451HP C63 STILL can't beat the 414HP BMW M3? RS4 falls to 3rd place?

BTW, the RS4 fell to third place, obviously. It was benchmarked. Just like how Audi benchmarked the C4S and M3 when building the B7 RS4--BMW did the same in making the E90/E92 M3. The next RS4 will leapfrog it, etc.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 4:32:46 PM | | Votes: 0   

No, it isn't. The Turbo achieves a 3.5 sec time... on an "average" day. Under ideal conditions, it gets dangerously close to 3 sec flat.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 4:31:44 PM | | Votes: -4   

the mcmerc and lambo murc are 3.8 sec cars. when did the turbo surpass this party?

— Gennissen (View Profile)

Posted on 11/12/2007 10:05:59 AM | | Votes: 2   

I did see a time at, I believe Motortrend, 3.4sec. 0-60. To me it seems that Car and Driver usually publishes the quickest 0-60 and quartermile times. They must go to great lengths to test these cars in the ideal conditions, ie. type of asfalt, tire pressure, fuel tank, lauch, etc..

— golfer38 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/12/2007 12:10:44 PM | | Votes: 1   

the M3 did 4.3s, and thats an manual gear box. like the M5, the SMG version is almost 1 second quicker than the maunual one. so i m expecting to see the the SMG M3 goes under 4 seconds as well.

— dayday (View Profile)

Posted on 11/14/2007 8:48:24 AM | | Votes: 1   

Agreed. It must be be said that all three of these cars are multitudes better than most cars on the road. Just to be running in this group is a privilege.

— henbmw (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 4:41:05 PM | | Votes: 5   

+1... you just cant go wrong with any of them. And my first choice is my first choice no matter who comes out on top in the comparisons.

— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 4:42:55 PM | | Votes: 4   

Absolutely!! I couldn't agree more. One must also bear in mind that traditionally Merc has always had a more "stuffy" and "older" image than BMWs although in reality this is hardly the case. Car magazines, in their never ending quest to demonstrate just how "professional" and "brilliant" their views and driving skills are, will almost always side with what they think the majority of the public perception of these cars is - these magazines are, after all, running a business and readership numbers (which in turn translates to more advertisers). I think the compact super performance cars is the epitome of this situation. Another good example is at the other end of the spectrum, the large executive saloons where somehow the Merc S-Class is almost always given the honours despite how good other competitors are (be it BMW 7 Series, Lexus LS, Audi A8).

The same thought came to mind when I read the Autocar comparison of the C63 and the M3 a couple of weeks ago where the author, Chris Harris (of whom I am a fan), said essentially that for more than 80% of the time the C63 does all things just as good as or in some cases much better than the M3 and that the BMW only comes into its own when you get the rare opportunity to really ring the car's neck off above the 7000rpm mark, but for most of the time the C63 really is the better everyday proposition then, lo and behold, towards the end of his article, he says its hard to choose a winner but I will give to the BMW - Huh??? I would have thought that, based on his (not mine) line of thinking thoughout his article, the C63 being the winner is a natural conclusion given that it's a far more all rounded car and just as thrilling a driving machine? I guess the fact that the author had placed an order for a BMW M3 had nothing to with it....

Before the BMW fan boys trash my post, I want to make it clear that I like both of these cars just as much. I have ordered both of them to replace the C55 and previous generation BMW M3 that my wife and I currently drive. My point is, many car magazines will always subscribe to the "sporty" and "car-that-requires-more-driving-skill-to-enjoy-its-full potential" philosophy because it makes them look good . AMG has always, in their minds, stood more for "point-and-squirt" performance which uses big engines rather than fine handling to prove its point (which to some extent is true), hence, even when a product like the C63 comes along which goes against all their pre-conceptions, it will take a long time before they will actually change their mentality - just look at Audi which had to suffer the indignity of being put down by all these car mags until three generations of S and RS A4 models went by.

— marcust (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 9:50:17 PM | | Votes: 6   

"I think the compact super performance cars is the epitome of this situation. Another good example is at the other end of the spectrum, the large executive saloons where somehow the Merc S-Class is almost always given the honours despite how good other competitors are (be it BMW 7 Series, Lexus LS, Audi A8)."

Well, there's a fine line between true bias and when a car deserves to win. In this case, the S-Class is pretty clearly the best in its class right now. It is so excellent in every respect--gorgeous inside and out, confident handling, perfect suspension, all of the latest features. Everyone wants one unless they have one.

Congrats on your C63 AMG and M3! I think you'll have trouble deciding which one you like better.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 11:40:19 PM | | Votes: 3   

S4, thanks for your input on my example of the S-Class segment as another illustration of how magazines judge cars. In general I gree with what you say (but more on that below).

I just wanted to add that I don't think we can label magazines as biase towards any particular brand but rather they want to make themselves look good or sound like real professional drivers (although in some cases, some testers really ex racing or rally car drivers) so as to add credibility to their magazine. Readers of the magazine will then feel the same, hence, stay loyal because they wish to identify (or see) themselves as great drivers too.

In my example of the the S-class segment, I would agree with you that the current S-Class really is quite mean piece of work and clearly has the edge on most of its competitors in so many areas. But cast your mind back to when the first iteration of the Bangle-designed 7 Series came out - the "new" 7 Series still failed to win the then version of the S-Class which I couldn't understand because having owned (my folks that is) that generation of the S-cLass and then test driven the 7, it was clear to me that the 7 had moved the game on by some degree. Anyway, I guess and hope most cars consumers are smart enough to judge for themselves what car best suits their needs rather than buy a car based purely on whether the rest of the world will judge them as "cool" because of how magazines judge a car. That would be sad.

— marcust (View Profile)

Posted on 11/12/2007 2:16:41 AM | | Votes: 2   

Yes, that's what I've always said about this three. Unlike only three years ago--when the M3 was clearly the best in this class--all three present fierce competition for each other and for our wallets. I still don't know which I would choose... well, I don't think I would get the C63, if only because I'm not a Mercedes guy. It's awesome but I wouldn't feel comfortable driving it. That leaves the RS4 and M3, and still, I can't choose.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 6:50:13 PM | | Votes: 0   

*THESE* three...

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 6:50:35 PM | | Votes: -1   

If the M3 is the better driver's machine, it deserves to win. Although the RS4 and C63 are right up on top of its bumper, the M3 STILL has the best handling, and that's what seals the deal.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/11/2007 11:41:27 PM | | Votes: 3   

C63 does 0-60 in 3.9... check out Car and Driver.

— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/12/2007 5:55:39 PM | | Votes: 1   

Oh its a real engine, the die-cast, over-eutectic aluminium-silicon engine block is sourced from BMW's Landshut F1 foundry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S65

— Kinger (View Profile)

Posted on 11/13/2007 8:34:35 AM | | Votes: 1   

agreed^^^^^^^^^

— AMGZING_fanboy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/14/2007 2:00:05 PM | | Votes: 1   

These are all great cars and they are evenly matched in almost every way. Its no surprise the magazines will "take turns" coming out with THEIR choice winners just to be different but each article is hardly the bible.

To me, the exception makes a big difference, Audi has quattro AWD and the others do not. I can drive it all year around including in snow and still performs as good.

— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 11/14/2007 10:10:19 AM | | Votes: 0