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After Performance Shortfalls Lexus LF-A Release Delayed, GS-F Now On Chopping Block

Agent009 submitted on 08/11/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:19 AM
from: www.autospies.com

[72] user comments | category: Misc News

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After Performance Shortfalls Lexus LF-A Release Delayed, GS-F Now On Chopping Block

The Automotive News is reporting early today that Lexus’ remaining entries into the high performance sector have suffered yet another blow.

The high profile LF-A which was supposed to arrive later this year, has failed again to make performance targets for the second time. Lexus has decided to push back the $160,000 sports car back to late 2010 or early 2011. Persistent rumors remain on the viability of the project in general, and whether not Lexus truly needs the LF-A as a halo car to define the brand. We can all agree this If the LF-A fails to meet performance marks for yet a third time the entire project may be doomed to failure simply because a total redesign will now be on the block.

The upcoming GS-F the bigger and supposedly badder brother to the IS-F, has also been placed on hold until at least 2011 when the GS undergoes a complete redesign. A final decision will be made at that time if the GS-F will be produced.

With these highly visible delays of a high profile projects, Lexus has increased the speculation on just how healthy the luxury marque is both in the US and abroad. While we personally don’t think Lexus is in dire financial trouble, the possible cancellation of any of these projects may place a shadow on any future efforts to establish Lexus as anything other than a Cadillac contender.

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answer - 8/11/2008 11:34:46 AMView My AgentSpace

+14 Boost

If true, Lexus needs to just axe the damn LF-A. It's getting boring as a concept car, and the it's doubtful the finished production version would be special enough to make the extreme wait worth it.

I have long been a fan of Lexus, but this is just silly.

reply to this comment

Agent009 - 8/11/2008 11:50:57 AMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

It really draws in the following questions:

1. Is Toyota committed to the performance enthusiast?
2. Can Toyota/Lexus react fast enough in the performance market to keep up?
3. Do they actually have the technology in place to be on top?

bmwdrvr - 8/11/2008 12:09:59 PM

+4 Boost

well given the downturn in sales at Lexus, and across the luxury market.....i hardly see why in the world to the top brass at Lexus creating a line of performance cars is so important to business......or what was the point of saying they would be nothing but a Cadillac competitor...which was downgrading to Cadillac(which explains why we dont see much on Cadillacs on this site) Lexus in my opinion really doesnt need to create a performance line of cars to compete with M, AMG, and it appears at least to many they have the prestige factor I would suggest seeing where they can improve their current line of cars for the next generation......if they invest to create a whole line of F cars just for them to fail in the market solely to appease the very small amound of people that buy these cars anyway that sounds like a bigger loss to me.....

Agent001 - 8/11/2008 12:48:34 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

009,

The question IS- With gas prices the way they are IS there a performance market anymore?

;)

001

Agent009 - 8/11/2008 1:01:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

001,

There will always be a performance market. But only toughest will survive. Just like the later 70's, everyone freaked but then, the true pioneers survived to this day.

8O

silverarrow2 - 8/11/2008 1:24:29 PM

-3 Boost

Who are they kidding?

I know Toyota would do something like that. They would never go before the NSX, they wanna see what they are up againts and quickly go back to the track or designing board. That's what Toyota/Lexus does best, Copycat.

And that my friend is the plain reason why Toyota decided to delay the LF.

bmwdrvr - 8/11/2008 2:02:48 PM

+1 Boost

people are also still buying Hummers, and gas guzzling suvs, so there is obviously a market for them......does them everyone should start making more just because a small group of people are still buying?????, the logic is wrong with that statement the GS is barely making it and it makes sense to create a high performance gas guzzling variant...no wait till the next generation to see how the market fairs and work on creating one of hell of a GS not a car that will add very little sales to the fold. Im no lexus fan but i think they are smart with business, and like the Cadillac you tried to say were beneath will have to make hard decisions regarding future products that make sense to SURVIVAL.....and for the record the era you were speaking of saw the end of many performance cars, and the unfortunate reinterpretation of many others(mustang) and when the market got better than they returned......that sounds like a better move....

Bored - 8/11/2008 7:50:19 PM

0 Boost

@ Agent009,

Easy question with easy answers. Questions 2 and 3 are "yes" or at least "quite possibly".

Question 1 is sadly IMO "no" -- When was the last time we had a Supra or Supra Turbo? Celica, Celica GT-S and the GT-Four? Hell, remember the Corolla FX-16 GTS?

Sure, Toyota and Subaru have a joint effort to prepare a new sports car for each manufacturer. But look how long it took Toyota to get off its ass to do so.

I do think that one factor that hasn't been mentioned is their F1 factory team -- $300+ mil/yr since 2002 and their best Constructor's standing is 4th and no wins (Ralf Schumacher didn't help, either).

If the LF-A makes the light of day, it will be a great car...just not a $160K great car.

cptamazing4 - 8/11/2008 11:37:11 AM

Show Comment -18 Boost

lexusrox123 - 8/11/2008 2:26:39 PM

+5 Boost

what an idiot ^^^^

designing a high performance car isnt always easy

cptamazing4 - 8/12/2008 6:55:28 AM

-1 Boost

GM HAS NO PROBLEM.LMAO!!!!!!

MBKing - 8/11/2008 11:53:49 AM

-4 Boost

I feel like lexus has a good grandma and grandpa market, they don't need fast cars, so lexus shouldn't waste money making fast cars. Simple as that. Go lexus! My granny loves hers.

reply to this comment

SanJoseDriver - 8/11/2008 12:08:08 PM

+2 Boost

Lexus needs performance cars if they are planning to expand their market share. The LF-A might be a little unnecessary, but they should continue with the F series. I'm not sure if any of you guys have driven an IS-F, but it's pretty impressive. You get the best of what's Lexus (luxury, technology) with a taste of M/AMG performance.

Audiphile - 8/11/2008 11:59:42 AM

+7 Boost

After reading this, MichaelTaylor is probably in mourning.

Seriously, Toyota has dragged its corporate feet on this car for so long that they might as well start all over again.

reply to this comment

WorldofLuxury - 8/11/2008 6:16:25 PM

-1 Boost

MichaelTaylor isn't the only one that's sad...

I AM TOO!!! Some of you just don't understand that I'm a true Lexus fan, and every bad news makes me feel really uneasy...don't know how I'm gonna face up to my Merc-obsessed friends.
I'd buy the LF-A because I'd love it (and my first super/sports-car)...I'm not interested in the GS-F, but I do want Lexus to make one 'cause I'm their fan...and I want them to be NUMBER 1!!!

enthusiastx11 - 8/11/2008 12:08:27 PM

+7 Boost

so the LF-A will be a concept at the auto show for the 6th time in 2009, the 7th in 2010 and maybe the 8th in 2011.

it's it time for a new model? that's a bit long in the tooth.

reply to this comment

EL34 - 8/11/2008 12:21:47 PM

-1 Boost

chop-chop :-D

reply to this comment

_43LE - 8/11/2008 12:24:42 PM

+4 Boost

I think that this is a sign of the times in the luxury arena. BMW just chopped plans for the X7 too.

w209w114 - 8/11/2008 12:55:24 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

The X-7 Hasnt been a concept for 4 years.

_43LE - 8/11/2008 1:29:30 PM

+1 Boost

Yeah, I'm just saying that it's a sign of the times. Besides, the LF-A isn't completely done for good yet. FYI, the X7 has been in the works since 2003.

w209w114 - 8/11/2008 7:58:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Show me concept pictures of the X7 and if its been in the works since 2003 imagine how long the LFA has been in the works. 1998 maybe?

_43LE - 8/11/2008 9:24:59 PM

0 Boost

Well, it takes a lot longer to develop a new platform with completely new technology that taking a current platform (i.e. 7 series) and modifying it.

BigShow50 - 8/11/2008 12:23:18 PM

+5 Boost

I have to say this is getting out of hand, but at the same time Lexus can afford to hold off. This is not their bread and butter for now. They will come to their senses, you guys just have to get used to their level of patience, they will get there only a matter of time. As for cptamazing4, your comments are as useless as "Tits on a boar", love your style of bashing though. It's just unfortunate that you cannot afford any luxury car on this planet or even a car in general....

reply to this comment

pushrod27 - 8/11/2008 12:39:45 PM

+6 Boost

Lexus is missing the boat. They should drop the 5.0 is-f v8 into that body, call it the new SC500 and sell it now for $70k. Give up the Ferrari beater fantasy. Sell a powerful, attractive, luxurious, reliable, and mildly entertaining sport coupe at a price slightly below european cars of the same meddle (xk, sl, gran turismo) Why is Lexus trying to abandon their winning formula for motorsport fantasies?

reply to this comment

85bmw745i - 8/11/2008 6:06:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Could not have said it better myself. They should pay you for disclosing that lol

vonbeeler - 8/11/2008 10:51:10 PM

+3 Boost

Pushrod you hit it exactly. Everytime they have something fairly succesfull they just let it die like the SC. All they need to do is use SC platform put a great body on, drop that motor in and done.

w209w114 - 8/11/2008 12:59:50 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Wow. By now it wouldnt surprise me if this whole "Lexus LF-A" thing was really a conspiracy to make us believe Lexus is building a supercar in an effort at their brand image.

Not that I believe it because I sure hope Toyota is as respectable as they portray themselves, but it really wouldnt surprise me after 4 years of hearing about this concept (thats nearly the entire lifecycle of a car model)

reply to this comment

w209w114 - 8/11/2008 1:00:34 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Effort at boosting their brand image**

M35MT - 8/11/2008 1:26:35 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

LF-A:
Delays because performance targets suggests that they aim to beat the R8 and GT-R. Tough goals to meet.

GS-F:
Waiting for the redesign makes sense to ensure strong sales.

reply to this comment

M35MT - 8/11/2008 1:27:26 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

"The Automotive News is reporting early today that Lexus’ remaining entries into the high performance sector have suffered yet another blow."

Link?

reply to this comment

mitchatlexusofmarin - 8/11/2008 4:54:41 PM

0 Boost

How can there be a link when there is no such article??

mitchatlexusofmarin - 8/11/2008 6:02:05 PM

-3 Boost

Actually, I apologize to A9. There is truth to this post. My humble apologies. Motor Trend just reported the same thing as well....

LexSucks - 8/11/2008 1:38:15 PM

+5 Boost

Not meeting performance goals? Didn't the LF-A do like a 7.24 at the ring? I guess not. LOL!!!!

Where are the Lexus Fanboys now? LOL!!!

reply to this comment

lexusrox123 - 8/11/2008 2:30:52 PM

-3 Boost

im here

btw, lexus is smart enough not to release the lf-a if its not good enough to beat anything. it takes time to build a perfect car. thus, the lexus motto : The pursuit of perfection. thats just my 2 cents

enthusiastx11 - 8/11/2008 2:11:35 PM

+12 Boost

you are the perfect embodiment of a complete ass.

reply to this comment

09CTSVforMe - 8/11/2008 3:16:26 PM

+8 Boost

"... soul performance and comfort. A superb blend between those two..."

ummm...soul + performance + comfort = two? lol

reply to this comment

MSP6 - 8/11/2008 10:03:45 PM

+2 Boost

"what a dream car this thing is"

Yep, you've never been so right Mike, in fact this car is only a dream, cause it will never see production.

reply to this comment

Agent63 - 8/12/2008 7:27:29 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

MT,

Is your Camry taken out by your dad again? Quit hating on other companies we all know that you think your Camry is a Lexus. Imagination runs wild in the world of Michael Troll Taylor.

reply to this comment

njsidekick3 - 8/11/2008 1:49:42 PM

+3 Boost

Lexus fell off... they make corny cars now.
*gives Pass to GS*

reply to this comment

09CTSVforMe - 8/11/2008 3:11:34 PM

+4 Boost

"...establish Lexus as anything other than a Cadillac contender"

What an a$$. Way to keep up the autospies idiotic need to throw a brand that is completely unrelated to the article under your biased bus.

Obviously the choice of MY favorite brand irritates me more than if you'd have said BMW, Audi, or MB, but seriously...what is the point of putting any other brand in there at the last word when your "article" was rather focused on the F series up to that point? There is none, but to elicit unrealted argument.

Here's a clue for ya' Scooby, in case you cannot fathom why or how your last statement is completely off base and total BS.

Cadillac has a well deserved and thoroughly validated place in the high-power sedan and sports car market. Cadillac CTS-V has outperformed even the beloved M and AMG series, and we all know how the Lexus fares in that company. I won't even begin to speculate on the results we'll see with the new gen V coming soon, whether Lexus has an F designation or not.

This is why autospies doesn't get credibility as "journalism"...because it isn't.

That is why they'll never be able to establish themselves as anything other than a blog contender.

reply to this comment

IS3andME - 8/11/2008 3:21:35 PM

0 Boost

Well, be specific, what target goals did it miss? The pre-production car supposedly did 7;24 on the Ring, that ain't shabby, and maybe they wanted to shave a couple more 10ths off of that? This article is vague at best and offers no real data. And We have know that the GS-f was going to come out on the next gen GS, that has been known for almost a year, and was stated by Lexus themsleves. Especially sense, the current IS rides on a modified GS chassis, and the current M5 will be replaced in a few years, it would be best to have the GS-F to come out when the new M5 comes out, common sense, No?

I wish the haters, would use that.

reply to this comment

sector - 8/11/2008 3:34:21 PM

-6 Boost

Lexus only wants perfection, that's the way they do things... sure this can work for us consumers as we can have the most reliable and robust vehicles out there but in this case, I say just bring out what you have already, it'll still be heads and shoulders above any of its competition any way, just reduce the price a little :)

reply to this comment

Star - 8/11/2008 5:18:53 PM

+6 Boost

"Lexus only wants perfection"

I think Lexus needs first to succeed in building decent cars before aiming for perfection(already achieved by BMW and Mercedes).

Star - 8/11/2008 7:01:34 PM

+4 Boost

I get you never owned a German car, "damikco".

huu76 - 8/11/2008 3:36:01 PM

-2 Boost

If you can't do it right, then don't do it. Lexus is screwed either way. If they release it with lowered standards, they lose. If they don't and delay, they lose.

Toyota just picked the lesser of two evils. BMW doesn't even have a Porsche rival, so what's the rush. Porsche isn't going anywhere.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 8/11/2008 3:39:12 PM

-6 Boost

Toyota should just release a carbon-fibre supra with an updated engine. The original can already outdo most of todays peformance cars, a lighter more powerful one would basically destroy anything that costs less that $300K.

Less development costs and its aleady got proven credentials.

reply to this comment

KeyserSoze - 8/11/2008 3:54:02 PM

+6 Boost

Lexus makes some good cars, but they make some of the most bizzare boardroom decisions in the automotive arena. Yes they dont need the GS-F or a 1 series competitor but they decide to can the SC and they have no coupe's.

reply to this comment

KeyserSoze - 8/11/2008 4:02:39 PM

+2 Boost

another weakness is their one size fits all approach to cars, I know that it makes business sense but they need to change their style because it is starting to hurt them, limited engine sizes, no diesels except for the IS is going to hurt them big time.

reply to this comment

KeyserSoze - 8/11/2008 4:10:45 PM

0 Boost

The LF-A may have been put on the backburner because of pending EU legislation that may threaten the very existence of the supercar establisment and its not just Lexus, a lot of manufacturers are having second thoughts about those big V12,V10 or V8 engines

reply to this comment

Czelinski - 8/11/2008 4:40:03 PM

+1 Boost

That really doesn't look much at all to be honest. No Lexus is worth a wait, especially that.

reply to this comment

Star - 8/11/2008 5:16:20 PM

+5 Boost

That F proved to be a F-ailure again for Lexus.

reply to this comment

Autoegr525 - 8/11/2008 5:51:10 PM

+8 Boost

That's embarrassing

reply to this comment

xj13 - 8/11/2008 7:07:08 PM

+4 Boost

Well done GTR you killed the LFA.

reply to this comment

DrFill2009 - 8/11/2008 8:46:24 PM

+2 Boost

Nissan GT-R is fast as stink.
But twice as ugly!
A picture is worth a 1000 words.
If you build it.
They will come!
DrFill

reply to this comment

Alec - 8/11/2008 9:08:03 PM

+2 Boost

Failed to meet performance targets? err what are they aiming for? By the time this is ever put into production, the competition the Lf-a is aiming for would be tweaked, updated, re freshened, and refined. LF-a is going to stay a test/show car.

reply to this comment

mikeydred20 - 8/11/2008 9:37:18 PM

-3 Boost

NSX scared them away "Advance"

reply to this comment

steve27t - 8/11/2008 11:00:49 PM

+1 Boost

There is no way in the world that this Lexus looks like a $160,000 vehicle. Maybe Lexus realises they cannot sell this thing? Maybe they could find a few rich Russian oligarchs. The Russians have a lot of jokes that go like this.... Yuri, I just got this new suit for $1,000. Boris... so, I got one just like it last week and mine was $2,000.

reply to this comment

Agent63 - 8/12/2008 7:24:32 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"While we personally don’t think Lexus is in dire financial trouble, the possible cancellation of any of these projects may place a shadow on any future efforts to establish Lexus as anything other than a Cadillac contender."

- YES THATS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG!. IT'S ON THE SAME TIER AS CADILLAC (IT'S TRUE MAIN RIVAL IN THE US MARKET).

hate it or love it but it's true. i'll defend my LS in saying that its a well built car and the best alternative to Cadillac but it's completely different than my S550. I feel normal driving an LS whereas my S550 gives me that added confidence.

reply to this comment

09CTSVforMe - 8/12/2008 7:52:40 AM

0 Boost

I'm glad your Lexus makes you feel normal, and Cadillac drivers don't need to derive extra personal confidence from their car. lol

Enjoy your MB/Jeep knobs!

Agent63 - 8/12/2008 9:59:38 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I feel bad for you. You've probably never been inside an S Class before. Too bad Cadillac has nothing that even comes close to it. I do like the current CTS though, it's the best looking Cadillac in recent years.

Confidence as in confidence in my purchase.

09CTSVforMe - 8/12/2008 3:26:57 PM

-3 Boost

Awww, aren't you SO SWEET!?

Hey pal, I sat in every MB for the last 6 years, including the $100,000+ AMG's, and if you can't accept the FACT that up until the last couple of newest models that MB and Jeep's had the exact same HVAC controls, then you are truly blind and I do not feel bad for you. I'll give you that the S class started the trend to finally get away from the Chrysler plague, and that should continue, for everyone's sake.

I just get a kick out of people like you who think Lexus and Cadillac are on some different level than German cars and yet overlook things like I have pointed out. To each his own, but until you're comparing these makes to Bentley's or Maserati's, you shouldn't be talking of different levels.

Cadillac and MB don't even belong in this thread, frankly.

Agent63 - 8/14/2008 2:32:46 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Oh well we all have our opinions. You're the one who has received negative boosts, none which are from me.

Mercedes is a much more recognized luxury brand and more prestigious than a Cadillac. Mercedes are sold by themselves. Cadillac's are sold alongside eco-GM cars. Not convincing to me. Like I said I like the new CTS, it looks stunning. It's the best modern day looking Cadillac to date for me.

Cadillac & Mercedes don't belong on this thread just as much as you're discussion about "people like me" are on this thread. END OF CONVO. Move on to something else.

ktu01 - 8/13/2008 2:56:36 AM

+1 Boost

It's getting rather tiring seeing the LF-A concept at car shows and reading news articles about it when the launch is taking so long. Not saying that developing a car should be fast (it takes years), but they've been displaying it (which is, to some degree, advertising it) for so long now that it's not that exciting anymore.

reply to this comment

Mercedes - 8/13/2008 4:42:49 AM

+2 Boost

Here is the difference between BMW/MB and Lexus. The Germans aren't going to cancel a thing, they'll try to make it fit in with the time and if it doesn't so be it. There will always be some buyers for performance vehicles. Toyota's logic won't allow it to loosen their straight-laced thinking long enough for Lexus to truly to be competitive. BMW and Mercedes' aren't canceling AMG and M cars so why should Lexus cancel their performance variants. BS if you think that gas prices have anything to do with that sports car being delayed, that is all ZR-1 and GT-R and now the new NSX. The head engineering likely told them to get their asses back to the drawing board to beat the other sports car, ain't got nothing to do with gas prices. Its lap times. They aren't going to release the LF-A until it can whip the competition around the ring. Which means you Lexus fans gonna be waiting for a while.

reply to this comment

montyz81 - 8/14/2008 1:44:27 PM

+1 Boost

I suspect your right. Anyone who buys a Lexus would expect it to be better all around then cars from mainstream brands like Chevy and Nissan. The LF-A must be faster then, look better then both the Corvette and GT-R. I too would wait if my perf numbers did not beat out those two cars. Although, I think the car really looks nice in that picture. That said, I would still buy the GT-R because I am a Nissan Fan.

woood - 8/14/2008 1:37:55 AM

+1 Boost

The longer Lexus waits, the more the current BMWs and Mercedes Benzes break down because of too much electronics. This could be Lexus' strategy.

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