Lexus LS fails Auto Motor und Sport braking test - AGAIN

Newsbot submitted on 04/10/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 1:56 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[233] user comments | category: Misc News

Tags: Lexus LS fails Auto Motor und Sport braking test - AGAIN

Lexus LS fails Auto Motor und Sport braking test - AGAIN

The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport is reporting that a revised Lexus LS has failed the braking test a second time. A few weeks ago the new Toyota Landcruiser V8 Diesel also performed disastrously in this area. Poor braking and stability issues have long affected Lexus and Toyota models in various European roadtests.

Toyota recently sent Auto Motor und Sport a heavily revised Lexus LS and Toyota Landcruiser V8. The Landcruiser showed improved stopping power but still displays heavy fading. Despite a revised braking system, the Lexus LS tested displayed the same weak braking characteristics as the first LS tested needing over 150 meters to come to a halt. The previous LS tested needed precisely 150 meters to come to a stop. Directional stability was also rated as poor when the brakes were engaged under emergency condition with the LS displaying a tendency to yaw.

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xdrive_ - 4/10/2008 2:30:52 PM

+10 Boost

Perhaps less aggressive braking ability enhances the chaffeur experience. The LS600 did win that prestigous chaffeur car of the year award. HA!

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TurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 2:40:56 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Good one. :)

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w209w114 - 4/10/2008 2:48:50 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

They'll hide in shame. Or blame it on the Germans, like always.

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silver1 - 4/10/2008 3:41:53 PM

-10 Boost

And this will not stop Lexus one single bit from them Being the most Peffered #1 Luxury U.S. Brand. It's something that Americans like about Lexus and it sure ain't no darn Sport Brake.

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1995e34 - 4/10/2008 4:52:18 PM

0 Boost

this car sucks.

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Kinger - 4/11/2008 5:26:40 AM

+2 Boost

"It's something that Americans like about Lexus and it sure ain't no darn Sport Brake."

lol, sums it up perfectly for me...

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germanautoaddict - 4/11/2008 7:53:29 AM

+2 Boost

They don't care about the brakes for cars that come to the U.S. They market for the OLD who do not drive over 50 mph on the freeway. Anything can stop fast at those speeds. Face it, the germans build a car right in every category.

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silver1 - 4/11/2008 12:25:21 PM

0 Boost

"germanautoaddict"

And What category is that?

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david999 - 4/11/2008 11:39:37 PM

-1 Boost

Don't the badge whores ever get tired of
trying to belittle a good car like the LS?
The brakes work just like they are supposed to on this high-end LUXURY sedan.

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DieselRules - 4/12/2008 2:11:33 AM

+3 Boost

So, at the price of an LS they're supposed to work poorly?
You're saying Lexus are SUPPOSED to be UNSAFE?

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autopro - 4/12/2008 2:46:53 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

They are so afarid Lexus will take over in europe,their writing lies.

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Jagexpert2 - 4/12/2008 8:02:00 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Actually the Jaguar XJ and the Lexus won. HA HA

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Jagexpert2 - 4/12/2008 8:02:30 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Actually the Jaguar XJ and the Lexus won. HA HA

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Jagexpert2 - 4/12/2008 8:04:50 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Actually the Jaguar XJ and The Lexus won COTY

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jaber - 4/13/2008 3:32:52 PM

+1 Boost

see this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7jDL-Vj3Dgk

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AdHominem - 4/10/2008 2:34:41 PM

-14 Boost

There are so many Toyota and Lexus articles this week that Autospies must be on their payroll.

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AdHominem - 4/10/2008 2:35:19 PM

-7 Boost

Sorry, I just realized that all of the articles are negative. Oops.

macker83 - 4/10/2008 2:35:16 PM

Show Comment -21 Boost

Auto_expert - 4/10/2008 2:40:02 PM

+6 Boost

How dare they shine a light on any chinks in the armor for Lexus! Damn, now the toothpaste is out of the tube!

4x4rules - 4/10/2008 6:14:17 PM

+3 Boost

"Poor braking and stability issues have long affected Lexus and Toyota models in various European roadtests." OUCH. Americans buy them for their soft mushy ride, cupholders, and parking help.

theoptimisticpessimist - 4/10/2008 2:36:54 PM

-6 Boost

If they were, would the post this article?

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FactsRule - 4/10/2008 2:37:19 PM

+1 Boost

Come on Lexus fan bois lets hear from you....

The Germans are waiting for a response.... LOL

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993Turbo - 4/11/2008 6:37:53 AM

0 Boost

Who really needs brakes anyway?

bestofallcadillac - 4/11/2008 1:46:54 PM

+2 Boost

Yes that is amazing, Toyoto-Lexus buyers can give it however they cannot take it they hide.

Lexus and Toyota has been fooling the American public for to long now it is time they autos show the real colors.

Lexus has to be the most boring car out there today. style looks like a Grandma's car. What are they trying to do compete in a sports car I mean have they ever even made a sports car, I mean a real sports car!

TurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 2:40:09 PMView My AgentSpace

Show Comment -16 Boost

07G35J - 4/10/2008 3:12:22 PM

+12 Boost

"Brakes aren't all that important in the stop-and-go driving of Japanese cities so lay off"

The keyword in your statement is "STOP", and you say brakes are not important. You wanna clear that up for us, buddy? How can braking not be important in STOP-and-go traffic, when you DO have to STOP?

TurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 3:31:25 PMView My AgentSpace

Show Comment -15 Boost

notafanboy - 4/10/2008 3:32:28 PM

+13 Boost

The "GO" (as in acceleration) is less important in stop-and-go traffic. Brakes are an important safety feature in all situations

TurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 3:35:38 PMView My AgentSpace

Show Comment -22 Boost

xdrive_ - 4/10/2008 3:37:21 PM

+19 Boost

I would want my brakes to WORK in 100% of all situations...but maybe that's just me.

TurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 3:40:24 PMView My AgentSpace

Show Comment -27 Boost

07G35J - 4/10/2008 4:19:57 PM

+13 Boost

Call me crazy, but I would like my brakes to work in 100% of all situations, too. If that makes me a "nancy boy" like you called xdrive, then fine. But at least, with reliable brakes, I'll be a LIVE nancy boy.

07G35J - 4/10/2008 4:28:20 PM

+6 Boost

Oops... I meant "a living nancy boy". I'll be alive.

IVANURI97 - 4/10/2008 4:38:57 PM

+7 Boost

Great performing brakes are a key element to any car! If I paid for a car that cost this much, I would want it to at least be comparible to it's competition, some of which have been around in current form for 2-3-4-5 years. It also hurts when economy cars, or just cars that cost much less, perform better in braking.

no1listensanyway - 4/10/2008 2:41:14 PM

+5 Boost

Didn't the LX/Land Cruiser also have some serious brake issues?

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fuzion - 4/10/2008 2:44:57 PM

+7 Boost

Did you even read the article or did you just post for the hell of it?

w209w114 - 4/10/2008 2:48:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

A great car is nothing without good brakes.

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1995e34 - 4/10/2008 4:54:55 PM

-2 Boost

and a so-so car is garbage without.

evilm - 4/10/2008 3:07:59 PM

+4 Boost

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. YOU CAN TELL ITS MADE BY TOYOTA. TOYOTAS LAST FOREVER, HA HA HA HA HA.

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ceric - 4/10/2008 3:24:44 PM

+10 Boost

So brake fading does not matter when you going down a hill?
I learn something new everyday.

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FactsRule - 4/10/2008 3:49:03 PM

+5 Boost

XeroKool, you have to be one of the dumbest people on the planet!

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bmwman1963 - 4/10/2008 4:29:36 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Well it appears that most of the people on this site agree with me XeroKool.. You have been consistently deboosted on almost every thread you have commented on this site.

You haven't any facts that make sense in this universe where the laws of physics apply..

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kablaam - 4/10/2008 6:16:38 PM

-2 Boost

xero: Yes - engine braking does work at certain gradients, though the hills where I live(and certainly other hills/hilly roads elsewhere in the world), if you rely on engine braking and not your actual brakes, you're dead.

Please rethink your blanket statement.

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4x4rules - 4/10/2008 6:17:34 PM

0 Boost

so your mommy lets you drive her lexus on the streets of san francisco......must be an automatic........250 is my guess.

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4x4rules - 4/10/2008 6:19:23 PM

0 Boost

Oh wait I forgot..........they are all automatics, and only some of them apparently have brakes....

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Tuscani27 - 4/10/2008 6:21:05 PM

0 Boost

XeroK00L (names fits you well looking at your boost count):
Yea, I am sure everyone engine brakes their Lexus LS...in San Francisco... I mean come on, I am not a german or japanese fanboy and I see how idiotic your points and comments are.

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Tuscani27 - 4/10/2008 6:38:53 PM

-1 Boost

I never said that engine braking was idiotic. You are saying that as long as you engine brake this car, the brakes will be fine. WHO DOES THIS IN THIS CAR? No one. There isn't really any point with arguing with you since you do not seem to understand reality. Oh, and by the way, if you remember, I stated I was not a german or japanese fanboy. People keep pointing out the obvious and you keep shooting it down. Now, please tell me what color the sky is?

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FactsRule - 4/10/2008 7:05:45 PM

+5 Boost

XeroKool only lives in the Universe of Physics where The Transformers and The Power Rangers exist, but for him it is reality.. He has no clue about how important braking is for an automobile, especially a high performance car. Engine Braking my Ass.. Tell that to me when I want to come to a stop at 100 mph plus!!!! What a Tard, "XeroKool" is..........

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kablaam - 4/11/2008 1:47:55 PM

+4 Boost

Xero: Please reread my statement, I never said the engine will die, I said YOU WILL DIE. Wow, I never knew toyota/lexus' engine braking can take the place of the actual brakes.

You can honestly tell me that you navigate your so called "steep San Francisco" hills without utilizing the actual brakes? You are totally delusional.

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bestofallcadillac - 4/11/2008 1:59:57 PM

+4 Boost

Toyota Lexus buyers dont be fooled any longer They are building a so so car and they all look the same.

I cannot even tell the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota except for the name badge.

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BMW4me4ever - 4/10/2008 3:35:16 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

xero ... it is never good when you rely mostly on your engine for braking purposes. Havent you ever been to driving school? That is what the brakes are for. Otherwise, why even have them and lets go to back to the stoneage era. Brake fade effects every aspect of braking. What about people that have to make a panic stop cause a kid crossed in front of them? What are we supposed to say, " It is the engines fault casue Xero said that I should use my engine for most of the stopping power "

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4x4rules - 4/10/2008 6:21:47 PM

0 Boost

xerokoolaid:

ESL toll free number: 1-800-dum-bass

sigmabody - 4/10/2008 9:06:02 PM

+5 Boost

For reference (as a side note), the LS does do engine braking automatically when you brake on steeper declines. That said, it's debatable which is better, since brakes last much longer these days, and are much cheaper to replace than engines.

Anecdotally, I have never felt any problems with brake fade in my LS over 4 years of ownership, but I don't take it to the track regularly either. I would say Lexus buyers should certainly be wary of these potential shortcomings, and evaluate their importance in relation to how much track time they expect to log in their new full-size luxury sedan.

abcd - 4/10/2008 3:36:13 PM

-11 Boost

in 2007-06 best motoring issue was lexus ls460 and german competitors brake test on the curve that ls460 won with is more important i think than fading .

ps:I don`t like auto motor und sport since i`ve read there about 2 mounths ago that audi and bmw are pioneering torque vectoring systems with isn`t truth(they are ignorants or liars , I don`t know) .

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xdrive_ - 4/10/2008 3:52:26 PM

+8 Boost

Do you have a link for this test?

FactsRule - 4/10/2008 3:52:35 PM

+2 Boost

At least the German's prefer the German brand just like the Japanese. LOL

The Japanese don't even like Lexus!!! They prefer German brands.. I guess there is something to be said for the over engineering Germans..

bestofallcadillac - 4/11/2008 2:18:02 PM

+1 Boost

How crazy you toyota lexus owners cannot take anything bad said about your cars even if it is true! this article is to show what is to come with the lexus and Toyota since they are not building that great of car! I have friends that use to be the lexus buyers however because of all the problems they had with their lexus cars they now own a Cadillac and a Mercedes and they are much happy with both their Cadillac and their Mercedes.

DieselRules - 4/12/2008 2:32:25 AM

+5 Boost

When the Lexus ES300 came out (remember the original, bloated-up Camry with a lift-kit?) one prominent US Auto Magazine reported something to the effect that "touching the brake pedal on a corner at speed is taking your life in your hands".
Not much has changed.
I admire Toyotas cost-engineering.
They can take German inventions and reduce the cost greatly with similar results much of the time.
What I don't like about Toyota is cutting safety features, and brakes are a chronic problem.
They covered up the defective master cylinders in the Camry's 15 years ago. (Service Manager: "We've never seen a brake light come on on its own, but we'll look into it" meanwhile they have a pile of replacement master cylinders in back to keep up ... who knows how many folks died when their brakes failed)
They still build Camry's with wimpier brakes than GM would put on a bottom-end Cavalier.
They won't replace brakes worn out within a year on new cars because "that's normal" (my '98 Beetle went 200,000 kms or 125,000 miles on the original brakes and our A6's get a few years on a set ... with hi-speed mountain driving in BC)

The Japanese fan-boys can't understand that some people don't like a company that puts profits ahead of the safety of its customers.
They say a Mercedes Car's most important job is to keep the owner alive long enough to buy another Mercedes.
But if your customers are as old as Lexus' then they aren't likely to be shopping for a next car anyway!

DieselRules - 4/12/2008 10:34:09 AM

+4 Boost

Meant RX300, not ES300 .... talk about Toyota brakes just gets my blood boiling!

abcd - 4/12/2008 12:41:20 PM

-3 Boost

bestofallcadillac:
"How crazy you toyota lexus owners cannot take anything bad said about your cars even if it is true!"
i think you cannot take anything good:
"OK found the video here. Enjoy.
Part 1 (traction control test):
http://www.56.com/u21/v_MTU0MzQ1MDY.html
Part 2 (panic braking test):
http://www.56.com/u49/v_MTU0MzQ0NDY.html"
aren`t this facts like this from auto motor und sport?

BigShow50 - 4/10/2008 3:43:42 PM

-7 Boost

At this point Lexus should just contract their brakes with Brembo wether it's the big sedans such as GS & LS, along with their large suvs' GX,LX. It should solve the problem...

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Agent009 - 4/10/2008 3:48:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

At least for cars marketing in countries with no speed limits ion the highway. Brakes are a very big issue to them.

You have to put it in the proper context, You gotta stop that massive thing from 150 mph.

simmonsdp - 4/10/2008 4:14:49 PM

+8 Boost

Yes on the autobahn brakes are more important than horsepower......

ErichHartmann - 4/10/2008 4:29:05 PM

+5 Boost

The high speeds allowed on the German Autobahns call for good stopping power in any situation. Which leaves me wondering how the EU and the German government itself could allow the Chinese to come in with their Brilliance "deathtrap" cars.

Agent009 - 4/10/2008 4:37:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

A few feet in braking may not mean much, until you use 6 more than the car in front of you.

Last time I looked there is some sort of law in physics about two object occupying the same space.

Or maybe that was in Battlestar Gallactica or something?

Agent009 - 4/10/2008 4:57:43 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

LOL, is that world here or in Germany. Because the world they are referring to is Germany not here.

DieselRules - 4/12/2008 2:41:32 AM

+1 Boost

The problem isn't what Toyota CAN do.
They can build bigger brakes ... that's simple.
Its what they WILL do.
They won't spend the money.
You, as a customer, are of no concern to them once you buy the car.
That's why Toyota wouldn't issue recalls.
Image is more important than customer safety.

Its refreshing to see that they now respect customers enough that they've started issuing recalls on the defects (which ALL cars have, just like every house you buy, etc.)

agent507 - 4/15/2008 1:26:35 AM

+2 Boost

xerokool,

i have often been reading your comments, sometimes i do agree, in most times i disagree. But your comments about "bad brakes aren´t such a big problem because blablabla" made me sincerely hope that you will never be the driver behind me, not being able to stop his car, because he believes good brakes aren´t so important because you don´t really need them in real world (i guess hybrid is more important WTF). So following your logic airbags would not be neccessary in a car as well, because you don´t need them so often, do you? And by the way, i am pretty sure that you will admire damn good brakes even if you only need them once in your life time, but in exactly this moment (wet road, half of the car in the dirt, the other half on the road) you will appreciate a car with good brakes, because it will enable you to save your own life and the life of others.

EL44 - 4/10/2008 3:51:04 PMView My AgentSpace

-6 Boost

Auto moto und sport. Hahahaha. Let me laugh. The most racist automagazine here. Even we know that. But non germans don't know this. Even if god was japanese and built a japanese luxury car, Automoto un sport won't appriciate it. Don't believe.? Come to us few months and expérience it.

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simmonsdp - 4/10/2008 4:12:24 PM

0 Boost

Auto motor und sport sucks,,I dont buy the magazine anymore. I know how bad they are and I am an American...

ErichHartmann - 4/10/2008 4:24:28 PM

-1 Boost

If there is one thing Auto Motor und Sport does well it is testing cars and their characteristics. When they test the performance of a car (acceleration, top speed etc.) they're not as good, but when they test a car they do a good job.

Toyota and Lexus have a history of poor braking performance in Europe, not only in German magazines.

bestofallcadillac - 4/11/2008 2:26:27 PM

+2 Boost

Do you think Consumer Reports is accurate Ha Ha!

I do not know about you I have never been survey by them before.

Motor Trend and Car and Driver magizine voted The Cadillac CTS Car of the year! oh by the way not one Lexus or not 1 Toyota was even nominated or in the running! What does that tell you! It is not just their piss poor brakes that are the problem.

They are boring, all look alike, no styling, and now have bad brakes.

M35MT - 4/10/2008 3:53:12 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Took a minute to find this, although I did find many negative artiles regarding this car's brakes:

"Drive-wise, the LS is superb in a straight line, handling bumps and road wallops easily. Acceleration is brisk, hitting 60 mph from a standstill in 6.29 seconds. Braking is an LS strong suit. The car needs just 113 feet to stop from 60 mph, which puts it on a level with sports car thoroughbreds such as the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (112 feet)."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070223/FREE/70216008/1011

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xdrive_ - 4/10/2008 3:58:33 PM

+5 Boost

C&D's comparo of full-size luxury sedans (that placed Lexus in last place out of 5 contenders) also noted the brakes:

"...and the electrohydraulic brakes were similarly peculiar in operation, producing longer-than-expected stopping distances. "

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/chauffeur_showdown_comparison_test+page-2.html

M35MT - 4/10/2008 4:11:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Does autoweek know something everyone else doesnt? Just trying to show both sides of the argument, just like 009.

answer - 4/10/2008 6:44:21 PM

+4 Boost

There is nothing you could post to make some people change their minds on the LS's braking performance.

A review was found that stated the brakes suck. The review is European. That's more than enough for the closed-minded memembers of autospies.

lexusrox123 - 4/10/2008 7:01:12 PM

+5 Boost

good point, answer. it certainly was the answer.

Matthew1 - 4/11/2008 1:40:54 AM

-2 Boost

That number was probably a quoted time by the manufacturer...

FactsRule - 4/10/2008 3:55:14 PM

+4 Boost

XeroKool I hope you are never on a design team or engineering project for the automotive industry, which I don't think I should have to ever worry about since you are totally clueless in the world of the sane... LMAO!!!

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bmwman1963 - 4/10/2008 4:46:57 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

XeroKool, it's amusing how you cherry pick your "facts", but when other's on here quote "facts" to you from different sources, magazines etc. you dismiss them. Your name is appropriate because you are ZERO COOL!

Atenza28 - 4/10/2008 9:56:31 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Xero,
I really don't know exactly how this publication performed their brake test. What I do know is that brake fade is not always about repeated, high speed, track star braking. Brake fade has everything to do with heat and time. What I'd be concerned about is panic braking at high speeds, really high speeds, speeds reached in the no limit zones of the bahn. The heat generated produces a phase shift in the pad material. Portions of the pad (mainly the resins) will actually evaporate creating a gas. This gas has a bad effect on braking performance even for a single hard stop. I've experienced this with a few vehicles. It's not a fun situation when you need to get slowed down in a hurry. This is precisely the reason why they have such tests. I acknowledge that you have produced a video of a test where the brakes were tested to be fine. SO IDK who is more correct in this situation or if the testing was just that different. But I would definitely say that under all conditions possibly presented by physics, I would want brakes that perform well. You were talking about engine braking in SF. SF does have some steep hills but definitely not the steepest in the world as I have been down some ridiculously steep roads in other parts of this country, and engine braking doesn't slow you enough for those grades. And just because you and I and probably a lot of other proper drivers know about the engine braking technique doesn't mean everyone else knows. Another thing, with automatics these days automatically kicking you into the highest gear for economy reason IDK how many cars you can engine brake in without moving that gear selector down which sooooo many people don't understand the concept of.

autopro - 4/10/2008 4:07:22 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

They rigged the car,just like 60 minutes did to the Audi 5000.

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autopro - 4/12/2008 2:27:07 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

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