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Has Lexus Really Missed The Mark This Badly With The LS600hL?

Agent009 submitted on 11/12/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:40 PM
from: www.thetruthaboutcars.com

[150] user comments | category: Report Cards

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Has Lexus Really Missed The Mark This Badly With The LS600hL?

Lexus has gone green. That’s right. The Japanese luxury automaker’s website encourages actual and potential customers to explore eco-design and hybrid living. Meditative Asian music and beautiful nature photographs accompany the explanation: “Hybrid Living explores new ideas of how we can experience our lives in such a way that minimizes our impact on earth without sacrificing comfort and luxury.” Kinda makes me want to fire-up an incense stick, slip on some sandals and go for a slow Sunday afternoon drive in an ecologically-tuned Lexus. But my inner cynic won’t let me enjoy the ride. Despite Lexus’ posturing, the two-and-a-half ton LS600hL doesn’t run on herbal tea and happy thoughts.

The LS600hL is Abel to the LS460L’s Cain. Only the dashing “Hybrid”-embossed chrome swooshes across the door panel bottoms indicate the hL’s relative virtue. The LS remains a deeply anodyne design whose size and stance are the only indication that something expensive this way cometh. Still, bonus points for not following BMW into flame surfaced Hell, and the LS’ integrated exhaust pipes are plenty wikkid.

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DaHarder - 11/12/2007 12:52:38 PM

-9 Boost

Believe It Or Not:

There IS a faction of the luxury car buying public that see LEXUS a the pinnacle of the genre, and are willing go pay whatever it takes to own the Best of the Breed (LS600h).

The LUXURY of Choice is The Only True Luxury!

reply to this comment

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 1:06:13 PM

-6 Boost

BTW... I hope that DeBoosting The Truth makes You Feel Better, Because It doesn't Bother Me One Bit...

Happy Posting!

BMW4me4ever - 11/12/2007 1:29:13 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

which faction is that? Best of what breed? I find that amusing to think that the Lexus LS600h is the best of the $100k sedans. In a recent comparo, didnt it come in 4th place. lol ...

w209w114 - 11/12/2007 1:52:15 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

DaHarder,

You are so full of it. The LS600HL isnt even more fuel efficient than the regular model. And its 20K more. The only luxury here is for those who want to allow Toyota to take an extra $20,000 out of their pockets for what is overall a worse car. And that is the real truth.

w209w114 - 11/12/2007 1:56:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

In addition, theres nothing 600 about the LS. Its purely a sticker car with nothing to back it up. A pathetic attempt at trying to equal the image of the S600 V12 Sedan.

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 2:45:04 PM

-2 Boost

As usual, there are those who Only Read That Which They Choose...

"There IS a faction of the luxury car buying public that see LEXUS a the pinnacle of the genre, and are willing go pay whatever it takes to own the Best of the Breed (LS600h)."

The LEXUS Breed... NOT The Entire Luxury Sedan Landscape!

What is this almost Unnatural Fear that Many of You Seem To Have of Lexus and Its Products Anyway?

Lavic - 11/12/2007 3:45:10 PM

+4 Boost

Da Harder,
You are right; there are people that are willing to dish out the premium for this car. Those people are snobs that are buying a car for the prestige of it. Those people don't know cars. They are "phonies" that are buying a car so others can see them in that car. They probably have no clue whatsoever about what Miles per Gallon means.

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 4:50:37 PM

-4 Boost

I'm going to break this to you as gently as humanly possible...

Almost All of These Ultra Premium Luxury Sedans are Bought For 'The PRESTIGE of It'.

Note: I sincerely hope that this doesn't throw off your Life's Dynamic Equilibrium.

But - It's True!

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:04:43 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

DaHarder, you're trying too hard, and it's not working.

Your posts are very contrived... yes, there are people that want this car, but not for the right reasons. I stand by my statement that the LS600hL is an unjustifiable purchase. I want to like it, but I can't. It's just too poorly executed.

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 7:16:22 PM

-7 Boost

... Yet Again, Your Error is Actaully Believing that I Care About What You Think of My Opinions/Posts...

You're Just NOT That Important!

Some of you are so convinced that your assessment of this or that matters to above all others, and it simply doesn't.

If you don't agree with my posts... Don't Read Them.

Note: There's Beauty in Diverse Thinking.

w209w114 - 11/13/2007 11:26:18 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Someone take DaHarder off the crack pot he's smoking. What a loser. Does he have a life, job, or anything else more constructive to do with his time? I notice he always posts instantly and is all over the place.

Agent009 - 11/12/2007 12:57:54 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

yep fixed

reply to this comment

answer - 11/12/2007 12:57:22 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

From the manufacturer's websites:

LS600h: 438 hp, 20/22 mpg, 5.5 0-60, $104,000 base price

760iL: 438 hp, 14/22 mpg, 5.8 0-60, $123,000 base price

If you compare the LS hybrid to the BMW V12 (which was what the LS hybrid was designed to compete with) it doesn't seem to be a failure at all.

reply to this comment

pushrod27 - 11/12/2007 1:28:18 PM

-1 Boost

The 760Li is a design from 2002. The LS hybrid is brand new. It's easy to one-up someone when you study what they do before you make your move. True innovation is more difficult.
Compare the LS to a more recently designed rival: The LS is supposed to compete with the MB S600 (as if) but in fact the LS600hL is no quicker and not much more fuel efficient than the base V8 powered Mercedes-Benz S550. To quote Motortrend magazine from a recent test:
'The LS600hL over-promises and under-delivers... It is not worthy of a 600 badge.'
This makes it a failure.

EL34 - 11/12/2007 1:50:55 PM

-4 Boost

What if BMW comes out with a 7 Series Hybrid?

What if ToyLex fanboys?

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:07:25 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

The 760Li is the worst twelve-cylinder sedan available, period.

The 750Li is just as fast. 0-60 in 5.8 (BMW website!), 17/25MPG. That's with the 2008 EPA rating.

And I think you know as well as I do, answer, that most have trouble achieving Lexus's quoted time for the LS600hL.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 9:13:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Excuse me, it's not the worst, but the slowest (760Li). Though I don't know of many twelve-cylinder sedans that are "worse" than the stellar 760. Because even being the worst in that pack is being one of the best in the world.

Mercedes - 11/13/2007 1:27:53 AM

+1 Boost

Lets stop the bullshit. The only reason for Lexus to badge their car a "600" is to hint at a Mercedes S600, the ruler of the segment. Sure the BMW 760Li isn't worth the premium over the 750Li nor is the A8L W12 worth it over the A8L or S8, but ahh....the S600 kills the segment and the performance over the S550 is ridiculous. The average S550 can do the 60 mph thing in anywhere from 5.4-5.6 secs, the S600 nails it in 4.2-4.5. a huge difference in the real world. Your pitiful LS600hL can't even outrun a S550 so let up quit kidding here, we all know Mercedes is Lexus' target in this segment, has been since 1990...and the LS"600" doesn't even come close to the true "600", the S600 from Mercedes-Benz!

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/13/2007 1:40:34 AM

0 Boost

"The 760Li is the worst twelve-cylinder sedan available, period."

Wowoww!! Are you ok?

It's not so much about the speed in a twelve-cylinder, it's about the magic and the smoothness... wait didn't I already explain all of this to you?

445 DIN hp is plenty. I don't need more. To sixty a 750i is slightly slower but on the autobahn they're in different leagues. A 760i can easily do 180 mph.

MeanVulcan - 11/14/2007 8:46:17 AM

+2 Boost

Its pretty lame for Lexus to target the worst performer (760iL) and still be beat by a "lesser" trim level Audi V8 TDI. What kind of excuse is it to go out and search for the car that actually underperforms the LS600h and say that "the LS600h was built to compete with it". How old is the 760iL anyway? Is it even a fair comparison of new vs old models. Its sad to see the Lexus fans so desperate.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/14/2007 11:38:11 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Sevor, notice how I amended my post.

enthusiastx11 - 11/12/2007 12:58:12 PM

+1 Boost

in summation...

"In the final analysis, the only point of the LS600hL is to assuage the guilt of shallow, label-conscious snobs. That’s an expensive cure for a senseless affliction. In that sense, the ‘h’ in the model’s name might as well stand for hypocrite."

my advice: buy the LS460L and use the change to buy a prius for the daily commute.

reply to this comment

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 1:03:41 PM

+1 Boost

Posting yet another thread about this vehicle really borders on irresponsible since we know all this is going to turn into is yet another Nippo/Euro Flame War.

Question: What Was the Point of Starting This Thread... The REAL POINT?

reply to this comment

EL34 - 11/12/2007 1:47:55 PM

-1 Boost

I give Lexus the "Missing Link" award with the LS600.

It's gunna take a few more designs before Lexus can compete with the Germans.

Missing Link 2008 Lexus Automobiles

reply to this comment

M35MT - 11/12/2007 2:27:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Competition by definition would be sales. Choose your words carefully.

w209w114 - 11/12/2007 1:58:18 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

The S600 doesnt try to be something its not.

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pushrod27 - 11/12/2007 6:04:50 PM

+1 Boost

Of course the S600 is faster than the S550. And why on earth would a person buy a V12 and expect more fuel efficiency than a V8? Lexus made the promise of V12 power with V8 economy, not Mercedes. The S600 is all about power.

how stupid are you?

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:10:21 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

The S600 is one of the quickest sedans in the world, of course it's faster. It's TWO SECONDS quicker than the LS600hL which was designed to compete with it. So it's a wonder that it gets mileage that's even close, on the highway (17, according to Mercedes). Its 11MPG city rating is horrible, but I can't expect much out of a car with a twin-turbocharged V12 (510hp/612lb ft).

reply to this comment

Bill - 11/12/2007 6:51:19 PM

+1 Boost

Actually the S600 gets pretty "good mileage" considering its power output and weight. Besides, the S600 doesn't try to be green. The LS600h is all about hype.

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answer - 11/12/2007 2:26:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Instead of studying magazines, debating with internet posters, etc....you could always buy one if you like it. And if you don't like it? Well, just don't buy one.

Caution: this strategy only works if you can think for yourself and don't require the approval of others for every decision you make.

reply to this comment

autopro - 11/12/2007 2:59:15 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

The only hype its lived up to is the sales numbers.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:11:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

And, ironically, its sales numbers are a product of the hype that it doesn't live up to. People bought it before they knew anything about it.

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M35MT - 11/12/2007 2:35:34 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Does anyone buy a RR supercharged for the extra horsepower? No. They buy it for the badge. Do they actually take it off road? Hell no. Why did they buy it? The badge. Why did Lexus make this car? For those who want the badge.

reply to this comment

M35MT - 11/12/2007 2:38:15 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Yes, there are people out there that covet the Lexus badge, and want an exclusive Lexus to show off to their friends at their next wine and cheese party.

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 2:54:36 PM

-1 Boost

And there's no more wrong with that than those who spend exorbitant amounts of money buying an other luxury item.

It's their money, to do with as they see fit, and all the Anti-Japanese Luxury Vehicle Manufacturer Rhetoric In The World Doesn't Matter One Iota...

Vivi la Difference!

JRobUSC - 11/12/2007 2:58:04 PM

0 Boost

then they could do that with an LS460. Buying the LS600h for $25k extra when all you really get is performance that is equal or worse in every respect, a half size trunk, different lights, and AWD just makes you someone who likes to showoff how little your money means to you. There is not a single justifiable reason to get the LS600h over the LS460 unless you need AWD, which isn't worth $25k, and in that case get an S8 or S550 4MATIC and you have everything the LS600h does along with the full trunk and performance befitting the cost.

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 3:02:51 PM

-1 Boost

^ WHO CARES?

If the LS600h is want the buyer wants, Then They'll Buy It...

Without Having To Answer To You or Anyone else!

Which Part Don't You Understand?

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:13:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

But M35, the difference is the RR Supercharged CAN go off-road (in this analogy). The Lexus CANNOT achieve respectable mileage numbers.

Granted, the mileage would be much more impressive if the car was quicker. But it isn't--and it is because of the hybrid system! The batter adds so much unnecessary weight and dampens the performance as well as the fuel economy. The very reason people want the car in the first place (badge) is its downfall.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:14:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

*Battery.

autopro - 11/12/2007 3:00:57 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

And their's thousands of people who over-pay for an electronic nightmare just because it has a chicken foot on the hood.

reply to this comment

pushrod27 - 11/12/2007 6:08:53 PM

-1 Boost

their's??? Perhaps your mastery (or lack thereof) of the english language is what blinds you to the benefits of the three-pointed star.

cdoke - 11/12/2007 3:04:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"their's"

*** sigh ***

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DaHarder - 11/12/2007 3:12:40 PM

-2 Boost

The Level of Narcissism and Arrogance In This Place is Seriously Laughable!

No Individual Need Run Their Automotive Purchase/Choice Through Any of Your 'Filters Of Approval'...

If you Don't Like The LS600h, Trust Me, The Dealer Will Sell It To Someone Who'll Absolutely Love It Both During The Ownership Period, and Also At Resale Time.

Note: Great Resale - Something Few (Euro or otherwise) Full-Sized Luxury Makers Can Claim.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:15:21 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

But they would love the LS460L MORE. Because it does everything better! What about that do YOU not understand?

Porschinator - 11/12/2007 3:13:25 PM

-2 Boost

Well every auto has good/bad reviews. It is the only way to know how a car performs throug hthe eyes of experts. I do not believe any of us are in the auto Mag business. Of course there is the other side of the coin with personal preference.

There is also another side called hype. Toyota has been known to over hype the hybrids. Definitely a valiant effort but does nto deliver as promised. Just like the Prius, after the new EPA standards kicked in the Prius is rated at 46MPG from the marketed 60MPG. Still trying to figure out how they got away with that.

Anyways Toyota is putting great effort and perhaps the second generation will prove better results. Toyota/Lexus wins hands down in the marketing dept!

reply to this comment

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:20:50 AM

0 Boost

that 60 mpg was derived by running the car thru the EPA's OWN TEST cycle. that's how they got away with that.

so it was the EPA cycle that was overoptimistic. don't blame toyota for that.

and even 46 real mpg is far better than ANYONE ELSE can manage, other than the diesels.

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:00 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:05 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:10 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:17 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:19 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:23 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:21:29 AM

0 Boost

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 3:34:32 AM

0 Boost

sorry for the muiltiple posts. the server is as slow as molasses at minus 8 degrees tonite. which it is, outside.

hit the 'submit' button so often 'cuz i thot it was DEAD!

AgentOrange - 11/12/2007 3:29:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It should be illegal to take advantage of senior citizens regardless of their financial status...

reply to this comment

noname00 - 11/12/2007 3:45:45 PM

+1 Boost

I would prefer de merc 500HP bi-turbo V12 in the LS instead of the hibrid technology.

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EL34 - 11/12/2007 4:25:29 PM

+2 Boost

Makes perfect sense to me ;)

Lexus - 11/12/2007 3:58:45 PM

-1 Boost

I would rather get the regular Lexus LS460L and save the $20k. The only thing that I really like about the Lexus LS600hl is the Xenon lights.

Buy the regular Lexus LS460L and still have $20k left to go on a vacation in Hawaii and get a good tan ;)

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:16:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I agree, Lexus. The LS460L is an excellent harmony of engineering and comfort. The LS600hL pushes it too far and ruins a great thing in the process.

Lexus - 11/12/2007 4:03:14 PM

-1 Boost

But as far as look go, Lexus LS600hl rank #1 in this class for sure.

Lexus

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EL34 - 11/12/2007 4:24:27 PM

-2 Boost

Why?

:(

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 4:37:58 PM

-2 Boost

Because...

As foreign as this concept seems to be in this forum -

It's His Opinion, and He Need Not Explain It To To You or Anyone Else.

Note: Good For Him!

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:17:52 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Well, DaHarder, I'm sick of your defending other people's OPINIONS. He stated this as a FACT.

The LS600hL looks good... but MY OPINION is that the S600 and A8L W12 look better. EL34 SHARES that OPINION.

Bill - 11/12/2007 6:57:11 PM

0 Boost

What class?

The LS600h is in a league of its own with no real competition. Oh yeah, now I get it! No competition = 1st place!

Czelinski - 11/12/2007 5:19:57 PM

0 Boost

"There IS a faction of the luxury car buying public that see LEXUS a the pinnacle of the genre, and are willing go pay whatever it takes to own the Best of the Breed (LS600h)."

People, somewhere in this world actually consider Lexus a luxury brand? Geeze...

reply to this comment

pushrod27 - 11/12/2007 6:07:09 PM

+1 Boost

it's mostly women.

Czelinski - 11/12/2007 5:20:53 PM

-2 Boost

"But as far as look go, Lexus LS600hl rank #1 in this class for sure."

And no, it doesn't.

reply to this comment

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 5:33:36 PM

-4 Boost

^ Question: Will You Be Searching Through All Previous Posts So As To Offer Your Disapproval For Anything With Which You Don't Agree?

Just Curious...

lyonboy - 11/12/2007 5:41:45 PM

+4 Boost

I know several people who shopped the LS600hL and stopped when they looked at the trunk. The LS600hL is barely faster than the S550 and the LS600hL shares that now generic Lexus look with the ES, IS, and GS. What looked fresh with the introduction of the GS now is ho-hum now that every other Lexus sedan shares the same look. Lexus builds great boring, fast cars.

reply to this comment

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 5:46:30 PM

-2 Boost

So a family resemblance for (i.e. common visual connection) AUDI/Mercedes/BMW vehicles is Fine, Yet a Cohesive Design Language for LEXUS is Wrong?

Just Curious...

david999 - 11/12/2007 6:48:27 PM

-3 Boost

"I know several people who shopped the LS600hL and stopped when they looked at the trunk" Ya, sure.

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 8:04:06 AM

-1 Boost

it's no worse, and FAR BETTER, than when if you wanted a bmw, whether you paid $28k or $98k you just got the SAME SAUSAGE, in different LENGTHS! lol!

JUGNU - 11/12/2007 5:48:01 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Lexus promised that LS600hL will give the power/Luxury/and other things that come with these Top End sedans like Prestige and Image, but with the Economy and Emissions of V8.

Now Morons tell me what's wrong in that? why u think it doesn't make sense?

In a recent thread about LS600hL VS A8 Diesel many morons said that Lexus promised Emissions of V6 therefore Lexus over-promised but under-delivered.

Idiots don't forget it already has a V8(Which is even bigger than that of LS460's)
so how on earth can it deliever the mileage of a V6.
(maybe u guys are confusing it with GS450h)

anyway i won't waste my time convincing u ignorants any more.

Believe what u believe.

but to me LS600hL is like no other.It's one of the best.and Lexus will sell every they make.

JUGNU

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:21:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

"Lexus promised that LS600hL will give the power/Luxury/and other things that come with these Top End sedans like Prestige and Image, but with the Economy and Emissions of V8.

Now Morons tell me what's wrong in that? why u think it doesn't make sense?"

Because it's NOT TRUE. They didn't DELIVER on those promises!

"In a recent thread about LS600hL VS A8 Diesel many morons said that Lexus promised Emissions of V6 therefore Lexus over-promised but under-delivered."

No... we said they promised the power of a V12 with the economy of a V8, which they did. But while it has the power of a V12, for sure, don't be deceived. It's NOT as fast as any twelve-cylinder sedan and can barely keeping up with eight-cylinder models. Its fuel economy is only average as an eight-cylinder car, also, which is strange seeing as it's a V8 HYBRID.

JUGNU, I can't comprehend this car. It's so easy to pick on, and you still defend it. It looks good, but is that all you want?

Its performance is subpar. Its mileage is subpar. Every luxury feature on this car is available on the LS460L. What does it have left? A badge?

StickShiftCamry - 11/12/2007 5:55:04 PM

-1 Boost

The 600h is actally a much better deal than all the other V12's, and faster than the non turbo V12's. Most get 5.5 sec 0-60 time. Given the amount of luxury equipment and the aftermarket subwoofer like bass from the Mark Levinson, it's a better deal. Plus under normal driving in a crowded city on a day-to-day basis, the gas mileage is much better than the other V12s for such a fast car.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 6:22:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

The A8L achieves a 5.0 sec 0-60 times in most tests; its fastest time is 4.8.

XYZZ - 11/14/2007 8:12:25 AM

0 Boost

this is the point most totally MISS.

in city driving, where v12 limos see MOST duty, this car gives some 50% BETTER MILEAGE. much of it ghosting along in TOTAL SILENCE, with electric drive.

this alone sets it apart from and ABOVE ALL competitors.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/14/2007 11:42:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I wouldn't want "total silence" or "ghosting." I'm being perfectly honest here. Even in my ultra-lux sedan I should hear its marvelous engine working. Not loud, but audible.

The LS600hL misses the mark. Why is it so hard for you to admit that?

S4cabriofoxone - 11/14/2007 11:45:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

And, BTW, the Jaguar Super V8 is quieter than the LS600hL if that's REALLY what you want. This is from Motor Trend's COMPARISON, in which they had real test results.

Audi also says the A8 has the lowest wind/tire noise in its class for 2008. Although it would take nothing less than a doctor with a stethoscope to detect any sound difference between the cars in this class, I'm glad you can still hear the engines... in MOST of them.

autopro - 11/12/2007 6:07:19 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

I just want to over-pay for a car with a chicken foot on the hood. At least when I'm broken down on the side of the road people will know I'm rich.

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