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Is This the New 2012 Lexus Diesel Killer?
One of the readers of VWVortex has assembled quite  wealth of information concerning the upcoming Lexus variant of the popular Prius.  Below is a snippet of the details as his interprets it for you to enjoy:

Here are a months worth of scans from various magazines. Some of these scans go back to a little over a month; so sorry if some of them are a tad old - I've condensed it into a single post so I don't have to make a half-dozen different posts.


Lexus Prius/Hybrid
Source: MagX

- Prius using Toyota's MC platform has been seen testing with the Auris front noze
- Next Prius will be using the 1.8L 2ZR engine instead of 1NZ
- Lexus will have a version of the Prius which is planning on debuting during late 2010/early 2011
- The Lexus will have the roofline profile similar to that of the Prius however have distinct Lexus styling in sync with the "L-finesse" design language.
- The Lexus version would cost over $30k and obviously be equipped with luxury amenities; current internal code for the car is 812L
- Due to cost reasons the next-gen Prius should still be using NiCAD batteries. However, Toyota has had a Lithium-ion Vitz hybrid in limited production for awhile, and the Lexus version may be equipped with Li-On batteries due to the higher selling price would allow enough margin to incorporate the more expensive batteries.
 

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Is This the New 2012 Lexus Diesel Killer?



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WhelanWhelan - 4/10/2008 4:37:17 PM
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I guarantee they will sell this car. They already pretty much own the hybrid luxury market currently. And since Audi, BMW, Merc. are going diesel and Caddy is going hybrid like Lexus, should be interesting to see how it holds up. Seems like it will be a Prius cousin with some luxury treatments. And I'm sure people who already own a Prius would not mind moving upscale. But with the Prius already a pricy car, I wonder what this will set you back in the pocket

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pacotacololpacotacolol - 4/10/2008 8:37:43 PMView My AgentSpace
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*Lexus fan boy on*
This car is the cure to Lexus, i don't care about the price, i want it!!!
*Lexus fan boy off*

What the hell


ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/11/2008 2:11:48 AM
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lexus has NO NEED to be "cured" of anything.

it is one of the most successful new marques EVER.

what they have accomplished in a mere 19 years has only been exceeded by ford in the early decades of the 1900s. (with a near virgin market for autos, vs. today's MATURE and slowing market. except in china and india.)




WillisWillis - 4/11/2008 5:32:51 AM
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What Lexus has achieved is the result of too much marketing and a wealthy financial backer like Toyota that could afford to take losses early on in order to gain market share.

Please stop overrating the "Look what Lexus has done in 20 years..." cliche.


lexusrox123lexusrox123 - 4/11/2008 8:50:52 AM
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jealousy is never good...


vladyxavladyxa - 4/10/2008 4:40:38 PM
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It's amazing some people can read that.

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Homer008Homer008 - 4/11/2008 1:09:30 AM
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thinly disguised? Have you seen both cars side by side or have you actually driven both cars to make such statement? Because, I have. My conclusion lead me to believe Camry is closer to Avalon and the Avalon is little brother of ES. ES to LS after that. Anyhow, the main point is how folks like you making such an infantile statement. And, I'm not saying you are wrong..its just weirdly put.

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bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 11:01:21 AMView My AgentSpace
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nicehomer, you are clueless...

The ES350 is identical to the toyota camry.. It has the same platform, engine, body parts, dimensions, etc.

The only difference between the ES350 and the Camry is the interior of the ES350 has a little more cheapo "bling, bling" factor so that they can sell it for $15,000 to 20,000 more than a identical Camry..

You need to do some more research before making comments like that one.

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DieselRulesDieselRules - 4/12/2008 10:55:25 AM
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bmw.... You're missing the biggest distinction between Toyota and Lexus ... a Lexus is a Toyota that's built in Japan.
With the currency exchange, it costs a lot more.
But it has the quality that Toyota owners "think" they are getting.

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 4:43:04 PM
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the purple teletubby is going to be the spokesperson.

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theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 4/10/2008 4:48:31 PM
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Talk about badge engineering!

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AMiodynskiAMiodynski - 4/10/2008 5:12:42 PM
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Lexus has built a small car since the IS300....


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 4/10/2008 8:07:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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The Prius is about a foot shorter than the IS.

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Atenza28Atenza28 - 4/10/2008 10:02:32 PMView My AgentSpace
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Would lexus be diluting their brand like so many say BMW is with the 1-series, Audi with the A1, and Mercedes with the A-klasse??

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WillisWillis - 4/11/2008 5:35:24 AM
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The European marques are not diluting their brand image at all. There's a growing market for small premium cars based on lack of parking spaces and high fuel costs. There are people who still want to drive a luxury brand but not have the hassle of poor gas mileage etc. The marques are simply responding to a market demand.

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w209w114w209w114 - 4/10/2008 4:49:53 PMView My AgentSpace
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Who drew that? A fourth grader?

Looks like a cheap drawing of a wild guess combining the current prius and Lexus IS. Lame

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w209w114w209w114 - 4/10/2008 4:50:34 PMView My AgentSpace
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Tha being said, I think the supposed Lexus entry level hybrid will look a lot better than this.


CarboyCarboy - 4/10/2008 6:53:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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I've seen better from two year olds!


AnthonyAnthony - 4/10/2008 4:55:27 PM
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Renderings are always more unattractive than the actual products.

It is interesting though since many North American executives have sworn up and down that there will be no small Lexus, but clearly the Japanese higher-ups have other plans.

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 5:08:55 PM
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"Lexus doesn't sell small cars because they have to be priced so low that they aren't worthy of being badged with a luxury marque."

es250?

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 5:21:20 PM
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but it sure wasn't "worthy of being badged with a luxury marque"

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 5:29:35 PM
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but the european cars were not given the fancy badge as a marketing gimmick. they were just less expensive cars that happened to be built by makers of luxury cars.

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 5:35:25 PM
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what makes you think they won't go into the small car market? they follow everywhere else the germans go. it would be foolish for them to not show what they do best: produce small economic cars.

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 5:37:09 PM
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you don't think that new toyota/scoobie-do collaboration will find a lexus badge on it at some point?

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answeranswer - 4/10/2008 6:31:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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Cool!

I was hoping to read some Europeans (and thanks to Jesus, South Americans) know better than the US posts!

Cars like the BMW 318ti and MB's crappy C class hatchback would most definately be sold under a different brand if their respecitive builders offered it.

So what Lexus/Toyota has a different branding strategy. It doesn't make their cars any better or worse than the other guys, and it certainly doesn't make buyers of their products fools either.

Come on Christ! For someone who is supposed to be all knowing, you have quite a few things to learn.

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bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/10/2008 7:32:08 PMView My AgentSpace
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God, Lexus makes the most FUGLY cars !!!

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 4/10/2008 8:09:49 PMView My AgentSpace
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Xero, you have such an American mentality that it's ridiculous.

Go drive an A3 or 1 Series for a day. That would certainly make for a change of tune. "Small" does NOT (repeat, does NOT) have to = crappy or cheap. I admit, there have been some mediocre Merc small cars in the past, but generally Audi and BMW compacts are every bit as high-quality as their more expensive counterparts. They're more fun, more luxurious, more stylish and more exclusive than their lesser-branded competition.

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1995e341995e34 - 4/10/2008 11:19:53 PM
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just because they haven't yet made their own 1-series doesn't mean its not in "their mindset".

the only part of their "mindset" that has prevented them from producing smaller cars is that they want to wait and see what kind of market their is for them. in other words, they want the germans to pioneer the market AS WELL AS the engineering front.



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WillisWillis - 4/11/2008 5:43:27 AM
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XeroKool is such an idiot at times.

Maybe you should visit Europe at some point because it will open your eyes. Cars like the BMW 1 series, MB A class or Audi A3 not "mainstream" cars. They're more expensive, come better equipped, offer better safety features and distinguish themselves greatly from true mainstream subcompact cars.

There is nothing brand diluting about this because these cars have actually enhanced the reputation of their respective makers. Lexus cars in Europe are seen as gas guzzlers (even their hybrids). Lexus offers no "realistic engine choices" in Europe. All they do is offer fuel inefficient engines that are fast but get poor fuel economy. And that's the problem. Luxury isn't all about being wasteful and having the most horsepower under the hood.

You're stuck with the old school American mentality that luxury is all about being wasteful and big. It isn't. There are many wealthy people in Europe that could easily say afford an S65 AMG or an S600, but the're realistic and they go for an S320 CDI. There are many people who could afford a 335i but they feel that a 318i is just as luxurious and gets them from A to B in a sporty and stylish fashion. And a 318i isn't even that slow. I drove a rental 318i when I was in France a few months ago and it was quick.

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bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 11:08:44 AMView My AgentSpace
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Another lobotomized comment from the "kraut_master2" aka numerous other profiles.

If there is a dollar to be made Lexus will do whatever it takes to get it, just like the other car companies. The only difference is Lexus can dig into the Prius and Corolla parts bin to produce it and quadruple the price for the same product.. ES350=Camry for example.. Sorry to offend you if I did kraut_master2, I know you drive a 2002 Camry, oh I mean ES300.

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AudiphileAudiphile - 4/10/2008 5:28:30 PM
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I hate to break it to guys like GoObama08. I have looked at this rendering of the Lexus hybrid and photos of the current Prius, and I have discovered that Toyota basically copied the styling of the Audi A2 when they designed the current Prius. The Audi A2 was sold in Europe from 1999 to 2005. The current Prius was introduced in 2004. However, the A2 looked a little better than the Prius. So much for Toyota originality!

Due to its aluminum spaceframe, the A2 weighed less than 2,200 lbs. The handling was considered excellent. Depending on the choice of engine, the AVERAGE fuel mileage ranged from 47 to 78 mpg. (Several diesel and gasoline engines were available.) However, the A2's styling was very much "avant-garde" for its time, its aluminum spaceframe was expensive, and Audi's marketing effort was anemic for such a radical new car. As a result, sales were disappointing. One could say the A2 was "ahead of its time".

On the other hand, Toyota's marketing effort for the Prius has been superb. (Soaring fuel prices and media adulation haven't hurt either.) As a result, the Prius has sold well, far better than other companies' hybrid offering.

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AudiphileAudiphile - 4/10/2008 5:31:48 PM
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Oops - GoObama is the idiotic fan boy. GoObama08 is much more rational. My bad.


DieselRulesDieselRules - 4/12/2008 11:05:35 AM
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The Prius copied the European A2/A-class concept of making a tall sedan to compress the length, and maximize aerodynamics with a single wedge (curved-wedge) shape.
Toyota made it uglier, but its still the same concept.

And the A2 got mileage that Prius hasn't achieved yet (78 MPG with some owners reporting mileage into the 90+ MPG range)


AudiphileAudiphile - 4/12/2008 2:02:59 PM
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Dear krautmaster,

I stand by my original comments.

By the way, I did not use the word "study" or "studied" anywhere in my blog entry. Thus not only are you cruel, you are wrong as well.



autoproautopro - 4/10/2008 5:44:15 PMView My AgentSpace
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The stand alone hybrid will be sold in 2009.It will not be on the prius platform.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 4/10/2008 8:10:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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And you know this... how?


autoproautopro - 4/11/2008 4:40:39 PMView My AgentSpace
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Inside info,that's why I'm the autopro and your a rookie.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 4/12/2008 1:23:48 PMView My AgentSpace
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I think you're stupid.


autoproautopro - 4/12/2008 7:07:59 PMView My AgentSpace
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S4 ithink your mamma's stupid,for giving birth to you!! LOL!!!!!!!


lexusrox123lexusrox123 - 4/10/2008 6:28:16 PM
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oh gosh, I hope the lexus hybrid wont look like that picture!!!
looks like the yaris, prius, and the IS mashed into one (ugly) car

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autoproautopro - 4/12/2008 7:03:34 PMView My AgentSpace
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Yea I'm dumb like a fox.


CarboyCarboy - 4/10/2008 6:53:01 PMView My AgentSpace
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chewychewy - 4/10/2008 7:03:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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Why not just title, is this the Lexus version of the Toyota Prius?

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EL34EL34 - 4/10/2008 7:20:51 PM
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Here's another one of those Lexus' that will be Blimp and Driver's vehicle of the year.

:popcorn:

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bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 11:20:12 AMView My AgentSpace
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Hey Kraut aka XeroKool, or whoever else you are on here, why don't you go out to your 2002 Lexus ES300 and play with the shiny, cheap, plastic buttons lifted off a Camry and Corolla to amuse yourself and stop picking on the guys that make intelligent comments on this site.

You need to be on the show "The Biggest Loser", but in your case it won't be for weight loss, it will be for "Your Life"..............


CLK63BlackSeriesCLK63BlackSeries - 4/10/2008 7:21:20 PMView My AgentSpace
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For once I have to say... Lexus might have something with this one.

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CLK63BlackSeriesCLK63BlackSeries - 4/11/2008 2:49:09 AMView My AgentSpace
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And since when are storms good?


993Turbo993Turbo - 4/11/2008 7:55:56 AM
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The ES 300 was a bomb.


bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 11:14:32 AMView My AgentSpace
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Hey Kraut, you better check your figures again.. Lexus only sells really well in the USA.. It tanks in other countries when compared to BMW, MB and Audi... You have a pathetic life, XeroKool. Sorry, I can't keep all your profiles straight because you have so many on here.


MartyMooseMartyMoose - 4/13/2008 11:33:09 PM
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Hey BMWman , News Flash. . . . . Lexus was invented primarily for the American Market,and it Dominates it right now. thats why up until recently Lexus wasn't its own brand in Europe


bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/10/2008 8:40:39 PMView My AgentSpace
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XeroKool, you are the most illogical poster and poser I have ever had the displeasure of reading on this site.

Lexus will add a little more "bling, bling" to the exterior and interior of the Toyota Prius and charge a $15,000 to $20,000 premium for $1,000 more "bling".

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AudiphileAudiphile - 4/10/2008 8:54:33 PM
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You have obviously never read any of GoObama's entries! :-)

Believe it or not, XeroKool does have his lucid moments. GoObama, on the other hand, is a full-time straightjacket model!


bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 11:23:42 AMView My AgentSpace
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And you are XeroKool with numerous other profiles on here.

You respond to your own comments to boost yourself and make us think their are others on this site that agree with your turd ridden statements.


huu76huu76 - 4/10/2008 10:29:28 PM
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Hey Jesus, this is God.
If the Prius thing is priced above $30,000, that means it's priced against the IS and 328i.

The current Prius is already priced against the 128i/A3/B-class.

Atenza,
Diluting the brand would be what the 1-series is doing by going below $30K.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 4/11/2008 12:19:44 AMView My AgentSpace
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?

A fully-loaded Prius is about the same price as a 128i with 2 options... are you serious?


ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/11/2008 2:27:58 AM
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kraut master-- he may have been TRYING to insult you personally.

TP used to be a bmw fanbois before he ran into too much flak in response to his dumb comments. so now he PRETENDS he actually likes toyotas. but it's just a DISGUISE for his basic SOURkraut INsensibilities. and insecurity.




ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/11/2008 2:31:03 AM
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now if his new name were ToiletPaper 'stead of ToyotaPower, it would be more appropriate! ;)




ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/12/2008 7:42:28 AM
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well, you only display your IGNORANT RACISM calling huu a 'typical chinaboy.'

the chinese are the MOST ADVANCED and oldest CONTINUOUS civilization. ancient Egypt is an older civilization, but it has not had the continuity that china has.

among other things, they invented gunpowder and paper money. one of the greatest historical ironies is that WESTERN countries have taken those same two inventions to the WORST MISAPPLICATIONS: colonization/wars and wild crazy ASTRONOMICAL monetary INFLATION madness.

the West could learn a LOT from the Chinese even in today's world. (as the Koreans, Japanese, and others have.)

take ethnic Chinese and pump Western culture and education into 'em as you see in Asian Americans and Asian Canadians, and WATCH OUT!!!




ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/12/2008 8:03:34 AM
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if anyone has the slightest doubt about this, just go and hang around your local university. you will see FAR MORE asians in PhD programs, proportionately.

yesterday on NPR's Science Friday program, two Asian professors were being interviewed. both with BREAKTHROUGH revelations at the cutting edge of their respective specialties.

the Euro car makers are quaking in their boots now, contemplating FUTURE offerings from japan. (detroit has already just accepted asian technical superiority, basing their strategy on mere PRICE/ content ratios and styling.)

just wait 'till the KOREAN carmakers come up to speed, as they follow japan's auto industry. then not too far behind, the CHINESE will come rumbling down! (GM already sources a lot of engines from china.)




Designer1Designer1 - 4/11/2008 3:16:13 AM
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I'll always say this; hybrids are OVERPRICED for what they offer, so they're worthless.

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ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/12/2008 7:49:36 AM
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LOL! Prius is FAR from being overpriced. you could almost make an argument that Lexi hybrids are overpriced. but that charge totally FADES AWAY when you consider how much EURO iron is way overpriced for what you get. $30,000 and up for FOUR bangers!!????

THAT is the number two reason Lexus has totally overhauled the german trio in NA sales, despite the latter having had almost a half-CENTURY head start.

the number ONE reason, is far superior reliability. (heck even ordinary toyotas outshine the euro brands in this respect. Lexi are in a class all ALONE.)




Htay7500Htay7500 - 4/15/2008 5:51:48 PM
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I'll take walking and public transportation over a prius to get around a city. why? less complexity and pain, and makes a lot of sense.


Chaos29Chaos29 - 4/11/2008 3:58:24 AM
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Solara+Prius ugliness really hurts my eyes.

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stash84stash84 - 4/12/2008 8:46:17 PM
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yeah..that solara is in my top 10 (ugliest cars)




DasAutoDasAuto - 4/11/2008 4:52:28 AM
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No thanks, i'll stick to my diesel, hey someone out there will buy this and good on them.

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JUGNUJUGNU - 4/11/2008 6:50:05 AMView My AgentSpace
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bad photoshop. Looks like R class.

JUGNU

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MichaelTaylorMichaelTaylor - 4/11/2008 7:49:39 AM
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First of all Lexus is an established and well respected global premium brand. It is probably the most prestigeous too for the sole reason that they don't offer wimpy engines and small cars and each car is fully loaded with the best of the best of current technology.

Lexus would never make such a hideously ugly car. Every Lexus up to date has been a work of art, a masterpiece in the spirit of the grand Italian masters of the Renaissance if you will.

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MercedesMercedes - 4/11/2008 8:01:28 AM
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What bullshit. Lexus isn't a global anything. When you can't outsell the competition in your homeland you aren't anything near being prestigious. Each car is loaded with technology because their drive and look like crap so you have to make up for it somewhere. Lexus has had plenty of hideously ugly cars so what is one more going to do? Wimpy engines? Must by Lexus can't sell squat in Europe because they are too stupid to see that all those wimpy engines are what European masses prefer, especially diesels. When is Lexus going to realize that? Lexus is as prestigious as their made up name implies. A "global premium brand" that can't sell well anywhere but one market. A joke is what they are.


KingerKinger - 4/11/2008 8:11:31 AM
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Hmmm, its just so hard to tell who's real and who isn't on here anymore, but i'm going to hazard a guess that Michael Taylor isn't real...


simmonsdpsimmonsdp - 4/11/2008 5:15:59 PM
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M Taylor, are you related to GoObama????


4wheelsnme4wheelsnme - 4/12/2008 8:05:59 PM
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never read so much BULLSHIT alltogether!!!!You certainly don´t have a clue of what a Masterpiece is... Man You are pathetic....


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 4/11/2008 11:32:42 AM
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i hope not.

and what's new about this vehicle?
why is it taking 3+ years to rebadge a prius as a lexus?

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AMiodynskiAMiodynski - 4/11/2008 12:02:32 PM
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Lexus is not just going to Re-Badge a Prius. Lexus is going to build a car similar to a Prius, meaning Hybrid only vehicle, use the new better batteries, and be out in the Spring of 09.

As far as an ES being the "same" as a Camry, that is not 100% true. The ES has better, thicker sheetmetal, better insolation, of course more options. There is not 1 ES built here in the US, all are built in Japan. The engine is re-tuned for more torque and horsepower, suspension is adjusted for a Lexus ride too.

Like I stated before, if you don't know what your talking about, don't say nothing at all!!!




bmwman1963bmwman1963 - 4/11/2008 12:23:40 PMView My AgentSpace
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In other words AMiodynski, The ES is 95% Camry..

The navigation system, leather interior, body parts, platform, and almost every other option is lifted right off of the Camry.

I owned a ES300 and my friends top of the line Camry was almost identical to it. They drove the same and as far as insulation and thicker sheetmetal, bullsh_t!

I was embarrassed that I spent so much more money just to get a rebadged Toyota Camry. The only major difference between the two was the Mark Levinson sound system, which did not sound much different than the Camry's top of the line system.

ES300 or the new ES350, save the money a get a Camry, cause they are both one and the same....


silver1silver1 - 4/11/2008 1:29:54 PM
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"bmwman1963"

In 2005, Lexus completed a full organizational separation from parent company Toyota, with dedicated Lexus Design, engineering, training, and manufacturing centers working exclusively for the luxury division.

Every single new redesign Lexus model after the year 2005, is different.

The new 2007 ES350 does not share the same platform as it did in previous years with the Camry.

Just Compare the 2007 ES350 and the 2007 Camry. nothing alike...


FactsRuleFactsRule - 4/11/2008 1:47:36 PM
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Yeah right silver1.. My neighbor has a new Lexus ES350 and we compared it to a new Camry at the local dealership and ta-dah, 95% the same car.

Even looked underneath and found the same components. You need to do some real life comparisons my friend.

Do you honestly think that Toyota would change the cash cow it has in the Lexus ES350? Why would it spend extra money when they can dip into the Camry's parts bin? Most people buy Lexus just for the name and that is a proven fact.. Numerous studies have been done by consumer research group and guess what? Lexus was chosen purely on the basis of marketing and presumed luxury status.


silver1silver1 - 4/11/2008 3:15:44 PM
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"FactsRule"

Their not the same parts, they maybe made by the same manufacturer but their design differently. You might see the name for example "Denso" that supply supply Toyota and Lexus parts, one is design for Toyota the other is design for Lexus, their not identical twins, they may be brother and sister since the same people make them.

So therefor there not sharing the same parts. Because same means identical 100%. The previous models ES did but not the new 2007 ones....


ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 4/12/2008 8:18:52 AM
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this is true. the japanese makers DO PUT IN better parts in the premium lines.

my brother had to replace a starter motor on wifey's Infiniti I30 (early '90s model). he got a Robt. BOSCH starter as used on the Nissan Maxima. NOWHERE as good as the original Denso starter. it failed in less than a year, and he had to replace the starter AGAIN.

the REASON toyotas get to 17 years vs. 5-7 for everyone else before a given model year has 100 problems/100 cars, is simply use of BETTER PARTS.

TYPICAL auto company, due to the way bids are considered for outsourced parts, put together cars with THE CHEAPEST PARTS obtainable. toyota/lexus needless to say, is NOT "typical.'








silver1silver1 - 4/11/2008 12:22:54 PM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
MattBMattB - 4/11/2008 1:21:22 PM
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This thing will likely sell well regardless of how close to the Prius it is. I wouldn't buy one, but I'm sure a lot of people will. Looking like a Prius might actually make it more popular, because people who like to show off how "green" they are like how the Prius is instantly recognizable.

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AMiodynskiAMiodynski - 4/11/2008 3:29:32 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost