Audi Throws Challenge to Lexus

kart1 submitted on 01/24/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:31 AM
from: www.thecarconnection.com

[80] user comments | category: Misc News

Tags: Audi v Lexus

Audi v Lexus

"Audi Exec: Lexus 'Doesn’t Resonate'

Understatement is out at Audi of America.

Audi has been growing in other parts of the world, notably on its home turf inGermany and in China, where its cars are popular with top officials in both politics and business.

"Understatement is inherent in Audi's brand DNA," noted Johan de Nysschen, president of Audi of America in an appearance at the Automotive News World Congress. "Yet we think it's time for Audi of America to stop being so understated and be a little more bold and little more American in telling our story here," added de Nysschen, who indicated Audi also was preparing to target Lexus in its quest for more sales.

"You have to be bold to be noticed in America - certainly, bolder and more aggressive than we have been in telling our brand story," he added.

"We've faced hurdles in this country gaining recognition for truly excellent products in our portfolio. We intend to remedy that this year through creative advertising and marketing. Our mission and aspiration in the U.S. is quite simply to be recognized as a 'Tier One' premium brand in the same light as Mercedes-Benz and BMW, as we already are in Europe and elsewhere around the world," de Nysschen said.

The German automaker also has challenged its digital ad agency, Factory Design Labs, to capitalize on the Internet's freewheeling landscape to explore new avenues to educate, inform and link to customers. "Eight-eight percent of Audi's buyers spend time on the Internet before purchasing a new car, the highest of any (manufacturer) in the industry," he said.

"Audi internationally has set new sales records and new profitability records every single year since 1992. We're earning our market share, not buying it, which is a philosophy we're holding to in the U.S.," he added. "This presents some challenges because this is the toughest market in the world and the most competitive. Incentives are always in play here - even if you don't see them and every manufacturer is forced to play the incentive game here," de Nysschen said. "The euro-dollar exchange rate situation doesn't make matter any easier," he said.

Audi's effort in the U.S. requires a broad product plan, smart bold communications, and dealership growth, de Nysschen said.

"Just ten years ago, our lineup was four models and four derivatives, this year with all introductions, Audi will have ten models and over 20 derivatives," he said. "This year is really the year of emotion for with the new Audi TT coming this spring and our fabulous new Audi R8 sports car this summer," which was designed to compete with the Porsche 911, he said.

"We'll keep new product coming," de Nysschen said. "We're introducing our third sports car, the A5 Coupe, later this year. It will be an all-new vehicle that slots in between the A4 and A6," added de Nysschen, who added Audi also is considering offering a smaller SUV.
"Audi is building a family garage. We don't want to be known as a brand of one-off vehicles but considered because we offer a portfolio of premium vehicles, which compete in segments that matter to American consumers," he said.

In addition, de Nysschen said Audi will continue to invest in the development of passive and active safety technology and will keep addressing the reliability problems that had dogged Audi in the 1990s. "The vehicles we're building today are as good as those produced by anybody," he said.

In addition, de Nysschen also said Audi's long-term objective of reaching 1.4 million global sales by 2015 will require growth in North America.

Lexus is currently the leader in luxury sales in North America. However, Audi already outsells Lexus in other parts of the world by a significant margin. Worldwide last year, Audi outsold its Japanese rival 905,100 to 460,000 units. Audi sold 260,000 cars in Germany, while Lexus sold 25,000 vehicles in all of Europe.

"Lexus is really only a U.S. brand and one predominantly focused on SUVs at that. It doesn't resonate anywhere else in the world, even in its home market, where consumer response to the market has been lukewarm," said de Nysschen, as he laid down a challenge that is certain to be debated for months to come."
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kart1 - 1/24/2007 2:31:56 AM

-3 Boost

We shouldn't turn this into another flame war.

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AUTO_UNION - 1/24/2007 8:54:27 AM

+1 Boost

I hope too, but probably some idiots will appear and bash audi as usual.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/24/2007 4:20:16 PM

0 Boost

It's true--Lexus does not resonate anywhere but in the US, where buyers are often uneducated about their purchases.

This is ironic because I wrote Audi sometime back and suggested they focus more on Lexus--both companies aim to provide high quality, luxurious autos with a secondary focus on sport (although Audi actually delivers here, whereas Lexus uses marketing, not actual substance, to achieve this).

Additionally, Lexus is a good company to target because interestingly enough, Audi does have a stronger image than Lexus in some parts of the US. It can even vary based upon cities--Lexus is seen as a more status worthly brand in Dallas, but in San Antonio, Audi is viewed to be more prestigious.

I think Lexus success has been based on questionable factors, and Audi has what it takes to take them on in a big way. Watch out!

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IamEvilHomer - 1/26/2007 12:18:38 PM

+1 Boost

i think he was saying that he is going to focus on the USA more

hell he is the Pres of Audi USA

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FerrarisR4me - 1/24/2007 10:14:58 AM

-5 Boost

Speaking of idiots starting flame wars...

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vdiv - 1/24/2007 10:53:51 AM

+1 Boost

To me Lexus and Audi are like apples and oranges -- they don't compare. They have a completely different philosophy about performance, handling, reputation, and appeal. I think Audi should concentrate on competing with BMW and maybe MB, as they can get a larger pool of customers switching from those brands.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/24/2007 4:27:01 PM

0 Boost

Audi really has very little in common with MB and BMW, even though they are all German. Both have failed at creating high quality interiors and lost focus on what a true luxury car is, while Audi has stayed focused and continued to make true luxury vehicles.

Additionally, most BMW owners believe their cars to be the best performance machines on the road and believe Audi incapable of competing at the same level--this despite numerous Le Mans wins, the RS4, diesel development, and rallying.

MB is just a complete disaster--quality has slipped, resale has slipped, and in the US, Lexus has become the new Mercedes.

Audi's targets are now BMW and Lexus, to which it fits right in between.

S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 6:01:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

AUDIMAN4, you're going insane.

Mercedes doesn't have "luxury"? I love Audi, but the interiors of the S-Class, CL-Class, E-Class and CLS-Class are drop-dead beautiful. The A6's has a slight edge over the E and I'd tie the A8 with the S.

I will say, however, that BMW doesn't have nearly as much luxury in its cars. That's not what they're about. BMW has about a 60/40 split between sport/luxury in its cars, with Audi at about 50/50 (some would argue 45/55), Mercedes at 40/60 and Lexus at 15/85. IMO.

S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 11:13:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

The IS350, while fast/stylish, has sub-par handling. An A4 2.0T is more fun to drive, let alone the 3 Series.

LS460? WHAT? It may have a big engine, but it's still purely a luxo-barge. Haven't you read the reviews? I read about the S-Class's "spooky competence" in that it's such a large car, but has amazing handling and nimble-ness for its size. I have not read the same about the LS.

IS-F also might prove my point even more. If at first you don't succeed, try again.

Bill - 1/25/2007 9:46:57 AM

+2 Boost

The S550 handles like a car that is much smaller in size. Quite amazing for such a large and heavy car. And the engine is powerful, refined and moves this beauty around effortlessly. I should know.

AUDIMAN4: Very "intelligent" post...

answer - 1/24/2007 11:16:29 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

So Lexus is dismissed as only being successful in the U.S., but Audi is admiting to not being too successful in the U.S. Pretty crappy logic coming from the president of Audi of America.

Please Audi, get the R8 to the U.S. in decent numbers, and axe this Nysschen guy.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/24/2007 4:28:15 PM

0 Boost

Lexus hasn't dealt with the numerous issues that Lexus has had to contend with in the US market. Additionally, Audi wasn't marketed to consumers the way Lexus was.

Simply two different approaches--now Audi will take a more aggressive approach to attracting customers.

IamEvilHomer - 1/26/2007 12:21:00 PM

+1 Boost

he is the new guy for AOA
and he is shocked how the USA preception is
He came from Audi Japan where he turned Audi into a top nameplate

Neverfollow - 1/24/2007 11:47:29 AM

+4 Boost

Lexus builds a fine car for how many Americans tend to drive. Lexus is not successful in Europe because Europeans already have plenty of vehicles for sale that suit their driving styles and conditions. To buy a Lexus that's only good for 85mph on a strait and level highway does not suit most Europeans thus the dismal sales results.

Most European (German) cars are overbuilt for how Americans will most likely drive them on a daily basis. However, some Americans that always strive to own the best of anything and everything, are still drawn to European cars and will pay whatever it takes to own the very best even though they will only ever use about 30% of the vehicles performance capability.

Therefore, it is extremely important to Audi of America to be recognized for what it is; a competitor on the same level as BMW and Mercedes. Furthermore, to educate a Lexus buyer as to why an Audi is worth the extra money is a sound business strategy for this market.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/24/2007 4:23:31 PM

+3 Boost

In some markets where Lexus vehicles are in very high demand (Dallas), Lexus dealerships are not willing to deal at all, and often times the lease rates end up being higher than a German competitor.

This is nothing but arrogance, and although Lexus may be #1 now in the US, doesn't mean that they will always be #1.

In fact, I know a number of people that have traded their Lexus in for Audi's or another German make due to expensive operating costs (service is also expensive). If Lexus are allegedly so reliable (they're not--a colleague's ES350 has transmission issues), they'd shouldn't be so expensive to maintain.

Neverfollow - 1/24/2007 11:49:05 AM

+4 Boost

Oh, I forgot to mention......Flame on!

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Dave - 1/24/2007 11:56:32 AM

+1 Boost

To be fair, let's look at the situation from both Audi and Lexus points of view.

Audi's executive is obviously not happy that though it outsells Lexus worldwide, it lags behind in the United States. To say Lexus is really only 'a US brand' is kind of trying to make excuses, considering the US is the #1 market for cars in world as of now.
There's no question Audi makes very good cars, but Audi has been around much, much longer than Lexus. So in terms of name brand, heritage, Audi should be expected to sell better than Lexus, especially in Europe.

It should also be realized that it's difficult to make one luxury car that will be a best seller in every country. American luxury cars do not sell well in the US and Europe, but is a big hit in China.
Audi is seen everywhere in China, but lags behind in the US. Most people don't realize there are other important factors to which why Audi supposedly does very well in the world's most populated nation(China). Audi came very early into China and set up production plants. Everyone seems to know indirectly that cars built in Germany and Japan almost always have better build quality. The Audi's that are seen everywhere in China are built IN CHINA with lower salaried Chinese(not German) laborers. Those 'Chinese built' Audi's are not at the same level that we see in the US. There is no high import tax on these Audi's, so Audi can sell these cars 'cheaper' therefore on a mass scale. In terms of numbers, I don't feel China's Audi numbers should be part of the lump sum figure. It is deceiving in a way. If you take China out of Audi's lineup, then the numbers go down. China is a specialized market for Audi in itself. And finally, the Chinese market is a huge growing market. The Japanese do not generally do well in China because of long past atrocious events that have happened in World War II. Believe it or not, that plays a BIG factor in their sales. Chinese people attest to this.
Lexus has not been around for that long relative to the European luxury brands. And for most of that time, it has built cars that though are high quality, have lacked emotion and performance. As a result, you see many people in the US that buy Lexus who probably would have gone with a Buick or Lincoln before. But things are DEFINITELY changing for Lexus. It has done an extreme makeover of it's existing product lineup. It's made a very strong effort to bring the Lexus name to it's home town of Japan. Lexus has made styling a priority, and has added levels of performance to match it's European competitors. Despite all these drastic changes, it will still need time before major results are seen. It's all about perception. It will take time for people to change their perception of Lexus.
So while Audi's boss claims they are in the process of big change, Lexus isn't standing still either.

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mitchatlexusofmarin - 1/25/2007 12:13:23 AM

-1 Boost

Excellent assesment.

anS4inOC - 1/24/2007 12:30:02 PM

+1 Boost

de Nysschen taking some shots against Lexus/Toyota, I like it. Maybe this is part of Audi being more bold in their US advertising and evangelizing.

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kart1 - 1/24/2007 12:45:36 PM

-1 Boost

The biggest thing here is the AOA President's comments. He is targeting Lexus for no reason, why should he do that??? They are both in the luxury market, but they are different. It would have been better if he would have said something about BMW or MB because they fall in line with Audi. This is because they are all German and look to sell the same thing (high technology and sportiness). Lexus on the other hand looks to sell refinement (and now a little sportiness but that has just begun). AOA President targeted Lexus because of two reasons the first is that Lexus is number 1 in America but Audi isn't, while Lexus is not big outside the USA. So AOA is targeting Lexus because they think it is an easier target than their usual competitor BMW (Because they think they are better because they sell more cars overall so they can justify attacking a lower sales Lexus brand). One more thing and that is the AOA got one thing wrong. Technically Lexus is Japanese and Made in Japan, but its home market is America since it was first launched here. How can Japan be the home sales market if they just launched it there in 2005, 16 years after the brand was established.

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Neverfollow - 1/24/2007 1:06:10 PM

+1 Boost

Because, as has been pointed out many times before on this and just about any other website you care to mention...................it's nothing but a rebadged TOYOTA!

Flame on!

Heyhuub - 1/24/2007 4:02:01 PM

+3 Boost

@Bulldogz

Looking similar (too you) is something different then actually being similar, you The Phaeton shares absolutely nothing but about 2 engines with the A8.

The A6 and the Passat are two totally different platforms. Mind you that the A6 is a whole lot bigger.

S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 6:11:25 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Lexi are not re-badged Toyotas, and Audis are not re-badged Volkswagens. There!

AlexTx - 1/24/2007 3:25:18 PM

+5 Boost

bulldogz, you'd be surprised to see how little in common (except the A3 and the TT) Audis and VW are.
VW is going to a transverse mounted engine layout Vs longitudinal on the Audis. (TT and A3 are transverse). Right there they use different suspension.
The Q7 shares less than 15% of parts with the Touareg.
The Pheaton has more in common with the Bentley than it does with the A8; for starters the A8 is Aluminum vs steel for the Phaeton.

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iown1 - 1/24/2007 4:47:02 PM

+3 Boost

I think his remarks were way over do. I think he singled out Lexus for two reasons. First, they're the number one selling luxury car in the U.S. (Although bmw is breathing down their neck.) From a marketing stand point it makes no sense to attack any one else. What would one say? We want to beat Mercedes so we can be number 3? Secondly, Audi isn't going to say anything derogatory about BMW and MB. The reason being that MB and Audi are pushing the Bluetec diesel while Lexus is in favor of Hybrid tech. If the Germans can educate the public about the advantages of new diesel tech., they'll be able to win many customers away from Lexus/Toyota. Also, Lexus is way behind in diesel tech. so there would be a considerable gap before they could regain their footing. In any event I think Audi should continue on their current path, allowing the public to become more aware of the company's talents.

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S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 6:13:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

LOL @ "the leader"!

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S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 6:15:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Oh and, may I ask... what shortcomings?

Perhaps their Lexus-surpassing interiors?

Their Mercedes-beating performance?

Their BMW-trouncing style?

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S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 11:18:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

You realize I wasn't talking about Lexus. You mentioned AUDI's shortcomings, and I fired back. Absoultely every single point you just made is objective. What I think about Audi:

Their Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Cadillac, Infiniti, and Acura-surpassing luxury.

Their Lexus, BMW, Jaguar, Cadillac, Infiniti and Acura-surpassing style (tied with Merc).

Who really cares about value when you're buying a luxury car? IMO Audi's products, if you want to play this game, are a better value-for-dollar proposition than Lexus's. The only Lexus model that's less-expensive than its Audi counterpart is the LS, which you can easily option up to stratospheric prices.

Their (my experiences) Acura, Lexus, Jaguar and BMW-surpassing reliability/quality.

Styling is soooo subjective. I already addressed that. The only Lexus model I find as appealing as its Audi competitor would be the IS350 vs. A4 3.2; IS250's wheels ruin the look.

Superior products?

Lexus is just mad because they haven't figured out how to tap into the world market. (The only market, might I remind you)

iown1 - 1/24/2007 6:58:05 PM

+3 Boost

Hey Will. Size matters. Lexus has a long way to go before it can catch Audi. It's kind of funny, you mentioning shortcomings and all.

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S4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 11:19:42 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Buy an Audi for yourself. They're plenty reliable if you treat them right.

You can't say much about what Lexus beats them in before you own both.

I have owned both, my friend, so I am a credible source.

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mitchatlexusofmarin - 1/25/2007 12:09:53 AM

+1 Boost

A few clarifications:
Lexus has started making awd sedans, and will keep adding more.
Lexus cars drive extremely well at speeds well over 100mph and, depending on the tires, much more than that.
Lexus interiors are as nice as Audi interiors.
Lexus only in the past year has decided to become a world brand and when they take something seriously, they succeed at it better than their competition.S4, I worked for Audi from 1998 until 2002 and HAD to leave because the quality problems were so extreme. I came back to Lexus where I had been since 1989 and it was a breath of fresh air with happy (and educated) customers who were so immensely happy about their purchase I feel like I am actually providing the best product and service available in the world, so I too am a credible source.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/25/2007 2:00:58 AM

0 Boost

Mitch:

While I do agree with you that Lexus has historically exhibited phenomenal overall quality, do you not agree that as of late that has been slipping? Particularly with the ES/GS transmission and structural integrity issues (shaking, loose parts)?

I think interiors are subjective, but the plastics, and overall quality in materials in Lexus I'd say are just a slight notch below Audi. International consensus agrees.

Fast forward to reality, and I see a number of Lexus owners who won't be buying another one due to exactly what I've told you about.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 1/25/2007 12:04:08 PM

0 Boost

Audiman
There were minor problems with the 2004-2005 ES transmission, but it was a software problem with too much lag, and sometimes hunting too much for a gear. There is no problem with shaking- loose parts- never heard of it, not once, not ever. I remember however, many a scary moment absolutely flooring an A4 1.8 tip on a testdrive and LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENED> It was as if the engine died! This was a horrifying situation of extreme lag where you had to drop off the pedal and carefully modulate the gas to get the car moving. It happened at least once a week with a customer on a test drive and it was frightening (it also happened on Passat 1.8T)

AUDIMAN4 - 1/25/2007 1:27:09 PM

+1 Boost

No, the transmission problems I'm referring to affect the new ES. Why don't you go over to clublexus.com and check them out for yourself.

You, like many Americans, are so blindsighted by Toyota's alleged quality advantage, you can't see that they actually have problems too.

Early 1.8t models had some issues, but that engine has been discontinued. The 2.0t has had no such problems, and it along with the 1.8t, made Ward's 10 Best several times.
Additionally, a number of newer Lexus have had problems with rattles, loose parts, and shaking.

vbwtoyodasan - 1/25/2007 3:14:06 AM

0 Boost

""one predominantly focused on SUVs ""

He is a liar.
LEXUS LS sales is AUDI A8*4.

LEXUS sales
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/03/032851.html

AUDI sales
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/03/032819.html

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/25/2007 1:31:07 PM

+2 Boost

Are you really this dumb? See, this right here is why internationally people hate Americans--they overall tend to be incredibly blindsighted.

The entire Audi range outsells every Lexus equivalent in every market except the US.

If you look at Lexus sales, they are dominated by SUV's. Lexus sold ~450k cars last year. Of that, 300k were in the US, and of that ~100 were the RX. That means nearly 25% of Lexus sales were US RX SUV's. Not impressive.

Compare this with Audi, who sold ~950k cars, less than 100k were attributed to the US, ~250k to Germany, and that leaves 600k internationally. This with only one SUV, launched very late. See the difference?

Neverfollow - 1/25/2007 10:08:10 AM

+1 Boost

So you think Lexus interiors are that great? Did you know that Audi does not use any chemicals to tan the leathers used in their cars? It's an organic process that leaves you with an interior that smells like new leather for years. Did you know that Audi tans the leather all the way through? If you scratch it with something, it doesn't turn white underneath. Lexus doesn't do either one of these things. In fact, not that long ago the LS model was criticized in the press for having a really bad odor. Lexus' fix? Add more chemicals to cover up the smell.

How do you Lexus guys explain that stupid panel to the left of the steering column that opens to reveal controls for a bunch of stuff including the outside mirrors amoung other things. Have you ever tried to use anything on that panel while driving? There are much better and more ergonomic control placements than that.

Why does the Lexus back up camera not have trajectory/range lines superimposed on the screen. And why don't you get acoustic sensors along with the camera? Why does the screen shut off when you put it in drive? Might it be helpful to realign the vehicle with the image in place for a little while in drive?

Why doesn't your cell phone's book download into the TV screen so you can click to dial from it?

Why are your trunks so small?

If you have a fold down seat, why don't you get the complete opening? There's all of this structural bracing that joins the rear suspension hard points together which recduces the opening size thus making it less useful. Can't you do like Audi and brace the car in other ways so you can have a complete opening?

Why does your CD changer require a cartridge? Why does satellite radio cost so much? ($1600) wow!

How come you have to mount your iPod on one of those ugly aftermarket goose neck things in order to control it?

I could go on and on but lets see what happens with this list first!

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mitchatlexusofmarin - 1/25/2007 11:41:43 AM

+1 Boost

Never Follow,

There is no problem with the leather in Lexus. Many of my friends and customers with Lexus from 1990 and forward, and there is no such issue- some still are as new.There is no such problem with "bad odor" and no such chemical fix you allude to- that is pure nonsense and I would know, being immersed in the product daily.The panel (found in the GS only) is in my opinion an ergonomic blunder which was supposed to unclutter and simplify- it can really bang your knee if you leave it open. People who see it for the first time love it though.No idea why there are not lines in the back up cam- (which Lexus pioneered by the way)and who's doesn't revert back to nav when you are going forward?You can download from your cell phone, and you can dial from it- even while driving. You can even simply speak a number by your voice and it will be accurately dialed. You can even assign 1000 voice tags so you can press the steering wheel button and simply say "call home" or "call neverfollow" and it will seamlessly happen.Our trunks are not small- except for the GS450H to make way for batteries.Lexus does not believe in fold down seats- too many rattles ensue and it compromises structural rigidity. I would personally prefer that they do it anyway.Our CD changers are 6 disc, in dash. Are you looking at a 1994?Sat radio is standard on the LS, and optional on all others for $495.Almost all models have an IPOD plug- where you been? again- 1994?

All the best,

Mitch

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Neverfollow - 1/25/2007 3:33:58 PM

+2 Boost

I visited a local Lexus store recently and Sirius SAT radio was a dealer installed accessory sold by the F&I guy for $1695.

The CD Changer cartridge I believe is still being used in the GX and LX models. (Probably because they are older platforms).

The iPod plugs directly into the amp as you say, but can't be completely controlled from the steering wheel or the dash. You still must control most functions from the unit itself.

I couldn't find the link on the LS odor I was talking about. I can't remember if it was Car and Driver or a newspaper like USA today, but it's out there somewhere.

Audi uses the very same video camera as Lexus. Of course they weren't satisfied with it so they digitally flattened the image making it easier to judge distance, they also superimposed range and trajectory lines on it, and combined the option with accoustic sensors so you would also have an audio reference as well. When you pull forward to realign the car for a parking space, the image stays in the screen for a few minutes so you can line up the trajectory lines with the space, eliminating the need to look over your shoulder for this purpose. Once the vehicle moves forward more then 3mph, the image goes away. Now that's a lot of engineering for just a back-up camera!

Voice recognition systems in the Audi works very much like what you describe in the Lexus.

12.7cu ft in a non Hybrid GS is still pretty small. An A4 has more than that at 13.5 with a fold down rear seat standard. The A6 is 15.9 also with a fold down seat standard and neither one of them rattle.

I also like the fact that if you order an Audi with the rear sunscreen, you get manual ones in the rear doors as well. None of those stick on screens required with small kids in the back.

If you get heated seats, an Audi gives you 6 different settings for both the front and rear, not just 2 or 3 as in most others.

A full size spare is also a nice standard feature on all but A3, TT, and Q7. Run flats are okay for weekend only or pleasure cars, but on a main vehicle, the chance of a tire dealer in even a large city, having one is stock is pretty slim. You may not make it to work by Monday morning. With an Audi, you can bolt on the full size spare and drive 90mph all the way home and order a new replacement at half the price of a runflat, from Discount Tire from your office PC on Monday morning.

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autopro - 1/25/2007 10:42:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

As an audi salesperson,manager,for nine years I've seen the ups and downs for this company. After sales hit around 75,ooo units in the U.S. in 1985, sixty min.killed sales in the U.S. I lived that nightmare.It has been over twenty years and young people don't know about that history. It will be several years before audi can compete with Lexus their not even in the game at this point. The cars are excellent. Their pockets are not nearly as big as toyotas and lexus dealers are much stronger,don't forget about well trained salespeople.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/26/2007 1:29:15 AM

+1 Boost

Sales numbers aren't an accurate representation of product quality or Audi's competence within the market.

Like you stated, the US has been hard for Audi, but at the same time they have not marketed well.

But, Audi's got the right idea now with a bolder approach. Audi's philosophy has always been form over function - technology first, luxury second.

They may be re-evaluating this approach.

huu76 - 1/25/2007 10:45:28 PM

0 Boost

I find it ironic that Audi is following Lexus by attempting to shake its "understated" image.

Hmmm, hints of Lexus getting bolder with the L-finesse design?

imo, Audi needs to get out of the shadow of BMW/MB first before it can take on Lexus. I say that purely from a marketing perspective since its always BMW/MB mentioned with Audi as an afterthought.

Audi needs to drop the A3 (luxury and you have that cheap thing in your lineup), since ppl complain about the TSX and it costs more. They should hope the IS-F doesn't deliver, or else they'll lose the performance bragging rights on top of it.

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Bill - 1/26/2007 5:05:59 AM

-1 Boost

You know Huu, the Audi A3 is a good car and a nice little BUYER MAGNET, something that Lexus doesn't really have. The Lexus IS is still predominantly bought by older people. Lexus could use a car like an Audi A3 to attract YOUNGER buyers.

huu76 - 1/25/2007 10:53:07 PM

-1 Boost

Foxy,
My bro has an A4 1.8T Quattro.
Turbo lag sucks (doesn't suit my driving style as I have a bit of a heavy foot), maybe the new FSI is better.
The steering is way too heavy. The interior quality is pretty good, but its ugly. Little knickknacks are kind of dumb (i.e. writing pad, arm rest cup holders, CD changer buttons are poorly layed out).
I haven't driven the new IS yet, but compared to his 2000 Celica, its much more tossable and the interior finish is about the same, as is performance. It too has the stupid armrest cupholders though.

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huu76 - 1/25/2007 10:58:20 PM

0 Boost

Last one.
The 3rd cupholder covers the CD changer buttons when its out. The writing pad comes out like the cupholder, so you'll snap it if you lean too hard.

The last QX4 was nice, 3 cupholders in the front :) My Jeep should've had 4 instead of that useless change tray.

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Lordvader - 1/25/2007 11:03:35 PM

0 Boost

Howdie Gentlemen. I would just like to add a couple of facts/options about Lexus. I talk about Lexus, because I work for them, so I can tell you for a fact what the cars have, and what they don't...

It's true, most of the sedans have run-flats now, however, regular tires are available, at no additional charge, as an option if the owner prefers at the time of sale.

The GX and LX do have 6 disc cartridges for CD's and DVD's, however, if the vehicles come with the Rear Entertainment System, there is a regular CD/DVD (single load) player in the vehicle in addition to the the magazine one.

Almost all new Luxo cars have the aux jack inputs so you can play your MP3 or IPod from them. Do not confuse this jack with an IPod jack though! No Lexus (to date) has an IPod jack in it. So yes you can play it in the car, but you have to control the songs and whatnot from the device. For the record (and this is not to say there are not others out there) but the only company I know of that has an actual IPod jack is Scion, and it is an IPod jack, and it will control your songs and playlists from the steering wheel. Again, there may be other manufacturers out there with the actual IPod jack, but Scion is the only one I know for a fact has it. Oh, but FYI, as I'm sure most of you now know, the new LS has the 30gig HD that you can just simple put your songs on, and that can be controlled from the steering wheel and via voice commands.

Now, those were the straight facts and nothing less, the following is just my opinion with some facts mixed in.

North America is the largest, most competitive, lucrative market in the world. If you want to play ball in the automotive arena, you have to play in America, otherwise, you don't have much to talk about. You have to respect this nation and it's market power and influence! Audi will have to play ball here if it wants respect and they're fighting a severe uphill battle thanks to the 90's. Lexus does play ball here, and they hold the title as it stands.

Lexus targets one thing... Luxury, and all that coincides with the luxury lifestyle. Lexus only wants to be that (luxury) and not much else. As any smart business knows, you can't be everything to everyone. Do one thing, do it right, and be the best at it! That's what Lexus has done, and that's what it will continue to do. It may make a fast fun car here and there, but that is only to enhance it's portfolio and image. I can assure you, that it does not intend to bring home the bacon with the IS500 or the LF-A. Again hear me!!!... It's only to enhance. BMW can keep the Ultimate Driv..... as far as Lexus is concerned. MB can keep the prestige and the name as far as Lexus is concerned... But if you want the most Luxury for your buck, and the most reliable, comfortable car in the world, with a practical, intelligent layout and design, you have to buy a Lexus. End of story. The ingredient and key to Lexus' success is... Driving performance and P

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mitchatlexusofmarin - 1/26/2007 12:44:45 AM

0 Boost

Lord Vader- minor correction on your excellent post. The GX has a 6 disc changer now in the glove box- gone are the cartridges. As an aside, you may enjoy knowing (as I see you are a Star Wars fan) that I have recently been to Skywalker ranch, Lucas films new headquarters at the presidio, Industrial light and magic and Skywalker sound- all as a guest of Someone very high up in the company. It is Awesome!

Lordvader - 1/25/2007 11:15:27 PM

+1 Boost

...Prestige are honeymoon factors. Most, not all, but most people get over driving fast, corning hard, and flashing the Brand Badge after about a year or so of ownership. So after that wears off, what do you have? A stiff ride? Confusing controls? Unpreditable reliability? Poor service? And that's where Lexus excels and then some. They simply invest in the things that main stream owners care about after owning their car for a few years.

Just for the record though, I love the way BMW's drive (I'm a weekend warrior for SCCA), I love the design of the new MB's and even the high price tag at times(I like the head trip!), and I love the way Audi can tuck the wheels in the wells, but if I have to own a car for a long time, and my money is not hanging out of my a**, I have to buy a Lexus.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/26/2007 1:34:10 AM

+1 Boost

You've got a point. I know people who buy Lexus just for the dealership experience, not the cars. That obviously says a lot. They must be doing something right.

Unfortunately, this formula has not worked in other parts of the world. In America, there's a belief that anything Japanese is reliable and anything German is unreliable.

Lordvader - 1/25/2007 11:41:58 PM

0 Boost

Okay, so I found out that Honda also has an actual iPod Plugin that can be controlled from the steering wheel.

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dlin - 1/26/2007 3:42:13 AM

+3 Boost

Again, AUDI simply doesn't know how to position themselves. Someone in AUDI probably drawn this marketing conclusion w/ a analogy of rebadge game between VW/AUDI & TOYOTA/LEXUS, which have played it so well. Although VW/AUDI has undeniably grown a lot and finally comes up w/ some decent cars starting last year, which help them catching up w/ BMW & Merc in brand image, someone then screws up by picking up the wrong rival. You know, there IS a reason LEXUS becomes the fastest growing marque in the world, but can AUDI duplicate the very same reason? I doubt. Plus, TOYOTA is so ahead of everyone w/ the hybrid technology which IS the future and where's VW on that?

That's why I own TOYOTA stock position while driving BMW & INFINITI.

Good luck.

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Agent63 - 1/26/2007 10:36:38 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I think Audi is totally capable of holding their own against Lexus. Like Audi said, it varies from different parts of the world on which brand is more 'prestigious'. I believe it's based on the social status and what one thinks is 'luxury'. For example if one guy tells another friend "Oh I just purchased an ES, it is very luxurious." that friend will start to believe the ES is very luxurious, which means he'll think Lexus overall is a luxury brand. Then in result more people will start buying that brand and then when there are more Lexus on the road, society will think it's a good car and at that point people will believe Lexus is superior to Audi, MB, BMW and so forth. It all depends on marketing and in which parts of the world that marketing is most effective. It clearly shows that US has a large market for Lexus.

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Lordvader - 1/26/2007 12:51:06 PM

+1 Boost

Fabian555,

You're correct on a number of things you say. As my mother, sister, and nephew live in England, I am over there quite a bit. So I can relate with you. What I said is correct though... In the United States. Across the pond though, the mentality is very different. You folks believe in diesel, not hybrids. I know this, and the numbers back it up. I personally believe that diesel cars will never catch on here, and likewise, hybrids will not catch on in Europe. At least not gas/electric hybrids. The diesel fuel mixture you use in Europe is a different formula then the one used here in the US. You have a low-sulfur mixture that is pretty good for the environment. We do not have that available to us here on a mass market scale, and to do the conversion would be far too costly. Besides, gas/electric hybrids have the public's attention here, and that's pretty much the way it's going to be for now. But here's the bottom line with all this... Fossil fuel is on it's way out, so if you base your product on gas (diesel), it will ultimately fail in the end. Alternative fuels are just around the corner for mass transit.

About the comfort comments, well... that's just strictly a matter of opinion. It can be argued either way. I could find people here that would agree with you 100%, but the consensus is that Lexus is more luxurious and comfortable then most EU brands.

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flozel1 - 1/26/2007 1:22:11 PM

+1 Boost

Too many comments on this thread...but the fact is that here in North America, Audi simply does not belong in the same class as Lexus. Lexus here competes with MB and BMW and are selling better than them (for now anyways). Audi's closest competition here from a public perception standpoint is probably Acura and Volvo

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/26/2007 1:57:24 PM

0 Boost

No, you've got it twisted. Lexus "simply does not belong in the same class" as Audi, BMW, and MB. Educated buyers know this.

The only reason Lexus is regarded to be a true competitor to MB and BMW is because of highly effective, repetitive, and focused marketing saturation.

Because when you start comparing products, things just don't add up--Lexus never offered a long wheelbase version of their flagship until now, still lack a V12 option, no performance brand, no racing history, and no international recognition.

Audi has all of the above things listed, and has had them years before Lexus. The difference is that Toyota marketed and positioned Lexus to appear to be a worthy competitor, while Audi marketed very little.

AUDIMAN4 - 1/26/2007 2:08:18 PM

0 Boost

Also, why is it that Lexus from what I've observed, really tries to reach out to Caucasian Americans? Being a Japanese company, you'd expect some high level Executives or Board members to be of Asian descent, yet the company is unproportionately run by whites.

If you go to the Lexus website, and look at sponsored athletes (tennis and golf), why are they all white? Andy Roddick is sponsored, yet James Blake (who they even admit to being a more highly rated player) is not.

One commercial in particular stands out--from the US Open with Andy Roddick driving a SC, featuring a stereotypical, large black women who spoke Ebonics. She kept talking, and Roddick just kept saying "No". It was very offensive and it was quite tacky.

There are a number of highly qualified (obviously you don't have to be the best), professional NON WHITE (Asian, black, and Latino) golf and tennis players, and Lexus chooses not to sponsor them.

It seems to me as though Lexus constantly tries to brush off it's Japanese heritage, and in the process exclude non-whites from everything it partakes in. I find it quite disturbing.

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answer - 1/26/2007 2:51:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I believe there are enough valid points up for debate here.

There is no need for you to manufacture some non-existant race issue.

dlin - 1/26/2007 9:31:25 PM

+1 Boost

That's easy. Lexus was created in US and therefore it doesn't have a japanese heritage. It was created to American's taste and what color of races in this country do you think can best afford it? We asians are already buying Merc, BMW, and Japanese premium brands anyway, right?

huu76 - 1/26/2007 7:54:31 PM

+1 Boost

When has Lexus ever tried to hide the fact its Japanese?

Audiman,
No German company has offered a performance hybrid.

Lexus called but Tiger wasn't home. Buick already got him so they can try and hide the fact they're owned by white people.

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AUDIMAN4 - 1/26/2007 10:26:30 PM

+1 Boost

Okay, here it is my 21st birthday party, and I'm on here educating your stupid ***.

First off, where do you get the idea that whites are the only ones buying luxury autos? My dad happens to be a quite well to do man...and, he also happens to be black, and drive a Lexus.

In fact, I saw a survey that said blacks are most likely to drive a Lexus or Benz. My mom and I are like 1% of black Audi drivers.

Race aside, I think Lexus could benefit from a little diversification. This is 2007, and it's a Japanese company. You can misconstrue this however you may please but you know I'm right.

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huu76 - 1/27/2007 10:31:13 AM

+2 Boost

What does this comment have to do with your other comment saying Lexus tries to hide the fact they're Japanese?

Are you bi-polar or something?

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Agent63 - 1/28/2007 2:19:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

AudiMan4: if it makes you feel any better the Japanese Yakuza's drive Lexus cars =P. I was at a drinking lounge in Tokyo and a swarm of Yakuza members pulled up in what appeared to a couple GS's and an LS. That's what I gathered when I was in Japan. They do love their Toyotas, Nissans, and Hondas. In the homeland they don't come short in catering to their people.

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