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Should The Federal Government Require RFID Tags In All Drivers Licenses?

Agent009 submitted on 12/28/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 9:36 AM
from: www.autospies.com

[37] user comments | category: Misc News

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Should The Federal Government Require RFID Tags In All Drivers Licenses?

Electronic monitoring of motorists will soon expand dramatically as states including Arizona, Michigan, Vermont and Washington begin to use radio frequency identification (RFID) chips in drivers' licenses. These electronic chips broadcast the identity of any card holder to any chip-reading sensor within a minimum of thirty feet. The US Department of Homeland Security is promoting the tracking projects as part of its Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative.

"Multiple cards can be read at a distance and simultaneously with vicinity RFID technology, allowing an entire car full of people to be processed at once," a DHS fact sheet on the Passport Card technology explained.

So-called enhanced drivers' licenses are designed to meet the DHS travel document requirements. Enhanced card holders will be allowed to travel across the border without a passport when new regulations take effect in January 2009. The enhanced licenses electronically store the motorist's name, date of birth, height, weight and identity number on the card. RFID readers use the identity number to access additional private information from a department of motor vehicles database.

Although the licenses will initially be offered on a voluntary basis, the National Motorists Association suggests that it will not take long for the program to become mandatory.

"The federal government just incentivizes their proposal so that each state, and by extension its citizens, feel like they have no choice but to go along with their program," the NMA stated today.

The Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) warns that the move is another step toward a national identity card.

"DHS, Arizona, Vermont and Washington are creating these new ID cards in order to change the state driver's license in to a federal border security identification document," the EPIC website explained. "The license is pulled away from its original intent -- to ensure driving competence -- and used as a multi-use federal identification document that could easily be transformed into a national identity card."

Not every state is sold on the idea. The California State Senate voted in April to ban RFID drivers' licenses. The bill passed an Assembly committee by a 9-5 vote in July.

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Agent009 - 12/28/2007 9:47:56 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Ok, putting civil liberties aside for a moment, I'm going to play devils advocate here:

1.Yes TSA could use this technology to speed up airport processing and screening as well.

2. A cop pulls a car over and immediately can identify all occupants carrying a RFID license and run outstandingly warrants and determine the threat level before approaching.

3. Officers can scan crowds looking for potential suspects without stopping everyone.

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Bmw8ter - 12/28/2007 10:02:00 AM

+2 Boost

There goes my petty crimes career.

pacotacolol - 12/28/2007 11:26:52 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

i think it really should be a choice. but immigrants must have it

JRobUSC - 12/28/2007 11:27:02 AM

+1 Boost

Frankly I don't consider that a civil liberties issue. Unless you're a criminal it doesn't really affect you at all. You don't want "Big Brother" watching? Then don't carry your license around. When they require you to implant the chip in your skin or something, THEN we'll talk civil liberties.

Agent009 - 12/28/2007 11:50:44 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It could be considered unreasonable profiling in the right circumstances. Say an officer is scanning people walking into a Rap concert but not a Yanni concert.

kart1 - 12/28/2007 12:07:44 PM

+3 Boost

My problem here is who will be able to access the information. The licenses could lead people to get all kinds of information about a person they meet (I know it is intended for police, but don't tell me that other people wont be able to access it). The Civil Liberties is a issue, but access is a bigger one for me.

1970toyotamarc - 12/28/2007 12:08:03 PM

+6 Boost

JRob...."unless you're a criminal, it doesnt really affect you at all."

Are you kidding me???!!

First of all, think about your day's activities. Did you go over 35mph, Did you fail to stop for 3 full seconds?? Now go a little deeper, what web pages have you opened, or popped up? Who have you taked to on campus, at work, in your neighborhood?

Did you study history at USC? We are all criminals, deviants, suspicious, terrorists, miscreants in somebody's mind. I dont know (or care to know) your political leanings. but let me just be a devil's advocate for a second. Let's say someone (not sayig you, necessarily) thinks this is okay cuz Bush is da MAN, savin us from those furrin terrists. Well, how will you feel next year when Hillary is tracking you?

First they came after the Jews, but I wasnt a Jew....I'm sure y'all know the rest of that one.

kart1 - 12/28/2007 12:17:42 PM

+3 Boost

ToyotaMarc, some people don't understand the real issue or the reason why all these powers were not granted to the federal government in the first place by the founding fathers.

kart1 - 12/28/2007 12:25:42 PM

+2 Boost

OK what I am saying here is that there is a possibility for more than one thing to happen here. Of course I'd like to be protected, but the question is am I being protected?

You see I have nothing to hide, but I would like it if whatever is hidden remains hidden.

EnnNorak - 12/28/2007 12:38:50 PM

+2 Boost

Given the world we live in today, it's a great idea to be able to track people but RFIDs are too easy to circumvent. A really smart crook can even use an RFID to frame someone.

I think what really needs to be done is to issue radiation detectors and explosives sniffing devices to one out of every 100 citizens whose hobby it would be to detect and report suspicious activities.

I challenge the IT community to come up with a fool-proof way to detect both drivers and cars and monitor and record their continuous movement.

jeffy210 - 12/28/2007 11:39:19 AM

+3 Boost

Simple, carry it in an RF suppressing pouch. If they want to see it or scan it, I can go ahead and remove it and show it to them.

The biggest problem with RFID is it's looking for an answer to a question that was never asked. As simple as it is for a cop to read your license at 30-feet so can anyone else. Once the encryption scheme is broken anyone would be able to track you or see who is nearby.

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Agent009 - 12/28/2007 11:53:58 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Another spin could be a criminal using the reader to scan any RFID based credit card at a distance and linking it to the same persons Drivers License in their wallet. Now he can have multiple credit card numbers and a drivers license and address to link it too.

All from a walk by in the mall. The possibilities are endless.

kart1 - 12/28/2007 12:12:30 PM

+1 Boost

Exactly what I have been saying.

TauronB2G - 12/28/2007 12:31:10 PM

+4 Boost

Over my cold dead body. This is definitely a civil liberties issues. Im no criminal but the implications of this are just downright scary. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.
T

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EnnNorak - 12/28/2007 12:44:49 PM

0 Boost

Unfortunately the bad guys are abusing our values and there is no way to stop them other than giving up some of our own privacy.

AFM155 - 12/28/2007 12:54:40 PM

0 Boost

You're right on it with this one. It's sad how Americans can be lead to believe that we all need to sacrifies our civil liberties in the name of safety. People are so blind. Fisrt it was the unconstitunional "Patriot Act" and now this. Actually the National ID Card Project, is scheduled to go into effect May 11, 2008 in every state with each state having the choice of asking for an extension untill 2010. It is my understanding that without the card, we will be denied bank accounts in the United States of America, a driver’s license, and the right to fly on airplanes unless we have been issued a Real ID card. Don't believe me, just do a search on the internet. It's sad how most Americans don't know about this and many other acts this administration is doing in behind our backs.

cdoke - 12/28/2007 2:29:40 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"You're right on it with this one. It's sad how Americans can be lead to believe that we all need to sacrifies our civil liberties in the name of safety."

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - often attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

I believe the problem of which you speak is a bit more fundamental- the problem is that Americans don't understand their own government in terms of the reasoning for its structure and function. I consider myself above most other things to be a child of the Enlightenment. The structure of the United States is a direct function of the Enlightenment. People simply don' have any understanding of it. The perfect example is people calling the United States a democracy. It is NOT a democracy- it is a Federal Republic and there is a massive difference between the two.

I sense a very long post coming on so I will just say that its isn't just the current administration (although Republicans of about 40-50 years ago were relatively good adherents to liberalism) that is doing this- both parties are guilty of destroying America piecewise. The founders warned against political parties and we are reaping the consequences of that.

jeffy210 - 12/28/2007 3:22:04 PM

+1 Boost

"other than giving up some of our own privacy"

AHEM... "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson, Nov. 11, 1755

cdoke - 12/28/2007 7:05:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

AHEM...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Reference: Benjamin Franklin, "Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor", November 11, 1755; as cited in The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, vol. 6, p. 242, Leonard W. Labaree, ed. (1963)

It was also later used in Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759), which Franklin published but insisted did not write.

kart1 - 12/28/2007 12:41:37 PM

+1 Boost

I am sorry, but did anyone notice the expiration date on Atta's card there?

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gsh23 - 12/28/2007 1:33:29 PM

+2 Boost

do color coded threat warnings make you feel safe? does the patriot act make you feel safe? exactly. its all bullshit. RFID is just the next step in the ever progressing subjugation of a mass population. you can name off all the benefits in the world but it will still mean that one day, someone in control of the system will abuse it.

this article is laughable. the minute something like this happens im going to buy my rifle and pistols.

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cdoke - 12/28/2007 2:49:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"The hypothetical scenario where a crook would place an eavesdropping gadget up next to you in order to learn your credit card numbers and your name just seems a little far fetched to me."

You don't watch 60 minutes do you? Not but a few weeks ago there was a show on crooks driving by the front of large chains, breaking into their wi-fi network and stealing people's personal information including their credit cards. Why take the risk of being caught when you can drive the same van through a crowd and steal all of the information? Furthermore, it is more difficult with individual cards to have an updated and therefore effective encryption system, where is a wi-fi system you can update the software to do it.

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cdoke - 12/28/2007 6:16:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Again, your words

"The hypothetical scenario where a crook would place an eavesdropping gadget up next to you in order to learn your credit card numbers and your name just seems a little far fetched to me."

What type of equipment do you think are in these vehicles: cupcakes? No: "eavesdropping devices" essentially. This type of thing happens more often than you know. In addition, had you watched 60 minutes you would know that these wi-fi networks were secured (if that is what you can call it)- but with encryption technologies that had been hacked already.

"In order for it to fully make sense and be relevant to what I wrote, it ideally should have been secured using the same encryption technology that is to be used in these ID cards"

You have to be joking. Are are three- it is called analogy. It admittedly is not a perfect analogy because it would be harder to keep an RFID encryption safe because there is no overriding system that allows you to modify the cards themselves- as each card is a separate entity.

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neutral - 12/28/2007 11:50:16 PM

+2 Boost

ENOUGH WITH THIS COMMUNIST CRAP!!!

What has America become?!?!?! Speed cameras, drinking ages, penalties for everything!!

GIVE ME A BREAK!! Where are the real conservatives here!! As a true conservative (not your everyday republican), I am appalled.

reply to this comment

Hatemachine777 - 12/29/2007 12:21:36 AM

+2 Boost

If history has shown us anything it should be that the total erosion of liberty always starts small and with seemingly good intentions. It's a slippery slope and if they want to put radio tags in drivers lisences then it's only a matter of time untill they want to put chip in your body.

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no1listensanyway - 12/29/2007 1:23:47 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Id never thought Id say this, but maybe its time to move back to Europe.

cad1cts - 12/29/2007 1:51:12 AM

+2 Boost

In answer to your question 009, no...not just no but hell NO...NOT NOW NOT EVER! Thats my peace....

reply to this comment

anataxis - 12/29/2007 12:43:18 PM

+2 Boost

"The simple truth of the matter is that in all reasonable likelihood, you are an ordinary person, which is to say that you don't have the first clue how public encryption works."

I started college when I was 15- during that time I also was an employee at Lucent Technologies and I know many people who are not just your common everyday hackers but know more on enryption and how to crack it than even some of the best members of the Cult of the Dead Cow did- of course they were just hackers very good hackers granted. That was back when Lucent's stock was around $80/share.

I am going to be perfectly honest here. Don't take this personally but you have something rather wrong with you- I don't know if you are just very young or are on drugs or worse, but your messages are quite possibly the most inane illogically constructed on this website- if you do not believe me on that count ask some of the members here to come and read what has been written here. Ask them their opinion. Not that the majority is right necessarily. Have you ever heard of the Red Herring Fallacy? Your comment to DaHarder the other day was also one of these- it is like you just want to hear yourself talk (figuratively) All of the stuff about the Patriot act is just that. It wouldn't be so bad if your comments weren't littered with them. Writing you off as persona non grata is basically all I can think of doing.

And the relevenace of the 60 minutes episode is the point out that it is not far fetched that criminals would do such things- they already do them. I have known people who have done far worse.

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Spectator - 12/31/2007 11:42:25 AM

+1 Boost

I'll take one please...as long as I can carry it in my lead lined wallet.

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