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Tags: Infiniti Q45, M50L, BMW, Lexus

Tag Links: Infiniti Q45, M50L, BMW, Lexus

Should Infiniti bring back the Q45? Or is there a better solution?
It doesn't seem so long ago when Infiniti came out of the gate with the original Q45.

I remember seriously considering it before I decided on the original Lexus LS400.

At the time, it was the BMW of the two vehicles because performance was emphasized more than luxury.

It had great performance and build quality but I could not warm up to the exterior design.

And once Lexus had the lead, Infiniti has been trying to play catch up ever since.

But no matter what they do, it doesn’t seem like they have had the right recipe to seriously get back in the game.

The Q has always been good.

Just not good enough.

So the buzz over the last few years is should they or will they ever bring back a Q45?

The question is if they can make money after they invest do much to do a new vehicle?

And is there a market for them with all the others in the space.

Maybe we have a better idea for them.

Why not do what BMW did in China?

How about a long wheelbase M45 instead of a Q?

Call it the M50L.

Put the most powerful engine in it and load it up with great features and interior quality, compared to the competition..

A lot less development cost and then they would have a product that no one else has in the USA so they could own the market?

And you could undercut the price of the LS and the others.

Is it pimp?

The Spies want to know what you think of this idea…
Should Infiniti bring back the Q45? Or is there a better solution?



Comments:

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printhanprinthan - 8/2/2007 2:55:38 PM
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pay me.. den i'll tell u

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M35MTM35MT - 8/2/2007 3:15:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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The XJ is practically a failure at this point...

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chuck717chuck717 - 8/2/2007 3:16:18 PM
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x-drive a G-37 conv is in the works right now and yes i like your thought on a wagon also. This all cost money, so Nissan and Infiniti have to think hard about a super luxury car i still think they need to do it if Infintit is to be a world stage player. take care

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damikcodamikco - 8/2/2007 8:29:32 PMView My AgentSpace
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bulldogzbulldogz - 8/3/2007 1:17:03 PM
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I remember seeing on this site, spy shots of a G35 conv. about 3 years ago, and nothing came of it.

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chewychewy - 8/2/2007 3:04:45 PMView My AgentSpace
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A Q50 is in the works, supposedly.

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M35MTM35MT - 8/2/2007 3:13:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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It is, although the engine will be near 400hp, (5.0L) "Q-forty-five" just has a better ring to it...but forget the name...

Infiniti can compete if they execute this car the same way the G and M were. Real competitors to the 3 and 5 series. A stretched M would NOT look right. That car is already on an inflated G35 platform.

It all comes down to design. But they should keep the gatling gun headlights from the previous gen. Those were awesome - and they should be LED this time around.


Will_Will_ - 8/2/2007 3:07:43 PM
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I odn't think they should either. The premium luxury sedan segment is already a very crowded segment to begin with. If there was a need for one more full-size luxury sedan, I'd say Cadillac should give it a whirl with a new DTS to put the American luxury market on the map.

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chuck717chuck717 - 8/2/2007 3:10:32 PM
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Infiniti is on a nice roll, people are in the showrooms and this would be the time for them to introduce a new Q. Certainly the car line is poised for a luxury model, the Q56 has filled the bill amoung the top mega SUV's. They need a very fresh look and of course a retool cost lots of money so they almost have to have a winner, but i think the gamble is lessened right now, their cars are hot.
We know it is not nice to copy others (Lexus come to mind) but the S-class in a reform redo by Infiniti could do it, car about that size with a little less fender flare and a nicer rear along with a top notch cabin priced in the 50's and i think all forget about the pass Q's image?

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JUGNUJUGNU - 8/2/2007 3:15:42 PMView My AgentSpace
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I agree Q should make a comeback.

How about starting the 400BHP+ league.

JUGNU

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M35MTM35MT - 8/2/2007 3:20:06 PMView My AgentSpace
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Some scared euro-trash fanboy is deboosting everyone.

Don't worry, the next Q wont be as ugly as the 7 series.

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Will_Will_ - 8/2/2007 3:35:56 PM
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Hopefully the next 7-Series wont be as ugly as the 7-Series either.


LexusLexus - 8/2/2007 3:57:57 PM
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I seriously think that Infiniti should start from scratch and built another flagship luxury sedan. But they better put in serious time and investment to make sure it good enough to compete in this segment. It need to make it interior and exterior more appeal and sporty.

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IVBankerIVBanker - 8/2/2007 9:26:35 PM
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Indeed, market feasibility studies indicate you are correct. A newly designed luxury automobile with the Infiniti badge NEWLY named will be a coup in North America and other G8 demographics. There is always room for new blood when executed properly and Infiniti has proven beyond speculation that they can deliver to the market and dollars are not a problem when you hold the successful pro formas that Nissan does. Financial institutions will line up; they always align easily with those that have track records in their specialty.


gsh23gsh23 - 8/2/2007 3:59:28 PM
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AlecAlec - 8/2/2007 4:06:49 PM
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I think Infiniti should bring back the Q. The M35/45 is in class with the 5 series, E class and A6s. Making one into a L wheelbase will just make it a long M (first in its class though i believe). Not a real 7 series, S class and A8 competitor.

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Agent001Agent001 - 8/2/2007 4:11:31 PMView My AgentSpace
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You are all missing the point of the question...Would they be better off and make more money/profit and own a segment their competitors are not in by making an M50L or should they invest billions to re-develop a Q45?

001


AlecAlec - 8/2/2007 4:57:43 PM
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I understand your point of the question 001, and I vote for re-development of the Q. Investing billions of dollars should be worth Infinitis money to create a benchmark large luxury sedan. A M50 would be great, just not in a form of a L wheel base. It would be similar to how Benz made the first 4 door coupe. Infiniti would be going as the first Midsized Luxury sedan with a long wheel base. As far as I know, none of Infinitis competitors has anything like it in the line up.


Designer1Designer1 - 8/2/2007 6:19:34 PM
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No billions of dollars are spent to build a new car. Hire the right engineers and designers, I would hire 3 good designers (pay them $250k/year) and 6 good engineers pay each one of them $150k/year (yes engineers make the hard work but get paid less than architects/designers) and in two years they can give me a new product that is as competitive as the rest.

That's $3.3 million for 2 years, plus say $5 millions for assembly/testing and material, that's around $10 millions for 2 years, go worst case $20 millions.
If the money is used right, it won't cost that much, I just don't see why should it cost more to build a new car. I'm not counting to build a new factory for it by the way, just the engineering work to make it happen.


chewychewy - 8/2/2007 6:43:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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If Infinity only spent 10 million on a Q50, it would be worse than a Chinese tin can.

But yes, a brand new Q would make sense. A slighly longer M, like the Chinese market A6/5 series won't be able to command a 60-70,000 price.


RupertRupert - 8/2/2007 7:32:53 PMView My AgentSpace
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Designer, you are forgetting tooling, training for factories, new body panels, new parts, new interiors, testing of parts (at least 5 years of it)...the costs run into billions, easily.


JUGNUJUGNU - 8/2/2007 4:33:17 PMView My AgentSpace
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What r u talking Agent001

Who needs the 'L' longer version except that sheikhs of Middle East and a few Chinese.

Longer versions just add weight and price and loose some sportiness.

M50, Q50 both are nice.

First of all they should make smashing new succesors.Longer versions could be made later

JUGNU


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answeranswer - 8/2/2007 4:55:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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I think there should definatly be a new Q.

They should go all out with the next one. But it does have to offer something unique to compete with the market leaders.

I would make a Maserati quattoporte style car using the engine from the upcoming GT-R. Four seats only and with class-leading performance and cool tech gadgets not seen elsewhere.



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M35MTM35MT - 8/3/2007 8:56:25 AMView My AgentSpace
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That would be awesome if they could pull it off.


BMW995BMW995 - 8/2/2007 5:24:18 PM
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I'm all for the return of a great Q, but let's get the styling right this time. The G and M are fine as well as their current and future SUVs. The Q's styling has been the weak link with Infiniti.
Bring in an established, world class stylist for this job - maybe Chris Bangle?

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STJ88STJ88 - 8/2/2007 5:32:50 PM
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@Xdrive

I can tell you there wont be a G37 wagon, the G37 is the skyline in Japan and the wagon version of the skyline was the stagea. The stagea was discontinued in juli after two generations and 10 years of production.

And its not up to infiniti if there wil be a next Q but up to nissan. De Q45 is the Japanese cima/president and those two are still in production.

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TauronB2GTauronB2G - 8/2/2007 5:40:19 PM
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They should definitely do a new Q. The current car really isn't bad to begin with its just an also ran. It has good power but I think the interior may be just a little small. I 'd hate to see it get bloated like the current luxury offerings but it does need to get bigger and more luxurious. They also need to give it sexier styling, keep the headlights and lose everything else.
T


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mini22mini22 - 8/2/2007 5:56:31 PM
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Well styling is a major component of whether the car will sell. Jaguar miscalculated by assuming the old world charm styling would still sell. It did not which is a shame because it's a good reliable vehicle now.Toyota played their cards right when they copied the S class. However if the M35/45 is selling well perhaps Infinity could do a longer wheelbase and more powerful engine and call it the a Q50 or what ever the engine size is.They would have to make the interior slightly more upscale. As long as it's got beautiful styling and priced fairly it should sell.

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Designer1Designer1 - 8/2/2007 6:07:24 PM
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For Infiniti to truly compete in its top luxury sedan, it needs to be a separate car than the mid size M45. I don't see the M50L competing with the LS460L, S550, 750iL, A8L, the M competes with the GS, E, 5 series and A6.

Bring out a new Q with a new body style, not like the Q45 that looked like a Buick for God's sake, and make it Q50 and Q50L, and MUCH better interior quality than the current Infiniti line up, especially the wood trim.

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damikcodamikco - 8/2/2007 8:31:16 PMView My AgentSpace
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it might put them back in the game

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bokuchinbokuchin - 8/2/2007 9:07:27 PM
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I think it a new Q would be a good idea, but Infiniti would have to make it more powerful than the M50, or people would buy that instead. I know that developing a new engine would be costly, I think that this or adding another engine to the Q50 line-up (think 760, A8 W-12, S600) would make it a success.

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DaveDave - 8/2/2007 10:24:49 PM
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The best thing for Infiniti's brand image IS TO bring back the Q as the Q50 and NOT Q45. The Q45 from 2003 on was not at all competitive when compared to the Lexus LS, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, etc. Sure, the car had a 340HP engine that was more powerful than the BMW 745i at the time, but everything else about it was not that good. The Q45 looked(and handled) kind of like a Buick. The styling looked awkward and not clean or aggressive. The car had no presence. This is the lingering impression most people have of the Q45.
For Infiniti to penetrate the highly competitive flagship luxury segment, they need to start totally anew with the Q50, just like they did in 2002 with the G35 and in 2005 with the M. The styling must be very dramatic, the car must have presence, no cost cutting measures should be taken, and the car must be priced in the same manner they have been pricing the new G and M sedans. No easy task by any measure. Of course many people ask, "Is there even a need for the Q?" The answer is a definite YES. Nissan wants Infiniti to eventually become a global brand(it already has it's sights set on China, Korea, and Russia) and any luxury brand that wants to do that MUST HAVE a tier 1 flagship that can run with Merc's S class and BMW's 7 series. This is the reason why Lexus aggressively redid the LS and the same reason rumors are flying Acura is considering to build a flagship sedan above the RL. Going besides the point, Infiniti's brand image and it's difficult task of going global would be a heck of a lot easier if they would only market the upcoming GT-R as an Infiniti, not as a Nissan. Then the next 'Infiniti' G50 would have an easier task when introduced because the 'Infiniti' GT-R already established the Infiniti name. Alas, for the traditionalists, they decided to go with the Nissan name.

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Anti_BangleAnti_Bangle - 8/2/2007 10:36:36 PM
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No, I'd prefer the Acura RL or Lexus LS (non-hybrid and sans stupid self-park) over anything from Infinity.

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bulldogzbulldogz - 8/3/2007 1:21:37 PM
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dude, don't even mention the RL, especially when everyone considers the TL superior to it for $20k less. The RL is, and has always been, a joke. They were better off staying with the Legend.


DaveDave - 8/2/2007 10:44:09 PM
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Elaborating, I respect 001's comments, but as we all know by now, every country has a different market. What works in one market does not necessarily work in another. A few examples: Audi sells awesome in China, but not very well in the US. Buick is good in China, but in the US is an 'old man's' car. Lexus dominates luxury cars in the US, but can't penetrate the European market and has yet to dominate it's own Japanese market. The point is, BMW making a long wheelbase 5 and it selling well in China doesn't mean Infiniti will do well if it did the same thing in the US. Don't forget, BMW STILL HAS the 750i AND V-12 760i. The long 5 is exclusive to that market. I really don't think having an M50L is enough to capture the American market or enough to lure BMW 7 series customers away. The G and M have stole some potential sales away from the 3 and 5 series.
We know that China is the fastest growing auto market worldwide being #2 behind the US. And while Japan produces some fine vehicles and does very well in the US market, it doesn't do that well in China for a certain reason. The atrocities that Japan did in WWII to China are still felt today. THEY ARE STILL TAUGHT to students today in China. And where the Chinese are still bitter is that the Japanese haven't really apologized and don't admit what they did to their current generation of children. Believe it or not, this plays a HUGE factor in their sales in China. The Chinese avoid Japanese products when they can. Obviously, the Japanese dominate in TV's, camera, small electronics, etc...so they can't avoid them there. But when it comes to cars and other things that the Germans offer, the Chinese WILL PASS up the Japanese. Ever wonder why the Chinese did NOT contract out their bullet train system to Japan to build, but to Germany? Why does the Acura TL, a very well made car that sells great in the US, is doing so poorly in China? That is why. It sounds awkward, but until the Japanese admit their wrongdoings and apologize, the Germans will still dominate in China...with a long wheelbase BMW 5 series or not.

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chuck717chuck717 - 8/3/2007 10:17:38 AM
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Dave good take> They say time heals all wounds but the China- Japan hate probally will never go away, again good history lesson.


rok_altimarok_altima - 8/3/2007 9:05:35 AM
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I believe Infiniti announced that the Q or high teir luxury sedan would return in 2009 or 2010.

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WhelanWhelan - 8/3/2007 10:12:31 AM
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There is a Q coming out again in 09. But I agree in the long wheelbase M45. When the M first came out I thought it was the Q replacement. I don't see many 45s but I do see a lot of M35X's. They are gorgeous looking cars and an extended one to be the length of the LS and possibly 5/600 would be sweet. Drop a V10 in that, or pull a VW and put two VQ 6's in the thing. Just like VW did with the W12 engine! Now your talking!

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henbmwhenbmw - 8/3/2007 10:44:25 AM
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If they can make their big sedans less ugly then yes, bring it back!

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JUGNUJUGNU - 8/3/2007 12:29:10 PMView My AgentSpace
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dave

I don't agree with u on japan-china hatred thing.

Then why Japaneese cars are doing so well in US.I think they also fought in WWII and US nuked Japan.

Then Why Americans dont avoid japaneese cars.

Same thing with Middle East.Due to tensions developing in countries like Iraq,Lebonan,Palestine,Iran...etc
nearly every all Arab countries are against US and thinks really nagative about them but still American makes like Chevy and Ford do really good in countries like Saudi Arabia,Iraq...etc

All in all i think a good product will speak for itself and nobody really cares about all the history.

Infinti Good luck

JUGNU

JUGNU

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EnnNorakEnnNorak - 8/3/2007 1:23:37 PM
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The Q45 was a much better value than the Lexus flagship of the day. I hope Nissan does an encore.

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DaveDave - 8/3/2007 10:47:47 PM
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I agree with virtually all your comments JUGNU here on Autopsies, and I know we both love Japanese luxury cars, but this China-Japan thing is not the same as Japan's relationship with the US. It is totally different. When I say the Chinese avoid Japanese products, it's not me that is saying it, MOST Chinese will tell you that(my wife is from China and even she admits it) is true. Sure, Japan and the US fought in WWII, but Japan never occupied the US and never committed the unspeakable horrors to US citizens that they did to the Chinese. (Off the subject, many Americans wanted to boycott TARGET stores because France wouldn't join us in the war on Iraq.) The US and Japan after the war reconciled and became 'friends'. Japan has never reconciled it's differences with China and to this day they even still have strong territorial disputes in the sea. The Middle East is a way different market and can't be used in this comparison. They have virtually no export machinery industry except for oil. They'll go for anything of good quality regardless of history.
So for the most part, yes, it's as you say, a "good product will speak for itself and nobody really cares about all the history." But in the case of China and Japan, it's a different story. China could've have had Japan build it's pricey high speed trains for less than Germany charged, but they still went with Germany.
I can guarantee you it will be a long time before the Japanese luxury brands can compare with the German brands in China. In China, it has everything to do with it's bitter history with Japan.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 8/4/2007 2:34:56 AMView My AgentSpace
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Ahem, I must correct the article,001:

"Why not do what BMW did in China?"

It was in fact Audi who has had the A6 L for a few years now, and BMW only recently followed suit with its long-wheelbase 5 Series models.

Otherwise...

No, I think the Q should still be its own model, but with a different designation, like Q50 (as someone else mentioned). It should have a 350-400hp V8 to set it apart from the M45, and it should be positioned as a 7 Series/A8 competitor. The styling should be more elegant and stately than the M's, but just sporty enough so that it's still obvious that it's not just a luxury sedan. The interior doesn't have to be up to A8/S-Class levels of refinement and craftsmanship, but it should be up there with the 7 Series and XJ, with the LS in between the two groups.

It should be priced at about $60,000. If Infiniti is aggressive, it will be $65,000, which will overshadow the LS460's base price-- but it should be worth it, with more standard features. "Topped-out," it will be $75K, and there should be a long wheelbase version.

Infiniti might as well take everything I just said and put it into the car.

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autoproautopro - 8/4/2007 10:57:20 AMView My AgentSpace
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The biggest problem is nissan doesn't have enough money to compete at this level it takes at least a billion dollars or more to produce a world class sedan.

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