The Lexus IS250 Road test in Europe

Now LEXUS has to be realy careful with it's futur new IS coupe. The new BMW coupe is a great car!!!!

— AUDBMLEXMRC (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2006 6:24:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

What???

— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 5:46:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

i fully agree.

people who worship bmw and the 3 in particular tend to be so ONE-DIMENSIONAL.

like, how much of the time can anyone spend, driving at 8/ or 9/10ths?

how much time, on the other hand, is spent just trundling around, commuting, running errands, etc.?

a well rounded car is SO MUCH more practical. and comfortable. and generally less costly to operate too.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 3:43:56 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

actually i have to disagree with that.

whats does the IS have that the 3 series doesnt?

where the IS leaves off in performance, the three picks up

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 10:24:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

define luxury and comfort.

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:07:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

performance (n.) - excelling at all aspects of extensive, excruciating driving, while mainting a balance of luxury, and driver excitement.

syn. - BMW

ant. - Lexus

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:33:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

the word "while" would make the whole statement in conjunction with performance, something that lexus doesnt have, sorry will your wrong again

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:39:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

so your definition of performance is acceleration and hp. but not the dynamics.. HA .. HA..

fyi according to every dyno result the bmw has closer to 350-375 hp.

IMO the only reason bmw rated the engine so low was because of the current m3.

so actually the IS is well underpowered compared to the 335i coupe and sedan :)

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:49:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

who is ignoring hp and accel?

the IS had more hp than the bmw 330i

whos disputing the dyno results?

oh and btw high 4 sec to low low 5 sec is the 335i's acceleration.

if im not mistaken they had a 335i reach 60 in 4.9 sec.

now with all that in place guess what will,

bmw has more hp and is faster..

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 12:04:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

response at the bottom

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 12:34:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I bewlieve I saw my first IS350 the other day, with those sexy dual-five-spoke rims. I've only been seeing IS250s and IS250 AWD models around here, which I didn't like because of their wheels. But the IS350 seemed much better-looking. I commend Lexus for staying true to their luxury pretense, but for giving a striking design like that 300hp.

Makes me want an IS350 AWD for my next winter car...

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/21/2006 9:22:49 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

DavidThande has the wisdom of a thousand men.

Long may it continue.

— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 2:02:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

A lot of European reviews have said that the IS250 felt a little "underpowered". As a result, the engine was thirsty. Any Europeans who can refute that claim?

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 8:20:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Any Europeans who can refute that claim? = Any Europeans HERE who can refute that claim?

Lexus still lacks a smaller gasoline engined IS and a bigger engine IS diesel. That's the biggest drawback IMO. It doesn't make sense that you offer a powerful IS250 and an economical IS220d with no other alternatives inbetween.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 8:26:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Well BMW530i you are right, the IS 250 is both underpowered and thirsty.
And another problem for the IS250 are the CO2 emissions.
It has 231 g/Km vs the bimmers 203 g/Km.

So IS 250 vs. 325:
- underpowered (204 vs 218)
- thirsty (28 mpg(real word 22 mpg) vs. 34 mpg)
- dirty (231 g/Km vs 203 g/Km)

— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 8:47:26 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

yes will, all 3-series are 3L I6

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 10:26:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Interesting Will, you get a bigger engine with the IS250 than the 325i/328i? How is 2.5L bigger than 3.0L? Using your math is the 204hp in the IS250 also more than the 230hp in the 328i?

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:35:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

well will just having a bigger engine doesnt necessarily mean more horsepower. the bmw has a bigger engine and gets better gas mileage. also i believe the difference is at higher speeds. bigger will give you more go.

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:42:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

"Mpg:
325i: 20 city/30 hwy
IS250: 20 city/28 hwy"

i was actually going by the numbers you posted.

well the 330i is no longer in production. and the IS is not faster than the 335i.

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:51:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

If the IS had the "better" engine, where is the "better fuel economy"?

*Devil Smiley*

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:53:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

so its ok when you say things are insignificant.. but when any german car fan says it, their dumb, biased, etc. etc.

g35 or the IS .. maybe in the next generation of both of the cars it might post a competiton, but not these generations

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 12:07:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

i dont see how a lexus exceeds bmw in luxury in such a way that it makes a difference. oh the other hand with bmw, lexus and infiniti are competition for the 3 series, that obvious. what i meant was that they arnt going to surpas the 3 in this generation, maybe the next. but i do agree that all cars have their ups and downs.

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 12:43:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

luvmybmr - are you actually making the comment that 2 more miles per hour is something you can make a stand on when you say that the BMW gets better gas milage?

That's like saying the 3-Series does 0-60 half a second faster than the IS! It's a mute point. Someone is perfectly able to get 30 and even 30 MPG in the IS if they wanted to.

You all focus on the most stupid little details.

— Mark (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 1:52:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Mark,

pay more attention to what was said b4, so you have a little idea of whats going on. we were talking about how Will, said it was insignificant data. not the matter of how much gas mileage you can get. its a no brainer that your mileage depends on the charateristics of you driving.

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 2:52:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Will, I have something to combat your "bigger engines have more horsepower" comment.

The last-generation Lexus LS430 had a 4.3L V8, The Audi A8 4.2 has a 4.2L V8. The Lexus had 278hp, the '06 A8 had 335hp, and the '07 A8 will have 350hp with the same engine.

The Lexus LS460 has a 4.6L V8, with 380hp. The Mercedes S550 has a 5.5L V8, with 380hp.

Just saying, companies with smaller engines can make them work. Mercedes just uses bigger and bigger blocks to get their massive power outputs.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/21/2006 9:27:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I would take the 325i over the 250, and i tend to side with Lexus usually. Ive driven the 250, and even though the interior is very nice, it does feel underpowered. Now the IS350 is a completely different story. But since this is about the 250, i will have to say i agree with the german fans here.

BTW, any of the BMW guys here into F1? Big race this weekend, Toyota and BMW battling for 5th spot in the constructors.

— Corsis (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 11:27:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Here’s what we found:

The non-turbocharged 330i, rated by BMW at 255 hp and 220 lb-ft of torque, puts about 200 hp and 180 lb-ft to the rear wheels. That’s roughly a twenty-percent loss. Since they have similar drivelines, you’d expect the 335i to put down 235 hp and 250 lb-ft.



But it didn’t. It put down a whole lot more: 275 hp and 300 lb-ft. A few quick taps on our trusty calculator shows that this engine is likely putting out closer to 350 hp and 360 lb-ft of torque.

now that i have read the article what argument do you have now?

and now car and driver is a "partner in crime" because they praise the bmw. riiite

— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 12:34:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

The Lexus IS is not my cup of tea.

It's funny lookin'.

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 12:53:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

Man I cannot wait for the new C-Class to shove the steak even deeper into the 3-Series heart.

— Jacob (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 1:41:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

OK, to clarify ceratin things.
The 325 european models differs from the USA version.

The 330, 328 and 325 USA all have the same 3 litre engine tweaked at diferent stages.

The euro 325 has a 2.5 litre engine aimed at fuel efficiency and avoiding displacemt taxation.
The same 2.5 litre is also used de-tuned in the 323 model. The the 325 euro has ~34 mpg.

As for the IS250, real world fuel consumption is way worse that the offical specs. It was tested in real world and they got 22/23 mpg.

The IS250 really is wimpy, thirsy and dirty.

But Lexus is hurt by the fact that they lack diesels.

I mean 320d, 325d, 330d and 335d vs IS22d only !!!

Now as agility and dynamics the 335i will kill the IS 335i.


The 335i defeated on tracks acording to test done by german and british magazines, the E46 M3, the S4, the
C55 AMG, the CLK63 AMG.

And all this with those crapy runflats.

So sorry Will, but you're BS if you think that the IS350 really has a chance.

Driving dynamics is were BMW excels, and Lexus never beat them in here.

— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 3:02:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Sorry I mean IS 220 and IS 350.
Typo mistakes.

— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 3:04:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The IS200 IS 200KG HEAVIER THAN THE 325I WHAT DO YOU EXPECT IN TERMS OF FUEL EFFIENCY & PERFORMANCE COMPARED TO THE 325I & BY THE WAY THE 325I IS NOT A 2.5 BUT A 2.8 ENGINE YOU GUYS ARE BIASED. I DRIVE AN IS250 SE.

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 3:42:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

The IS200 IS 200KG HEAVIER THAN THE 325I WHAT DO YOU EXPECT IN TERMS OF FUEL EFFIENCY & PERFORMANCE COMPARED TO THE 325I & BY THE WAY THE 325I IS NOT A 2.5 BUT A 2.8 ENGINE YOU GUYS ARE BIASED. I DRIVE AN IS250 SE.

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 3:43:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

sorry! I MAY BE WRONG! BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE 325I HAD A BIGGER ENGINE DISPLACEMENT COMPARED TO THE IS250 AND IT IS LIGHTER, THAT INFO I GOT FROM A BMW DEALER!

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2006 6:27:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

XeroK00L, just about every manual transmission on the market has worse fuel economy than their automatic equivalents. This is not some Lexus IS250 trait.

But every car comapny should follow VW/Audi's lead and incorporate DSG gearboxes in their cars. I know BMW is about to copy Audi because their SMG is so annoying, and the DSG offers both improved fuel economy and faster shifting, resulting in quicker acceleration. The Audi A3 2.0T DSG goes from 0-60 in 6.1-6.3 seconds, with the manual version coming in at 6.6. And the DSG is just a joy, especially on the highway. It's the smoothest, most seamless gearbox I've ever had.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/21/2006 5:47:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Sorry S4cabriofox, but BMW aren't about to copy the DSG.

The are thinking about licensing/buying it just like Audi/VW did, with the BorgWarner DualTronic.

SMG, Tiptronic/Steptronic and DSG are just marketing products build actually by supliers like Getrag (SMG),
BorgWarner(DSG), ZF Sachs (Steptronic).

Oh and the DSG isn't really seamingless, only Formula 1 gearboxes are.

The only ones who build their boxes to my knowledge were MB, tough I don't know if they still do.

Now back on topic.
The IS250 official info is BS.

— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/22/2006 5:24:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

No, it actually was in an article that BMW was going to what Audi did and try to incorporate DSG in its lineup.

This is what I said: "It's the smoothest, most seamless gearbox I've ever had."

I didn't say it was truly "seamingless", as you said. I said it was the most seamless gearbox I'VE ever had.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/22/2006 8:37:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

BMW Alpina D3 vs Lexus IS 220d TTE

http://www.germancarzone.com/showthread.php?p=104438#post104438

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/21/2006 7:36:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

"The IS makes the 3 look like a rip off". I'm shocked that it took this long for the Europeans to realize this.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/22/2006 12:34:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

For those who can't read I'll repost:
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
The 330, 328 and 325 USA all have the same 3 litre engine tweaked at diferent stages.

The euro 325 has a 2.5 litre engine aimed at fuel efficiency and avoiding displacemt taxation.
The same 2.5 litre is also used de-tuned in the 323 model. The the 325 euro has ~34 mpg (imperial /combined).
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------

Look people the IS 250 really is an underperformer, dirty and thirsty engine. Period.

— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/22/2006 5:10:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

S4cabriofox,

"just about every manual transmission on the market has worse fuel economy than their automatic equivalents. This is not some Lexus IS250 trait."

You could not be more wrong, almost all automobiles on the road today have better fuel economy with a manual transmission than with an automatic. That is because an automatic transmission has more parts and therefore, significantly heavier. Automatics use a rigid clutch compared to a torque converter, thus reducing mechanical deficiency. Automatics may also require power to be transmitted through multiple planetary gearsets before attaining the desired gear ratio, resulting in geartrain inefficiency.

— macrocaus (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 12:09:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Look people it doesn't say anywere that the 3er is a ripp off:

Here's the test:

---------------------------------------

Word has gotten around that diesels are now fun to drive - and finally, Lexus has an alternative. This is a comparison between the Lexus IS220d TTE and the BMW Alpina D3.

The BMW 3-Series is a fine car - even with a diesel engine. However, nowadays, everyone has one. We examined two tuned vehicles in this test. A BMW Alpina D3 and a Lexus IS220d with inhouse TTE tuning. On the Lexus, the only thing that catches your attention are the large 19" rims combined with the lowered body.

The Alpina BMW takes this tuning a bit further. It comes with a more noticeable body kit and 18" rims as well as a bunch of extras not found in the Lexus. The engine is a tuned version of the standard 320d. Alpina borrows the intercooler and magnetic valve injectors from the bigger brother, the 330d, and implants them into the D3. The result? 200-horsepower instead of the standard 163-horses.

he Lexus TTE on the other hand is not as complex as the BMW. Lexus simply installed a different system which boosts power from 177-hp to 208-hp at the touch of a button Interestingly, this TTE system is a prototype and not yet available on sale in Europe. Because of this, we hope that Lexus can improve the performance times of the IS220d as the midrange acceleration for one was dissapointing. The same applies for the BMW. However, in a city environment, the BMW has the Lexus beat. For example: cruise around at 50 km/h and floor it in 5th gear and the Lexus can't compete. The BMW Alpina sounds rather like a gasoline engine, than a diesel. Diesel-haters will be impressed.

The performance of the BMW is awesome. Impressive, to say the least, how those 200-horsepower work. The engine is rev-happy and even at 200 km/h, the car has enough reserve power and eagerness for more speed. 0-100 km/h take place in 7.7 seconds. The Lexus is defeated in the 0-100 km/h test with a 8.9 second time despite more power and torque (but it weighs more). Saving the honor of the TTE Lexus are two things: one, it does have power, and two, the IS220d TTE is a welcome change over the sluggish IS220d. Strangely, both the regular IS220d and tuned IS220d TTE are claimed by Lexus to have a 0-100 km/h in 8.9 seconds - but we measured a dissapointing 10.2 second 0-100 km/h for the regular IS220d. Every Audi A4 2.0 TDI, BMW 320d or Mercedes C220 CDI leaves it in the dust.

A shame that the performance of the Japanese car is so poor, especially since the Lexus isn't such a bad ride. The big wheels and sport suspension make the car not very comfortable, but improve the handling considerably over the stock model. However, the Alpina is simply better. It's handling and ride are better and it has the Lexus beat in comfort as well. While the BMW is the more fun car, it also requires 7.7 L / 100 km, as opposed to the Lexus 6.6 L / 100 km. Impressive.

-------------------------------

— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:04:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1