In WHICH World Are Sedans Making A COMEBACK? Road & Track Wins Most Out Of Touch Call So Far In 2020

They meant a return of BMW's sport sedan origins, which they had lost.

But let's not cloud this with actually reading the article.

R&T has always been an out of touch magazine. I've never like the format, and although I am a prolyfic reader (must to Your (001) chagrin) of print publications, even my free subscription from them I cancelled. I have 30+ years of Car & Driver on my bookshelf, 15+ years of both Motor Trend and Automobile Magazine as well. And about a decades worth of Cigar Aficionado - I do love the print format - reading each cover to cover each month, even if I had previously read the same article online through either here or other websites.

R&T is intentionally out of touch, yes, this article is just one of many that prove that point. I remember reading a glowing review of Infiniti a few years ago. Need I say more?

Anyways, thanks for the light humor this morning.

-00J

Sport sedans--and sedans in general--can prosper, but they have to be a value. Going forward, crossovers can get pricey but sedans just don't have that luxury.

I'd replace the BMW 3/4/5 Series with a new 4 Series sedan and coupe that at 5-sized and 3-priced.

Car and Driver has a terrible magazine layout and design and their writing is absolutely terrible. Road and Track is a total bore. Both are clearly paid to say what they say.

Darringer - is there anything that you actually like? I mean besides the Stinger?

Because every non-Stinger thing you post is filled with whining about some thing or other.

I grew up poor and I will always be imprinted with an "every penny counts" mentality. When the cents don't make sense I will point it out. If the product does not deliver on the price, it is not a good product and that goes for any product.

Manufacturers have a duty to deliver the best product for the money without any excuses and manufacturers can do better. Most are lazy with fuck-the-consumer attitudes.

This: "Because every non-Stinger thing you post is filled with whining about some thing or other." is a wildly inaccurate statement designed to smear and bully while purporting to be factually accurate.

I've called you out on that numerous times.

The fact is that I have been laudatory of a number of vehicles; you merely choose to poison the well by asserting the opposite. But this isn't about the car for you. For you, its your chihuahua yapping at the big dog overcompensatory behavior yet again.

Clearly you are OK with a culture of low expectations for the dollar. Please continue to spend foolishly.

Sedans will always be around as not everyone wants a suv/cuv.

But manufacturers will need to consolidate.

BMW doesn't need 2/3/4/5/7/8 4 doors
Mercedes doesn't need A/C/E/CLS/S
Audi doesn't need 3/4/6/7/8

Ford desperately needs a sedan on the lot. A CD6 sedan should be easy to whip up for Ford with a Continental for Lincoln. Ford and Lincoln dealers are demanding a sedan to sell rather vocally after the Fusions (Fusion/MKZ/Continental) vanish.

Honda and Toyota are probably OK with the Civic/Accord and the Corolla/Camry, but the Avalon is pointless.

"more dead than small compact sedans" Are you referring to luxury small compact sedans or the entire market?

Between just the Civic and Corolla on 2016 and 2017 they sold close to 800k units combined just in the US. Last year, they sold about 630K units. So, yes, there's a downturn, but is that really a "dead" market? The Accord and Camry's numbers are much different, but combined, they sold about 600K units in the US last year. Is that market "dead"?
Sure, there appears to be a decline, but the same could be said back in 2011 when everyone of these cars sold fewer than they did in 2019.

The reality is there is still a market for sedans. Not as robust as the overall history of the configuration, but it's still there.

If you're referring to the small compact luxury market, why would Benz and BMW introduce brand new models to the segment if it was dead? And why would Audi present a completely redesigned model as well? Clearly, there's profit to be made and there are other markets outside of the US where sedans are very viable.

BMW 4dr: 2/3/4/5/7/8 4 doors
Mercedes 4dr: A/CLA/C/E/CLS/S/GT4/Maybach
Audi 4dr: 3/4/5/6/7/8