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Tags: BMW, Lexus

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What would you rather buy - the cheaper BMW M3 Sedan or the Lexus IS-F?
Lexus had set BMW’s M3 as a benchmark when producing their competitor for the high-performance sedan segment. According to Yukihiko Yaguchi, chief engineer for the Lexus IS-F, “Since we were coming after the M3, there were numerical targets we had to hit.”

If you take a look at the technical specs of both cars, Lexus did a tremendous job at hitting their targets. The Lexus IS-F is powered by a 5.0L direct-injection V8 engine that produces 416hp with a peak torque of 371 lb-ft. 0-62 comes in at 4.9 seconds with a top speed of 200mph. The 2008 BMW M3 Sedan on the other hand, is powered by a smaller 4.0L V8 engine that produces a 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque. 0-60 time is the same as the Lexus IS-F coming in at 4.9 seconds.

But, both auto makers recently released the pricing for their mid-sized high-performance onslaught and surprise - the BMW M3 Sedan is cheaper by $1,425.

The Lexus IS-F... Read Article
What would you rather buy - the cheaper BMW M3 Sedan or the Lexus IS-F?



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pushrod27pushrod27 - 1/29/2008 6:03:06 PM
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ILikeLamboILikeLambo - 1/29/2008 6:48:11 PM
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could not agree more

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ILikeLamboILikeLambo - 1/29/2008 6:48:27 PM
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could not agree more

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Auto_expertAuto_expert - 1/30/2008 12:04:21 PM
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I think question was meant to be a joke in all seriousness. I see the IS-Forgettable following in the footsteps of the Acura NSX.

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Auto_expertAuto_expert - 1/30/2008 12:05:10 PM
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I think the question was meant to be a joke in all seriousness. I see the IS-Forgettable following in the footsteps of the Acura NSX.

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IVANURI97IVANURI97 - 1/29/2008 10:20:42 AM
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Neither honestly. I would rather get something else. If I had to pick, can't believe I am saying it, it's like picking the worse of two evils...I would have to get the M3.

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pushrod27pushrod27 - 1/29/2008 6:04:38 PM
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'Neither honestly'

Honestly, your response is unnecessary. If you're not interested in either car, WHY DID YOU JOIN THE THREAD? Are you just that desperate to be heard (or read?)


IVANURI97IVANURI97 - 1/31/2008 10:38:50 PM
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I simply answered the question, no reason to get defensive...I don't like either, just like I don't like your comment. Sorry you don't like my answer.


G_riderG_rider - 1/29/2008 12:36:47 PM
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the thing is, its a toyota, and who knows how long that'll take. lol

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bulldogzbulldogz - 1/29/2008 1:58:45 PM
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so lemme get this straight, you're now back as "Rosko2", but with the same idiotic opinions/statements as "Rosko", right?

as it is, I think based on the scenario you describe, you'd have to be old enough to have your driver's license, but I guess you can dream for the next 2 years.

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bluedartbluedart - 1/31/2008 10:39:40 PM
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you are such a dramma queen. I didn't know homos are roaming here.

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BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 1/29/2008 10:35:50 AMView My AgentSpace
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The M3 is the best bang for the buck and nothing is even close ... the article forgot the free full maint, which is another $ 3k of savings over 4 years. faster, more room, manual gearbox and soon to be debut of M-DKG ...

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Agent004Agent004 - 1/30/2008 1:34:06 PMView My AgentSpace
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I was going to point out the same thing. The 4 Year Free Maintenance is a BIG savings.

The IS-F has a few things going for it too, though, the SMG like tranny is super smooth, the torque and the sound it makes when you hit 3500RPM.

I'd probably get the 335 Sedan and chip it :)


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 1/29/2008 12:29:24 PM
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over 1.2MM people every year. great looking cars that are a blast to drive. reality.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 1/30/2008 1:10:15 AM
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"its the same car in different sizes. reality."

yeah, the X6, 3-series, 7-series, Z4, etc are really just the same car....except they share no body panels, are different vehicle types, and have an array of different powertrains.

you're a schmuck.

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kpaxxkpaxx - 1/29/2008 10:46:06 AM
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answeranswer - 1/29/2008 12:53:01 PMView My AgentSpace
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You're off to a lousy start.

Rosko2 ?

Yet another sequel nobody was asking for.

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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/29/2008 10:52:02 AM
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I'd take the M3 without hesitation, since I think the IS-F looks like something a tuner created for Fast and Furious 4. But even as a BMW enthusiast it should be noted that those are base prices, and with similar equipment the M3 will be several thousand dollars more than the IS-F. There's about $10k in available options on the M3.


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phantom330phantom330 - 1/29/2008 10:53:59 AM
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M3 sedan, no question about it. IS-F hasn't proven to be a time tested powerhouse like M models have in the past. I like the IS-F, but given the choice I'll take the M anyday of the week.

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WhelanWhelan - 1/29/2008 10:57:00 AM
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Another thread to start fights. Can't we just wait for the IS-F and M3 sedan to finally come out so we can read a comparo through MT or some other place then do our bickering.

People will buy BMWs cause they are BMWs, but that does not mean people will buy a Lexus cause they think it's the cheaper alternative. Different tastes apply.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 1/29/2008 12:31:16 PM
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the M3 is worth more either way.

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stash84stash84 - 1/29/2008 1:47:23 PM
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ISF

1. the m3 costs more when you add basic options
2. the interior on the m3 is lame
3. i dont like driving manual in traffic
4. id prefer the "underdog"
5. lexus nav is much nicer
6. reliability
7. has more potential for mods
8. less expensive after warranty expires
9. resale value




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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/29/2008 5:36:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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"1. the m3 costs more when you add basic options
2. the interior on the m3 is lame
3. i dont like driving manual in traffic
4. id prefer the "underdog"
5. lexus nav is much nicer
6. reliability
7. has more potential for mods
8. less expensive after warranty expires
9. resale value"

1. Can't argue with that.

2. I certainly can argue with that. The M3's interior is very attractive, functional and inviting with the right color combo and options.

3. Then get the DSG, which is worlds better than any automatic transmission.

4. I don't care. Sometimes the underdog is better, sometimes it isn't; either way, you won't be getting anything subtle with the IS-F.

5. Who buys a performance sedan for its navigation system?

6. The M3 is a very reliable car... always has been.

7. Who says? Because it's Japanese?

8. But so much more expensive when the warranty is there, which is the duration of ownership.

9. M3 has fantastic resale... BMW's resale is top-notch overall.

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AgentOrangeAgentOrange - 1/29/2008 11:07:55 AMView My AgentSpace
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Get the 135i coupe - a better car and save a ton o' dough...

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sholemonsholemon - 1/29/2008 11:19:35 AMView My AgentSpace
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To compare base price is definitely not fair to lexus if you are assuming the two base cars are similar. Undoubtedly lexus has a lot more standard features in their base that BMW will make you throw in as extras. That being said, would I rather pay 5k more for a comparable m3 over a base ISF...absolutely. I'd say im probably a lexus advocate more than bmw, but in a market where BMW has consistently been the benchmark to which all other attempts are compared, i'll stick with the leader until lexus has a few years and a reputation in this market as being legit.

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mini22mini22 - 1/29/2008 11:29:11 AM
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It depends on how much room you need and if you're concerned about gas mileage. If room is not an issue and you can give up a few 10ths to 60 MPH I would spring for a Cayman S. However if the parameters are only between these 2 I would have to go for the M3. The reason is it's simply the more sporty hard edged car. In addition you can get it with a manual.

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autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 11:46:56 AMView My AgentSpace
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I'll take the ISF I don't like the looks of BMW's anymore and their too hard edged.I want to have the new kid on the block with better reliability and service loaner cars etc.The BMW dealer in our town is owned by Tom Benson and everybody hates him and their service sucks.

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StarStar - 1/29/2008 3:55:21 PM
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You mean the new kid on the block(IS-F) that overheats in every test? Better reliability..LOL...


autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 1:28:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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What the hell is insumance money?Learn to spell boy before you debate me!BTW when you hit a wall in an ISF with all the advanced safety features it has I'll survive.

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SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/29/2008 12:10:58 PM
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OK, first Yukihiko decides to use the M3 as benchmark in hitting the targets, but now Lexus says that they didn't make it to compete with neither M3, RS4, or C63.

Lexus needs to get their story straight on why they built this thing...

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autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 1:33:12 PMView My AgentSpace
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To show the world,BMW already knew,their's a new sherriff in town and the names LEXUS!!!! The new world order.Bow down to LEXUS!!!!!!!!!!


STJ88STJ88 - 1/29/2008 12:15:52 PM
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The IS-F because the M3 looks realy cheap and has no torque.

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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/30/2008 7:34:20 AM
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and yet the M3 has been quicker in every test but one. Average margin of victory where the M3 was quicker: 0.3 seconds 0-60. Margin in the one test where the IS-F was quicker: 0.1 second. And the DCT is supposed to drop 0.2 seconds off those already quicker than the IS-F times. Sucks losing to a car with "no torque" doesn't it?


LemantechLemantech - 1/31/2008 10:05:34 PM
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you obviously don't know the meaning of red line at 8,400 rpm, do you Mr. STJ?


LemantechLemantech - 1/31/2008 10:06:21 PM
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you obviously don't know the meaning of red line at 8,400 rpm, do you Mr. STJ?


drew630drew630 - 1/29/2008 12:16:12 PM
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TauronB2GTauronB2G - 1/29/2008 1:24:06 PM
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Good point Drew...don't forget the C63
T


vman1013vman1013 - 1/29/2008 6:02:27 PM
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The CTS-V will have to be dealt with but its wedged between the M3 and M5. Still seems like a contender!


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 1/29/2008 12:28:29 PM
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the M3 is worth MORE than the ISF. so choosing it for less is a no brainer.

handling: BMW
looks: BMW
ride: BMW
reputation: BMW
acceleration: either


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autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 1:34:20 PMView My AgentSpace
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Your right it shows you have no brain!!!!!


stash84stash84 - 1/29/2008 2:02:14 PM
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people like rosco, who think that bmws do all these "magical things" makes the brand look bad. it may be very simple minded but id hate to be associated with someone like him, and to be HONEST, the people that drive bmws and think that they are "wealthy" and think that they have "taste" is one of the main reasons that i dislike them (bmws). other factors include cheap looking interiors (i dont care about the "materials" used, they still LOOK cheap), and that buck-toothed grill. im sure they drive like magic..but now that lexus is getting into the sport segment, their handling will improve. anyones who thinks that lexus' handling sucks should go study a little about cars so that they can realize that Lexus is a luxury car brand...not a sports car. they use electronic steering for a soft ride and to save weight..they are not made to handle like sports cars..im suprized that all the lexus haters dont know that already !! arent you supposed to be enthusiasts?? its sad that rosco needs a car for "sex appeal" and to "get laid"..thats NEVER a reason to like a car, i think people should rely more on personality and good looks...i guess some people just have to make up for things that they lack


SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/29/2008 4:47:40 PM
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"the people that drive bmws and think that they are "wealthy" and think that they have "taste" is one of the main reasons that i dislike them (bmws)"

Don't be a hypocrite stash.


stash84stash84 - 1/30/2008 3:45:20 AM
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hypocrite? not at all. you make no sense


SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/30/2008 12:11:18 PM
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First you said this,

"the people that drive bmws and think that they are "wealthy" and think that they have "taste" is one of the main reasons that i dislike them (bmws)

but then you ended with,

"its sad that rosco needs a car for "sex appeal" and to "get laid"..thats NEVER a reason to like a car"

Rosco is basically loving BMW's for the wrong reasons and you are following him by hating BMW's for the wrong reasons as well.

does that make more sense now?




SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/30/2008 12:12:07 PM
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First you said this,

"the people that drive bmws and think that they are "wealthy" and think that they have "taste" is one of the main reasons that i dislike them (bmws)

but then you ended with,

"its sad that rosco needs a car for "sex appeal" and to "get laid"..thats NEVER a reason to like a car"

Rosco is basically loving BMW's for the wrong reasons and you are following him by hating BMW's for the wrong reasons as well.

does that make more sense now?




SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/30/2008 12:12:15 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
First you said this,

"the people that drive bmws and think that they are "wealthy" and think that they have "taste" is one of the main reasons that i dislike them (bmws)

but then you ended with,

"its sad that rosco needs a car for "sex appeal" and to "get laid"..thats NEVER a reason to like a car"

Rosco is basically loving BMW's for the wrong reasons and you are following him by hating BMW's for the wrong reasons as well.

does that make more sense now?




SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/30/2008 12:12:18 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
First you said this,

"the people that drive bmws and think that they are "wealthy" and think that they have "taste" is one of the main reasons that i dislike them (bmws)

but then you ended with,

"its sad that rosco needs a car for "sex appeal" and to "get laid"..thats NEVER a reason to like a car"

Rosco is basically loving BMW's for the wrong reasons and you are following him by hating BMW's for the wrong reasons as well.

does that make more sense now?




SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/30/2008 12:14:42 PM
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damn, i guess i have to be more patient with the submit comment tab.


adamsaf723adamsaf723 - 1/29/2008 12:37:10 PM
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How about neither until I drive them both.
I'd probably take the IS-F as far as Sedans. The M3 Coupe hands down though.

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1995e341995e34 - 1/29/2008 12:46:24 PM
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m3, for looks, value, and performance

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1995e341995e34 - 1/29/2008 12:49:36 PM
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and manual transmission


answeranswer - 1/29/2008 12:54:14 PMView My AgentSpace
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Either is fine by me.

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autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 1:38:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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The only honest person in here.Its like having a blonde and a red head they both are fun to drive and handle great,it just depends what mood your in!


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 1/29/2008 12:59:19 PM
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M3 after read many review seems to be the most engaging to drive, and oh yeah, MANUAL TRANSMISSION.

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JUGNUJUGNU - 1/29/2008 1:16:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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I'll take the IS-F because i don't like the styling of the M3 Sedan. And also IS-F's got way more torque, faster accerleration, top speed and standard features. And to me it's styling and interior is also better than the M3's. and don't forget the lightneing quick 8 speed gearshift of IS-F.

IS-F to me is a clear winner here.

JUGNU

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bulldogzbulldogz - 1/29/2008 2:09:00 PM
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and yet less than 5% of all BMWs are stick,in the "Ultimate Driving Machine". And MB does aim for the M3 with the C63, you're just pretending they don't for fear that another German company would then be on par with Lexus.

What's funny is you wont even own one, and I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't actually afford one.

I bet even your dog hates you.


stash84stash84 - 1/29/2008 2:10:34 PM
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so..hes a loser for stating his opinion?

Rosco, youre the REAL copycat..you havent even driven the isf and you have an opinion about them.

btw..i would prefer an automatic..and im someone who can actually afford these cars..can you?

so the m3 is faster in top speed? but..who cares right?? what a contradiction !!

youre the real loser rosco2..enjoy your 328i..lol


ILikeLamboILikeLambo - 1/29/2008 6:59:50 PM
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the is-f would probably get more fans if it came in manual transmission


autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 1:21:24 PMView My AgentSpace
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M3=blown engine,check the failure rate an past M3's

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KingerKinger - 1/29/2008 1:37:36 PM
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The problem with early e46 M3's and the S54 engine stemmed from the connecting rod bottom-end bearing shells that were supplied to BMW by a third party that did not meet BMW's specifications. There was a recall to fix this issue and warranties were increased to six years.

We don't know how the S65 engine will perform reliability wise as its too early to tell.


autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 4:20:22 PMView My AgentSpace
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Hey Kinger,I hear you,but if you bought one and your motor crapped out you would blame the Mfg.,not the supplier.I'm not saying the new BMW engine will fail,but you must look at past performance to determine future performance.


vman1013vman1013 - 1/29/2008 6:01:15 PM
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My M3's engine has never blown! And I redline in first gear all the time. The IS-F is going to be a good, maybe even great car but the M3 is the leader of this pack.

You can't beat the champion in a close title fight by being his equal. You have to knock him out. And the IS-F doesn't come close to knocking the M3 out!


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 1/30/2008 1:38:54 PM
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past performance has noting to do with future performance. if you constantly looking at past performance, then you will let the world past you by because you are stuck thinking about the past... the world moves on and improves on past failures.

you think a crashed stock market is an indication of future results? I sure don't.

Thats a little advice for living as well...


TauronB2GTauronB2G - 1/29/2008 1:21:55 PM
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I am actually not really a fan of either car. For me I would go pick up a C63. I love the engine its a beast. But if I really had to chose between the two listed. I would probably end up with the M3 sedan. Don't tell anyone cause I really don't like Bimmers much anymore.
T


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autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 7:50:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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vmam1013 By your comment,I redline my M3 in first gear all the time and my engine didn't blow,You know nothing about cars.Every part made has a certain percent failure rate.The key to reliability is to reduce that percentage as much as possible.Lexus does this better than BMW, fact.


JUGNUJUGNU - 1/29/2008 1:54:29 PMView My AgentSpace
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IS-F

Better Styling
Better Interior
More standard features
Quality and relibilty
More Torque
Faster Acceleration
Greater Top Speed
More quick 8 Speed Gearshifts
Equal in handling

To me IS-F is the clear cut winner here as M3 don't have that many things in it's side apart from maybe the option of manual transmission.

JUGNU

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BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 1/29/2008 2:24:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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Jungu & stash what are you talking about ...

1.Better styling for the IS-f? Yeah if you like body panels and stacked exhausts that make it look like a 16 year old pieced together. Styling is subjective. That is why there are 33 flavors of ice cream

2.Better interior - subjective. Do not slight the interior of the BMW, due to what your tastes are in looks. BMW designs their interiors around functionality and sport. They are not interested in a sports car to how soft the leather is or where the cup holders are. It is a sports car, not a luxury cruiser.

3. More standard features ... Lexus has more standard features but that is true of all Lexus's. BMW owners like to be different in regards to equipment from one car to the next. Why should I have to get navigation, in order to get bluetooth? I know where I am going. I personally, like being able to select the options I do and do not want. Especially, if I am spending this much money on a car.

4. Quality & Reliability -- how so? based on what? This is the first for Lexus in a performance car. My refrigerator is reliable and will last 20 years, but that doesnt make it exciting. If you know anything about BMW, then you will know how reliable the M3 has been. Car & driver has named the BMW 3-series in their top ten for 16 years in a row. Name one lexus that is even close.

5. More torque & better acceleration - yeah but at what RPM? How is the gearing set up? how well is the torque getting thru the drivetrain to the rear wheels? still doesnt mean it is faster. Car & driver has tested the new M3 0 to 60 in 4.1 seconds as have other magazines. The average has been 4.2. The IS-F has been clocked anywhere from 4.2 to 4.6 seconds with an average of 4.4seconds. The IS-F is slower.

6. Greater top speed - In the US the germans have an agreement to limit their cars to 155 mph. In europe that is not the case. The top speed on the M3 is greater. You would know this if you would actually do some research.

7. More quick 8 speed gearshifts - really? then what about the M-DKG by BMW? Lexus only offers a auto transmission. BMW offers 2-variants of a manual transmission. A " true sports car " should never be offered in a auto transmission. It is a race car for goodness sake. Last time I checked, no race cars use a auto transmission.

8. Equal in handling - how do you know? have they been tested side by side yet? Last time I checked the BMW M3 was compared to a RS4 and C63 and bested both of them.

9. how bout maint? does lexus pay for it? no
10. size -- the M3 is alot bigger inside. I am 6'2 and can't even pretend to sit behind anyone in the back seat of the Lexus. resale -- are you kidding me? The M3 has the best resale of any car in this market.

try and think next time before typing and slandering a different brand ... idiots


1995e341995e34 - 1/29/2008 3:03:32 PM
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bmw4me4ever, thanks for explaining what i was too lazy to do myself. well said.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 1/29/2008 3:51:50 PM
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BMW4me4ever & 1995e34

Ditto


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/29/2008 7:10:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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"The M3 may be a sports car but the IS-F is a luxury sports car. With the IS-F you get to have your cake and eat it too."

Are you trying to tell me that the M3 isn't luxurious?

The interior is made of all of the highest-quality materials, but like BMW4me4ever said, it's not designed for its appearance... it's designed for durability, function and the best driving position.

"Based on JD Power's IQS and VDS studies. Considering Lexus' continuous commitment to quality and reliability, I wouldn't believe in anything less for the IS-F."

The BMW 5 Series is more reliable than the Lexus GS, so you can never rest on your laurels and be sure.

Either way, BMW does give you free maintenance, which BMW4me4ever also mentioned.

But why do you think M3 buyers are so loyal? They wouldn't keep going back for a truly unreliable car.

"That's funny I could sworn I read Car & Driver only getting 4.3 seconds going 0-60 mph for the M3 versus 4.2 seconds going 0-60 mph for the IS-F:"

Nice job, you have links.

However, that 4.2 sec time is the quickest currently recorded for the IS-F, but the 4.3 is not for the M3. It may not have been C/D, but the M3 has gotten 4.1 in at least one magazine, and the M-DKG will make it even quicker.

"The IS-F is capable of doing over 185 mph without the electronic governor"

You did a good job "forgetting" that the BMW M3 also has a top speed... and I can't find an article showing the unlimited M3's top speed.

"By your flawed logic then, a Porsche with Tiptronic isn't a "true sports car"?"

In fact, yes. Porschephiles look upon people who drive Tiptronic Porsches as posers.

However, the 997 is also offered with a manual, and its Tiptronic is soon to be replaced by DSG. The IS-F only has an automatic. That's the difference.

-------

Screw the RS4. I'm leaning back towards BMW, with the exception of the new RS6. Now it's RS6, M3, M5, in that order.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/29/2008 11:29:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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"Midsize Premium Car
Highest Ranked: Lexus GS 300/GS 430
Acura RL
Lexus ES 330

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6214130/car-news/buick-ties-lexus-in-jd-power-dependability-study/index.html"

MINE was from CR. The Audi A6 and BMW 5 Series were both recommended, while the Lexus GS was not.

"The real question is how much for maintenance once the free maintenance is over? I'm betting my house that it'll be a lot more than Lexus."

Like I said, the duration of the ownership is spent with a warranty. The people buying M3s and IS-Fs don't keep them very long--only until a newer, better, freshened version comes out. That is commonly seen in luxury car buyers in general. It's why leasing makes so much sense for some people, in addition to them not being able to afford to buy...

"Because they like the blue and white roundel??? The very same reason why people keep going back to GM despite most GM vehicles being POS. Blind allegiance to what they believe in."

Look, I know you're stubborn, but I had some hope that you were a pretty smart Lexus fan. Angry, yes, but idiotic? No.

Now, I'm not so sure. Do you truly think that? Did you have a bad experience with a BMW or something? Anyone in their right mind knows that the M3 is an incredible car, one that's worth going back to again, and again, and again. It has nothing to do with the badge on its hood, but the moving parts that represent that badge. BMW stands for performance for a REASON.

"Spare me your lame excuses. The bottome line is the same publisher tested both cars and concluded that the IS-F is faster than the M3."

Lame excuses?

Okay, well, let's assume the manual M3 and automatic IS-F are neck-and-neck in terms of acceleration. 0.1 sec in either direction makes no discernable difference.

And think about the Audi A3. Do you know why the 2.0T is just about as quick as the 3.2? DSG. It makes a very significant difference. We know the M3 is getting it very soon. It would only be fair to compare the automated transmissions of the M3 and IS-F, so M-DKG must be used here. M-DKG (DSG) is always quicker than its manual equivalent, and with seven forward gears instead of six, it has an even bigger advantage.

This all points to one logical conclusion--the M3 will be quicker than the IS-F, and just about as quick as the blistering 3.9 sec Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG.

"Maybe you should go tell Porsche headquarters that."

Porsche is very aware. However, there is a market for the "posers" I mentioned. Half the mid-life crisis guys who buy the 911 opt for the Tiptronic, because they simply can't live with a manual. Porsche is in it for the money, not just the product, like any company... although they focus more on the machines than most.

"The real difference is that the IS-F has the best of both worlds: manual paddle shifting for aggressive driving and full auto for rush hour driving. You can't do that in a car with manual transmission."

Pfft. That feature is on the new Hyundai


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/29/2008 11:32:51 PMView My AgentSpace
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That feature is on the new Hyundai Veracruz. However, M-DKG sets itself apart with custom, driver-selectable shift modes; an M/Sport mode, the quickness of the transmission itself AND manual (Steptronic) control.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/30/2008 7:49:39 AM
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the 4.1 second 0-60 time for the M3 was Road and Track, not Car and Driver. Car and Driver is the ONLY magazine that got the IS-F to be quicker than the M3, and it was by 0.1 seconds. Every other test the M3 has been quicker by 0.1-0.5 seconds. And the DCT will shave 0.2 seconds off the M's times, widening the gap.

Oh, and Road and Track also got 0.91g's on the skidpad with the IS-F... and 0.98g's with the M3. The lowest test result for the M3 has been 0.94g's, which is better than the highest result for the IS-F.

The IS-F is a sporty luxury car. The M3 is a luxurious sports car. Pick your poison.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/31/2008 6:24:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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You're kidding.

Now you're just wasting time, trying to avoid admitting that YOU'RE WRONG.

It's OBVIOUS. There is no proof necessary.


autoproautopro - 1/29/2008 4:12:35 PMView My AgentSpace
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A 3year old well I'm still more mature than you,and my auto knowledge spans 23 years in the business.Any time you want to debate me just bring it on.

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bulldogzbulldogz - 1/29/2008 2:11:53 PM
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yet you have no problem doing the same with lack of punctuation.

Pot meet kettle.

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stash84stash84 - 1/29/2008 2:21:14 PM
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how would you know?

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