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After years of speculation, official Lexus IS-F performance numbers now public

Agent001 submitted on 10/04/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:43 AM
from: www.toyota.co.jp

[317] user comments | category: Spy News

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Tags: Lexus, IS-F, BMW, M3

Tag Links: Lexus, IS-F, BMW, M3

After years of speculation, official Lexus IS-F performance numbers now public

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Bill - 10/4/2007 4:20:35 AM

0 Boost

they made enough to beat BMW.



So the IS-F beats the M3? Really? Proof please.

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Kinger - 10/4/2007 4:34:12 AM

+2 Boost

"it's obvious they are going after each other. Lexus in performance bmw everywhere else."

Yeah, sure, BMW is chasing Lexus in every area other than performance, you're just rediculously biased.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 4:52:58 AM

-3 Boost

417 vs 414 horsepower? Wow! The Lexus IS-F is going to be so super duper fast! Anyone else think the BM M3 is underpowered? I mean 414 horsepower are nothing when compared to the Lexus IS-F Godly 417 horsepower rating. Come to think of it the Lexus IS-F could actually take on the Bugatti Veyron and probably win! What do you think, Nicad?

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Bill - 10/4/2007 5:05:11 AM

0 Boost

Now you're contradicting yourself. First you claim the IS-F will be faster than the M3 and now they're equally fast? Make up your damn mind and loose the bias.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 5:37:25 AM

0 Boost

when you'll grow up you'll understand that other companies other then german can acctually make cars as well.



One day when you grow up you will understand that Lexus is not God or perfect. Enough said.

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atomicbri - 10/4/2007 9:06:46 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

The IS-F is sure to be slower... look at the weight of its bonnet (sorry hood in the US) alone! LOL! Well I must say all you people saying it was going to be so far beyond the BMW in horsepower were sorely mistaken yet again. Lexus does just enough... cause it loves to copy and imitate.

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EnnNorak - 10/4/2007 9:44:24 AM

+1 Boost

A 5-litre displacement with the right compression ratio makes it theoretically possible to meet the h.p. claimed in spite of strict emissions. What I want to know is at what RPM is this h.p. figure achieved and what the torque curve looks like.

It's not hard to produce an engine that is better than BMW's V8. BMW makes a nice in-line six with iron liners but their V8 uses Alusil, a more brittle silicon impregnated block with no iron liners. I sure hope that this Lexus V8 uses iron cylinder liners.

Be prepared to pay six figures for the IS-F stateside and don't shop anywhere for groceries except at the Plam Beach Publix where the parking spaces are wide enough to prevent door dings -- note that the IS-F lacks protective anti-door-ding side strips.

i applaud Lexus for giving the IS-F 10-spoke wheels. LExus stylists have finally awakened and designed a nice wheel where the number of spokes is a multiple of the number of bolts.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 10:48:49 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"they made enough to beat BMW. seems Lexus and BMW have a thing going. LS600h has just enough horses to match the 760."

Okay, I'm sorry to tell you this... but BMW isn't chasing after Lexus in the horsepower wars. It's between Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz and Lexus will have to really work to get in.

These are great power figures- just about what I expected. From some sources, the M3 and RS4 have 420hp; from others they have 414. So in any event it's right in there with them.

But just to make this clear to you- more horsepower doesn't mean it will be faster OR better. The lighter the car is, the better- that will give it better handling and make it quicker. Lexus really has to prove to us that they can make a car that handles. Anyone can make it fast... but right now, all we know is that M-B, BMW and Audi really know how to make their hot rods fun.

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kart1 - 10/4/2007 12:09:54 PM

+3 Boost

Ok since we're talking about horsepower here I thought I'd mention one big thing that also affects acceleration, torque. The Lexus has about 80 more than the BMW and about 55 more than the Audi. I'd say only the MB will beat it in that department. So unless the Lexus weighs a lot more than the BMW or Audi, don't count it out so easily.

In response to S4 about Lexus just entering the hp war, that is true and they will need more engines to prove that they are here to stay


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enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 12:56:37 PM

+1 Boost

nowhere in this japanese press release does it state horsepower in SAE terms.

311kw power
505Nm torque

can someone please share the conversion formula? i don't know it.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 1:05:59 PM

+1 Boost

nicad:

and anyones who's been reading automotive publications for the last 20 years will tell you the BMW and Mercedes are very conservative in their performance estimates and horsepower ratings.

sure, BMW claims 4.8 for the M3. they claimed 5.3 for the 335i and that achieved 4.8. do you seriously think the M3 will do anything more than 4.3 or 4.4.

furthermore, though power is important, handling is MORE IMPORTANT. here lexus has a lot to prove. and they're already starting from a bad place with the IS-F as its weight distribution will be quite off due to the stretched front end and the heavy conventional 5.0 liter v8 mounted so far forward. not to mention their numb steering in previous 'sports' sedan like th e GS that you rave about.

there's still lots for lexus to prove. and this press release has added almost nothing.

let's see how this thing actually drives.

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chris760 - 10/4/2007 9:31:12 PM

0 Boost

Car and driver tested the m3 on a slippery track and got 4.4 sec to 60. i figure around 4.1 sec would be accurate

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chris760 - 10/4/2007 9:31:35 PM

+1 Boost

Car and driver tested the m3 on a slippery track and got 4.4 sec to 60. i figure around 4.1 sec would be accurate

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chris760 - 10/4/2007 9:32:51 PM

0 Boost

Car and driver tested the m3 on a slippery track and got 4.4 sec to 60. i figure around 4.1 sec would be accurate

also, the m3 has the lightest v8 in the market and a carbon fiber roof to lose weight

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ElSparquito - 10/4/2007 11:09:20 PM

0 Boost

There's much more to a car than horsepower, you know. If the IS-F turns out to be a pig like the IS350, then the HP will be negligible. IS350 is 110 LBS heavier than the 330i.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 12:51:00 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You're right, nicad. You live in a fantasy world in which Lexus is your god and represents all that is holy.

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zorbeeze - 10/5/2007 8:54:25 AM

-2 Boost

All you German fans need serious help. I couldn't care less where the car comes from. If it performs well than it deserves props. I think the german fan boys here are all blinded by the fact that the big 3 do not have the power and control over that market like they used to.
Times have changed. For one, Bill your just turning everything around, reread Nicad's post, unless you can't read. Ennorak and kart are the only one's that know what they're talking about. As for the 335i it can pull a 4.8 on a perfect situation but on average in the real world 5 flat is what it will always do which is maybe 0.1 seconds better than the IS350. As for Toyota not knowing how to build sports car all i have to say is the Supra. The 2JZ-GTE is among the greatest engines ever made. Point final.

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:01:04 AM

+1 Boost

thats decent for a first generation attempt for lexus. torque is pretty high too. i suspect it might be the slowest of the bunch, but if it really is under 4.9 seconds like lexus stated, it will do fine in comparison tests

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:07:12 AM

-7 Boost

i meant horsepower wise, weakest of the bunch, but no doubt, it will do fine.

if the car is light, then it will definately be able to keep up. they have to release the weight of the car first...

whats the torque of the bmw?

LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:15:47 AM

-7 Boost

i thought that the M3 has 420?

richardp996 - 10/4/2007 9:28:15 AM

+4 Boost

It's that different markets have different ratings due to their legislation. The UK 911 GT3 has about 405 horsepower while the majority of the rest of the world is 415 horsepower. Samething with this situation.

EnnNorak - 10/4/2007 9:50:03 AM

+3 Boost

Fast acceleration is a function of gear ratios as well. You can design a car to accelerate quickly between say 0 and 60 and be a snail between 100 and 150.

EnnNorak - 10/4/2007 9:56:40 AM

0 Boost

Who wants to drive thru London anyway? That's what London taxi cabs are for. Furthermore, in London and Tokyo they drive on the wrong side of the road. I would not drive in any large Metropolitan city. It's too dificult to find decent parking in New York during business hours. They drive like maniacs in Paris and many other cities too numerous to mention here.

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Rupert - 10/4/2007 3:30:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

What are you talking about????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You know absolutely nothing about the city I have lived in all my life and then spout crap about it!!!!

The IS-F (when the emissions charge comes in) will be paying exactly the same as the M3, as I highly doubt it will emit under 225 g/km CO2...the IS250 can't manage that.
The stupid American system for emissions is ONLY used in America, ULEV or whatever is NOT used anywhere else, and NOT in Europe!!!
THe IS-F pollutes like hell!!! It has a 5.0 V8 for chrissakes!!!!

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:09:57 AM

+6 Boost

actually it says 423 PS which converts to 417 hp

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Designer1 - 10/4/2007 2:51:50 PM

+4 Boost

1 kw = 1.34 hp, so it is 417 hps.

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Hyundai - 10/4/2007 10:40:17 PM

+3 Boost

You are renlex, right?

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Mercedes - 10/4/2007 3:21:19 AM

0 Boost

What the hell does the R8 have to do with this? The R8 is much lighter and has a another-league chassis from this IS sedan. Same hp as the R8, but nothing else.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 4:22:46 AM

+2 Boost

The only moron here is you, Nicad. So the IS-F has the virtually the same horsepower rating as the R8. Does that mean it will perform like the R8? Of course not. Weight and other factors play a crucial role in this.

Maybe you should go back to school instead of talking with the big boys...

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Bill - 10/4/2007 4:54:17 AM

-1 Boost

Nicad, you're so retarded I won't waste my time arguing with you anymore. I've lost too many braincells and lowered my IQ by too much already just reading your ultra-biased fanboy bullshit.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 10:51:23 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

"so you don't think putting the same horses that the R8 has in a small sedan is pretty damn impressive?"

Well... the RS4 has the same ENGINE as the R8. I think that's impressive.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 1:11:09 PM

-1 Boost

takes a lot of horses to move a bloated car.
notice that there's no revelation of weight statistics. that's because they're not pretty.

horsepower to weight ratio is a MUCH more relevant figure than HP alone.

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cdoke - 10/4/2007 2:42:12 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

"and 10 year olds don't have high IQ's"

As a matter of clarification, that is not true. I.Q. is the ratio of your mental age (which is what the test actually assesses) and your chronological age times 100. So someone with an I.Q of 140 and an age of 10 would have the mental age of a 14 year old. (Marilyn Vos Savant's current mental age is a highly theoretical 140) So for the ratio to remain the same the difference between your mental age and chronological age must increase over time. Chronological age generally wins as younger people generally score better on the IQ test than their adult selves.

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:11:06 AM

+2 Boost

no units are different. its 417...

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Agent001 - 10/4/2007 3:13:46 AMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

Here are the exact numbers the site is reporting

Maximum output [kW (PS) / rpm] 311 (423) / 6,600
Maximum torque [N-m (kg-m) / rpm] 505 (51.5) / 5,200

001

Heyhuub - 10/4/2007 3:12:37 AM

-1 Boost

Max torque at 5500rpm? taht isn't very good.

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Kinger - 10/4/2007 4:38:58 AM

+1 Boost

The M3 engine is remarkably high-revving for a V8, it also revs very smoothly. Its character is not like a V8 at all. I think the IS-F will have a more traditional lazier V8 engine, it won't be as on-edge and alive as the M3.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 10:53:37 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Yes, nicad. The RS4 doesn't have as much torque, either- but still more than the M3, and it's equally high-revving, which is fun. The C63 beats the IS-F on both figures, with 450hp and an incredible 44lb ft of torque.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 10:54:07 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Damn. I mean 444, obviously. LOL.

enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 1:16:24 PM

+2 Boost

yes, but that torque isn't available until the engine in revved up to 5500rpm. another lesson for nicad: this is why torque band is a useful piece of info.

fyi, the M3 develops peak torque at 3900rpm and revs up to an unbelievable 8400rpm.

1stgenaristoTT - 10/4/2007 3:38:03 PM

0 Boost

its 5200 moron

enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 8:13:02 PM

+1 Boost

nicad:

power/torque numbers can be evaluated only collectively. you need the whole picture, not just one data point.

just let us know when lexus reveals US specs for HP, torque, torque band and redline.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/5/2007 3:12:28 AM

+2 Boost

In fact it's bad. Cadillac has the same problem with their direct-injection V6. The torque-curve is everything is a car. The F430 Scuderia has exactly the same torque as a normal F430 but the torque curve is much flatter, ideal for on a track.

Compare the torque curve of the M3 or RS4 to the IS-F. (both high-revving engines, what makes is more difficult than a 5 litre V8!)

Peak torque at 5500 rpm for a 5 litre V8 is laughable. This shows how good the Germans really are at engine building.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/5/2007 3:17:26 AM

+2 Boost

"well, the reason it has way less torque is because it's high revving.

that's a characteristic of high revving engines- less torque.

I'll take my 6000-7000 rpms with more torque. thank you."

The IS-F is not high-revving. My Audi A8 4.2 can do 7000 rpm as well.

Other than that you have idea what you're on about.

528i - 10/4/2007 3:17:08 AMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Not bad.

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henbmw - 10/4/2007 2:46:52 PM

0 Boost

No, nicad, physics won't allow it.

henbmw - 10/4/2007 3:01:48 PM

0 Boost

oops, deboost

Mercedes - 10/4/2007 3:18:32 AM

0 Boost

Doesn't stand a chance against the C63 in straight-line performance, and I doubt a Lexus will do much with the new M3 in the corners. Come to think of it, not with the C63 either in handling.

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:20:49 AM

0 Boost

well, theres something to justify the extra 15K...a tenth of a second faster and a little better handling

im sure its worth it. ;)

S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 10:56:58 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

nicad, I again point out that that was from Edmunds.com. And I again say that they have some of the most inconsistent track/straight line times in the business. NO, that's not an excuse- I'm sure the IS250 X is fun. But they said they couldn't get the S6 to 60 in less than 5.6 seconds, while one magazine has gotten 4.7. They got the 335i from 0-60 in 4.7 seconds... which is still its fastest time. I'm not sure if it was even a stock vehicle, though it probably was. There have been so many other instances, but this is off the top of my head.

Threepoint1415926 - 10/4/2007 11:45:14 AM

+1 Boost

Remarkable how Lexus always comes back to 85% of the performance for 70% of the cost.

enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 1:22:48 PM

-1 Boost

nicad:

yes the IS250 did very well in slalom. notice it was the IS250, not the IS350. so with lexus you have to choose: underpowered IS250 with manual that handles well OR IS350 with an automatic and proper power that handles less well.

why can't they put all the right things (power, manual, handling) into ONE car?

henbmw - 10/4/2007 3:02:35 PM

+2 Boost

No, nicad, physics won't allow it.

enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 8:17:48 PM

+1 Boost

your responses are bizarre nicad.

why don't you ever respond to what people say?
instead you go off on these tangents and put words in people's mouths.

have you stopped taking your lithium? let us know if you need help.

sewingmachine - 10/4/2007 3:25:05 AM

+3 Boost

monster torque, nice.

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gsh23 - 10/4/2007 4:14:18 AM

+1 Boost

where did you get 3620? lexus website says for the IS350 Curb Weight (lb / kg) 3,527 / 1,599

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enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 1:27:44 PM

+2 Boost

well the IS250 does have the wonderful manual out of the tacoma. so they actually do share parts.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/4/2007 8:20:18 PM

+2 Boost

it's not humor nicad. it's a fact.

lexus didn't develop a manual at all.
they simply used the manual transmision out of the tacoma.

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komododave - 10/5/2007 12:56:29 AM

+2 Boost

I beleive it. They may make 10 million cars, but the tacoma manual tranny is the only one they make that could handle the torque and be small enough to fit. Most of Toyotas manuals are for 4 bangers and a couple of sixes, nothing with more than roughly 200lb/ft of torque. The V-8 would tear any of toyotas passenger car manual trannys to shreds.

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komododave - 10/5/2007 2:45:29 PM

+2 Boost

My comment is on CURRENT toyota vehicles, not cars that haven't been produced for ten years. If the Supra was still being produced then you'd be right, but alas, you are wrong as usual. Even your precious LF-A isn't going to have a manual tranny.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 4:26:05 AM

+1 Boost

Nicad, your mom is calling! Time to go to bed!

Please tell me how a Lexus, nevermind a BMW dealership, would let a totaly MORON like you drive these precious cars?

Oh, that's right, they didn't. Stop making up stories. If you can't type properly, you certainly cannot DRIVE PROPERLY either so don't come in here with your "I've driven the IS350/335i..." garbage. I see through posers like you.

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Kinger - 10/4/2007 4:40:57 AM

+3 Boost

Lets all disagree with what the experts are saying to the contrary and believe everything nicad has to say lol.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 4:55:47 AM

+2 Boost

Nicad, you're like what? 15 years old? How can your younger brother "drive"? Much less you!

You're so full of it.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 5:24:45 AM

0 Boost

I'm surprised you're not in a mental hospital. You sound like you belong in one.

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Bill - 10/4/2007 5:38:34 AM

+4 Boost

You're an architecture student? Oh boy, very funny! If you had any appreciation for design, you'd never go for an LF-A...

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Kinger - 10/4/2007 6:13:04 AM

+2 Boost

"i think the LF-A along with Aston DBS will be the 2 best looking cars in the world"

Seriously? Each to their own I guess...

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richardp996 - 10/4/2007 9:34:00 AM

+2 Boost

I am an industrial design student here. I would never go for the LF-A. The form on the car is not exactly cohesive.

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JRobUSC - 10/4/2007 10:22:30 AM

+3 Boost

keep in mind nicad has previously said he lives in Europe, where they don't even sell the IS350. And yet he test drove one with his brother to help his mother decide on a car. Did she pick the IS350? The car she can't buy there? The one you test drove where it isn't for sale?

Incidentally, I have driven the IS350 and the 335i. IS350 is a nice car, handles ok, good power. But it's not a 335i by any stretch.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 11:22:21 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"lol are you kidding? the LFA is stunning. i think the LF-A along with Aston DBS will be the 2 best looking cars in the world."

Take the "L" off the hood and put on a roundel instead-- to you it then becomes the ugliest sports car in existence.

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theonemikahel - 10/4/2007 3:21:36 PM

+1 Boost

Why is it that every LEXUS comment as negative boost and every name calling response get's +6 +7 or so ? The Lexus will have like the M3 numbers that are very close to what they will put up on the dyno. So any cars ( RS4,C63, M3 and IS-F) will by rockets by sedan standards(not sports car like the R8,911 or F430). I just hope that the front end of the IS-500 (coupe version of the IS-F) will have a more balance look with the rest of the car. Anyway ... I would take all of these cars anyday. Most of you would not even drive them close to there max performance as any race drive could (you know most of the test numbers you all put come from).

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komododave - 10/5/2007 1:01:15 AM

+1 Boost

Architecture school, ha. That just means you can draw pretty pictures but couldn't cut it in real engineering.

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:47:04 AM

0 Boost

if the 335 is so good, why get the M3?

thats the point lexus is trying to make. Lexus has never said that the IS350 was the best performing car ever. thats why they are going to make the IS-F to be better, and to set a new benchmark for lexus. if the IS350 performed the way europeans think it should, there would be no point in shelling out 20K more for a bigger engine in the IS-F

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/4/2007 3:47:44 AM

-4 Boost

comment above is mean to be a reply to heartandsoul2662

AUTO_UNION - 10/4/2007 4:02:00 AM

+2 Boost

That's a lot of torque!!!!! But I hoped it would have 10-20HP more.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 11:23:56 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

All the car magazines that have tested it?

It's not a bad chassis, per se, but it can't stand up to the 3 Series in terms of the perfect comfort/performance balance.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 12:55:47 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Really? Find me a comparison test where they explicitly claim that the IS350 X has a better suspension and ride/handling balance than the 335i.

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Kinger - 10/4/2007 4:42:34 AM

+2 Boost

Finally some numbers, it certainly has enough power to compete anyhow. No doubt it will also handle well, whether it handles up to M3 and RS4 standards remains to be seen.

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ashramboy - 10/4/2007 4:56:23 AM

+2 Boost

i tell you, some of you guys really have too much pride about toyotas. its rebadged corolla with toyota crown's v8 thrown in there. japanese people are smart and this is why. japanense sure knows how to brain wash dumb people into thinking its something else. go to japan, good thing the m3s sell for over $100k, tariff tax charged to make it cost twice the price of the isf. if they were selling for the same price, toyota isf will not sell. there is reason why toyota/lexus brand dont sell in japan. nicad you are one of those brain washed.

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izfuney - 10/4/2007 3:38:19 PM

0 Boost

Wow Ashram Boy ... what the hell are they feeding u in the Ashram ?
You diss the v8 in the crown becaue it has Toyota as a brand ? Sure in japan they will celebrate what is in short supply (aka M3 ) and is taxed the most as it celebrates conspicuous living .
The story is different here in the states.. BMW's are dime a dozen and a lot of people see beyond the marketing hype .... aka BMW sedans are overweight pigs.. that while having good road feel are about as far from sports cars as the earth is from the moon.

Mind you i am no fan of Lexus either... They are simply replicating what BMW does without marking out their own USP ....

Czelinski - 10/4/2007 5:07:13 AM

+3 Boost

"417 horses and ULEV II? you can drive the IS-F thru London."

No one in London would want to be seen driving an IS-F through London. 99% would be willing to pay more just so they can drive the M3, speaking of which, I saw one parked up on my way home last night. Looks beautiful :)

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/4/2007 11:25:38 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost