Audi A6 4.2 vs Lexus GS450h vs Mercedes-Benz E420 CDI

Can't wait for the comments...my two cents..I am quite surprised the Lexus Hybrid did'nt do better (at least better than a gas engine) from everything I have read its been touted as quite efficient. I also didnt know that the trunk space in the Lexus was that small. Is it because of the hybrid equipment?

— markusck (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 1:52:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Will, the people who will most likely buy this car want a "luxury car that gets good gas mileage", not speed, especially since the GS isn't the sportiest car out there. The lack of a proper trunk is an issue. Hybrid or not, people want a proper trunk for their shopping or whatever.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 2:42:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Will, IT IS AN ISSUE.

Imagine if a potential Lexus GS450h buyer says: "Well, I might as well go for the E320 CDI Bluetec. At least I get a trunk with that car and good gas mileage when I go on vacation with that car and my family...".

The GS demonstrated good gas mileage in this comparison, but the fact that it has a small trunk when compared to the competition doesn't sit to well. Might as well go for a GS300.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 3:18:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

"But why would anyone buy a "performance hybrid" if it isn't economic, underperforms and lacks bootspace?! Please... A small price to pay, for what? A bad car?!?"

LOL so true! You're making Will go crazy!

Will, the GS450h isn't going to be a big seller. The GS350 just makes too much sense.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 10:59:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

It is an issue. You can defend the small trunk of the 450h all you want, it is an issue to most buyers.

In a car of this class, SPACE is important.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 3:48:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I am not tearing down Lexus, I am tearing down your logic. Stop being biased and open your eyes. The Lexus GS isn't perfect and this small trunk of the hybrid GS is one aspect of that.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 4:22:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"Fuel economy, price, comfort/luxury, and quality are important as well. Guess which one of the three excels the most in all of these aspects?"

Hmm...

Fuel economy: E420

Price: A6

Luxury: Debatable (all have nice interiors)

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 11:01:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Oh and...

Quality: definitely A6

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 11:02:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

This GS450h really doesn't seem to be doing the wonders one would think a performance hybrid should...In fact the whole GS line-up has received terrible reveiws when pitted against it's competitors.

If I was a hard-core Lexus fan I would be fighting for something to boast about, and then I would come to the realization that...Hey my favoured car company makes all of 1 vehicle at the top of it's class, and it's the soccer mom class leading RX!

What's that say about Lexus "Will"? That they're exciting & fun-filled car's? Or mabye their a little more on the conservative soft side of the spectrum.

Either way you have all of three car's from Lexus to choose from that wouldn't be considered a 'chick car'!

— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 4:15:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I bet from those three vehicles the GS450h had the lowest emissions!!!

— 2JZSoarer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 7:21:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Captain Obvious reincarnates himself (2JZSoarer).

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 11:04:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

But if the "fuel economic performance" is no better than a gas rival (audi) or a diesel whats the point? Trunk space is a factor especially in this class of car and it turns out that its about the size of a VW Polo! (thats smaller than a Golf/Rabbit). So really, whats the point of a "performance Hybrid"? if the performance is no better than its rivals and the hybrid part is no better than conventional technology? The ONLY logic i see is that of marketing hype, and Lexus has played this very well with current gas price fluctuations.

— markusck (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 4:36:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

But as a hybrid I would have expected it to outperform its conventional rivals, it did not and as a "Performance" Hybrid it should have outperformed a diesel any day of the week and not by a few seconds..A DIESEL! It is not a slam dunk, and as the test showed the numbers are all very close, some do better in certain areas. The subjective winners are the conventional technologies..SO, what is the point? Again, I say its the hype surrounding the current popularity of "hybrid" and thats where it ends, except of course for the small trunk.

— markusck (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 5:03:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

extremely minute!
too true.

the thing is will, what if you want to go on holiday, or even go to the airport? you will not be able to fit your luggage in that boot. the boot size would be a major consideration for many people, and you simply would not be able to overlook it. the e 420 cdi (we don't get it in the UK!) would be a much better bet.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:08:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

"An extremely minute issue considering the fact that you're buying a HYBRID vehicle."

I still don't see what you're trying to say here. People buying hybrids don't care about trunks? What's the Highlander and RX hybrid for, then?

If you're buying a SEDAN, you care about trunk space. If you're buying a sports car or convertible, though, you don't really.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 11:07:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

"Will" your a Lexus fan...enough said.

— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 5:33:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

A german site putting the Germans first, surprise surprise.

To be fair, the A6 shouldn't have been included. It stood no chance if you're focusing on mileage.

Anyway, the GS keeps up with the diesel on the highway but owns it in the city. It keeps up with the Benz's 0-60 in this test (normally the GS would win as it clocks mid 5s in other mags). It loses in mileage when going prolonged 81mph (no surprise there).

I don't smell bias whatsoever. The GS is probably the lowest priced of the 3 if you give them the same options.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:05:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Trunk or no trunk.

In 2008 it won't matter, the next batteries are 1/5th the size of the current ones. MB has about 18 months to fleece as many ppl as possible if they're concerned about trunk space, which is still adequate even if it isn't cavernous.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:09:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

Final note. It just goes to show that the Japanese can hand you your ass on a platter, but if you're intent on claiming Germans are better, it doesn't matter what the facts say. They probably went down the list and found the first category the GS didn't win, then called the competition over.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:16:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Lexus should have won the competition hands-down given the hybrid advantage. That it didn't shows: the hybrid is not an advantage. And with the price differential over a regular gas car, it's more than a loser. It's a bust.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:29:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

This was on autospies a month or so back.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11740/2007-lexus-gs450h.html

0-60 in 5.5sec is more than enough time to make a sandwich while its beating the E320 diesel.

Funny how on this article, they don't point out the fact the GS is going up against 8-cylinder cars with around a litre mor displacement (oh well, different topic).

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:42:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

That brings up an intersting point of "PERFORMANCE HYBRIDS", which of course ppl will ignore.

Against the V-8s, the GS pretty well matches them in speed (except the 5.5litre MB) but gives you V6 fuel economy (or in the case of vs E320, diesel economy).

Against a diesel, it gives you V8 speed while matching/beating a diesel in fuel economy.

Interesting indeed. Now only if they'd remove the "Is it German?" category.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 6:45:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Since this review was to gauge the efficiency of the engines, what does your "perceived" interior quality have to do with getting better fuel economy/performance? Again, the A6 should've been excluded because it didn't stand a chance, which is unfair.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 8:54:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

"Again, the A6 should've been excluded because it didn't stand a chance, which is unfair."

Even though it still beat the GS? Hmm...

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 11:13:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Well the Lexus will always lose when comparing to the German brand,because it does not have the so called "Magic feel",by the way what the hell is the "Magic feel"????

— 2JZSoarer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 7:27:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Its not that it was a German, the firm is heavily invested in Diesel technology, have a very lucrative contract with Mercedes and a somewhat lucrative one with Audi, they also are anti-Japanese because of the war, oh and the actual editor of the report was in an accident...and you guessed it, a Lexus hit him from behind...its all a conspiracy...how desparate.

— markusck (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 7:53:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

The objective of this comparison was to see which engine would be "most fuel efficient".

biased POS motherpuckers cameout with an excuse about trunkspaces and other irrelvant issues to have a Lexus place on the 3rd place.

On the Audi:
2nd Place: Audi A6 4.2 V8 Quattro (492/600)
"The only downside is the high fuel consumption".

<----The objective of this comparison was to see which engine would be "most fuel efficient". So if they claimed that the only downside is the high fuel consumpution, how is this German POS rated above a Lexus for godsakes? Lexus crushes its competitors in the Fuel Efficiency Compartment, especially in the city. The first place should have gone easily to the Lexus.

and

If this article has truely stuck with its "who is the most efficient engine?" article...It should have been like reading an obituaries for Audi and Mercedes.

just full of crock

— Homer008 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 9:20:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Lexus was most fuel efficent and fastest. Go eyeball the article first next time.

— Homer008 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2006 11:45:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Can any of you people even read german?

The fuel efficiency test is just an addition to the overall test of the cars.
This article is from Auto Motor und Sport and they work with a point system to judge the cars.

You can see a big list with all those numbers and catagorys on wwhere the cars are judged.

The first catogory is Carrroserie with things like boot space, interior, space, functionality and quality: Mercedes scores 73, Audi 70 and Lexus 73 points.
Next catogory:Interior usability, Mercedes 44, Audi 42, Lexus 39
Next: Driving comfort: Merc 86, Audi 76, Lexus 66
Next: Engine: Merc 84, Audi 74, Lexus 76
Next: Driving dynamics: Merc 79, Audi 85, Lexus 76
Next: Brakes: Merc 42, Audi 43, Lexus 35
Next: Enviroment: Merc 22, Audi 19, Lexus 27
Next: Costs: Merc 77, Audi 84, Lexus 75

Coming to a total points of:
Merc: 507
Audi: 492
Lexus:467

You see, they judge the whole cars, not just the fuel economy. The Fuel economy bit is just an addition to see whats what.

— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 3:11:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

It basicly comes down to:

If you get a comferteble sporty cruiser with good milage , get the Merc

If you want a pretty comfortible car which is fun to drive, has great performance and is the cheapest but has bad milage, get the Audi.

And if you want superb milage and up to par quality, but has a really unforgiving ride, is uncomfertable ,isn't much fun to drive, not very good in the corners and is expensive, Get the Lexus.

Now all stop being childish please.

— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 3:27:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Well said, MDalle. That's the impression I got from reading the posts on that German car site.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 8:34:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Hah, look what happens when Lexus gets all the attention it thinks it "deserves." It comes in last.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 11:10:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

If you type

your comments

like this

you take up

more room

to say the same

nothing you always

say.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 12:49:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Well said. There aren't enough idiots even in America to support such a waste of 4 tires.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 2:41:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

MB, rules here and the lexus is an interesting take. why buy the regular audi?/ low grade vw engineering etc. Get the 550i and rock em all..

— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 8:21:43 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Some of you guys are way too sensitive on both sides of the lane. This test was originally set out to quote: "The objective of this comparison was to see which engine would be most fuel efficient: a gasoline V8, a diesel V8, or a gasoline V6 coupled to an electric motor that produces the power of a V8."

Yet as expected, the article turned into a all-out brawl of which one they personally thought was better. Guess which cars from which country won? There is really no surprise here in the results, regardless of the actual data.

In a straight comparison, this article does absolutely nothing to to prove which out of diesel or hybrid is better or worse, even considering that as expected, the GS got best fuel economy in the city, and yet the E-Class got best fuel economy in fast and unrealistic Autobahn speeding. In simple highway cruising, what's amazing is that the difference in mpgs between the E-Class and GS is 0.3!

— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 10:36:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

If you can't win, cry foul. I guess that's the newest tact for Lexus drivers, since the myth is being exposed that their "brand" is nothing but a marketing machine.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 11:06:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Ill buy a GS then i ll put my stuff on any1 that is in the car with me. wow gd plan :p

— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 11:17:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

When a BMW comes in 2nd in any comparo, it's a shock to most of us, and happens only when a rival car does absolutely everything right.

When you see a Lexus come in 3rd, or 4th, or 5th, or 6th out of 6, you expect it.

Lexus can't say, we're the obvious choice for people who want quality, and then repeatedly tank their auditions with superior vehicles. That's the Lexus myth exposed. Lexus is for people who hate driving.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 11:19:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

"Lexus is for people who enjoy the finer luxuries of driving. Admit it, your BMW and Audi cannot match a Lexus in terms of refinement."

Yes, my Audi does, in fact. "Refinement" is a vague word. My Audi maintains its smooth ride (S4), but it handles with aplomb, has fantastic straight-line speed, torque whenever I want it, and the most well-appointed interior that I've ever owned. Although the white seats are hard to keep clean, the interior, like all of my other Audis, is timeless and holds up beautifully.

Lexus interiors seem to have a more "trendy" flair about them. They look great now, but they won't in ten years. And, to say it simply, the plastics in a bare-bones A4 FWD 2.0T manual (with cloth seats) are better than the plastics in my wife's Lexus. She liked it when we first bought it, but has gotten to hate it because of its consistent boring-ness, and says that "I've never been so excited for a new car before", talking about the Jaguar XJ8 she wants in January.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 11:52:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Here's the video on YouTube. In German though. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2nCjNrIZzc

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 12:19:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Why would a Lexus driver (i.e., robot-person) understand the human emotion of driving?

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 12:37:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"And as the Germans are at making a car worth keeping past its warranty period."

I could counter that all day. Not one problem with any European car I've ever owned.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 11:55:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Driving is an emotion. Look it up robot-boy.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 2:37:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Toyota has hacked Autospies and is generating these Lexus fan messages from a computer database. The same bland ideas, the rote responses. We have been barraged by a machine spouting Lexus advertising propaganda.

Are they going to suspend these "Lexus" accounts?

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 2:49:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

^ Toyota technician in charge of the above account...

"This is so typical" is a very clever line to use, since you are obviously cribbing from another famous robot-- C-3PO in The Empire Strikes Back, who says that line to camera when he is locked out of a doorway at the Hoth base.

We admire your handiwork. The comments are sounding more life-like every day.

— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 4:37:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Mdalle is just upset I keep on proving him wrong time and time again. Yes Mdalle, the 30 million people who live around Tokyo/Yokohama, the 7 million ppl who live in New York and the 6 million people who live in LA all drive in the country.

Smith,
Yes, the batteries are actually 1/10 the size, but have 5x the output, so you need 2 of them.

Funny how all of a sudden, driving in urban centres isn't important anymore because Lexus mops the floor with the competition.

I believe stiff suspension and no bodyroll is the hallmark of sports sedans. Did we suddenly change that definition because Lexus, again, shows everyone how it's done? Reminds me of Consumer Reports faulting the last IS for being more sporty than the 3.

Lexus wins in all the measured categories. The Germans win in the "subjective" ones. Give the German a B-class and an LS and he'll say the B-class is the most luxurious car he's ever been in, with the best handling ever.

Anyway Mdalle,
Shall we dance?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 7:12:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

While I warm up, here's a refresher just incase you suffer from alzheimers or are schitzo.

http://www.a123systems.com/html/news/articles/060206_pr.html

http://www.hybridcars.com/technology-stories/lithium-ion-batteries.html

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/05/technology_revi.html

Let me save you some time. You'll say you've never heard of these sights and they don't matter because facts shouldn't get in the way of proclaiming Germany forever.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 7:23:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Last comment before I let you have a say.
Notice the part in my links where Toyota just invested $740 million to develop newer/better batteries while there are atleast 10 other independent companies doing the same. And then there's BMW sweating over $33 million it didn't make this year.

Anyway, let's go.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 7:26:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Just wanted to point out some hypocrisy and errors from the Fatherland.

Heybub,
I thought Germans prided on paying the most for the least? Now you complain that the GS is the most expensive. Maybe the article should've stated that the GS is about the same price loaded as a barebones E320CDI.

Before ppl were complaining the battery packs were too heavy, weighing around 400lbs (I've admitted this error). Now that we find out they actually only weight about 150lbs, weight savings with new batteries doesn't matter (although 10lbs off from carbon-fibre hood is a miracle). Next thing you know, they'll say the batteries aren't big and heavy enough, so in-turn can't produce enough power. hah!

MDalle,
The BlueTec will runaway with emissions. Really? They're going to need a few more filters. The BlueTec (straight from MB) uses 15ppm in emissions. Premium unleaded does 10ppm (reg is 20ppm).
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Oct06/09_E_320_BLUETEC_Begins_Mercedes_Diesel_Campaign_In_The_USA.html
Guess what the GS uses, and not even 100% of the time. It's rated SULEV, the BlueTec is still only 45 states (the year's not over yet). Standards are only going to get tougher.

Check out the pro-con box at the bottom. Makes some goood points about why diesel works in Europe, how only towing benefits form diesel, and emissions standards will drive diesels out of N.America.
http://www.hybridcars.com/diesel.html

Unless the owner puts low-sulphur in it, Bluetec is useless.
http://www.mbusa.com/models/features/specs/overview.do?modelCode=E320CDI&class=07_E
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11827/2007-mercedes-benz-e320-bluetec.html (last paragraph).

I really don't expect you to read any of these links though, the truth has never been anything you've been interested in. Cha cha cha.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 9:10:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Audiot,
No, BMW is a marketing machine. How else do you explain a company that claims their drivers are enthusiasts, yet most of their cars are automatics (the antithesis of feeling the road and being one with the car, and magic feel of course).

They claim they're the "Ultimate Driving Machine" but only their very top tier cars are unchallenged because the competition hasn't fielded a challenger...yet :)

MB/BMW market themselves as luxury cars over here, but back home, their cars are no better than your ordinary commuter car.

Then you have them claiming diesels are cleaner and more efficient when the facts prove otherwise, as do countless "real-world" tests.

Now that's marketing.

Toyota/Lexus is a results driven company, the Germans are hype and money driven ones.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 10:18:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

To put things into perspective.
Audi/MB have 15.9 cu/ft of trunk.
GS has 7.5 or 360 litres. (yes, it is smaller).
An A4 has 380 litres (1 small gerry can of gas more). I don't hear A4 buyers cursing Audi for not giving them a gigantic trunk.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2006 10:27:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Mdalle,
Put up or shut up.
http://www.audicanada.ca/audi/ca/en2/new_cars/Audi_A4/A4.html
Click on the A4, then click on technical data and go to "luggage compartment". 380 litres, no conversion necessary.

The GS and A4 may not be competitors, but wasn't my point. Both cars seat 5 passengers and have roughly the same trunk space, yet you make it the be all and end all of this competition.

Will,
MDalle doesn't provide sources or proof, he just pulls things out of you know where.

Typical though, if the Germans don't win, it doesn't matter, even if its in what they claim to be best at.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/7/2006 7:03:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

LOL, that's all you have? So now it's about me making a comparison about the A4 and GS, not about the GS embarassing the prides of Germany.

Sure, if that makes you feel better.

If you don't know where Audi got 380 litres, then Audi Canadan. Makes you wonder why they don't even know their own specs. Check the Canadian website if you dare, or are capable (I even left you instructions already). :D

I know, maybe Audi thought not giving you a spare tire added to the driving pleasure!

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/8/2006 6:54:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

It's best people like MDalle stay in Europe, away from competition, they might get hurt.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/8/2006 6:55:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Realistically, this competition, no matter what it's judging, should only have 1 category: Country of origin.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/8/2006 6:58:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1