$15 to $17 billion to be approved for Big 3 by next week

So, this vacation you speak of and this extradition policy sound very familiar...

Oh yeah, financials got federal money and went to luxury resorts in California. One of those CEO's (either Tyco or Enron, etc) was found in some African country with no extradition policy to USA.

Detroit CEO's are for some reason in the crosshairs of congress. The auto industry has been washington/california's whipping boy for years.

Bad products at high prices eh? Obviously you haven't even bothered to do any reserach on any offering from Detroit. Relative of mine just got a fully loaded impala (3.5L though) for $17,000. This guy swore against Big3 for years and traded in his Honda Accord for the impala. Interestingly enough.. he likes the impala a lot more. Just took good pricing to get him (and others like him) into a big3 dealership at ACTUALLY SEE WITH THEIR OWN EYES what they've been bashing.

Either way, you make it sound like Detriot is some giant criminal enterprise that is trying to steal from the American people. You don't want a bailout because.....why? You know the damage it would do to an already shaken economy.

In the long term, there would be no domestic automakers (ch11 is a joke, be reasonable here) and we would be sending extra hundreds of billions to Japan/Korea every goddamn year because people are too short sighted to see what massive things detroit has already done and what detroit is doing for the BENEFIT of the USA.

Money leaving america:
-Oil
-Metals
-Chinese manufacturing
-foreign cars

Should we really not give this LOAN (not a bailout) and subsidize the Japanese/ Korean economies.

HELL NO!!

Look long term.

— neutral (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 6:14:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

neutral.... well said Boost x10!

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 6:20:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

Funny that you would refer to one of the best selling recent Chrysler products and one of the most overlooked small car values in the US market (yes, includin sub-20k imports) as your examples of what is wrong with Chrysler and Ford.

I'm just saying...it's really funny!

— 09CTSVforMe (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 10:46:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

TheSailor,

Bankruptcy would be the end of Detroit. Firstly, suppliers are owed tons of money and they wouldn't get paid under Ch11, causing them to crash. Then there is a massive lack of parts, etc etc etc.

Secondly, be serious here. People are not going to buy a chevy if GM is in bankruptcy. Plain & simple. America is full of people who only think about 1 thing, their wallets right now, not the future. Why do Americans buy Toyota/Honda when there's Malibu & Fusion? Perception is that domestics are bad, regardless of the truth. You think these same people are going to be enticed to buy good domestics when the big3 are in bankruptcy? Too many Americans with their noses in the air for no good reason.

3rd) you are correct, i did mis-understand your comment about overpriced cars. However, with the agreements of 2005, 2007 and right now, big3 will be on-par with foreign labor. Also, people should be THRILLED that Detroit took care of so many people's healthcare and retirement for 100yrs. Didn't cost the taxpayers a dime for millions of Americans.

4th) I agree, Chrysler 300 interior is a piece of plastic. Chrysler said a few months ago to look-out for the redesign. They said that since they no longer answer to Wall St, they can pursue things that aren't profits-right-now oriented. However, I am impressed with the new Cherokee, in & out. Instrumentation panel is nice, platic pieces are well executed, etc.


Also, Detroit's lineup is great right now as is, and its getting better every day. GM alone has the best cars its ever had.... and they all stack up well against any of their competitors. The upcoming lineups for GM/Ford/(maybe Dodge) are amazing and Americans need to wake up and realize that the home teams have made a massive comeback in the past few years.

Detroit was in the middle of a massive restructuring BEFORE oil spiked thanks in no small part to the criminals in Washington DC doing NOTHING to regulate oil speculation. Then---Big Surprise--- the rest of the economy tanked once oil broke everyone's ability to do business... and the dominos kept on falling.

I agree, it sucks that Detroit had to go to washington and look stupid just because they were the victims of Washington/Wall St's criminal activities. What is real upsetting is the fact that the morons in the media and in congress have spread the fire of hatred against the big3 based on myths and lies.. thus hurting the Big3's ability to sell cars (which they've already noticed just in the past 2 weeks).

— neutral (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 11:56:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

1UAW,

Thank You.

— neutral (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 11:59:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

"Anyway, my key point is that I think giving them 15 or 25 billion is plain stupid! It sounds very substantial to you and me, but when you look at the size of these companies and there amount of money they are using and oweing, it's just peanuts! The combined powers of the big three will probably be able to make those 15-17 billion in two months!"

ok so lets give them 700B with no strings like we did with the republican wallcrooks who created the mess that put the Big 3 in this trouble in the first place.

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 12/7/2008 3:45:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Sailor..... In detail please tell me how the UAW has GM hog tied.

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 12/7/2008 8:21:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Sailor,

GM isn't burning through 4 billion a month... thats a story generated somewhere in the media, taken completely out of context from reality (cmon... its the media). Truth is, in Q3 of 2008, GM burned something like 6billion total (still a massive amt, but not the 12billion people speak of). GM's Q2 losses (which were massive on paper) were really some big messed up tax-declaration, blah blah blah. Either way, cash out of hand wasn't anything close to what was reported (it may have been for Q1, I can't remember right now & Im too tired to look it up..sorry).


And like you said, public perception is whats really destroying the Big3, both from the trendiness of buying foreign and the fact that for way too long, detroit built crap cars. Now (obviously), Detroit can't sell some pretty great cars. Restructuring wouldn't be bad... but the evil word "bankruptcy" will further destroy the public's perception of the Big3 (along with the BS that congress and the ignorant media have done all so well in the past 2-3 weeks).

Ive read GM's plans, the different scenarios, etc and they seem pretty good... However the public doesnt get the real plans like congress/GM execs get (can't divulge secrets!!!)

I believe it is publicly available, Im too tired to search for it now.

— neutral (View Profile)

Posted on 12/7/2008 11:28:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

your a dumb ass.

— rallyss (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 6:13:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

that was meant for the thesailor.

— rallyss (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2008 8:45:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Government energy policies = hurt detroit

CAFE only makes sense as a baseline way to control demand. Should be 30mpg for cars, 20mpg for trucks. Gasoline should be taxed to $2.70-$3.00/gallon. This way, we aren't sending money overseas when oil jumps because we've effectively lowered demand for oil in a controlled and structured manner. Also, people who need trucks/SUVs/minivans aren't getting robbed at the pump.

However, regardless of fuel price... My next car will most likely be a Chevy Cruze or a Volt (if I can get one). Even with cheap fuel, there's no need to waste it,..... gotta save that fuel for the guys who drive the SL's, Corvettes and M6's!!!! (no sarcasm.. im serious)

— neutral (View Profile)

Posted on 12/7/2008 12:04:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

TheSailor: UAW1 and Neutral are a couple of trolls who pretend to know-it-all when it comess ot saving cars companies. Neutral has never worked on a UAW factory shop floor, and UAW1 still can't explain to bloggers why there is almost a $3000 difference in BIG3 car cost compared to a foreign built car. This website would be great if these two bias trolls wouldn't popup everytime the word "Big3 bailout" or "UAW Union" was mentioned on the site.

— gkearns56 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/7/2008 9:15:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

R&D?!?!?! Big3 spend billions upon billions a year. Look it up.

Restructuring!?!?! All manufacturers, especially detroit have been halting production, cutting extaneous programs, cutting benefits/perks etc. Hows about selling Saab/Volvo, cutting Hummer altogether, and the possible closing down of Saturn sound like?

Read the plans... GM's public plan is about 20 pages, Ive yet to read Ford/CHrysler's plans. Truth is, the massive restructuring everyone keeps complaining about has been going on for years now. the Big3 needed a stable market with stable fuel until 2010 for the really huge savings to kick in. Fortunately, we have the best government on the earth and they did all in their powers not to regulate oil/financials.

— neutral (View Profile)

Posted on 12/7/2008 11:32:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Click your heels three times "Neutral" and maybe you'll be back in Kansas like Dorthy so that suggestion about "how good" the UAW is for America will come true. Face it, the UAW autoworkers build crapy cars and are begging for another chance - bailout.

— gkearns56 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/8/2008 8:22:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

BTW: Pick up today's USA Today paper since there is a great article in there about how Honda, Toyota and a couple other transplants have all opened new auto plants up in the last couple months. It goes on to say how the UAW greed, along with continuous poor management have created this debacle the Big 3. Will the Big 3 be back with their hand out again, after congress gives them their partial bailout this week?

— gkearns56 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/8/2008 8:30:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

$1 billion to immediately be set aside for hookers and blow per the agreement.

— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 12/8/2008 11:16:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2