2012 Lexus GS-F: Toyota to build a V-10-powered M5-fighter

cpruitt submitted on 08/29/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:59 AM
from: www.motortrend.com

Tags: 2012 Lexus GS-F, toyota, m5

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2012 Lexus GS-F

toyota

2012 Lexus GS-F: Toyota to build a V-10-powered M5-fighter

Take the 500-plus-horsepower, Formula 1-inspired sub-5.0-liter V-10 slated for the 2010 Lexus LF-A supercar, drop it in the body of the all-new 2011 GS sedan, and what've you got? The 2012 Lexus GS-F. Watch out, BMW M5, Audi RS6, Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG, and 2009 Cadillac CTS-v!

Details are sketchy, but engineers are said to be protecting the next-generation GS to be able to package the supercar's V-10. The GS-F apparently hasn't been approved for production. It would be a good idea, though, and not just for enthusiasts. It would cut engine costs through higher volume than by building it just for the exclusive supercar.

This also is official (kind of) notice that a V-10 has emerged as the engine Lexus will use in its supercar. Lexus hasn't announced the engine, or even made the supercar official, but Toyota was said to be considering either the V-10 or a twin-turbo version of the LS sedan's V-8. The new V-10 was to be Toyota Formula 1-based, but that series now uses a V-8, and the street engine has been developed with diminished connection to the racing engine... Read Article

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Will_ - 8/29/2007 12:35:12 PM

+8 Boost

"Toyota is a joke."

"Lexus has no history."

"Lexus has no prestige."

"Lexus has no reputation for building performance sedans."

"Lexus is a value-price brand."

"Real car enthusiasts will ALWAYS stick with BMW."

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SevorbeupstryIsBack - 8/29/2007 1:28:35 PM

-5 Boost

"I always laugh when the haters say "Lexus has no prestige." Turn on the US Open right now and you'll see Lexus logos everywhere, even on the nets! Lexus has built itself into the most prestigous luxury company."

So? That doesn't mean anything! It's not because a pseudo-luxury brand wants to prestigious that it IS!

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EL34 - 8/29/2007 8:20:00 PM

0 Boost

Will, don't be so hard on ToyLex, they're new!

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henbmw - 8/31/2007 9:41:39 AM

+1 Boost

Houstin- The Caps lock key is located right above your shift key. Press it once

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supermoto - 8/29/2007 12:39:40 PM

+1 Boost

Yup. No matter how good they are, it is totally unknown how many of these cars Lexus will sell. Owners of cometitors to this car and the IS-F tend to be pretty loyal to their M3s and M5s. I would be shocked if many made the switch, especially since the styling on the IS-F is so juvenile. Not really a great idea when the average buyer is going to be in the 40s or maybe 50s.

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lenkun - 8/29/2007 12:43:35 PM

-1 Boost

2012 is too far away. By then BMW and Mercedes will already have something around 600hp with their next version of their M and AMG. Actually, Mercedes already have several vehicles over 600hp with their S65, SL65, and SLR. BMW may add their turbo charger to their V10 and Benz may add a Kompressor to their 6.3L V8 And the RS6 is also rumored to have 600hp.

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S4cabriofoxone - 8/29/2007 6:11:30 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Yes, the RS6 will get 600hp NEXT YEAR, long before M and AMG catch up. By the time the GS-F is released it will have some 650, as 600hp is probably sufficient. LOL.

EL34 - 8/29/2007 12:59:45 PM

-7 Boost

I'm sure it will be another girly car.

*sad*

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MercBasher - 8/29/2007 4:36:16 PM

+1 Boost

The GS 430 has minimal sales even in the US. Any future model has to be dramatically better to get any kind of sales traction. Mercedes, BMW really own the midsize segment. Even Audi flops in the US in this segment.

STJ88 - 8/29/2007 1:13:54 PM

+9 Boost

@EL34

If you find a 500BHP V10 girly i would like to know what you drive.

*sad*

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answer - 8/29/2007 1:56:48 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Quick!

Send your comments along to Lexus corporate. I sure would hate for them to waste their time trying a GS-F when you already know it won't be able to compete.

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Threepoint1415926 - 8/29/2007 1:30:59 PM

+1 Boost

Still praising imaginary cars and numbers are we?

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henbmw - 8/31/2007 9:44:47 AM

+1 Boost

Or maybe there is a surplus of retarded comments whenever Lexus is mentioned.

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bagwell - 8/31/2007 5:20:07 PM

0 Boost

its all the beemer fan boys deboosting anything with Lexus or Toyota -- they have a chip on their shoulder because their cars are in the shop....AGAIN.

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MercBasher - 8/29/2007 4:37:28 PM

+1 Boost

Finally a reality check, good post!

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S4cabriofoxone - 8/29/2007 6:13:21 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

RICEMASTER is the farthest poster from reality on this site, bar the all-out trolls.

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Designer1 - 8/29/2007 1:41:18 PM

+5 Boost

lol, I love it when the Lexus haters start screaming.
Someday in the near future, Lexus/Toyota will compete against EVERY segment in the market, and you know what? it will dominate those markets too.

The ONLY reason why Lexus isn't gaining foot in Europe as fast as it did in America, cause the Europeans are hesitant to lose their economy to a Japanese company. If they do, it will hurt them badly, but they DO know that the Lexus are FAR much better cars than what they make, but they would fight that so they can survive.

As for Americans, sadly we've lost the cars war looong time ago, that's why Lexus succeeded so fast here.

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Rupert - 8/29/2007 2:04:38 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

I love it when Americans give these detailed reasons for why Europeans don't buy Lexus.

There's only one.

We don't like them.

But more seriously, lack of diesel, lack of wagons, lack of cheaper versions (ie GS250), poor brand image (I doubt many Europeans think of Lexus when they think of a premium car) and an image of being either: Way too Japanese, or :Way too American turns many people off.

I only found out the IS could "handle" about 3 months ago when someone on this site said so. Lexus has never told anyone it could handle in Europe, it's just shown as really quiet and boring.

Perhaps Audi US and Lexus Europe should trade advertising departments?

JWalkerLegrande - 8/29/2007 3:16:37 PM

-6 Boost

"As for Americans, sadly we've lost the cars war looong time ago, that's why Lexus succeeded so fast here."

Or because some Americans tend to prefer packaging over content. The V10 news is a prime example: using the Toyota F1 engine which was dead last in the F1 era of V10 engines will not sell cars anywhere outside the US. Here you say Formula-1 and 500 hp and people run to the stores...

Will_ - 8/29/2007 3:31:24 PM

+3 Boost

What's truly annoying is when imperialistic Europeans and corresponding European fanboys try to give us the detailed reasons as to why Americans buy Lexus. Why? Because Lexus was able to offer unparalleled luxury, quality and reliability without pretentiousness. You think I should buy a Cadillac instead of a Lexus just so I can say "I support America?" As we've heard from several sources now, most European luxury buyers are just nationalistic snobs.

Also, name all the times in your lifetime the phrases "F1" and "500hp" have been mentioned together in production cars? I can't believe a person has so much disdain for the brand that they try to minimize the significance of such a performance vehicle.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 8/29/2007 5:01:25 PM

0 Boost

I'm with Rupert on this one.

Will, I'll give you a reason why Americans buy Lexus:
it's because they're American. And Lexus is designed for Americans. Remember the days where Lexus had golden emblems all over the place? You think that is genuine Japanese design? Or the creme beige interiors with shiny wood? Huh? It's all made for Americans!

I hate to take sides but Lexus lacks history compared to the European brands and this is its biggest drawback in a market where image and brand history are very important. Selling a car laden with technology for a "cheap" price won't attract the majority of Europeans.

S4cabriofoxone - 8/29/2007 6:24:48 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Designer1, you have to understand something.

Lexus won't AUTOMATICALLY get a foothold in Europe. It takes time and money- both which they're devoting to the US right now, for good reason. The US is, realistically, all they need. They get roughly 70% of their sales here and don't need to compete head-on with the German 3 in sales to gain respect.

However, with ever-ambitious Toyota standing guard, their push for excellence wins out. But they need to stop focusing on the US so much and start looking at other areas more seriously.

This is, in fact, similar to what Rupert said about Audi in the US. Although Audi's American predicament is far better than Lexus's in Europe, proportionately, they are similar. If they switched ad departments, it might actually work. Why don't we bring it up with the Audi of America boss and the Lexus Europe CEO? LOL.

AUTO_UNION - 8/29/2007 1:52:50 PM

-2 Boost

Designer1:
You are so wrong! Europeans don't buy Lexus simply because it doesn't have history or racing heritage! Also because Europeans are quite conservative.

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MercBasher - 8/29/2007 4:48:10 PM

+2 Boost

Europeans would rather ride around in grim black and grey plastic and cloth interiors - and pay exorbitant amounts for the privilege. My new fully-loaded 2007 BMW 335i Convertible was around $60,000 in Florida try getting the same in Europe for less than the equivalent of $100,000.

With auto prices so high in Europe all the idiots try and pretend they are driving nice motors, when really they are buying four cylinder E Class or 5 series models in greater numbers than the six or eight cylinder versions. These folks are not going to switch to a six, eight, ten or twelve cylinder Lexus -because a four cylinder MB or Benz is what impresses the hairdressers!

So what's the point, well Lexus doesn't need an M5 fighter. It needs to lower its prices in Europe and take share from real car lovers and leave the hairdressers to buy the four cylinder Mercedes and BMW.

Rupert - 8/29/2007 6:12:10 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

A loaded 335i convertible would be around 80000 dollars in Britain, less in continental Europe.

Rupert - 8/29/2007 1:59:14 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

2012...

right.

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Agent009 - 8/29/2007 2:06:04 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

The biggest problem is by 2012 500 hp will be common place. 400 hp was the mark only 5 years, now you have to bring 500 to the table to be a true contender. Next year it could be raised to over 600 if the RS6 arrives with 610hp.

If the GS-F comes to market with 500 hp in 2012 it will never be considered serious.

IS3andME - 8/29/2007 3:00:54 PM

+5 Boost

Crazylarry, you might want to check Youtube, there you will see tued IS300's blowing the doors off of everything from 911 Turbos to Supras to Vipers.

As it was stated, 2012 is too long, by that time the BMW M5 will probably have a V12 and pushing 600 + HP. Plus the GS-F hasn't gotten the green light yet, so it is all speculation.

Rupert, is funny, he says that Euros don't like Lexus because Lexus lacks cheaper models, but then says that Lexus has a poor brand image because it is not thought of a premium brand... Way to go in using logic there.

And the last time I checked, the UK which is part of Europe likes Lexus a lot, it is only the Continent which Lexus doesn't have a foothold of yet.

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Rupert - 8/29/2007 6:18:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I know I contradicted myself IS3andMe, but that's the way it is.
It's really weird, they don't have strong sales because they're non-premium selling a premium product (plus Europe's aversion to large petrol cars), yet at the same time they can't sell cheaper versions because it would ruin what little image they have.
I have no idea how they should get around that.

The UK likes Lexus more than the rest of Europe, but Lexus still only sells about 10% of what the Germans each do.

What I think they should do is make smaller hybrids, so they're still "special" yet can be sold for less money attracting more people.
I.e. RX300h or LS400h, plus of course diesels, a 3.0 diesel would be very well received in all models. But Toyota only has one, very old 6 cylinder diesel (an ancient 4.2 in the Land Cruiser)...they need to spend money and make a new one.

Will_ - 8/29/2007 3:01:06 PM

+7 Boost

Sad are people who actually feel it necessary to type out such crap and hit "Submit Comment." Next time, don't even bother making yourselves look absolutely ridiculous, you've done enough of that for a lifetime.

If this were some news about a new BMW M9 8-door sedan it'd be a different atmosphere entirely.

I seriously doubt that in 2012 Lexus would use 500hp in the car, I share the same thoughts as some of the more reasonable people here. If it does, then yes, they have something to worry about, but Lexus is smarter than that, and this car doesn't even exist yet.

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Kinger - 8/30/2007 7:43:42 AM

-1 Boost

Speaking of which, does anyone have any info on the proposed M9 8-door?

david989 - 8/29/2007 3:32:34 PM

+1 Boost

I was waiting for Lexus to show the M5 the way out the door.

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Star - 8/29/2007 4:04:17 PM

-1 Boost

Count on a 100 years wait...

BMW995 - 8/29/2007 4:07:42 PM

-1 Boost

As a recent Lexus IS250 buyer, which I truly enjoy the handling and performance...I took the car in for service, got a new ES350 loaner, remarked what a nice looking car.
Then I drove it, or attempted to drive it. The car was almost undrivable. I almost could not control the direction of the car with the steering wheel. The handling was pathetic. Who are they fooling. I know FWD is not equal to RWD, but give me a break! Folks, before you buy one please drive it and be very careful around curves.

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SupraNeverBack - 8/29/2007 4:22:29 PM

+2 Boost

Simply because you are not a good driver.

Star - 8/29/2007 4:59:47 PM

-1 Boost

You are wrong SupraNeverBack. Bad drivers thinks Lexus makes good cars, is the enthusiast that sees how bad a Lexus drives.

S4cabriofoxone - 8/29/2007 6:07:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

BMW995, you're talking about the ES350 that can't handle, but instead own an IS250 that can't accelerate. Why not go for the best of both worlds and get an IS350? Or did you need the AWD?

SupraNeverBack - 8/29/2007 4:24:54 PM

+3 Boost

2012? 5years away...

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528i - 8/29/2007 4:53:09 PMView My AgentSpace

-8 Boost

Lexus..

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S4cabriofoxone - 8/29/2007 6:05:43 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Oh, so you're saying Lexus has 14 sextillion dollars? Yes, that's a real number, in case you didn't know.

They could put us out of international debt, and then some. They could give world peace. They could buy out everyone to be their slaves.

And I'm sure, according to you, all this will happen some day.

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Rupert - 8/29/2007 6:21:02 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I could do a lot with 14 sextillion dollars.

BTW are these American or British sextillions? :P

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Lexus - 8/29/2007 9:20:47 PM

+2 Boost

sport,

reading your posts, I can tell that you're freaking racist and a loser....what you get against Asian people? dump sob....

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Lexus - 8/29/2007 9:21:42 PM

+2 Boost

Secondly, where I live in OC areas there are many white people that own Lexus.

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Lexus - 8/29/2007 9:26:28 PM

+3 Boost

sport, did you use to work for a sweatshop own by an Asian family? and did they treated you really bad? If not than why do you have racist attitude Asian?

Or is it because you try to ask a "Hot Asian guy I mean girl out" and got rejected? what dweeb... It your attitude and other dumbass in America with similar attitude that cause the fall of American economy.

Asian work and other minority in the U.S. work their butt off to get where they are at. And they're here to stay so get you use to loser....

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STJ88 - 8/29/2007 6:03:58 PM

+1 Boost

@Star

He said the lexus ES doesn't drive good he didn't say all lexus's drive bad. He even sad that he liked the performance of the IS250.

So please read somebody's post better next time before you say stupid things.

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S4cabriofoxone - 8/29/2007 6:04:35 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Strange jumble of GS body, IS-F parts and LS front end in that photoshop. It also has terrible computer-generated paint. Something tells me the GS-F won't really look like that...

Anyway, cheers to competition! Let's hope this isn't just an also-ran.

With the 600hp RS6 waiting in the wings, Mercedes-Benz is probably feeling pressure to make a 650hp E65 AMG... will the madness ever end?

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Alec - 8/29/2007 6:15:44 PM

+5 Boost

Well for one thing guys... this is a god dam f**king prediction. And now all the German fanboys begin to blow smoke just cause itll only have 500hp by 2012 and wont handle. Let me ask all you German boys something, how do you know that Lexus will up their game and completely make a major difference to their sport line up? 4 more years is enough time for Lexus to still plan and execute a new sports designed car.

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valentino - 8/29/2007 6:26:10 PM

-4 Boost

Forget about lexus bmw and audi

it's Mercedes!!, preferably an amg-version offcourse

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Lexus - 8/29/2007 7:56:41 PM

+3 Boost

The new Lexus LF-A so suppose to be release really soon with 570hp under it hood. So by 2012 I said everyone in the this segement will up their horse power. So it likely by that time the GS-F will have 570hp and than the Lexus LF-F will have 640hp or more.

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Lexus - 8/29/2007 8:04:58 PM

+1 Boost

I would NOT be suprise when the Lexus GS-F come out of production with 650hp of it own. And than the Lexus LF-A will come out with a 700hp version by that time.

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Star - 8/29/2007 8:24:34 PM

-2 Boost

It will compete with the Viper and the Corvette Z06 not with Porsches, Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

Lexus - 8/29/2007 8:05:35 PM

+1 Boost

correctin, it Lexus LF-A NOT LF-F, LOL :)

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EL34 - 8/29/2007 8:22:20 PM

-4 Boost

People in America buy Lexus' because they look girly.

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bimmermike2 - 8/29/2007 11:18:40 PM

-1 Boost

It was nice while it lasted, but this sight is owned and operated by children. Good luck in future endevours! Ciao!

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enthusiastx11 - 8/30/2007 12:35:26 AM

-1 Boost

not approved for production.

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r15mohd - 8/30/2007 9:39:18 AM

+3 Boost

rumors and speculations always drive these german fanboys nuts!!!

Lexus is your primary comeptitor, DEAL WITH IT !!!

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henbmw - 8/31/2007 9:51:59 AM

+1 Boost

If you hadn't noticed, 'history' and 'tradition' are staples of almost every high priced good. Many houses are classically fashioned, wrist-watches are almost exclusively bought on their prestige, furniture and so on.

Lexus can throw all the techno wizardry they want in their cars however people will continue to buy certain cars for their history in addition to their attributes. And to many, including me, there is nothing wrong with that.

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autopro - 8/31/2007 2:29:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You can say what ever you want,and lexus sales will just keep growing,and growing its the beginning of the end for all the other luxury makes they will become a non issue.

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adamsaf723 - 9/1/2007 2:10:34 AM

+1 Boost

If you didn't know this was coming, then you have been missing out. The F-Division should really do something with Coupe while they're at it.

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BMWfan_Alfredo - 12/11/2007 1:57:59 AM

+1 Boost

i guess lexus finally figured out that they gotta compete with the big boys or be left behind...thats why Porsche is coming out with the Panamera , to compete with audi/bmw sedans, gotta have a car for every kinda people

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