Why would I want a diesel instead of a hybrid?

i dont know. thats a tough question, lol!

— pacotacolol (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 10:40:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

charged up at night in your garage with solar energy???? huh

— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 11:27:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

The point is, YOU CANNOT CHARGE SOMETHING WITH SOLAR POWER AT NIGHT. Sun = solar. Sun = day. Day does not = night.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:35:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

"I believe the answer is plug in hybrids that use no gas at all and can be charged up at night in your garage from solar energy. ZERO emissions and free."

actually, a plug-in car is false hope for environmentalists. very few people have solar power or live in a place that's sunny enough to generate solar power. the MAJORITY of electricity in the united states is produced by COAL-FIRED plants. since when is burning coal a zero emissions process?

if we as a nation were to get over our hang ups about nulear powerplants and generate our electricity that way, plug-ins would be a great solution.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 1:13:49 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

GoObama - that's not true.
You would need a whole roof of Solar Panels in a very sunny area to have anything like the energy needed to charge a Tesla. And since 1 solar panel costs something like 7000 pounds, money saving is not really happening.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:28:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

frustrated goobama?
why the name calling?

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:36:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

go:

so if such sophisticated solar power generation is accessible already why hasn't it been adopted? could it be that it's prohibitively expensive for people to install the systems in their individual homes?

again, not a realistic solution. talk to me in 20 years when the technology is affordable.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:39:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Sun energy is easy to store in the day time. I have solar powered lights in the front of my home and they (usually) work quite well. However, it's very hard to put that on a much larger scale (car). And, as Rupert pointed out, very expensive. You're basically buying another car by doing that.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 1/22/2008 5:00:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

If i ever buy a hybrid it would be a turbodiesel-solarcharged-plugin-hybrid-lean-mean-earth-saving-machine!

— EvoAudi (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 10:57:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I just don't think the driver knows how to drive the M3...

— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:44:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I don't believe that for a second. You could stall, turn your car off, turn it back on, and still beat a 530d 0-60. Sure they feel faster because they are very torque-y, but to believe that an M3 would get dusted by a 530d is ignorant. Diesels are built much better and will last longer than I hybrid, and they will be quicker per cubic inch, but they aren't that much significantly faster than a standard engine, let alone a hybrid. Cars like the R8 are exceptions.

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:58:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

Wow. The new M3 really is a let-down then...

...if this were true.

— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 1:28:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Someone at the automobliemag.com must have exggerated or made up the story because it did not provide the detail of the "diesel station wagon". One other thing most people do not realize is that although diesel has a lot of torque than their gasoline counterpart, but when compare the acceleration numbers with the similar size engine the diesel still lags behind. For example compare the performance of the Mercedes E class with gasoline engine and diesel engine, or the M Class with gasoline and diesel. Although the diesel has much more torque but actually slower. However the fuel mileage of the diesel is much better then the gasoline engine. Is it a myth or fact that diesel have better performance number? You'll be the judge.

— bobus (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 1:39:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

hey the LS600 gets 14.9!! saving the world. one 5300 pound car at a time.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:41:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Ratco your an insult to everyone on this site.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 11:09:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lexus is not the fastest growing luxury brand in Britain. I live here.
And do you know how fast the "V12 competitor" is in Britain? 0-60 in...6.6 seconds. Not really V12 competitive. And yet it costs over 80000 pounds.
And it still has higher emissions than the Germans' 3.0 diesels. Their 4 litre + diesels have slightly higher emissions, but are faster and more fuel efficient.

Shall we have a look at Lexus' British sales?
Let's see...2007 total year sales
Lexus - 15,119 - a 2.91% increase over last year.
BMW - 121,575 - a 5.15% increase over last year
Audi - 100,864 - a 17.98% increase over last year
Mercedes - 82,321 - a 1.54% increase over last year
Alfa Romeo - 7,355 - a 40% increase over last year
Land Rover - 46,552 - an 8.78% increase over last year.

So GoObama, you are in fact completely wrong.
And BMW outsold Toyota in Britain last year!

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:40:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

You want to argue with my figures? Argue with the SMMT, the society for motor manufacturers and traders.
My figures are dead on right, and don't you dare even suggest that I am lying.

http://www.smmt.co.uk/dataservices/index.cfm?sid=-2&catid=551&maincatid=551

Go to this site, download the file registration cars 2007, unzip it with winzip or winrar, and have a look.

And the advertised 25 mpg sucks, as the A8 4.2 tdi gets 30 mpg, and is faster.
The funny thing is that the UK is Lexus' 3rd largest market, so it's sales are quite pathetic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus#Global_ambitions

Ok, maybe in the whole of Europe Lexus sales are increasing the most - but only by 7%.
http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/15188/__Toyota-achieves-11th-consecutive-record-year-of-sales-in-Europe.html

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 5:56:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Alfa Romeo is (BY FAR) the fastest-growing luxo brand in Britain, followed by Audi? Surprising. I know Alfa isn't a high-volume brand there... but Audi? Really? They're the second-biggest, and the fastest growing? Interesting.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 1/22/2008 5:05:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Yep - we do love our Audis here.
And that's with the A4 being about to be replaced.
Their UK headquaters are being built about a mile from my house - right next to a Mercedes dealership!

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 1/22/2008 6:11:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I think Diesel/hybrid will be the way to go.We just need more gas stations with diesel fuel,not available everwhere,in my area at least.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 11:11:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

25mpg is nothing to brag about! I am all about the diesel engines. I cant wait to get my 335d.

— 2ndbimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 11:19:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Give me a V12 6.0 Liter TDI from 0-60 in less than 4.2 seconds with around 25 mpg and the diesel is my best friend forever! Oh yeah, just saw one at the Detriot show!

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 1:06:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Oh ratco you can do that with your fudge packing friend enthusiassh*le.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 4:56:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I am not sure what the savings would be between a Diesel and hybrid. Diesel engines are not exactly cheap...AT ALL! The Diesel has been around forever and just recently is it considered a savior in these hard times.

Hybrids is a much newer tech as you all know and still has a lot of growing pains to go through to reach full potential. Diesels are already proven with emission issues being the main concern as well as Diesel fuel costs above Premium in numerous areas. So both techs have their ups and downs. I know Diesel hybrids where brought to the table. Issue with that is the Diesel needs to be primed before starting. Not easy to pull off with a hybrid due to constant on/off when idling in city driving.

— Porschinator (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 5:36:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Greenplease,
Ummm, you forgot a few important things.

1. Diesels use more oil. The RS8 uses 50% more barrels of oil (yes, 42 gallon BARRELS) than an LS600hL, which outweighs it by 1500lbs. The IS-F outperforms and is gas, yet it consumes 25% less oil. Same ratios between the Prius and Jetta TDI.
2. Cleaner is still no where near "CLEANEST", which hybrids are.
3. The new generation of diesels will be (judging from the UK pricing) just as expensive as current hybrids, except hybrid technology prices are dropping with each generation.
4. Diesels are still loud, no matter how much you tell yourself they're not.
5. Where diesel isn't subsidized (i.e. everywhere but Europe), you pay 10%+ more for diesel and that's when diesel only represents about 4% of the market (N.A.).
http://www.vw.ca/vwca/index/0,2280,40,00.html
6. Hybrid and diesel mileage is roughly the same on average (unless you commute from LA to NY everyday).
7. Hybrid tech will work with hydrogen cars, no added weight or requirement for a secondary fuel source (unlike the BMW 7 Hydrgen that carries around 2 fuel tanks).
8. Diesels have to hide their emissions through tricks and gadgets. Hybrids just simply don't create them to begin with.
9. Diesels are used primarily as a cashcow for old school car companies. The base VW Jetta TDI in Canada went from $21,000 to $26,500 and that's not even the Bluemotion models (add another $2000+).
10. BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche have all been forced to rush half-assed hybrids to market :)

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 9:09:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

One error, the RS8 is the gas version. The R8 V12 TDI which has the same 0-60 as the RS8 but with apparently 23mpg. (Either way, compared to hybrids, their still pretty poor) The Touaerag V10 TDI gets 15/20mpg, so 23 sounds reasonable, however, the V10 TDI uses even more oil than the RS8 gas. It's also not 50 state legal.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 9:18:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Hey huumisguided, there is no RS8! Please get it right. All the non-Lexus people get deboosted because the Lexus-types keeping crying over their spilled milk. Boohoo! In defence of Rupert, Lexus sales in Europe are dismal compared to Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. Hey Obamamybama, don't deny actual figures. This is just for you:

Per Automotive News Europe January 7th 2008 edition (for data available through 11/07 by JATO Dynamics) sales are as follows:

Audi: 612,959 units
BMW: 645,457 units
MB: 680,554 units
Lexus: 36,840 units (OOPS!)
Jaguar: 30,996 units

You are right Obama - Lexus is tearing it up in Europe alright!

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 10:27:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I will not get diesel specially in a sports car because, it sounds disgusting when you press on the gas.

— farabira1 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/22/2008 11:20:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Anyone want to try proving me wrong rather than dodge my facts? Diesels burn more oil but have no mileage benefits over a hybrid, it's that simple. Just pick a car and start crying. (45%city / 55%highway)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008selemakef.jsp?year=2008
Face it, the Germans have hosed Europe for the last few decades.

Yes, R8, the two seater, is what I'm getting at (I hate these alphabet soup LMNOP-5.1 named cars). My comparison was to show how pathetic the V8 gas or V12 TDI is compared to a full size hybrid sedan that outweighs them by 1500lbs (LS600hL). The IS-F outperforms the RS8 (speed and mileage) and comes damn close in mileage aginst the V12 (speed is debatable).

Biodiesel may be cleaner (CLEANER), but check out some other facts that you either don't know or would rather ignore. It has benefits, but just as many drawbacks.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Biodiesel-Fuel---Pros-and-Cons&id=924808
LOWER ENERGY CONTENT
ENGINE OPERATION PROBLEMS
STORAGE and HANDLING
BIODIESEL EFFECT ON DIESEL OIL (when concentrations exceed 5%)
Other terms not mentioned are "deforestation" for farmland.
Rising food costs due to fuel competing with animal stock for grain.

The EPA tests show that a GMC Sierra running on E85 has 30% poorer mileage than a conventional one.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=24700
I am impressed by how much oil consumption dropped though (67% drop). However, factor in the added usage to gain the same mileage, and it climbs to about 50% which you can obtain through hybrids but with lower emissions.

As for noise, go stand beside an E320 Bluetec or a Jetta TDI and tell me how quiet they are.

VW/Audi created the Touerag TDI and Q7 TDI, so what does that say about them worrying about noisy cars?

Anyway, I'm waiting to see what straws your combined intellect will grasp at this time.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/22/2008 6:40:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

@Anyone who thinks (lubrication) oil consumption is a problem:
-Said oil can be/frequently is captured, reprocessed, and recycled.

@Whoever said modern diesels have lower NOX emissions
-Wrong. This is the last category where diesels suffer in terms of emissions. New combustion regimes (modified HCCI with a specialized piston geometry) should deal with this in the next 5-10 years without exhaust after treatment. This tech will also improve the fuel economy of diesel engines by ~20%.

@Hu
-You certainly cherry picked your match between an LS600 and an A8 4.2TDI and then through the IS-F in there for no apparent reason (should be compared to a BMW 335D). The fuel economy/performance match between the LS600 and A8 4.2TDI is won on the drive cycle. The LS wins in the city, the A8 on the highway.

Compare Audi, BMW, Merc, Honda, and even Lexus gasoline and diesel engines of similar displacement. Diesel is competitive in terms of performance (within 5% acceleration) and always wins in terms of fuel economy.

Diesel may be more expensive per gallon, but is still cheaper on a per btu basis, while the diesel combustion regime inherently makes better use of each btu so.... what is a more economical engine?

I'm not trying to bash hybrids. Not one bit. The logical evolution of the automobile is diesel series hybrid. A company such as GM could produce a turbo-charged ~1.6L diesel engine that could be used as the genset in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF ITS VEHICLES and then use lightly modified electric drive trains to satisfy performance needs for a given chassis (compacts would require fewer electric motors and a smaller battery, pickups would be on the other end of the spectrum).

— GreenPlease (View Profile)

Posted on 1/22/2008 10:06:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

and diesel is not cheaper in the uk than gas....

— kurtismac (View Profile)

Posted on 1/26/2008 11:20:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1