, the BMW M3, and a newcomer from Lexus, the IS F. This fourth generation of the BMW M3 debuted last fall and is available as a two-door coupe, a four-door, and, coming soon, a convertible. Last December we pitted the new M3 coupe against the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG and Audi RS 4 [“Gluttons for Punishment”], and the result was a rout for the Bimmer. Neither the Lexus, which only comes as a sedan, nor the four-door M3, was available for that test, so this duel was a given. Read Article

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bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 10:28:17 AMView My AgentSpace

+17 Boost

Lexus once again loses to BMW...
Time for them to buy up several hundred M3's tear them apart, analyze them and try once again to duplicate this German masterpiece.

By the time Lexus figures out this generations M3 the new version will be out to spank some more Lexus butt.

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answer - 4/11/2008 12:08:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Sorry, I've read the article. I even scanned it a few more times. But I can't seem to find where in the review it states the IS-F is the complete POS you make it sound.

From my reading (and as supported by even the opening paragraph of the review) the IS-F is said to be a great car, and the M3 even better still.

That sounds like two very nice and capable cars to me. You however make it sound as if the article is a comparison between an F460 and a Greyhound bus.

answer - 4/11/2008 12:25:45 PMView My AgentSpace

+13 Boost

You are correct. Ferrari F430 is what I meant. (pardon my typo)

I'm basically saying that it is illogical for people to say how crappy the IS-F is, while at the same time bragging about the M3 beating it.

Fact is, the better the IS-F is, the more of an accomplishment the M3 beating it becomes. At least in the world of rational adults that is.

kthor - 4/11/2008 1:11:44 PM

+3 Boost

Answer, you seem to bite on even the most obvious bait.

gooch - 4/11/2008 3:02:02 PM

+2 Boost

Geez, where did he even say the Lexus is a POS? Your nerves are on edge, dude.

autopro - 4/11/2008 4:18:50 PMView My AgentSpace

-11 Boost

That is till that POS BMW engine craps out.Belive me it will break alot.I had the second gen.and the engine needed to be replaced.The dealer told me it was common on that model.

bmwdrvr - 4/12/2008 3:31:06 AM

+6 Boost

autopro you may want to read the BEST BETS for CONSUMER REPORTS, and see what famous BMW is listed on there hmmm the E46 BMW the 3rd generation and arguably the car that define the M car, i fail to see your reliability comment, and judging by how poor the v6 in the is, gs, and whatever other dozen cars are in including the camry are scoring poor in reliability whos to say the ISF will even be reliable, other than misguided perception

Bmw8ter - 4/11/2008 9:43:15 PM

+4 Boost

Not surprising....

He deleted my post on the R8 Spyder thread, because I mentioned the targa roof being impractical....what a dou**e.

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adamsaf723 - 4/11/2008 10:39:10 AM

+5 Boost

The IS-F - "Compared with a normal car it’s amazing, but it happens to run with a tough crowd."

That pretty much sums it up.

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bagwell - 4/11/2008 10:48:45 AM

-9 Boost

anyone wanna bet which car is the more reliable and is in the shop less????????????????????????

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bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 10:54:50 AMView My AgentSpace

+10 Boost

Yes, the M3 will be in the shop less..
Check consumer reports... M3 is on there most recommended list for sport coupe with the least problems and best reliability..

Neverfollow - 4/11/2008 11:19:58 AM

+13 Boost

And considering Toyota recalled another half million cars this week, I put my money on the M3 as well.

enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:21:56 AM

+12 Boost

please tell us...since bmw and lexus are two of the most reliable brands on the market.

wanna bet which one is going to cost a LOT more to maintain because service isn't included in the price?

MichaelTaylor - 4/11/2008 11:23:51 AM

Show Comment -18 Boost

Willis - 4/11/2008 11:35:31 AM

+16 Boost

Michael Taylor,

In the early 1950s Toyota was near bankruptcy due to poor quality sh*tbox quality cars. What saved them was the US government who commissioned them to build army trucks for our forces in nearby Korea. We actually monitored their quality control.

Looks like Toyota learned something from the Americans. Do some research before you post such stupid crap.

enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:50:35 AM

+12 Boost

michael:

read the news lately? problems with the GS, corolla, matrix, tundra,etc. recalls, rust, reliability issues. so much for benchmark.

enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:52:44 AM

+8 Boost

and toyota didn't START making quality cars until the 1960s and 1970s. they were total garbage for the first few decades. and they ALL they had going for them till the l990s was reliability.

bagwell - 4/11/2008 12:31:54 PM

-12 Boost

ok, BMW reliability is better than Lexus?? WTF ???
now I know you're all just BMW fonboiz....

bagwell - 4/11/2008 12:35:08 PM

-12 Boost

AND I SAID R-E-L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y!! not some crap maintenance plan LEARN TO READ! 10K oil change....ok.

BMW4me4ever - 4/11/2008 1:45:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

bagwell ... now you are being ridiculous. That is the only arguement you have, although there is no proven track record for a car like this by Lexus. The ' M3 ' has been proven over time to be one of the most reliable BMW's ever. You are basing your whole arguement on what you believe and not what you know. A performance car is alot different car than an everyday driving car. Only time will tell if Lexus can hold up with this type of car.

Maintenance crap? It is not our fault that lexus doesnt pay for the maintenance. There is alot more maintenance that goes into a performance car. Brakes cost more and tend to use up more quickley. Oil services are more frequently, especially during break in periods. Tune-ups are definitely more expensive. Luckily BMW pays for all of these services for the first 4 years or 50k miles. Lexus owners will have a rude awakening, when they have to replace the brakes after about 25k miles ...

1995e34 - 4/11/2008 3:08:25 PM

+6 Boost

if the best argument for the is-f over the m3 is reliability, your really grasping to like the is-f. get a camry, jackass!!!

lexusrox123 - 4/11/2008 6:55:23 PM

-6 Boost

nevertheless, considering that the is-f is lexus's FIRST attempt at a performance track car, its pretty good. however, since bmw has been making performance cars forever, of course it would make sense that the m3 beat the is-f!

stash84 - 4/12/2008 12:56:33 AM

-3 Boost

so now, all of the sudden cr is a good source for an opinion? oh..thats right..when they praise bmw its the truth but when they praise lexus or toyota, they are fools right?? lol..same bs...etc...etc

AdHominem - 4/12/2008 3:39:32 PM

+6 Boost

BMW has been making performance cars for decades and their customers drive the cars hard. BMW knows how to build these cars and they are reliable, so I would say the Lexus will end up in shop more as subtle weaknesses appear in the ISF.

My personal BMWs have had many track days and have been solidly reliable.

C63AMG - 4/12/2008 11:13:38 PM

+4 Boost

The party is over for Lexus superior quality reign of terror.

Audi, VW, BMW and even Merc have all cought up and some have passed Lexus by due to superior design teams and genuine R&D not stolen.

So off your high horse you come.

vladyxa - 4/11/2008 10:51:03 AM

+11 Boost

Few months ago, many people were praising "paper" specs of IS-F, that did not come out at that time, how much better it is than M3, how much more power it has than M3, how better it will handle than M3, and other crap.

This is the lesson for all those people - wait for the real thing to come out, before announcing "it's the killer".

Does it suck now to realize how wrong you were?

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BMW4me4ever - 4/11/2008 11:04:05 AMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

I have had the chance to drive both cars on a race track in spartanburg a couple days ago. My take on the Lexus IS-F during driving - Great sound to the engine. It is nicer looking in person, although the stacked exhausts are just ugly. Handling - a little too much body roll. The car likes to dip and roll a bit too much when entering and exiting corners. Also, have to agree with the drivers of Car & Driver about a seemingly lack of power when exiting turns. It is almost as though the Lexus took a little too much time to build up revs to engage the power of the engine. The M3 sedan is alot more responsive and quicker on a track. There is really no comparison to the 2 cars. We were easily catching the IS-F on laps when it started in front of us. Then when the M3 went first it was easily besting the IS-F.

I think the Is-F is a good first shot, but in regards to sports sedans it is not really in the same league of the M3. The M3 is awesome. I have been to many track & ride and drive events, and the M3's I drove are the best cars I have ever driven by BMW.

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enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:20:14 AM

+9 Boost

no surprises here. if you want the best, the M3 remains the singular choice.

"In every performance test of note, the M3 outgunned the Lexus, yet it didn’t trail in refinement or comfort...Maybe BMW hasn’t gotten this generation of iDrive right, but the rest of the car has no equal among many peers."

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MichaelTaylor - 4/11/2008 11:21:00 AM

Show Comment -20 Boost

MichaelTaylor - 4/11/2008 11:21:30 AM

Show Comment -20 Boost

JRobUSC - 4/11/2008 11:23:44 AM

+17 Boost

ok, I always THOUGHT you were a fake, now I KNOW you are.

MichaelTaylor - 4/11/2008 11:24:44 AM

Show Comment -20 Boost

enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:25:25 AM

+15 Boost

really? i don't think that 'heritage' explains why the M3 beats the lexus in every performance measure that matters. not to mention the M3 is much better looking.

lexus did a good job on this car, but it's no M3.

enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:26:44 AM

+15 Boost

and michael, this is a PERFORMANCE car. so please let us know why you think the ISF is a better PERFORMANCE car. got any numbers?

BMW4me4ever - 4/11/2008 11:28:46 AMView My AgentSpace

+14 Boost

Michael ... have you even driven both cars? Until you do, then your opinions have no logic. What do you base it on? I have driven both on a race track & there is no comparison between them. The M3 is quicker, more responsive, tighter and more direct feel.

For the Lexus fans, what is up with the cheap plastic Platinum Trim around the gearshift lever? That was the cheapest thing I have ever seen on a $60k plus car.

MichaelTaylor - 4/11/2008 12:23:14 PM

Show Comment -18 Boost

JRobUSC - 4/11/2008 12:47:48 PM

+10 Boost

guys, don't argue with him, he's a troll. Same as GoObama, who tries constantly to make GoObama08 look bad (like he needs help with that), MichaelTaylor isn't a real Lexus fan. He's just some jackass trying to stir the pot. Ignore him.

07G35J - 4/11/2008 1:05:35 PM

+8 Boost

MichaelTaylor, isn't it time for your medication and nap? Go to bed little boy.

Jaybrn - 4/12/2008 8:48:30 AM

+5 Boost

Micheal,
Those Taste of Lexus events must have quite an impact on you. I love how your "opinion" counters many points that journalists who actually compare these cars say. The M3 has been repeatedly found to be easier to drive because it suspension is better dampened, less roll than the IS-F. I suppose you don't drive manual transmission, is that what you meant?

EL34 - 4/11/2008 11:28:38 AM

+11 Boost

Props are in order for the BMW M3.

Congratulations to BMW for building the would a wonderful machine.

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EL34 - 4/11/2008 12:02:28 PM

+10 Boost

I meant world.

BMW Numero Uno in Mexico too!!!

Homer008 - 4/12/2008 1:10:57 AM

-1 Boost

EL34 = JesusChrist LMAO..jackass.

bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 11:32:49 AMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

MichaelTaylor is another poser. Once again the Lexus Fan Bois have to create multiple profiles to boost their own comments so that their Pro Lexus comments won't turn blue and be hidden due to deboosting.

Poor bois, gotta feel for them when Lexus is consistently beaten by BMW in every category with each of it's models.

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lexusrox123 - 4/11/2008 7:01:47 PM

0 Boost

why do you keep spelling boys wrong?? just curious.
btw, i could call myself a lexus fanboy , but i'm not as extreme as obama08, MT, etc. in other words, i dont make stupid comments like "the is-f owns the m3." --that is simply not true...i admit it!

FactsRule - 4/12/2008 2:33:40 AM

+5 Boost

I am spelling "boi" or "boy" correctly when relating to material such as on this thread.

"Boi" is the commonly used term to relate to a fan based subject when preceded by a proper noun.

M3owns - 4/11/2008 11:34:15 AM

+11 Boost

The fight for this class is between the M3 and the C63 amg. Lexus tried and I respect that but their car is not good enough as the others.

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Willis - 4/11/2008 11:36:27 AM

+2 Boost

I think all cars here are good. They each have their own appeal. I'm more of a BMW and Benz guy, but for the sake of neutrality here I am going to say: Give me the RS4!

answer - 4/11/2008 11:35:34 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Kudos to BMW for maintaining the standards of the M division.

Kudos should also go to Lexus. While the IS-F won't "best" the M3, just the fact that it is deemed a worthy competitor is quite an acomplishment for a first at bat.

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kpaxx - 4/11/2008 2:07:30 PM

-10 Boost

Any car company can make a competitor to the M3.

answer - 4/11/2008 2:27:14 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

But very few can make a worthy one such as the C63 or IS-F.

That's why the IS-F's first try is successful.

Let's say next month Car&Driver says the new Benz beats the M, by your own logic then the M wouldn't be a competitor to the Benz.

M53R - 4/13/2008 6:58:06 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Thank you for proving not all Lexus fans are fanboys.

audirevolution - 4/11/2008 11:52:08 AM

+12 Boost

I couldn't help but laugh. It's somewhat ironic when you say "can go to hell".

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lexusrox123 - 4/11/2008 7:05:30 PM

+3 Boost

LOL!

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Homer008 - 4/12/2008 1:13:58 AM

+1 Boost

Hey EL34, why 2 screen names?

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_43LE - 4/11/2008 11:54:56 AM

0 Boost

Kudos to BMW, I don't think that anyone here would have put the IS-F ahead of the M3.

However, I would like to have the body and interior of the IS-F with the drivetrain and chassis of the M3 put together.

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EL34 - 4/11/2008 12:01:37 PM

0 Boost

Now we all know your nuts!

_43LE - 4/11/2008 12:07:36 PM

+1 Boost

The same can be said of you, but we all knew that a long time ago didn't we?

07G35J - 4/11/2008 12:54:07 PM

+5 Boost

As I've said before, the IS-F was a very good effort by Lexus to play with the big boys (M3, S4, C63).

But the M3 is, well, the M3. It has been, and so far, still is the benchmark, and benchmarks are not easy to beat.

Good try, Lexus, but it looks like you're going to have to go back to the drawing board (while you're at it, get rid of those fake exhaust tips. They are just ridiculous).

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stash84 - 4/12/2008 1:02:18 AM

0 Boost

every car has fake exhaust tips..youre just a hater

07G35J - 4/13/2008 2:48:46 AM

+3 Boost

That's true. Every car has fake exhaust tips... BUT THEY ARE ATTACHED TO THE TAIL PIPES!!! Unlike the IS-F, which are on the bumper cover... not even touching the exhaust... That's what I meant.

FactsRule - 4/11/2008 1:38:24 PM

-1 Boost

I wonder where all the Lexus Fan Boyz are today?

Usually XeroKool aka kraut_master2 is trolling the BMW Beats Lexus threads spewing his repugnent vomit of how much better Lexus is, even though BMW kicks Lexus' ASS everytime..

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Ironman273 - 4/11/2008 1:48:35 PM

+7 Boost

Having been on both sides of this coin (BMW and Lexus) and having just come back from driving both the M3 and the IS-F (and the S5) on the track back to back I can tell you that the IS-F is a great sports sedan. Driving them back to back you can see why the M3 won, but the win is in the fine details. A person owning an IS-F would be perfectly happy with what it's supposed to be. The two cars only differentiate themselves at the limit.

That being said, I think the cars are just different looks to a similar end package. I don't really like the trim on the IS-F or vent in the fornt quarter-panel. I like the look of the exhaust, and as it's been covered to death here, there are 4 tailpipes behind the tips, but since the tips are integrated into the bumper for a cleaner look they can't be connected since the exhaust has to have some float in it. Other high end manufacturers have done the same with no gnashing of teeth so I chalk it up to people having to complain about something, anything.

So yes, the M3 does win because it deserves it. 4 generations of M3s does stand for something. However, the Lexus is far from being a nice try and better luck next time. It's a superb vehicle, particularly for a first time in the segment, and it's probably just going to keep improving with each generation. The problem for Lexus is that so will the M3.

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BMW4me4ever - 4/11/2008 2:02:05 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

I was also there to drive both of them. My opinion is a little different. Although I have to agree with you on the styling. I didnt like that plastic platinum trim around the gearshift lever. I disagree with you in regards to driving. I dont think the lexus stacks up very well vs the M3. The lack of exit power is very apparent. Especially when we were coming off the str8 into the hard sweeping left. After you exit and get back on the throttle, the Lexus has a lag until the engine spools up in the rpm. Only then does it come alive, but that is after you are starting to make the next sweeping right. The M3 on the other hand was instantaneous. This was with only driving in 2nd gear and not being able to downshift. I didnt like the body roll. I would have expected Lexus to firm that up. Especially, since they have had so much time to build a car in this class. Just my opinion.

Ironman273 - 4/11/2008 2:35:35 PM

+3 Boost

I tot5ally agree with you. That's where the M3 shines. It's got a flat torque curve (line?) all the way up to redline where the Lexus is peaky. My point was more that it's really noticable when you drive them back to back, which is why the M3 is winning all the comparisons (rightfully so). However, someone that buys the Lexus because they like it (for whatever reasons they have) get a very capable sports sedan that they will have much fun driving.

MPowerDK - 4/11/2008 1:57:16 PM

+4 Boost

Lexus has done a great job, but of course its hard to make a winner at first try. Next generation will be better and so i hope the M3 so the battle can go on.

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lexusis350 - 4/11/2008 2:42:06 PM

0 Boost

I can tell you now, before I even read this article, that the M3 wins the competition because the IS-F "doesn't have what it takes...", "is nice but not nice enough...", or "Lexus just doesn't have enough experience to comepete with BMW".

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lexusis350 - 4/11/2008 2:49:45 PM

+2 Boost

Oh, sorry, I was wrong. Instead it was "Maybe BMW hasn’t gotten this generation of iDrive right, but the rest of the car has no equal among many peers."

But actually, I thought this review was good. It didn't seem as biased as most other reviews.

JRobUSC - 4/11/2008 3:54:02 PM

+3 Boost

just once I'd like someone to explain to me why it's "bias" when a BMW (or other German car) wins and it's "correct" when a Lexus (or non-German car) does? Why can't the winner just have been deemed the better car given the parameters and requirements of that particular comparison?

Sorry if it just so happens that Lexus's don't tend to win those comparisons. Maybe you should stop looking in enthusiast magazines and websites. Try comparisons done by sources that are less performance oriented, like Consumer Reports.

lexusis350 - 4/11/2008 4:35:36 PM

+2 Boost

It's not biased if BMW wins, it's biased when they fail to give credit where credit is due and they overexaggerate their choice. That's why I said this review isn't biased; because they mentioned that the IS F is a good car instead of bashing it to death.

lexusis350 - 4/11/2008 4:35:37 PM

0 Boost

lexusis350 - 4/11/2008 4:37:26 PM

0 Boost

If you need an example of a biased opinion, look at the first comment made.

JRobUSC - 4/11/2008 8:07:25 PM

+2 Boost

yeah, I agree there are plenty of "brand X is awesome and brand Y sucks ass" on this site, and that is bias. But nowhere in the article did they say the IS-F wasn't good, they just said the M3 was better. I don't think that's bias, especially when every comparison test has basically said the same thing. The M3 is just a great car. And considering Lexus has the bazillions of marketing dollars of Toyota behind them, I don't think everyone is saying the M3 is awesome (and a better sports sedan than the IS-F)just because BMW is paying them off.

1995e34 - 4/11/2008 3:10:57 PM

+3 Boost

lexus just needs to be taken out behind a shed and have Travis put a bullet in them like Old Yeller.

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EL34 - 4/11/2008 4:37:43 PM

+1 Boost

This is true :-(

huu76 - 4/11/2008 3:39:09 PM

-6 Boost

This is the first comparison that I will say is 99% non-bias. Prime example.
"we rated this automatic on par with the M3’s manual unit, which is the first time we can remember heaping such praise on a slushbox."

The M3 won fair this time. It legitimately won in most of the areas that matter. Lat, 0-60, braking.
1/4mile was a tie, IS was .1 sec slower but w/ a higher speed.
Chassis are both equal.
Lexus wins in refinement and driver layout. (It’s quieter at 70 mph, the relationship between the driver’s seat and the controls is about perfect)

I do have a few issues with their opinions.
They wonder where the extra grunt is from the IS-F's bigger engine. Well, the IS-F wins the 60-100mph run, so that's where the extra grunt is.

They feel IS-F has too many electronics, but the same ones on the M3 are welcome.

All in all, a fair comparison. My count us for the M3, W1-L0-T3

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theoptimisticpessimist - 4/11/2008 4:14:13 PM

+3 Boost

What the hell review did you read?
Car and Driver test results are;

BMW M3 Sedan Lexus IS-F
0-60 4.1 4.4
1/4 ml 12.6@113 12.8@114

Road Holding .95g .92

Braking 70-0 161ft 166ft

Refinement? didn't look at the test results,did we

Diver Comfort 9 9
Ergonomics 8 10
Features 10 8
Fit & Finish 10 9
Int. styling 9 8
Ext. styling 10 8

Total points 233 219

Once again you fictionalize results, Ties 3? show me one test out there that has a tie!

4-0

BMW4me4ever - 4/11/2008 4:59:50 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Huu ... I just drove the IS-F in comparison to the M3 on a test track on Wednesday April 9, 2008. The cars are not even close. The IS-F - as stated earlier - has a nice sound to it, but that is about it. The engine isnt as responsive when driving hard and especially when exiting sweeping turns. The M3 on the other hand with the balance and torque exits turns with ease allowing the driver to actually accelerate out of a turn. In regards to braking, I agree and that when pushed the IS-F is soft and not quite as responsive. Plus the body likes to front load alot when entering a turn and the back then lifts to lightly when turning thru the apex. It makes it a little unsettling when trying to drive it hard. The M3 squats thru turns which really helps maintain speed and control. Much more confidence. Most of the articles out there have felt similar when comparing. That is why on a track the IS-f has been so consistently slower. This is without the new and quicker M DCT that is due to arrive.

BMW4me4ever - 4/11/2008 5:00:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

also .... huu let me know when you actually drive both cars. until then all you can do is speculate and interpret.

stash84 - 4/12/2008 1:07:38 AM

-1 Boost

interior styling 9 to 8 ?? now i know this is bs...and features 10 to 8...lol...sure

sholemon - 4/11/2008 5:01:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+9 Boost

I dont think I take sides in the Lexus/BMW feud that so commonly surfaces on these pages, that being said I do get tired of BMW fans often exaggerating the greatness of their cars. That little point being said, there is no doubt in my mind that I would take the M3 over the ISF. The M3 has just been the benchmark in this area for way too long to hand over the top spot to a new contender. I think the lexus will probably be a stronger contender though in a few years once they get a chance to improve on their current effort.

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sholemon - 4/11/2008 5:03:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

PS no doubt my little comment about over zealous BMW fans will garner me some negative boosts. Look for it.

lexusrox123 - 4/11/2008 7:15:39 PM

+2 Boost

not for now...fortunately.

Dr550 - 4/11/2008 5:39:40 PM

+2 Boost

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