44 Votes

Auto Motor und Sport Drives the Lexus LS600h

cawimmer430 submitted on 4/26/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 7:26:43 AM

151 user comments | Category: Reviews | Source: www.autospies.com

Tag Link: Auto Motor und Sport Drives the Lexus LS600h

My scanner won't install in my computer so I can just give you the fine points.

There was a lot of praise but also a lot of negative comments, especially regarding the pathetic trunk space and load capacity.

The LS handled well if driven in a relaxed manor, but the moment one tried driving sporty with it, it's poor handling became apparent. It's no match for any of the German V12s in this class when it comes to handling - or performance. 6.3 seconds to 100 km/h is slow when compared to the Mercedes S600 for example (4.5 seconds).

Fuel economy in the mix was good, but outside on country roads and the Autobahn, the LS600h will use a lot of fuel. The engine was quiet and the comfort was good, except on uneven road surfaces where the suspension made a lot of noise.

The interior was heavily criticized for two reasons. One, the poor ergonomics. There are buttons for various features all strewn across the interior. AMS felt the logic behind this was confusing. Second, the interior materials are cheap for this class according to AMS. This type of interior would be ok in the midsize class (E-Class, 5er, GS, A6 etc.), but not here.

Lexus hopes to sell 5,000 Lexus LS in Europe. They expect that 60% of LS's sold will be Hybrids.

+Quiet engine
+Fuel economy (9.3 L/100 km mixed)
+Very comfortable
+AWD/traction
+LED lighting
+Interior space
+Low wind noises
+High speed comfort

-Slow acceleration for this class (6.3 seconds)
-Extremely small luggage space (330 liters now instead of 505 liters [LS460])
-Extremely poor load capacity (200 kg!!!)
-Noisy suspension on uneven road surfaces
-Poor handling / vague steering
-Cheap interior materials / poor interior ergonomics
-High fuel consumption outside urban environments

About the Author

User Comments

Ya, sure.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 8:43:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -12

What, so you think this is BIASED? You think people aren't allowed to give a Lexus a bad review? So, two publications have aleady given the LS600hL a mediocre first drive- but you think they're BIASED! This is pathetic!

If Lexus makes a mistake, ADMIT IT. This car is not all that you hyped it up to be! It's a far cry from being a real S600 competitor, let alone something along the lines of an R-R Phantom.

You're just so ridiculous. I can't even begin to describe my frustration. You never use any logic at all, but you are so stubbornly biased towards Lexus that it's not even funny, as it is with some of the other posters. The difference is, YOU'RE SERIOUS. LOL!
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 8:54:36 AM | | Votes: 12

wow, S4 have you not had your coffee yet this morning? What's with all the anger?

This review is ridiculous. 6.3 seconds? Bad ergonomics? Cheap interior materials? Come on. The fear that these magazines (esp German ones) have about this car is amazing. The LS600hL truly represents a landmark offering from Lexus. A car as worthy of 100,000+ as anything to come out of Europe. It clearly does not have the performance of an S600, and it undoubtedly wont tackle the twisties like a 760. But it is not trying to duplicate those cars' paths to luxury. What it provides is breathtaking power and luxury, plus the exclusivity of its price and rarity, combined with cutting egde technology, fuel efficiency and cleanliness. And that represents a compelling case for this ultimate Lexus.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 9:29:08 AM | | Votes: -12

Cheap interior materials, noisy suspension, poor ergonomics. You might believe this, but we all know you are unbiased.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 9:31:40 AM | | Votes: -10

S4cabriofoxone, I couldn’t agree with you more. I am not saying the LS600 is not a fine car and a big step for Lexus. But the way these ignorant Lexus obsessed fans put it up on such a pedestal is unbelievable. But bring it on, lets hear it… this is so biased, Lexus rules, best car on the planet…..blah blah blah.
— ATrip (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 10:37:42 AM | | Votes: 9

"these ignorant Lexus obsessed fans"

Ya know this is getting real tiring.

Serious Lexus fans like Will, myself, and a few others are continuously making valid points extolling the virtues of a premium maker of fine automobiles. Simultaneously we will point out when something German has been over-Banglized, or I-driven to madness. And if Lexus missteps, I'll point it out. Ive said often that I no longer understand the point of the RX400h, now that the engine in the RX350 is so damn good. This is the correct forum for this. You and all the other German fanboys know damn well that there's a handful of faux Lexus fan trolls (likely your own alter-egos), running around here being idiots to try to discredit the rest of us. I can only laugh every time I see a German car nut respond to one, because it is one German fan arguing with another.

This site has lost all civility of discourse, and may end up withering on the vine because of it. People (German and Lexus fans alike) are going to grow tired of the nonsense, and seek their auto news elsewhere.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 11:13:45 AM | | Votes: -5

"Cheap interior materials / poor interior ergonomics"

Let's face it the LS can't compete with the German-mobiles in this price range.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 11:55:12 AM | | Votes: 6

"This review is ridiculous. 6.3 seconds? Bad ergonomics? Cheap interior materials?"

No, it does not have cheap interior materials. However, it is significantly slower than others in this class, and the interior materials are CHEAPER than the others... not CHEAP, but cheaper, in a relative way. The leathers and woods in the 760, W12 and S600 look and feel (and probably are) much more expensive than those in the LS; the Germans have exclusive materials over their eight-cylinder counterparts, while the LS hyrbid makes do with a leather dash, but nothing else different.

I can't speak for the interior ergonomics- I haven't spent time pushing buttons in it -but the dozens of buttons are simply unattractive. The iDrive idea might not be perfectly executed (yet), but at least it looks good, especially in the S-Class and A8.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:35:14 PM | | Votes: 2

"However, it is significantly slower than others in this class"

S4, the 600hL is not significantly slower than others in its class. It is quicker than the 760, according to Edmunds, and only .1 slower than the A8 W12. And remember that is testing the pre-production Lexus. (I know you dont care about that fact.)

"and the interior materials are CHEAPER than the others... not CHEAP, but cheaper, in a relative way. The leathers and woods in the 760, W12 and S600 look and feel (and probably are) much more expensive than those in the LS"

Your statements about the belief that MBZ and BMW use higher qualities are pure conjecture. It's like the political tactic of saying something so many times, that it must be true. But it doesnt really make it true does it. You're smarter than that.

"The iDrive idea might not be perfectly executed (yet), but at least it looks good, especially in the S-Class and A8."

How can German fans continue to be so forgiving of these counter-intuitive, maddeningly difficult controls. I dont care how clean the dash is. (And i do find the BMW dash quite artistically designed. I cant say the same for the Benz.) Lexus listened to its consumers who undoubtedly screamed NO I-DRIVE!!
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 4:00:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

come on now, de-boosting, you guys are that desperate? thats the best you can come up with?
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 4:01:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

1970- I spoke at length yesterday with the designers about the future of Lexus, and Lexus products, and Nav technology and ergonomics. My emphasis was on the inability of our customers to update/change their selections on the screen once in motion. Here is what's next. Our Calty design studio is just now perfecting an all new interface which essentially works lkie this: You place your palm on a surface in the center console south of the shifter: your hand is synthesised on the nav screen as well, and mirrors on the screen, movements which you make with your hand. You will completely control all input intuitively while moving your hand on the lower screen, and being completely undistracted by needing to look at/touch the actual nav screen. The display you see will be somehow superimposed in your line of sight. I thought you might enjoy this.

Mitch
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 6:15:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

It's not fear my friend. It's just the German's have been making cars dated all the way back to early last century. I don't care what you say, Benz & Cie. was the true inventor of automobile patented in 1886 and became one of the most prestigious marque brands in the world of luxury cars.

What has Lexus done to back their brand? Lexus has many help from Toyota. If Lexus was to start how Mercedes did they would still be just a re-badged Toyota. You think they go out and get their own materials still and not use any from the Toyota parts bins? Give me a break.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 5:24:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Just have 2 comments about points that stand out as grasping at straws.

How much fuel do they expect a V12 to consume on the highway if the V8 is so bad? That's right, it's German, so it gets a "get out of jail" free card. No mention of city fuel economy vs the V12. I wonder why?

Small trunk. So basically they can cancel all other comparisons. Just like the GS, the trunk is the clincher. Who needs better mileage or more luxury when you have a big trunk.

All other "opinions" come as no surprise.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 10:41:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

because people generally do want to be able to carry more than 2 suitcases, and a 200kg load capacity!?!?!
Thats about 3 people!
And this car is SLOW, 0-100kph (0-62 mph) in 6.3!
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 11:25:15 AM | | Votes: 4

Listen to me!

Lexus quotes 0-62 (with a 2) as 6.3 seconds!!!
Those 2 mph make a big difference in loads of cars!
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:13:48 PM | | Votes: 4

mercedes et al don't market their flagship cars as being fuel efficient. so they have nothing to prove here.

lexus markets this as a hybrid and boasts about efficiency. and they're not living up to anything special.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:30:03 AM | | Votes: 1

But if their all pre-production models what makes you think they will perform better? and what makes you think their not paid off by Lexus? This world is corrupt and very biased sometimes. Money does the talking. Hence, Lexus Marketing can be awesome they hire the best.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 5:29:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

If your thinking of buying the LS600, just buy the LS460 and take the extra cash and buy a Mark Levinson HD home theater system and 52 inch flat panel or you could buy real estate or stocks.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 11:53:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Exactly.
— Shredmo (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:08:10 PM | | Votes: 5

If relatively poor driving dynamics are justifiable at this price, why wouldn't the potential buyer just get a limo and a chauffer, and get it over with. The actual driving experience must not be that important to them.
— Shredmo (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 11:57:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

"The interior was heavily criticized for two reasons. One, the poor ergonomics. There are buttons for various features all strewn across the interior. AMS felt the logic behind this was confusing. Second, the interior materials are cheap for this class according to AMS. This type of interior would be ok in the midsize class (E-Class, 5er, GS, A6 etc.), but not here."

After reading these ridiculous comments about LS600h's full leather interior, you can throw your whatever the magazine into trash can.
— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:10:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

Cheap plastic, you are talking about BMW, seriously.

The leather quality feels so much better in LS than any German competition. For example, the seats in BMW 750 are just like rock-hard park bench.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:33:54 PM | | Votes: -5

Supra, I totally agree with this. BMW interiors are cheap to all of our senses. They are too cheap to touch, too cheap to smell, too cheap to look at, to cheap to knock (cheap plastic gives off a cheap sound). When you pay so much for such cheap interior, it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. Even before you get inside the car, your sixth sense can tell you that you are getting into a cheap interior.

It's not just one model that got the cheap interiors, all the Banglelized interiors are cheap.

Anyway, the new 3 coupe looks very nice on the outside.... and I was tempted for a moment. Paid a visit to the local BMW dealer.... the cheap interior killed the deal right away. Didn't even bother with a test drive.

I really really miss the E46's interior.
— TruenoAE86 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:20:36 PM | | Votes: -4

"However there are a few exceptions too: Z4, E70 X5 and of course the Siebener."

I agree with the above except the Z4. Z4's interior is full of cheap plastic. Interior materials in the X5 and Siebener are better, but they don't look good. Indeed, they are ugly. Well, all Banglelised BMW interiors are ugly in my opinion.

"But my main concern is that is simply DOESN'T look good! I totally LOVED previous gen (pre-Bangle) BMWs with their legendary interiors with absolutely stunning build quality (ironically the best interior E39 is now the worst in the line up E60) and aimed towards the driver."

Yes, they are not only cheap, they look fugly. Bangle is a total disgrace of the Art Center College of Design. He needs to be banned from the auto industry. Furthermore, the build quality has really declined from the last generation. The legendary fit and finish is no longer there.

"But then again I really struggle to find any Japanese/Korean car that has a really beautiful interior.. you get my point?"

I get your point. Though interiors from Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are not stunningly beautiful, all these brands are doing an overall better job than BMW in terms of interior design and interior build quality in my opinion. I haven't had the same cheap BMW feeling when I sat in any Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti.

To be honest, I don't need a fancy interior. If the 3 coupe had a interior that is clean, plain and well-built like the S4's, I would have made the deal.
— TruenoAE86 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 3:15:18 PM | | Votes: -1

supra:

how dare anyone say anything negative about a lexus! you're right, any journalist who doesn't praise every aspect must be crazy.

get a grip.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:32:02 AM | | Votes: 1

Like I care, haha.

But I always speak from my heart. I'm not biased towards Japanese cars or German cars. If a car company comes up with a good car, I praise. If a car company comes up with a bad car, I criticise.
— TruenoAE86 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 8:11:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

bull!@#$
— Talli (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:10:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

Here is a good example of 2 different cultures in regards to cars and driving.
Clearly the Lexus was designed with the U.S market in mind and the handling was desgined for U.S roads and U.S drivers.
Europeans are more "drivers" than U.S and the Lexus as pretty much all Lexus is too soft for European roads.
Trunk space is EXTREMELY important for Europeans because unlike in the U.S when Europeans go on vacation a huge portion of them take their cars...in this case, the Lexus would be completely inadequate.
This car is over $100k, and even if the car is well put together, it does not have the attention to details as for example a $100k S8 or even A8L W12.
The dash on the Lexus has still too much plastics and is not layed out in an elegant manner...it is very Japanese. Nothing wrong with that, but people looking at $100k plus cars do want something that will stand out a little more.
The trunk area finish is the same as a $35k Toyota...that is inacceptable....
Lexus never had the same attention to details as some other German brand did....Audi.
With gas prices as they are in Europe, I doubt this car will sell well as it gets very poor mileage on the highway; this goes back to taking the car on vacation part I mentioned earlier.
If that car is to sell well, it should be offered with a Diesel...period.
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:17:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

Poor mileage compared to what other vehicle in this class it competes against?

— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:55:14 PM | | Votes: -6

Thank you for saying that.
I too think the interior is not elegant, nor befitting what in Europe is a near $200000 car. Very well put together, but the layout is a bit of the class below.
Europeans do drive places on holiday. I've driven to Spain before (have a house there), and everybody in Britain drives to France at some point (done it like 20 times, used to have a house there), the Germans love to drive to Spain as well, the Italians drive south, the Spanish to the coast - trunk space and load capacity and good highway fuel economy are very important, hence the large popularity of diesel MPVs and estate cars. For many people, the car is for long journeys, the bus for short ones.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:21:39 PM | | Votes: 8

Get a room you two.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 7:52:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"So should Mercedes and BMW be worried? In short, yes. Lexus sales executives told Auto Express that, with 102 orders having already been taken, demand this year is being kept deliberately manageable.

However, as they also point out, 65 per cent of those 102 orders are from buyers new to the Lexus brand - at least five of whom are choosing to leave the comfort of their Bentleys for the world's first luxury hybrid.

With so many car companies predicting tough times ahead, Lexus's confidence and enthusiasm for such vehicles and for the future makes a refreshing change. And if their sales teams are smiling, there's no doubt that their customers will be, too.

The LS600h really could be the machine that changes the world of luxury cars as we know it. And it will do so while the competition is completely unable to respond." - Auto Express UK
— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:22:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

Won't the Lexus' 2,000 units sale target in US be more than S600+ BMW 760Li+ A8 W12 combined?
— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:28:48 PM | | Votes: -7

How funny - the Audi R8 has sold 4 times as much as the 600h.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:28:55 PM | | Votes: 5

supra:

102 order? i thought the car was sold out for years?
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:34:20 AM | | Votes: 1

Supra: well since there are only 150 A8 W12 produced a year for the States, won't be hard to beat it.
I doubt that Lexus will sell 2,000 LS600h a year....
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 12:33:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

It's already sold out for 2 years.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:49:27 PM | | Votes: -4

This is exactly right- and the dealers are pissed because we are turning away business at this point.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 7:53:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

david:

sold out for 2 years?

sold=cash exchanged. that's not the case with the LS. no non-refundable deposits. there are just lists of people who SAY they want one. let's see if they actually buy.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:37:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

My Gosh! Can' t you wait two-three months until testing a production car?
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:14:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

If this is really a pre-production car, then why does Lexus allow the motoring magazines to drive these cars and give "poor" reviews.

If I were Lexus, I'd wait until a "production" car is available that has been perfected or improved, and then I'd let the journalists drive it.

Your excuses are lame.

And if you're correct, which I doubt, then Lexus is being extremely STUPID by allowing journalists to drive a "half-finished product".
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:56:24 PM | | Votes: 2

Sailor, willis and all paparidides, you re so pathetic.
I remember how poustrakia tou kerata like you, bashed Prius mpg (claiming 26 mpg!)

LS600h is designed to be a second faster than LS460L.
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 10:58:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

wtf? ive never heard of anyone complain about noisy suspension on any car that wasnt 10 years old.
— gsh23 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:25:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

This is definitely a bullshit review, it all sounds fake. A real professional from an Auto magazine does not even use these terms and words.

And what is he outta his mind: Cheap interior materials, noisy suspension, poor ergonomics, 6.3 seconds?! Lexus has one of the most quietest suspension out all the cars. This is all bullshit, everyone knows that LS600HL is an amazing vehicle. This is not a real review.

I never knew how many Lexus haters are out there. I also like Audi A8 (awesome vehicle by the way) and Mercedes S-class, I would not call myself a Lexus fanatic, but this car is simply amazing. There is no way that it can have these negative reviews.
— WeFlyHighNoLie (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:42:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

you hit the nail on the head WeFlyHighNoLie.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 1:57:36 PM | | Votes: -2

I'm with you. I'm calling bulls**t on Mr Carwimmer, now that I am awake and can actually do some research. I checked out the article, and through Yahoo translator, I read nothing about most of the supposed complaints. The one contentious issue is still the 6.3 seconds, which is an objective measurement, not the kind of subjective b.s. that Carwimmer is talking about. I will chalk that 6.3 up to error, as it is not in line with anyone else's times.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:14:04 PM | | Votes: -2

msn uk have it, as do autoexpress. and autotrader, and the motoring sections of the papers...all say 0-62 in 6.3 seconds.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:23:25 PM | | Votes: 3

you think I cannot look up magazine on the internet, or find an online translator? c'mon, give me some credit.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 3:01:56 PM | | Votes: 0

Funny how 3 European auto sites all came up with the exact same time (couldnt find a test of the 600hL on Autotrader, American or European). I suppose all of your papers are quoting the same as well huh? And you wonder why Lexus fans see bias? These sites cannot even take the effort to run the times themselves. There is no way they are all independently testing and getting the same times. And yes, I do know its 0-62, not 0-60. Still does not account for the discrepancy.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 3:16:19 PM | | Votes: -2

well then it must be so, if a bunch of bloggers think it.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 3:17:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

No actual road test exisst of the LS600hL from any of these 3 magazines
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 4:27:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

0-62 at 6.3 is the time Lexus is giving them. Magazines here don't generally do independent tests, especially something like MSN UK.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 5:40:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Was refering to Autotrader, MSN which were quoted.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 6:59:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

david999: Poor gas mileage over Diesel based car.
An A8 4.2 TDI with a 350hp Twin Turbo Diesel V8 and over 520 lbs of torque will blow the Lexus out of the water in terms of dynamics, performance and mostly...gas mileage.
And the LS is sold out primarely in the U.S...which again....this is it's main market....
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 2:01:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

Lexus LS600hL was made to compete against V12 class.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 4:23:00 PM | | Votes: -3

Right....especially since the IS-F has been available for test drive...
Thanks for the laugh...
What a fruit!
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 3:00:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

lexusfanforever isn't serious.
he's another joker.
come on guys...he's saying ridiculous things.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:39:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

That an interesting history lesson...Food for thought for the Lexus fanatics.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 3:59:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

why do they posting the samething, we get it it doesn't handle better then a s class or a 7 sereis, thats not what a huge luxary sedan is made for.
— trd1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 5:44:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

The Lexus LS600hl is a masterpiece, it better looking than the BMW 745 Series, Audi A8 and the MB S-class. And has more sales than the BMW 7 Series and Audi A8 and just behind the MB S-class. Don't belief me? do a search on this website, it was posted here 2 days ago.

The Lexus LS460/LS600hl is beauty is just stunning, you have to see one on the road to belief.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 6:33:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz specs show 5.4)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the Lexus people.....
— bevisroy (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 6:42:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

that's not true.
under the new SAE ratings most european models stayed the same, several american models WENT UP and lexus in particular when down noticeably.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:42:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

you guys should read http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/12881/2008-lexus-ls600hl.html
this sounds realistic, in my opinion this is an amazing car, it has more safety features, better, performance, world's first (led headlights) AWD and luxury that is comparable to anything in this price range. you cant argue with that whether you like it or not
— junep (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 7:27:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Why they hate Lexus so much? why I ask you? because they fear Lexus will put their favorite brands to shame. Lexus has better interior, exterior, most highly technological in it segement, and better realibility and quality.

And eventually Lexus will create a high performance Lexus that is good enough that put the German brand to shame. For example here are the models that is intended to do just that, the IS-F, GS-F, LS-F and the Lexus LF_A. Mark my word, Lexus will eventually make a sportcars that will out handle the BMW M-divison, Audi RS-division and MB AMG. No one can be number one forever.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 7:43:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Fabian, you're so true.

The 7-series looks divine and passionate.
— LexusNumberOne4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 6:13:26 AM | | Votes: 2

Lexus will eventually take over this performance division as well. Why you ask? they have the money and resources to hire the best engineers and designer from almost anywhere they want.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 4/26/2007 7:58:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Passion like what?

Do you get an orgasm whan a German car passes by?

— LexusNumberOne4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 6:11:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

"Cheap interior materials / poor interior ergonomics"

LMAO these fools have no clue, that is THE BEST lexus interior ever made!!! onething i do agree is those buttons :(
but those butter soft leathers is close to the MB, so i know this article is BS
— Denali (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 12:35:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

The LS hardly qualifies for the best interior ever made award. I have to agree with the article. In comparison to the Audi A8 or S class the LS interior appears a little cheapened.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 4:10:40 PM | | Votes: 1

Party's over. C/D and Motortrend have proven that LS600hL is everything Lexus claimed (and in some cases, even better).

Time to huddle, regroup and focus on magic feel and prestige again.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 12:40:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Yeah, let's dismiss the respected European car magazines because here come the sell-out American rags!

Good one Huu76!
— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 1:54:56 AM | | Votes: 1

yeah!

25+MPG
faster than the base LS460 and the S600
environmentally sound because it uses less raw materials

oh right...none of those things are true.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:45:58 AM | | Votes: 2

we don't forget all the ridiculous claims you've made about this car huu.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:46:44 AM | | Votes: 2

I agree, in Germany or in Europe for that matter a Lexus LS is not a competitor no matter how good it is. People will love their domestic brands and that's the truth. The odd person will buy the LS600H for it's hybrid technology but it's not like they wouldn't go for a diesel anyways so it's a tough call.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 5:32:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Wow this is hilarious all these Lexus haters. I am not a crazy fan like some people are with Lexus cars, but I still give them lots and lots of props for even competing on the top level.

I am not saying the Lexus is better or worse than MB, BMW or Audi. But people still gotta give them props for getting up there with these car makes. I don't understand why stubborn people just won't admit that Lexus is not a bad car.

I respect the makers of Lexus, the sales are increasing every year. They worked hard and achieved their goal and they deserve it. They are competing on top now.
— WeFlyHighNoLie (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 6:33:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

"WeFlyHighNoLie" don t take into account
those blind Lexus haters. Toyota/Lexus hybrids are changing the history of Automotive. All these bashers are very jealous and angry. You should have seen, how they were bombing(!) Toyota Prius fan sites, when Toyota Prius went on market...
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:39:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Willis
"If this is really a pre-production car, then why does Lexus allow the motoring magazines to drive these cars and give "poor" reviews?"

Ask yourself "Why Toyota/Lexus is on TOP on the world?"
policies...
Also, History reveals that complicated systems such as Toyota/Lexus synergies, need some time to gain ecocomy and performance.
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 12:12:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

economy said...
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 12:39:33 PM | | Votes: 1

This still does not explain why Toyota would allow motoring journalists to drive a half-finished product. I am an objective thinker and to me, the Lexus fanboys are simply coming up with lame excuses to defend their favorite car.

I like all kinds of cars, including Lexus. I can respect Lexus, but I cannot respect the Lexus fanboys on this site due to their constant childish behavior.

Pre-production model? Give me a break1
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 2:59:44 PM | | Votes: 0

enhtusiast,
Care to prove I made those claims? I'm not stupid to pick an exact mileage figure. I recall stating V12 performance, V6 fuel economy.
So funny listening to all these whiners though.
LS600 5.5sec is faster than the LS460 5.9sec. MB needs a twinturbo V12 to beat the LS600. I'll bet you can actually see the gas needle moving when you drive.

Matt,
Sellout American rags, C/D wasn't a sellout when they rated the LS460L last in their previous comparison, eventhough it matched/outperformed most of the competition (except for braking which Lexus has corrected).

Too funny.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 1:54:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Umm...Huu76, the Mercedes S600 TRASHES the LS600h in acceleration. Where the hell did you get 5.9 seconds for the S600? Oh wait, you're a delusional biased moron.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 2:57:43 PM | | Votes: 1

"Auto Motor und Sport" -- Hahaha lol .. Why so many fans of german cars take Lexus as a mortal enemy i dont understand . Yes, Toyota means to eat their lunch .. but hey as teh consumers competitiion is good.
Stupid rags like the above arent respected anywhere. I wonder what will be next .. I know the review from "De Schitzel und Wagen Driver" where they will sing paeans of praise for teh steam engine, 12 cyclinder cars wile decrying Lexus for dragging them out of the stone age..
— izfuney (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 2:41:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

You aren't even that funny.
— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 6:44:22 PM | | Votes: -1

Willis,
Better read my post again.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/27/2007 11:02:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

0-62, not 0-60 is 6.3.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 9:21:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Hey WILLIS! Calculate this...

http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-LS460-11277/
Does LS460 need 6.5 sec on 0-60!!!!?
Suppose 0-62 in ~7 seconds?!!!!

Again and again, this is getting boring... Toyota/Lexus haters should find something else to bash... LS600h is designed to be about second faster than LS460...
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 12:05:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Why would Lexus offer a car that "was designed" to be 1 second faster for $100K+ compared to its "cheaper" LS460 cousin?

Your statement totally destroys part of Lexus own philosophy: value.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 4:04:50 PM | | Votes: 0

"Why would Lexus offer a car that "was designed" to be 1 second faster for $100K+ compared to its "cheaper" LS460 cousin?
Your statement totally destroys part of Lexus own philosophy: value."

Stop distorting my words...
LS600h "is designed" to be one second faster than LS460. Just as Lexus "designs" luxury cars.

You look silly, trying to imply that Lexus or any other serious automaker fail to meet their spec...
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 8:31:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

LS600h designed to be 1 sec faster than LS460...
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 12:09:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I'd personally go for the LS460. Better value, just as comfortable and fast and better looking from the front (don't like the LED lights).

But the LS600h doesn't seem very good value considering the LS460 performs nearly as well.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/28/2007 4:03:01 PM | | Votes: 1

Yeah! LS460 is more harmful for environment too. But I think you should buy a German car. After all they pollute more, and this adds value.
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 10:18:03 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I got news for you. The LS460 pollutes just as much as a German car or a Korean car or a car made in Fiji for all I care. Want to know how? Ask and I'll enlighten you.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 12:15:36 PM | | Votes: 1

By the way, if Lexus "cared so much about the environment", why does the LS460 have a V8? Why did they just release the LX570? You Lexus guys and your environmental claims are just pathetic.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 12:16:36 PM | | Votes: 1

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2006-new-york-auto-show-lexus-cga.htm

carter said the system delivers the "contradictory combination" of the thrust of a powerful 12-cylinder engine and the fuel economy and exhaust emissions of a v8. preliminarily rated at more than 430 horsepower,

lexus claims the all-wheel-drive 600h l will do 0-60 mph in about 5 seconds, a full second quicker than the rear-wheel-drive ls 460, but with the same average combined city/highway fuel economy of around 20 mpg, michels said.

still, fuel economy is not this hybrid's primary mission. showing off lexus's craftsmanship and know-how is.
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 10:27:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

still, fuel economy is not this hybrid's primary mission. showing off lexus's craftsmanship and know-how is.

Now that statement is just plain retarded. What's with all the hype we're hearing from you fanboys about how the LS600h will get such super dooper gas mileage? All of a sudden, the car doesn't deliver the promised mileage and you conviently change your reasoning and claim that this car was created not to deliver good gas mileage but to show what Lexus is capable off.

Wow, whatever it is you're smoking, you better quit.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 12:18:39 PM | | Votes: 1

http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/04/LS-600h-L-2.JPG
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 10:28:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Willis,
Because if Lexus offered a V6, you Germans would be complaing about that too.

Face it, European cars have joined the rest of the continent and are nothing but shite.

Who even takes Europe seriously anymore? They're just lazy ppl living in the past, and it shows in their cars.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 2:39:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Let's all laugh at huu76!
— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 6:33:04 PM | | Votes: 1

I'm with ya!
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/29/2007 9:51:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the Lexus people.....
— bevisroy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2007 11:21:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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