Honda developing super-efficient hybrids

rybo submitted on 02/17/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:27 PM
from: www.motorauthority.com

[28] user comments | category: Misc News

Tags: Honda

Honda

Honda is investigating ways of recapturing heat energy lost through a car’s exhaust to help generate electricity and power an electric motor for a new generation of ultra-efficient hybrid cars. Conventional internal combustion engines waste a lot of energy in creating heat, but by applying a ‘Rankine cycle,’ a process where hot exhaust gases are used to heat up a water reservoir and create steam to spin a turbine, electricity can be generated. This electricity can then be used to charge up an array of batteries and help power a hybrid-electric powertrain.

Engineers have been using a Honda Stream as their test vehicle, a compact crossover sold in Japan and parts of Europe powered by 2.0L direct-injection petrol four-cylinder. The car was fitted with a new cylinder head with insulated exhaust ports, an evaporator built into the catalytic converter, a high-pressure water reservoir plus a generator and condenser. Read Article

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_43LE - 2/18/2008 9:46:54 AM

+1 Boost

So Mike, you're "MidEngine"?

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TurboSpyder - 2/20/2008 12:33:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

#1. you cannot classify whole cultures, to say nothing of nations, on the basis of religion. nations and cultures are composed of INDIVIDUALS, who vary widely.

Really? You can't know something about the whole population based on surveying the individuals that make up the population?

"The 2003 National Assessment of Adult Literacy is a **nationally representative** assessment of English literacy among American adults age 16 and older."

"In 2003, over 19,000 adults participated in the national and state-level assessments, **representing the entire population of U.S. adults** who are age 16 and older, most in their homes and some in prisons from the 50 states and the District of Columbia."

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/

#2. you think quoting the Bible authoritates your often racist and prejudiced statements. how would you like it if some Islamic person condemned your personal morality, and that of your nation and culture, and quoted out of the Koran to justify his wild statements? what YOU do is NO DIFFERENT.

Pope Benedict Warns Against Moral Relativism
by Barbara Bradley Hagerty

The new leader of the Roman Catholic Church has denounced moral relativism, *the idea that moral principles have no objective standards*. Pope Benedict XVI has characterized it as the major evil facing the church. Some observers believe he is taking a stance in the tense cultural wars in the United States.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4618049

#3. while people in the "hard sciences" may look down their noses at those in the "soft sciences" since the latter can not come up with clear cut, numeric measurements, that IS NOT a measure of superiority.
i have studied in BOTH arenas. the soft sciences, esp. psychology, is as complex as physics, and far more difficult to master in certain cases.

one could almost argue that the hard scientists go there because their minds do not have the FLEXIBILITY to handle concepts that cannot be quantified.

That’s funny because I always argued that it’s the people who found high school algebra too abstract who went on to major in basket-weaving subjects at university. I think others perceive that too about psychology/psychologist judging by how much fun they make of Dr. Phil.

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huu76 - 2/18/2008 12:26:07 AM

0 Boost

"The concept is hardly new"

Makes more sense (but not much more) in a hybrid. When we're on hydrogen, this will be obsolete for the most part. I think it has a shelf life of about 15 more years, not really word the R&D.

More efficient regenerative braking would be better since there wouldn't be much more added weight.

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Threepoint1415926 - 2/18/2008 12:41:36 AM

+2 Boost

Why does it make any more sense in a hybrid than any other engine? Seems to me, all motors could benefit from this technology if it is fitted properly.

ghosthunter - 2/18/2008 1:16:54 AM

+2 Boost

hydrogen still have a long way to go. the current method for hydrogen production is the century old electrolyzation (maybe a typo), which consumes more energy to electrolyze hydrogen than what they can produce.
the ideal method is to use controllable nuclear fusion, which create massive electricity, nearly non-radioactive waste, and hydrogen.

i don't think we will have the controllable nuclear fusion anytime soon. Even if we have a prototype , it will still take half a century to make it practical to use.

until that day, hybrid vehicle is still the best alternative for U.S.

TheSailor - 2/18/2008 6:38:57 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Hydrogen in an internal combustion engine is just a silly gimmick! It is still so far of that by the time we have a functioning hydrogen infrastructure (which include viable production methods), fuel cells will be widely available... Also, why should we waste money on expensive hybrid systems when we have a virtually unlimited and completely renewable fuel source easily available?! To save a few bucks?! At the expense of emmiting environmentally heavy NOx's from an ICE instead of JUST water from a fuel cell... Just wait for those fanzy low temperature to come out of germany (like your beloved hydrogen ICE)!

The ONLY place where hybrid systems make ANY sence is in combination with a highly efficient diesel engine... Not a gasoline engine which isn't that efficient at all (atkinson cycle or not)...

TheSailor - 2/19/2008 6:49:53 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Hmm... Don't be so sure of that... As late as yesterday, I read an article (think it was on engadget) about scientists having developed a direct to hydrogen solar panel which basically bypassed the electrolysis and went straight for hydrogen production from solar panels...

Scientists aren't any more objective than anybody else! Some will claim that hydrogen isn't viable at all, however, most are agreeing that it is the best solution for the future and most of the hurdles with hydrogen (production, storage and consumption) are being delt with.

It is like global warming... Every now and then, you'll run into the smuck who'll claim that it is just a left'ist scam!

Chaos29 - 2/18/2008 12:26:35 AM

+1 Boost

cLUTZ is applying denial technology to improve his cars. Then he will hide it's inferiority by hiring famous people to dance around the car. He will then pay a magazine publisher to give it a title "Highest Initial Value"...then there will be a small disclaimer that once you drive off the lot and breaks, the initial value claims is then technically void.

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jgf330xi - 2/18/2008 8:56:17 AM

+2 Boost

It only has benefit to a Hybrid, since only Hybrids have batteries to store the generated energy, and then to use the engergy (electric motor). Regenerative braking is enough to recharge the battery in a non-hybrid.

Capture of the entropy (aka HEAT) caused by the explosive process is the next step in efficiency for the combustion engine.. Where 50-70% of the energy is use to make heat instead of motion.

Even with "hydrogen combustion" there is still heat genterated, so only the hydrogen fuel cell cars would NOT benefit..

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commander104 - 2/18/2008 4:35:53 PM

0 Boost

I have a suspicion that Honda and BMW are having a secret affair. New Accord bimmer-like styling, upcoming Deutsch D-TEC…I’m just saying.

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TheSailor - 2/19/2008 3:19:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Yeah... watch out what you are saying! BMW were the first to have fully variable valve opening and timing, something Honda is still struggling to do! BMW have some of the most advanced gasoline and diesel engines in the world! They utilize technologies such as piezo electric fuel injectors for Direct fuel injection (In a GASOLINE car!), electric water pumps regenerative braking among others... Making for some of the most efficient gasoline engines in the world... Honda does not have more advanced engines... Far from it! They have very reliable engines, but that doesn't make them advanced!

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TurboSpyder - 2/19/2008 7:16:53 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

BMW straight-six, V10 dominate engine awards

May9, 2007

BMW has again dominated the International Engine of the Year Awards, with its new 3.0 liter inline-six twin-turbo engine from the 335i and 5.0 liter V10 from the M5 and M6 winning top praise. BMW dominated more than half of the awards.

The results:

Best engine
BMW 3.0L Twin-turbo (335i)

Best performance engine
BMW 5.0L V10 (M5, M6)

Best fuel economy
Toyota 1.5L Hybrid Synergy drive (Prius)

Under 1.0 liter
Toyota 1.0L (Yaris)

1.0 to 1.4 liters
Volkswagen 1.4L TSI (Golf, Jetta)

1.4 to 1.8 liters
BMW-PSA 1.6LTurbo (Mini)

1.8 to 2.0 liters
Volkswagen 2.0L Turbo (Golf, Audi A3, Audi A6)

2.0 to 2.5 liters
BMW 2.5L (325i, 525i, X3, Z4)

2.5 to 3.0 liters
BMW 3L Twin-Turbo (335i)

3.0 to 4.0 liters
Porsche 3.6L Turbo (996 Turbo)

More than 4.0 liters
BMW 5.0L V10 (M5, M6)

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-straight-six-v10-sweep-engine-awards.html

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TurboSpyder - 2/19/2008 7:18:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

And I think you could have made a better argument that VW makes more advanced motors than Honda based on their International Engine of the Year awards, their Le Mans wins and prizes for innovation.

Results points

1. Volkswagen 1.4-litre FSI (TSI) (VW Golf, Touran, Jetta) 404

2. Honda Hybrid 1.3-litre IMA (Civic) 178

http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/winners_07/1_14.html

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Results points

1. Volkswagen/Audi 2-litre Turbo FSI - 249

2. BMW Diesel 2-litre - 143

3. Honda 2-litre i-VTEC (Civic Type R) - 123

4. Honda 2-litre S2000 (Europe/Asia)) - 106

http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/winners_07/18_2.html

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Volkswagen TSI Engine Technology receives two awards in Japan
Published: 11th December 2007

Volkswagen has received two of Japan’s top automobile prizes in the category of “Technology of the Year” for the development of its TSI technology. Both the CAR OF THE YEAR committee and the jury of the Automotive Researchers' and Journalists' Conference (RJC) voted to give their first prizes to Volkswagen’s innovative new engine technology.

Volkswagen models with TSI engines – the Golf GT, Golf Estate and Touran – landed well ahead of the competition in the CAR OF THE YEAR category of “Most Advanced Technology Award 2008”. The so-called COTY prizes are awarded every year by Japan’s automotive journalists.

Another cause for celebration was the decision by the jury of the RJC (comprising trade experts and journalists from Japan) to likewise award its first prize in the category of “Technology of the Year” to Volkswagen’s TSI technology. Both awards were accepted by Tsutomu Umeno, president of the Volkswagen importer in Japan, who said that, “The vote taken by these juries is a clear indication that Volkswagen technology is setting standards in Japan and will continue to do so in future.”

With its new TSI engine concept, Volkswagen has managed to use petrol-directinjection technology and innovative twin charging via compressor plus turbo charger to reduce cubic capacity to 1.4 litres, thus reducing fuel consumption and emissions. The TSI engines are available in the Golf, Touran, Jetta, Golf Plus and Golf Estate, with some 118,000 Volkswagen customers the world over already driving around with TSI technology under their bonnets.

The TSI Golf typically exemplifies how this technology enables powerful driving performance at low levels of fuel consumption. As a TSI version with 103 kW / 140 PS, it sprints to 100 km/h in just 8.8 seconds, achieves a top speed of 205 km/h and yet consumes an average of only 7.1 litres of fuel in urban traffic and a mere 5.7 litres on the cruise. All the TSI models on the market are alternatively available in combination with a direct-shift gearbox (DSG).

http://www.carpages.co.uk/volkswagen/volkswagen-tsi-11-12-07.asp

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huu76 - 2/19/2008 12:27:56 PM

+1 Boost

threepoint,
Because capturing the heat and turning it into electricity benefits hybrids, which use batteries.

ghosthunter,
You should keep up with the news.

xyzz,
I won't commnt on the University.

Look at the sun. I've said long ago that the Canadian government plans on being a leader in solar/hydrogen production and are funding several projects to help develop a cheap and reliable production process.
The test site is scheduled to be completed and in production this year.
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2004/09/14/6900043_Solar_Hydrogen/
They're also working at getting hydrogen from landfills.
http://www.world-wire.com/news/0607170001.html

Sailor,
Thanks, now go tell BMW that their Hydrogen-7 is stupid. They won't listen to me.

You're wrong, whether hybrid gas or diesel, makes no difference. Electric will be the same in both, but diesel fuel needs more oil than gasoline (the extra mileage has an equivalent oil cost). There may be a disadvantage to diesels since they're generally heavier.

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TheSailor - 2/19/2008 3:13:51 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

diesel and gasoline hybrids are not the same since diesels already have a higher efficiency than a gasoline hybrid... Adding a hybrid system would only amplify this... Therefore, it only makes sence if you couple it to a diesel engine... Comprende? Or do I need to spell it out for you (I guess I just did)...

I think I've mentioned NUMEROUS times that the Hydrogen-7 is just a silly gimmick (kind of like with the GS450h or the LS600h)... But you're the one tooting the hydrogen engine concept, so don't try to turn this one on me... One second, hydrogen engines are better than sliced bread, the next second it is just stupid? Can you decide what you actually mean...

As to the oil to diesel debate, I've already done this with you so many times that I've lost count, and I'm not going to do it again as you are as dense as a brick wall... Believe what you want... It still doesn't make it true!

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