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Traction Control May Leave Prius Owners Stranded in the Cold

Agent009 submitted on 02/02/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:01 PM
from: www.consumeraffairs.com

[76] user comments | category: Spy Shots

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Traction Control May Leave Prius Owners Stranded in the Cold

The Toyota Prius is known to occasionally shut down its hybrid engine system for no apparent reason, wear tires quickly and unevenly, even drain a battery dry when parked for an extended period.

But here's one of the oddest Prius stories on file at ConsumerAffairs.Com:

"When my car is on any kind of slick surface that causes one of the front wheels to slip, ALL power to the drive system is stopped," wrote Christopher of Reston, Virginia.

This past weekend I was on a snow-covered road with about an 8- to 10-degree grade. Driving at 20 miles per hour, one tire began to slip on the snow and the car came to a stop. The wheels then refused to engage, because one would slip a little, regardless of throttle position," he wrote.

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Willis - 2/2/2007 2:17:58 PM

+2 Boost

"Unreliable"?

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Agent009 - 2/2/2007 2:37:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I wouldn't go as far as say unreliable, but at least a concern under the right conditions. I am not aware of a single gasoline only model that would do that. It is an odd quirk.

EL34 - 2/2/2007 2:36:52 PM

+1 Boost

lol

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EL34i - 2/2/2007 5:05:43 PM

0 Boost

Is that the reaction of your real estate colleagues, when they see your lack of business acumen?

1970toyotamarc - 2/2/2007 5:56:21 PM

0 Boost

This isnt necessarily a problem, as the traction control is doing its job, by not allowing the vehicle to skid out of control. And it is not only an issue on Priuses or hybrids, other passenger cars with traction control have this issue. You either have to accept that TC will control your car in certain situations, or opt not to use it. (What I dont know is if it can be disabled in a Prius, but it certainly can in other cars.)

TC is still so new, and there are a lot of real world experiences yet to be shared. Hopefully others have good insight into this, and that this post doesnt just turn into a Prius bash.

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Rupert - 2/2/2007 6:06:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

but a normal TC would prevent skidding but keep the wheels moving, slowly.
this seems very odd, maybe it's just this guy's car.

tcrowley88 - 2/4/2007 9:32:56 AM

+1 Boost

Hey Toyota Mark, Where have you been? You state TC is so new but in reality it has been out for over ten years. Then you go on to say this is not a problem.
Maybe it is "new" to your beloved Toyota and they are having problems no one else has. We all know how good they are at hiding problems.

Matthew1 - 2/2/2007 6:26:27 PM

+2 Boost

"Traction Control May Leave Prius Owners Stranded in the Cold"

Just driving the Prius is enough to leave you feeling cold.

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jt716 - 2/2/2007 6:30:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Haha Matthew that was a good one! I would rather drive a Ford Escape Hybrid or Honda Accord Hybrid

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chewy - 2/2/2007 7:27:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Owned. Owned. Owned. Man, that is hilariosu stuff right here. Sure hope they don't get rear ended by a semi.

BTW, why do lots of Prius drivers drive with their headlights on during perfectly sunny days? They should know that it ruins their fuel economy.

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huu76 - 2/2/2007 8:15:25 PM

-1 Boost

Chewy,
Are you really that stupid? I can't believe you actually asked that "featured writer". Never heard of daytime running lights? You must've blown a load when you read "Toyota" and "stranded" in the title and didn't even bother reading the article.

Here's one, why do diesels have 8 million ft.lbs of torque when they can do just fine with 150ft.lbs and burn way less oil.

EL,
Out goes one real estate weasel, in comes another. Did you see MDalle on your way in?

009,
Personally, I don't believe this story. Either he exaggerated it or he doesn't know how to drive. 4 or 5 inches of snow and 10 degrees, what a joke. Must've been in Florida with summer tires. This guy would die in Canada. Hell, he'd probably perish in NY.
I guess he'd rather the wheels spin out and watch his car gradually slide sideways (and be really screwed then). Moron probably never tried backing up and taking a run at the hill, or speed bump is more like it.

Our old Pontiac Sunfire used to fire off the ABS on dry pavement whenever our tires got too worn out. So technology doesn't always work properly. I've had the Sunfire stuck in snow (real snow), and frustratingly enough, the tire you want to spin doesn't. Must be the gas engine disengaging.

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chewy - 2/2/2007 9:35:07 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

No, not Daytime Running Lights. HEADLIGHTS with the REAR LIGHT ON DURING THE DAY. I bet those Prius buyers want to show to everyone that they are driving a Prius and turn on the HEAD LIGHTS (you can see the rear light on, you idiot) but don't even know that they are using up energy for no reason.

Read this part.

"His Toyota service manager told Christopher that he was able to duplicate the symptoms on a level snow covered surface and apparently achieved the same results with two other Prius cars that were in the dealership fleet.

But after reporting the problem to Toyota, the service manager told Christopher that the Prius was operating as designed.

Christopher said that he "will consider this vehicle unsafe for road use under any snow or ice conditions and frankly feel that if all Prius vehicles are designed to do this someone ought to look into the situation to try to force Toyota to modify the design."

Diesels have no reason to limit their torque as long as the transmission can handle it. More torque at lower RPM means that the diesel can move the vehicle easily without increasing enginen RPM and using up fuel. The end result produces diesel's great fuel economy.

Matthew1 - 2/2/2007 8:54:02 PM

+4 Boost

"frustratingly enough, the tire you want to spin doesn't"

Gee, I wonder why. Differential anyone?

"Here's one, why do diesels have 8 million ft.lbs of torque when they can do just fine with 150ft.lbs and burn way less oil."

Stupid comment of the week. But then I guess you owned a Pontiac Sunfire, so one might assume your concept of what makes a good car is somewhat skewed from reality.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/2/2007 11:16:12 PM

+1 Boost

Chewy,
No, a V10 diesel burns a little more oil than a 1.9L I4. Diesel's economy comes from driving on the highway, not stop and go traffic. You ever notice the huge amounts of smog emitted when buses/trucks start off? Probably not.
Ever see some moron driving around in a V10 diesel thinking he's saving energy?

Mathew,
That wasn't a question. I was stating that my car was doing what it was intended to (just like the Prius' TRAC). I'm sure the GM dealership could reproduce the symptoms of me getting stuck also. Try looking up sarcasm as well.

Christopher will consider this car unsafe. Well, I'll consider him an unsafe driver because he can't even navigate something as simple as a junior hill.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/2/2007 11:18:41 PM

+1 Boost

Chewy,
Most ppl don't need more than 150ft.lbs, so VW decides to give them 500 instead, who cares if it meedlessly burns oil. Not a problem since only N.America pollutes.

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chewy - 2/2/2007 11:28:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You still didn't answer my Prius question.

The V10 TDI is for the Touareg which is a genuine offroader. Sorry but you must be used to cars without torque, 150 doesn't really cut it for anything. Get the point, the extra torque on the diesel doesn't waste fuel as diesels are still the most fuel efficient piston engines on the planet. It just makes up for lower RPM and "sometimes" slightly lower horsepower.

chewy - 2/2/2007 11:33:14 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

BTW, the Lexus LS 600h doesn't need 400+ hp, what a fuel waster.

S4cabriofoxone - 2/3/2007 11:08:49 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

huu76, Toyota makes its fair share of horrifically inefficient engines. You know why Honda is the most "green" car manufacturer, but Toyota isn't? The Land Cruiser's 4.7L V8. Sure it's a nice car (people will strike back), blah, blah blah... but that's not the point. The car gets 12mpg and has 270hp from a MASSIVE 4.7L V8. The Q7 V12 TDI (another hi-po diesel) gets 20mpg and has 500hp and 700lb ft of torque from what, a 6.0L V12?

huu76 - 2/2/2007 11:36:56 PM

-2 Boost

Do you need 500ft.lbs of torque? If not, then you're wasting fuel. If the extra torque doesn't need more fuel, then why doesn't the I4 make 500lbs?
Sorry, the Touareg is not a real offroader. Offroaders have solid axles for rock climbing and durability.
I think you're full of crap about the lights on during the day. Yeah, I said it.

What question? Where? Write it down and I'll answer it.

A real issue was when the Prius' software shut the engine off, not this tard who can't drive. I can't believe the Toyota guy claimed a 10 degree grade is steep.

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truckmen - 2/4/2007 4:24:39 AM

0 Boost

hue76 you are right! The Touareg isn't even close to being a true off roader! Toyota is slipping badly! If they keep this up they will be worse than a Dodge! I now like the Honda best for reliability and fuel mielage.The new tundra sucks badly from what my exeptations are from a truck! Toyotas reputation as a fuel efficient reliable vehicle are fading fast!

huu76 - 2/2/2007 11:53:46 PM

-1 Boost

lol, the LS460 already has better fuel economy than the V10 diesel. The LS600hl will have V12 power with even better fuel economy (and a SULEV rating). The extra power is free since the electric motor isn't using any additonal fuel (to charge the batteries) that wouldn't already be burned anyway.

Just out of curiosity, does the V10 Touareg have to pay gas guzzler tax? Its gross weight is high enough to be exempted but its mileage is still low enough to get dinged. The V6 and V8 for sure qualify unless they're heavy enough.

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chewy - 2/3/2007 1:00:06 AMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Nope, no gas guzzler tax because it is an SUV. No SUV and pickups pay the gas guzzler tax, but they all SHOULD/MUST. Which is a shame. The EPA taxes around 50,000 cars (with SUV/pickup like fuel economy) but allows about 8 million SUVs/pickups to guzzle and pollute without any gas guzzler tax.

The V10 TDI is an older diesel so its fuel economy is good but not grat. It is still one of the most fuel efficient real SUVs, especially when power/torque are considered. The V12 TDI with more power/torque gets better fuel economy. The LS 600h will still use up quite a lot of fuel, why can't it have a 200 hp engine from the Camry, as I am sure that would get better fuel economy.

huu76 - 2/2/2007 11:54:12 PM

-3 Boost

btw, my Jeep has plenty of torque.

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silent_power - 2/4/2007 10:45:43 AM

+1 Boost

What makes you think that bio-diesel is cleaner?

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huu76 - 2/3/2007 1:35:11 AM

-1 Boost

renlex,
True, biodiesel is cleaner, but I hear its not very efficient in the sense its too inefficient (production, then refining and it gets less mileage). I know E85 fuel vehicles seem horrible (i.e. E85 GMC Sierra only gets 60% mileage).

Chewy,
They already have the GS450h. If demand warrants it, they could always make a smaller hybrid LS. The LS460's EPA is 19/27, the LS60hl will be a little higher. The V10/V12 get epa of 17/23 and even the Bluetec probably won't make 50 state with the new standards.

Even if they did charge the gas tax on trucks, I doubt it'd make a difference. Except for Hummers, most trucks would probably pay less than $1000.

reply to this comment

chewy - 2/3/2007 3:14:00 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Actually not true on all of those accounts. I personally have no problem with a vehicle that gets 20-30 mpg. Or even sports cars/sedans as those are sold in trivial amounts, those 8 million SUVs/pickups are the "trouble makers"

The average SUV/pickup would have a 3,700 dollar gas guzzler tax, something that would "The purpose of the Gas Guzzler Tax is to discourage the production and purchase of fuel inefficient vehicles"

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#guzzler

Why are your comparing an SUV with a sedan? I am just saying that the V10/V12 TDI is the LS600 of the diesel world, more power by using more fuel. You can't have it both ways.

chewy - 2/3/2007 3:18:05 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Actually the gas guzzler tax for an average SUV/pickup should be around 2,100 (there is a different calculation)

Still that would do what the gas guzzler tax is designed to do. Currently it doesn't as seen by 8 million or so 16 MPG (combined) vehicles sold each year.

S4cabriofoxone - 2/3/2007 11:03:33 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I'm waiting for recall #287.

reply to this comment

Threepoint1415926 - 2/3/2007 7:32:12 PM

+4 Boost

This is scary. I dont see how people could possibly say that the wheels need to stop instead of slip for "safety." I'm tired of the idea that slow = safe. Denver has had some really bad weather this year and my E430 sport with summer tires is just not the car to drive in it but I have on occasion. I turn the traction control OFF when I need to get around town. I learned that the hard way after traction control physically stopped me mid turn while turning right with oncoming traffic. In my estimation, being able to control your car yourself in instances like that is 10 times better than having an old computer think it out for you. There is just no calculating the human factor.

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SilverAero - 2/3/2007 8:24:55 PM

0 Boost

This reminds me of that cts-v video, accept this time a company that is idiolized by idiots (aka. the American general public)is shown to be less than perfect. Next time some one brings up the "lousy gm quality" i will bring up this article.

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SilverAero - 2/3/2007 8:26:54 PM

0 Boost

Im sorry idiot was not the right word, mabey Moronic Drones, that is a more fitting description for most Americans looking for a car.

huu76 - 2/3/2007 10:09:48 PM

+1 Boost

Did you read the post above yours? Mercedes has the same problem except they let you turn it off.

Toyota and Mercedes better recall all cars with traction control hmmm?

I've got plenty of articles myself, so we'll see who outlasts who.

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huu76 - 2/4/2007 12:12:03 PM

+1 Boost

SVT,
You miss the article that named pretty much every company, including German ones, that had engine sludge recalls?

The big surprise is that Toyota's expansion has recently caused problems. For everyone else, recalls were just business as usual even when they sell fewer cars (i.e. VW and MB).

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/4/2007 1:33:11 PM

+1 Boost

You new ppl should learn to trust me. I never said anyone was getting sued, just that everyone has the same problem.

google this and see what comes up. "engine sludge recalls"

This one lists most major manufacturers.
http://www.crash-worthiness.com/html/oil-sludge.html

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silent_power - 2/4/2007 2:17:10 PM

+1 Boost

Hello there lightningSVT. is FUTURE is biodiesel algae? Till then, biodiesel is destruction of forests in Amazon Brazil, Borneo, Malaisya, Thailand, and the list goes on...
How much does it cost scarce wildlife, deforestations, devastating floods causing deaths? Aha! 20 cents per litre! Good for ya sucker!
njoy your big fat ass in those flexible palm trees ...

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/4/2007 2:56:56 PM

+1 Boost

SVT,
Did you read Chrysler refuses to acknowledge the problem? Nice try at dodging the facts. Weren't expecting such a quick shoot down were we?

Anyway, this loser wouldn't be going to work for the next month if here lived here. 24-30" of snow, he'd probably die from not being able to go grocery shopping.
Funny, I see plenty of Matrixes, Civics and Spectras going up and down slopes just fine (and they're a bit higher than 10 degrees).

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/4/2007 7:18:56 PM

+1 Boost

SVT,
What does the # of complaints matter? I guess VW's 500,000 recalls didn't actually happen because no one recorded the # of complaints. No recorded complaints, no actual problem. Is that the German secret?
2800 complaints against Chrysler if you really do care.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/automobiles/04SLUDGE.html
VW admitted it but I guess it didn't really happen since no complaints were recorded?
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/vw_sludge.html
It's sort of funny how they estimate Toyota could have 3.3 million recalls (because they sold so many) but VW isn't sure how many of its units will be affected. What a joke, just like you.

Anyway, I await for your reply :) I can already tell you're running out of steam.

What are you going to say next, "but focus on the 3400 complaints"?

Everyone has this problem, you're just stupid enough to try and pinpoint Toyota as the only culprit.

Just a tip but more sales mean more recalls when you actually have one. Try checking the actual # of units affected if you're smart enough.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/4/2007 9:24:13 PM

+1 Boost

LOL, try harder.

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huu76 - 2/4/2007 11:05:11 PM

+1 Boost

I have better things to do than sit here waiting.

Owned??? Here's a loonie, go buy a clue. Saab is GM and it uses the 2.0L EcoTec from the Sunfire/Cavalier. It's obvious you didn't read it the first time.
http://www.crash-worthiness.com/html/oil-sludge.html

Why doesn't anyone complain, perhaps they've considered it normal for so long. It's good that GM/Ford are finally turning quality around.

Anyway, try again. Do yourself a favour and think before you type.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/4/2007 11:07:56 PM

+1 Boost

btw, a complaint does not constitue a recall. This retard can't drive and he thinks its the car's fault.

You can get over anxious about the # of complaints all you want. It doesn't change the fact GM/Ford aren't there yet in terms of quality/reliability. They're headed in the right direction though, but not there.

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rack - 2/5/2007 2:41:26 AM

+1 Boost

"This Prius article proves that Toyota's reliability and quality is overhyped! Toyotas are junk!"

This article proves nothing. My wife's IS350 is horrible in the snow. It goes almost nowhere. So instead of spinning and slipping this car just simply shuts down instead of going nowhere?

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silent_power - 2/5/2007 12:14:38 PM

+1 Boost

You re so typical west-thinking arrogant! Check out what you ve written: << last time I checked, Michigan does not have any palm trees.>>

Exactly lightningSVT. You care only for your big fat ass country-town. You don't give a damn about destruction in other parts of Earth. That explains your sick way of thinking about bio-fuels...
Makes you wonder what future to be expected for life, when people are so mindless...

reply to this comment

silent_power - 2/5/2007 2:20:40 PM

+1 Boost

lightningSVT
paparokefte,
paliokourada amerikanikh, paparomalaka, mounopano tou kerata,
emena tha peis ypokriti? gamo to kerato sas paliopoustrakia amerikanoi tsoglania, kala sas kanoume kai sas gamane oi taliban. alla eseis den katalabenete, thelete ki allo! PSOLES ths kouradomhxanhs!!! aei sixtir mounopana aderfes kai jaderfes... esti na gamiosaste panta.

reply to this comment

silent_power - 2/5/2007 4:50:14 PM

+1 Boost

<< Your an idoit! This is an English language page!>>

Your an i do it?

Hey lightningSVT this is an English language page!GTFO!

reply to this comment

silent_power - 2/5/2007 5:56:45 PM

+1 Boost

<<Hybrids are a scam! They are worthless.>>

hahahaha!Hey lightningSVT. You dont have to convince us. Go persuade your "american-way of thinking" automakers not to build hybrids. hahaha

<<The Toyota Prius is a Tin can. If a Prius owner pulls out in front of a big American SUV or SEMI truck, ITS OVER!>>

Etsi etsi, autos einai o gnostos amerikanikos tropos skepsis.
Telika oute poulaki exeis, anikeis kathara sto trito fylo. katakei meria pou eisai, psakse gia kanena palikari melampso me prosonta... tha se boithisi na xalaroseis...

reply to this comment

huu76 - 2/5/2007 9:26:32 PM

-1 Boost

SVT,
GM has been #1 but headed down hill. Yeah, something to be proud off. It may not be the new Ecotec engine (if you knew the history, Saab helped design the Ecotec, so they learned from their previous mistakes), but it's still a GM product that had the sludge problem.

btw, GM purchased 50% of Saab in 1989, and they bought it outright in 2000. Don't try to pass off GM as having nothing to do w/ that Saab recall.

You're so perceptive, stating I posted the same link again after I stated it. Wow.

Vous etes une representation pauvre d'America. Tu parle sans pensee.

Now get into your flag pickup truck and go buy some flag crap at Wal-mart so you can send more jobs overseas Cletus.

The doesn't know how to drive. I've seen a Jaguar XJ go sideways up a hill, so I'm pretty sure a Prius can climb a 10 degree grade if the driver wasn't mentally challenged. Again, you would be excluded from that category.

reply to this comment

rack - 2/6/2007 9:48:43 AM

0 Boost

Anyone who pulls out in front of a semi truck is game over.

Even in your pretend mullet mobile.

The 0-60 in 5.1 GS450h is worthless. Besides the worthless mustangs what vehicle that ford offer have this kind of sprint time, but will still get MPG in the upper 20's?

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