The New York Times rips on the Lexus LS 600h L

The NY Times is obviously biased towards US manufactures and the Republican Party. That is the only thing to explain a negative review of God's gift to lear jet liberals.

— johnct (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 7:27:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -13   

Wow.

The reviewer said exactly what I've been thinking.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 7:38:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

BUCKFUSHDOTCOM: I dont think buyers of an S600 or a 760 are concerned with MPG figures...

— Caddyman07 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 3:48:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

he certainly can't.

— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 8:46:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

he, he, ha, ha, ha. What a piece of shit, I was thinking it would get atleast 30mpg for all that extra money. Well what in the hell is the extra $30,000 tag for?

— BentleyGT (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 8:15:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

These paragraphs sum it up so nicely...

"... if you use more gas, you spew more carbon dioxide. So on that score, the 21 m.p.g. hybrid actually emits far more carbon dioxide than, say, a Mercedes-Benz diesel E-Class that can attain 30 m.p.g.

The LS 600h L also emits more greenhouse gases than the average new car that currently achieves 27.5 m.p.g. So a common Toyota Camry, among dozens of models, leaves a smaller carbon footprint than this hybrid land yacht."

One final ignominy: given the hybrid batteries and a separate air-conditioner for the back seat, the hybrid’s trunk measures a meager 11.7 cubic feet, smaller than that of a Kia Rio or other compact sedan."

Just amazing what a bit of hype will convince the almighty Toyota to produce and to market...a dinosaur, what a fantastic blunder...

— markusck (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 8:29:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 13   

houston:
the ES (camry) and the RX (highlander) make lexus the "#1 selling luxury brand" if you define luxury as a $35,000 car.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/18/2007 12:13:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

enthusiast: the RX is the JDM harrier (no difference) and the highlander is the JDM Kluger (again, no difference but the badge)

— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/18/2007 3:47:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

If you question a hybrid vehicle, you hate hybrids, or so the thinking goes. If you question a Toyota/Lexus hybrid, you're really on the outs with conventional wisdom. But unless people understand the difference between a great hybrid like the Prius and a questionable hybrid like the RX 400h or the LS600hL, then they're really wasting money they're trying to save. Articles like this will help better hybrids to thrive and marketing-driven hybrids to die, which is all good for car buyers. So, good article.

— crackityjones (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 9:25:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

Now looky here the Lexus got pwn3d.

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 9:25:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

I wonder how much money is New Youk Times is getting pay to say that? Yeah...Yeah...I know you the big business are piss as hell because Toyota and Lexus is banking on all the profit.

And they can't do nothing, so here they're bitching and complaining about Lexus again. Get over it Loser...........Toyota and Lexus are here to stay.

Since they hate Lexus so much, I can't wait to read a review on how much they like or hate Cars from China and India.

— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 9:56:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -9   

Do yourself a favor and pull your head out of your.....then reread this. It makes perfect sense. It is true. That is why I am so furiously angry BMW will be coming out with a hybrid X3. Hybrid technology is a FAD--period. Diesel is the way to go until hydrogen can go mainstream. Once that happens, no more gasoline for cars--that is a true utopia for greenies and conservatives alike.

— Qwazywabbit (View Profile)

Posted on 7/18/2007 10:52:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

The problem with Hybrid in my humble opinion is that they are well suited for light vehicles and should be limited to vehicles of a limited weight.
I also believe that they are best suited for city driving.
The LS600H might be a case of a technology that has been pushed beyond its operational envelope.

— AdmiralT20 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/15/2007 10:15:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

And what lukewarm review are you referring to? The Club Lexus review? LOL

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 8:32:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Do you mean, the article that was posted this past week that the current Audi RS4 beat the new M3? Oh! I remember now.

And two weeks ago when someone up here posted an article saying how the Ford Modeo beat the 3 Series in a straight line run.

— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 12:05:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6   

I guess its worth a premium over the 460...faster? no. better mileage? no. A high tech stuffed pig? you know it

— Autoegr525 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 12:33:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Fellas, this is an article about the Lexus Hybrid 600 and it's faults.

So there's no reason to bring up the brand new BMW M3.

BTW, the new M3 is a killer car and you know it!

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 12:59:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

+ 1

— Qwazywabbit (View Profile)

Posted on 7/18/2007 10:54:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lexus Hybrid....ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha....WhAT A JOKE, SAVE YOU'RE AND BUY A CAMARY.

— xj13 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 2:05:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

if this is lexus' flagship (and it is) and their best effort at combining performance and fuel economy (probably is), we can probably expect the same results with their upcoming LF-A.

we will be disappointed when it comes out. there's no point in holding our hopes up high.

— validus00 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 2:35:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Who cares about C02 and greenhouse gasses?

I don't.

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 3:48:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

after extensive testing of this car against the best its competition can offer, i.e. S8, 7series and S class AMG, there was not one car that could beat it in any category.
And what this guy said could not be more true. BMW, Merc and Audi have had their day, Lexus sales in Europe have increased at least 20% every year for the last 3 years. Find me a car that can beat an RX400h se-l, GS450h SE-l and LS in spec, performance, economy, and customer service...... thought not.

— ste_u6 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 4:39:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5   

While I sometimes question the end hypothesized result of said greenhouse gases and all the gloom and doom. I think it pertinent to try to not contribute to the problem However I dont see any real good solutions right now other then my diesel. I would prefer to run it on pure biodiesel but I dont have the time to make it anymore.

— consaka (View Profile)

Posted on 7/20/2007 11:55:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I love Lexus, I really do. The article is pretty well written though. Of course there is the writer's opinion in it, but he brings up a lot of relative, side-by-side comparisons that are correct. The numbers back it up, and I'm assuming he wouldn't have the audacity to write as he has, unless he has in fact driven them all, which I have not. Although, I do challenge him in one area, and that's the CO emissions. CO (Carbon Monoxide) is eliminated when the hybrid drivetrain engages at low speeds (city driving & at a stop, and when the car is running relatively cool, the CAT lets it sneak by though when it burns hot to kill the NOX). So I do question that.

On another note, people shopping in that range, for that type of car and power, aren't looking to "save the planet" necessarily. But if you like the Lexus, and others in that same category, and the Lexus is just a little bit better for the environment then the others, then why not buy the Lexus. Furthermore, for us that blog here, we're more into new contemporary style, fun featured, high performance; People that actually buy these cars, are not looking to hit a windy back road in a 5klb sedan, or race 0-60. That's why they have their Ferrari's, Porsche's, etc. So the performance argument does not have much impact on the actual demographic. The buyers do however seek luxury, user friendly interfaces, service, and well built vehicles, and that's where Lexus has invested most of their efforts.

— Lordvader (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 3:40:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Here in Germany the LS600h (normal wheelbase) is actually a lot slower than the LS460. 0-100 kmh in 6.3 says the brochure while the normal LS460 can do 5.7 seconds.

But that's not all, the fuel consumption on the LS600h is actually 3 to 4 litres WORSE! Only in urban driving the LS600h takes the cake but everywhere else (especially the motorway) the LS460 has better fuel economy. The CVT in the LS600h may be very smooth, it becomes irritating and noisy on the Autobahn once you reach 200 and more. An S600 is barely doing 3000 rpm at that speed..

So it's slower, more expensive, a lot heavier, comsumes more fuel and handles bad (the editor said it understeered way too much - this also was an issue on the LS460).

Why would you buy one?

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 3:42:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

This part is not entirely related to the article, but I just want to stir the pot a bit...

In a straight line, according to the Manufacturers, Lexus beats the BMW, but loses to MB, Audi, and Bentley. However, the largest margin is only .9 seconds, and really, that comes down to the driver.

Also, it would be fun to see a comparison between them when they are already rolling, because hybrids are pretty impressive in that area since they deliver almost 100% of their torque instantly due to CVT's, and consequently do not have to wait for the RPM's to kick in. This part I do know about, because I've had the privilege of driving the Honda accord hybrid, the camry hybrid, the prius, the RX400h, and the GS450h. I have not driven the escape, the altima, or civic, but that's it.

Lastly, I read over someone making a comment about the LF-A. I'm sure it will do fine on the performance end. If you need a little more convincing though (which I'm sure you do!) look up the Volta, and read the specs on that car. It exists (courtesy of Toyota) and delivers amazing numbers, the car is just not in production. And BTW, that car was produced like 6 years ago.

But I'm just one guy talking here...

— Lordvader (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 3:54:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Finally, an accurate review of the Hybrid LS. I think other reviewers feel that they had to promote the car through it being supposedly "green".

— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 5:59:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Such a shame that this article really wont stop the sales of the 600hL model. It only gives the haters more opportunity to discuss the anti-Lexus talking points.

Toyota is just covering every aspect of the up and coming hybrid market, which they currently dominate full-force. The idea is that everyone does not want to particularly own an ugly economy car like the Prius or a run-of-the-mill family sedan like the Camry Hybrid just to say they own a hybrid. Luxury cars can be hybrids too. The point of a Lexus hybrid is obviously not to achieve the BEST possible fuel economy, but to use hybrid technology in a similar method to that of turboing or supercharging. Increased power, without sacrificing great fuel economy and emissions.

This is a "hype hybrid." This car has so much buzz around it I think the phrase is quite accurate. It puts the world on notice of another way in which a hybrid drivetrain can be utilized. Improved fuel economy with 70% less emissions than your competition is not enough for you? Then move on, and stop trying to convince the rest of the world that they don't want this car.

Clearly we've been over the sacrifice of trunk space with hybrids. If it's an issue for you, then buy an SUV and don't even worry about this car.

The E-Class comparison is moot. Why stop at an E-Class to get better fuel economy? Ride your bicycle to work everyday, your carbon footprint will be zero to nonexistant.

— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 6:56:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

There are plenty of other useless cars compared to the LS600l, starting with 400hp plus 2 seaters with no real purpose but to burn rubber.

— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 8:37:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

What a terrible article. They chicken pick their facts. Like comparing an S550 which is much slower, and similarly priced, but has same gas mileage. Well, the S550 isn't an SULEV vehicle, nor is any other car in it's class. Even though it may not have an outstanding fuel economy, people will get it for the same reason they got the GS450h, it's exclusive. People don't buy the RX400h over the RX350 to save gas money, they get it for the lower emissions and that instant torque curve brought upon by the electronic motors. NYT is comparing the car's speed to the wrong cars, and the gas mileage to inferior cars, so it totally loses all creditability.

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 9:59:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I'm sure in a article where the ignorant comments of formula1 are being agreed with, my opinion won't matter much. But here goes.

The Lexus hybrid system was never, ever created to be a fuel sipping system ala the Honda Insight.

The Lexus systems used in the RX,GS, and LS hybrids were aimed at creating more power without having a fuel penalty for that extra power. In that respect, each and every Lexus hybrid performs well.

The LS hybrid was designed to offer V-12 style performance while providing greater fuel economy than the average V-12. Again, the LS hybrid does well in this regard.

The LS hybrid has a very small trunk, styling that may not be to your taste, and at limit performance numbers that might not be your cup of tea. But, since Lexus is not forcing anyone here to buy one, that is totally fine.

This writer of this article didn't like this car. Whether or not the reviewer got the point of the car doesn't matter. He didn't like it. But there are obviously others and other reviewers who do like the car and appreciate it for what it is, not what it is not.

I wish some of you people would understand that it is your consistant bitching about all things Lexus that fuels the ignorant Lexus fanboys.

And remember, if this review was one of praise for the car, every single one of you agreeing with it now would be tearing it apart for being uninformed or wrong.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 11:33:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Ever notice that hybrid critics always compare subject hybrid models to lesser models to try and prove a dead point? Look at all the cars this reviewer compared the $121,000 LS600hL to to prove it isn't environmentally friendly: the $60,000 E-Class, $25,000 Camry, the >$10,000 Kia Rio, etc. all of which aren't even as large as the LS, and this happens every time. Is it so obvious that this reviewer has a bias against hybrids that I have to even point this out?

— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 12:14:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Lexus makes better interiors than Bentley or Rolls Royce.

— david989 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 12:39:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

David, you just earned yourself a bullet.

From my gun that is.

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 2:50:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lexus didn't say they were "going green." In terms of Lexus, they are simply showing that an electric motor can be used in the same fashion as a turbo or supercharger. More power, less economical/environmental sacrifice. That's it!

— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 4:14:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

So hybrid for Lexus is more performance? Why does the IS-F then has a 5 litre V8 petrol? No hybrid here yet it is a performance car.

In my opinion hybrids are not performance cars. Going fast in a straight line does not mean performance. The real thing that counts is balance. Balance in handling (it doesn't has any --> too heavy because of the batteries) , balance in the steering (can you say numb, boring, vage, overassisted, ..?) and transmission.(CVT. do I need to say more? it doesn't even has faux-gears like the new 8-speed audi multitronic. mind you audi does not market CVT as sporty)

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 4:59:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

The writer just has some seriously hatred toward a 100k Lexus. When someone goes to that extreme, he will lose all his credibility. Not to mention the guy seriously has no logic at all. He just doesn't want to see an non-Euro 100k car to succeed.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 12:40:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

My BMW 745i used to get 22-24mpg freeway, and had an average of 20mpg in the city. I'm also a driver with 3 points on my lisence, so I do step on it whenver I can. For a hybrid to do only 20-22 mpg and then brag about it as if it were saving the world with this accomplishment is just sad. Plus, Lexus materials will never have the quality of any of the German manufacturers...for example the amount of plastic in the GS vs. the amount in an E class or a 5 series, and just the look of the plastic. I just cant imagine why anyone would get a Lexus instead of a German car other than price, and since the LS is actually more expensive, the notion is just mind blowing. And for those who say the LS is better looking than even a Ford Escort are out of their minds. Comparing the S class to the LS is like comparing Kobe beef to Mcdonalds patties.

— CLK63BlackSeries (View Profile)

Posted on 7/16/2007 10:28:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

well finally the ridiculousness of this car has been exposed in the mainstream media. this car will bite lexus in the ass.

it'll last two model years tops before it withdrawn or completely revamped due to the negative PR.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/17/2007 1:31:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

there is no way to justify or defend this car boys.
so deboost and complain all you want.
this thing is an edsel.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/17/2007 1:32:56 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I think i'll wait to see how it does sales wise before I conclude that its a flop. If people really cared about the environment they wouldn't be driving at all, least of all driving around in a large luxury sedan. No matter what the fuel savings, the more fuel you burn the more Co2 you put out.

— Kinger (View Profile)

Posted on 7/17/2007 5:25:58 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Just proves toyota is about marketing and not about building good cars!

— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 7/17/2007 8:47:49 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Someone where I work just got a brand new black Mercedes AMG S65.

Com'on folks, it doesn't get much better than that.

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/17/2007 8:35:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Toyota Avalon + Maybach 57 = LS600

and still, not quite as good as BMW 5 series.

— MrGunFun (View Profile)

Posted on 7/18/2007 2:33:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Not a big fan of lexus, but its an opinion column, so its not the most reliable source.

— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/18/2007 11:07:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1