OBSERVER1984
OBSERVER1984
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What do we actully drive!?!
Where's the time when each automaker has its own style, traditions and worth!?!

It's gone!

Now there are few automakers, better said moneymakers that bought all small companies and transformed them in ordinary, common, impersonal carcompanies. In the past the cars were unique, now they are just cheap and easy to get.

What do we actually buy now!?! Why should we pay more money for a car, that we can buy for less money!?! Think about it! Let's take for example Europen Ford Focus, Volvo S40 and Mazda 3. Why do you need to pay so much for a S40, when you can buy the same car for less money if you take Mazda for example? What, you don't have enough money for a Mazda!?! Do not worry, you can buy Focus and you will have exactly the same car again! These three models are made in Spain at one and the same platform.
What about Saab 9-7? When you hear about Saab your first toughts will be special, unique, different, swedish... Are you sure? Think again! This actually is just different hood over Chevy platform and it's American!!!
Even the symbol of American SUVs, the icon of all SUVs HUMMER H2 is not a real HUMMER it's Chevy platform again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why, why do they do that?
For less costs!?!

If that's the big problem just cut the loosers off, better a dead automaker, than a fake one! Where's the point to have few different companies, with different names and same cars but with different prices!?! Are the people so stupid to buy a name not a car? I don't thik so. If the big corporations have moneytroubles that's their own problem, then why must we, customers, be the victims?

They just killed the competition! Carmakers that before some years were competitors between eachother now make same engines and I'm not talking about ordinary carmakers, I'm talking about supercars like Ferrari and Maserati and it's not just them, porsche, audi, jaguar, land rover, and so on...

And now the most craziest news: GM wants to buy Chrysler Group.
Just think about it!
Do you believe that Walter Chrysler or Dodge Brothers would be agree with this - the biggest competitor GM to buy them. No I believe that they would preffer to go bankrupt, because they had worth and honour!!!

So ask yourself for a question:

WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY DRIVE!?!



Comments:

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jon21jon21 - 2/19/2007 4:39:51 PM
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A car or truck. ;)

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/19/2007 4:40:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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Cool down with the exclamation points, man.

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GreenlightGreenlight - 2/19/2007 4:42:39 PM
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SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

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OBSERVER1984OBSERVER1984 - 2/19/2007 6:13:01 PM
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Look I know that I'm not saying something that the other don't know, but point is why we're keeping mum!?!


kart1kart1 - 2/19/2007 4:47:44 PM
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ummmh, did you just figure this out or something? You seem really disappointed right now. I knew all the things that you have said - and I think (really I do) that these types of things are a good idea. Why? because they help companies survive and keep providing us with cheaper cars. There are certain differences between models even though the platform is different. Trust me a Tahoe cannot do what a Hummer can off road. If it weren't for platform sharing, etc. most of the companies in the world would be exactly were GM is right now (if they'd actually survive that long).

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OBSERVER1984OBSERVER1984 - 2/19/2007 6:07:09 PM
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OK and Cadillac was actually the first Ford Motors, before Henry Ford to go out and to make his own company - FMC, but that doesn't make Ford and GM "friends".

If Chrysler wanted to stay at the top of GM, he would, but he wanted his own make, his own car, different of GM!!!!

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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 2/19/2007 5:42:02 PM
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the Mazda3 isn't built in Spain, it's built in Japan. And it's not "the same car" as the Focus or the S40, though it does share 42% of its components with the S40 and probably a good percentage with the Focus as well. The Mazda3 chassis was the result of a design collaboration between Mazda and Volvo.

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RupertRupert - 2/19/2007 5:55:53 PMView My AgentSpace
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the euro focus has the same platform as those cars.


OBSERVER1984OBSERVER1984 - 2/19/2007 6:10:58 PM
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Excuse me it's Mazda 2 and it's made in Valencia Spain together with European Focus


RupertRupert - 2/19/2007 7:30:56 PMView My AgentSpace
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the mazda 2 is based of the european ford fusion, which is nothing like the american fusion.


SlalomSlalom - 2/23/2007 9:09:44 AM
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OBSERVER1984, you're an idiot...


aussiecarnutaussiecarnut - 2/19/2007 5:48:32 PM
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remember, X5's are made in America and 3 series BMW's are made in South Africa!!! So much for BMW's 'German excellence'

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BimmerFanBimmerFan - 2/19/2007 6:06:22 PM
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...with German engines and mostly German parts... hey, car companies are moving to find cheap land and cheap labor....


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/19/2007 9:47:11 PMView My AgentSpace
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And there are Mercedes and Audi models made all over the world, also. I believe all three companies have factories in China.


SohoSoho - 2/23/2007 10:22:27 AM
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The Chinese made European cars are only for the Chinese markets and are not exported out. Their quality is not the same as their European namesakes either.


no1listensanywayno1listensanyway - 2/19/2007 6:38:08 PMView My AgentSpace
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Oh man, you are going to hear it from the Toyo/Lexus guys for that comment. I wish you best of luck.

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GTR35GTR35 - 2/19/2007 11:46:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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Sure they're pricier than their parent company just like Audi is to VW, but at least they're not simply Overpriced like MB or even BMW's (I love BMWs BTW). In order to get the performance of a G35 or M from the German competitors you need to spend ten to twenty grand more. But, I also think Lexus is the ultimate Ripoff like LeMansFan said.

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SohoSoho - 2/23/2007 10:32:44 AM
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Audi and VW had long and storied histories as independent car companies before the VW Group bought Audi. Although there is component sharing (why buy someone if not for synergies?), both companies are still managed independently with cars built in distinct facilites. Their respective branded banks although in the same building have different personnel. On the other hand, one day, Toyota and Nissan decided they needed to create a luxury brand, hence the birth of new nameplates. I will grant they have done an excellent job with their luxury nameplates, but comparing their "heritage" to the Germans is rather naive.

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jt716jt716 - 2/19/2007 6:56:28 PMView My AgentSpace
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No he is right look at the Lexus GX n look at the Toyota Landcruiser Prado it looks the same just a bit diff here n there

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answeranswer - 2/19/2007 7:01:21 PMView My AgentSpace
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In an era of globalization and huge auto companies owning various brand names you are left with only one mindset. That is to not give a rat's ass about where something is made and instead focus on the end product itself.

If the Bugatti Veyron was made on the island of misfit toys and assembled by elderly women, what would it really matter as long as the car itself is what you want?



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maltbarleymaltbarley - 2/19/2007 7:27:27 PM
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Does this site not have a copy editor?

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no1listensanywayno1listensanyway - 2/19/2007 10:47:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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No, going along with the trend of cutting costs in the Auto world, Autospies are also cutting costs.


BimmerFanBimmerFan - 2/20/2007 12:38:23 AM
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expect a nasty email from 001...I got one for posting my thoughts.... censorship does exist.


huu76huu76 - 2/19/2007 8:36:47 PM
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Toyota, minus Lexus, makes more money than BMW will ever see and they do it by employing highly paid workers in N.America and Japan.

BMW/VW build their cars in sweatshops and still can barely make any decent money even when their customers allow themselves to get ripped off. Unfortunately for BMW/VW, there aren't that many stupid ppl out there who are more interested in a badge than a car.

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SohoSoho - 2/23/2007 10:39:39 AM
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huu76: Sweatshops? Have you ever even seen pictures of the incredible production facilities the Germans use? To name one, did you know the Phaeton assembly plant is outfited with noiseless power equipment so you can actually speak in whispers next to a car being assembled? Not to speak of the fact that you can see your face in the assembly line floors, being as clean and shiny as they are? Sweatshops, indeed.


webguywebguy - 2/19/2007 9:46:22 PM
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You sound(read) pretty upset. (Reminds me of the Apple commercial... "You are coming to a sad realization. Allow or deny?")

First, calm down. Breathe deeply. Think little fluffy clouds. There’s even a song by The Orb on iTunes about them, go download it if you have to.

Second, go test drive the cars you mentioned. They’re not the same... save for the European Focus, possibly, of which I’ll admit I have no experience with.

Third, yes, platform sharing is done for cost and (just as important) time savings, and no it does not make the people or the company that engage in this stupid. On the contrary. In fact, the LACK of platform sharing is one of Ford’s bigger problems (other than those pesky employees). Each division has been largely developing its own solutions, hence the financial problems... not the other way around.

Fourth, the point of having different brands are different images, different engineers and different designers. Ideally, designers and engineers spend more time on developing and refining unique qualities of their brand instead of being bogged down by problems that another branch of the company has already solved. The problem with this is larger companies, especially, are having a difficult time sorting out and sharing the best solutions... in that I can see your frustration; but it’s the implementation not the concept that’s flawed. Still, similar door handles or similar engine blocks do not make for exact cars which only differ in price.

Fifth, GM even wanting to buy Chrysler is just a rumor, and probably nothing more than a boardroom joke and a sensationalized headline for BusinessWeek. GM actually appears to be on a turn-around, I doubt senior management really wants this distraction.


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/19/2007 9:49:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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You don't cease to amaze me with your deep comments for AutoSpies. Are you not phased by the never-ending flame wars?


webguywebguy - 2/20/2007 12:08:37 AM
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To some extent, the wars are why I come here. I prefer the diverse crowd and opinions over the circle-jerk of single brand sites. Yeah, there’s a clear chromosome shortage behind some of the posts, but much of it is just aberrant entertainment for me; and the admins actively remove the blatant and consistent trollers.


ronnsscoobyronnsscooby - 2/19/2007 10:04:06 PM
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That was my point. Thats why i own a subie, but this website shuns me. Subaru is one of the most cutting edge car manufactuerers out there. Sometimes(most) thier design sucks, but thier performance, and bang for the buck are undeniable. I like Bimmer, Audi, and Mercedes, but show me something new and different, and affordable at the same time.----and by the way make it perform like a supercar.

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vcowmanvcowman - 2/19/2007 10:11:31 PM
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I respects subaru, but would rather own a BMW (at the moment I can afford it).

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ronnsscoobyronnsscooby - 2/19/2007 10:16:29 PM
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I have owned a few bimmers, I like them a lot (good fit and finish), But they do not perform for under 60Gs like the subies. If i could spend 90 Gs on a car i would buy a bimmer. Anything less i wouldnt.

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stevenv1999stevenv1999 - 2/19/2007 10:57:56 PM
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As far as platform sharing, it is not just to cut costs, but to offer a better platform no matter where a vehicle fits in the product range (Focus, Volvo, etc...). The tuning, content and style of the vehicle is where each company has the freedom to appeal to it's base customer. I always thought a Ford Escort for instance (and this is out there!), should have had a better chassis. Instead it was a rattle trap and lacked anything resembling refinement. The other thing about platform sharing is each of the companies that are going to share a new platform have requirements and these requirements are taken into consideration when the platform design team engineers a new chassis. Everyone wins.

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ronnsscoobyronnsscooby - 2/19/2007 11:12:20 PM
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okay you say ford."i agree", but what are you getting at? I am not talking run of the mill cars, im talking one step above.( by the way i have a legacy spec b, not a wrx). I guess i am saying at what point do you seperate price for actuall performance and quality for the badge?

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stevenv1999stevenv1999 - 2/20/2007 12:14:10 AM
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I was of course just using Ford as an example as this can be any manufactuer these days. My point is, why aren't all engineered chassis's capable of an NVH with a minimum of 25Hz? That means every car's chassis, not just expensive ones. Content and of course perceived value is what drives up costs of any vehicle. I do not feel slighted if my Volvo (I do not own one) is riding on the same platform as a Ford Focus. I will judge any vehicle I purchase, based on how it compares with other vehicles in that segment and my needs. As far as your main point being price, performance and quality for any given marque and how platform sharing fits into this scenario? See above for how I feel about just sharing the platform. As far as performance and quality, I will use a stick home as an example: All houses are basically framed exactly the same, but then a more expensive house uses more insillation then a cheaper house and already that house despite having the same exact framing is of better quality. That same analogy can be used for better quality appliances or cabinets. Remember the framing is still the same on both houses and that part of the build is still of a high standard, just like the cars sharing the same high quality platform. It is about what is added to the chassis that sets the marques apart, not just the platform alone, because that is only a foundation.


2JZSoarer2JZSoarer - 2/19/2007 11:49:39 PM
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Yeah I drive a Toyota Soarer twin turbo(Lexus SC300),the brand doesn't mean crap to me,because I know that my cars is fast,reliable,and pretty luxurious,it's the total package!!

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ronnsscoobyronnsscooby - 2/20/2007 9:41:38 PM
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I agree with you stevenv to a certain extent. Who cares about the tuning of the frame being transferred to another car. But at what point do you pay too much for interior or looks when the high priced car cant outperform the 30g one. i want the total package and if i spend close to , or over a hundred Gs that car better beat any car priced(stock) at 30Gs.

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