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Anyone Can Duplicate. Who Truly Innovates In The Auto Industry And Does It Matter?

Agent00J submitted on 06/20/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:34 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[88] user comments | category: Misc News

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Anyone Can Duplicate. Who Truly Innovates In The Auto Industry And Does It Matter?

Every product has an innovator, the one who brings to market that one item or items that everyone wants. The one item that competitors thump themselves on the head mumbling to themselves, “Why didn’t we think of that.”

We all know the products; Apple Computer in recent years has stood the music industry on its head with the iPod and complimentary iTunes Music Store. Many have tried to copy the iPod including Microsoft, but Apple owns that market with market share in excess of 50%.

Once upon a time a little company out of Michigan called General Motors owned 50% of the automotive market here in the USA, but others took notice and started to do things better, differently, and innovatively. Today GM is struggling to maintain a minor lead over Toyota, as the Japanese car giant continues to gain market share. There are cracks in that machine however as quality has slid, and Consumer Reports is slower to recommend Toyota products than they have been in the recent past.

AutoSpies.com is unique in the attention that is given to automotive news. The members, who post, discuss and sometimes fight to preserve or enforce an opinion serve as a testament to the passion with which people love their automobiles. In observing some of the threads that trickle through here I am amazed and impressed by the fact that we have people defending everything ranging from Hyundai to Ferrari.

While the vast majority it seems stick to the BMW, Audi, Lexus or Infiniti camps, the truth is not all of these manufacturers are innovators all the time. If you are really honest with yourself, you have to agree not every product brought to market is innovative, in most cases it is simply an interpretation of another brands product.

You don’t need to take my word for it, lets look at a few examples:

BMW M3 defined a segment of the market that didn’t previously exist. Mercedes-Benz and now Lexus have products that fit the bill. As good a product as either the C63 or IS-f is, the fact is neither Lexus nor Mercedes created the segment.

Mercedes-Benz CLS defined a segment of the market that didn’t exist previously. We have seen numerous sketches and artist renditions along with a prototype or two of cars by both BMW and Audi that seek to compete in the same segment as the CLS. Volkswagen sees an opportunity as well and is actually the first to market with the Passat CC, although not a direct competitor to the CLS, it certainly fills the bill in terms of segment as defined by the CLS.

Acura brought the Legend to market when no other Japanese brand had a direct competitor to the cars of Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Lexus and Infiniti were several years behind, but Lexus went the extra step to really define what a luxury car was and put on notice both MB and BMW that they were a force to be reckoned with. Sadly Acura, which helped create the segment, has fallen way out of contention in terms of competing with the big sedans from Germany, but Lexus is always invited to the arena when a big luxury sedan test is brewing. The impressive thing about Lexus is how it now owns the Japanese luxury segment forcing Infiniti almost to its knees. The exciting thing for car us car enthusiasts is the way Infiniti has really defined itself within the market segment originally created by Acura.

So what’s the point you may be asking? Well I thought it would be interesting since opinions are not at a shortage here at AutoSpies.com to have you name a car or two that you see as innovative, and then tell us why. Simply responding by saying Lexus is the best, or BMW is the best doesn’t tell us why you think they are innovative.

The BMW X6 is innovative, as it really doesn’t have a direct competitor; it really created a segment, or at least a sub-category on an existing segment. I know you are passionate about your cars, I am asking you to put your money where your mouth is and tell the rest of us why you think the brand you are so willing to go to the mat for is innovative.

Go ahead, enlighten us, and in the process don’t be surprised to learn something you didn’t already know.

Anyone Can Duplicate. Who Truly Innovates In The Auto Industry And Does It Matter?

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91z4me - 6/21/2008 12:18:55 AM

+2 Boost

The new Mini would be extremely innovative in the US market. While they have had cars this size in EU, Japan, and other markets for quite a while the US has been without of cars in this class pretty much indefinitely. Also the Mini brand went from nothing to being a known brand in no time! Add in the fact that despite its size it sells at much higher premiums than all other subcompacts shows how well the car (brand) is doing.

I would also include Dodge's Stow'n'Go seating to the list. From the company who brought the minivan to market comes the best seating system around.

Sync is also proving to be extremely innovative in that it is the BEST Nav system/multimedia system and it is selling in droves for Ford.

reply to this comment

utahnkid - 6/21/2008 12:50:24 AM

0 Boost

Can you clarify the reasoning behind those choices? Because from what I can tell you just chose 3 examples of what ISN'T innovative.

The Mini? Innovative?? It's not even the original rendition of the car. It's a re-make. Please explain how a re-make is innovative.

Dodge's stow'n'go? Are you kidding? You consider that innovation? That's called a slight improvement that probably won't make it to the next generation because a new buzz word storage/seating system will be out.

And how is Sync innovative? Who would actually buy a car because of the nav system? I'm pretty sure people put many more things ahead of that as far as importance goes when making the second largest investemnt next to their home.

Then again that's all just my opinion. I really am interested in hearing your side.

Hyundai - 6/21/2008 1:49:43 AM

+2 Boost

Investment? Are you sure that a typical car is an investment?

BostonBiosafety - 6/21/2008 8:57:32 AM

+2 Boost

Utah - Back off...it's just his opinion and he does not need to justify anything.

saudi_ali1982 - 6/21/2008 11:00:25 AM

-1 Boost

Well, the first thing that came to my mind when i read the article was the GMC suburban/yukon/tahoe...whatever you wanna to call it depending on whether its GMC or Chevrolet. im not saying i like it; its definately a gas guzzler and made with low quality in mind, but it was the first of its kind...a huge family SUV that fits all your friends, kids, dogs, cats and shopping bags together. The car is pretty common here in Saudi coz Gas is cheap and families are huge...

it wasnt till recently that ford came out with the expedition/excursion and all those ugly vehicles...

ofcourse other car manufacturers had to follow such as Nissan Armada and the toyota sequoia

silver1 - 6/21/2008 1:46:07 PM

-10 Boost

The World's 50 Most Innovative Companies

Over All Rankings

1 APPLE
2 GOOGLE
3 TOYOTA MOTOR
4 GENERAL ELECTRIC
5 MICROSOFT
6 TATA GROUP
7 NINTENDO
8 PROCTER & GAMBLE
9 SONY
10 NOKIA
11 AMAZON.COM
12 IBM
13 RESEARCH IN MOTION
14 BMW
15 HEWLETT-PACKARD
16 HONDA MOTOR
17 WALT DISNEY
18 GENERAL MOTORS
19 RELIANCE INDUSTRIES
20 BOEING
21 GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP
22 3M
23 WAL-MART STORES
24 TARGET
25 FACEBOOK
26 SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
27 AT&T
28 VIRGIN GROUP
29 AUDI
30 MCDONALD'S
31 DAIMLER
32 STARBUCKS
33 EBAY
34 VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS
35 CISCO SYSTEMS
36 ING GROEP
37 SINGAPORE AIRLINES
38 SIEMENS
39 COSTCO WHOLESALE
40 HSBC
41 BANK OF AMERICA
42 EXXON MOBIL
43 NEWS CORP.
44 BP
45 NIKE
46 DELL
47 VODAFONE GROUP
48 INTEL
49 SOUTHWEST AIRLINES
50 AMERICAN EXPRESS

kthor - 6/21/2008 2:11:06 PM

+6 Boost

Great list! Tata way above Boeing. Spare us.

enthusiastx11 - 6/21/2008 8:29:30 PM

+2 Boost

silver:

we're talking about innovative PRODUCTS here.

this is a list of innovative COMPANIES. factors driving this ranking include human resource management, process innovation, manufacturing innovation, etc. maybe you should read the article.

DoctorInfiniti - 6/22/2008 2:58:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Infiniti is a innovator in how to come back from the ashes of the Phoenix. Given up for dead, or at least bankrupt, in '86 Infiniti began a re0org/turn around which is mould-braking.
Infiniti also is an innovator in high-tech options/equipment that are truly useless. ie...LDW/LDP.
Next Infinit will introduce in their '09 lineup the newest useless feature,...DCA Distance Control Assistance,..which will basically be adaptive cruise control from a dead stop,...up to 120 MPH !! Go ahead and trust that why don't you???
I am not usually one to bash my own product, but those in the ivory tower are lost in thinking that they will compete in the performance realm at any significant manner.
They refuse to offer clean diesels or hybrid electric cars for North American consumption. Only will the offerings be available to Europe and beyond. I guess they think it'll take too much to certify it for the EPA !!!
No 1-series model coming, to the contrary of most reports of late. So we will see what we will see,...

Bonzai !!!

utahnkid - 6/21/2008 1:07:57 AM

0 Boost

I think where people are going to demand and receive a lot of innovation will be in the engines coming out from EVERY manufacturer. The numbers are there to show Americans in particular will completely shift their driving habits right down to what they actually drive with even just a 1-2 dollar shift in the change of gas prices. I think we're going to see a lot less V8's and a lot more turbo/super charged 4 and 6 cylinder engines. I doubt diesel will ever make a big splash (compared to Europe) in the US because people see it as an old technology and words like "hybrid" "electric" and "hydrogen" seem to attract a lot more attention. Whether or not they're actually better is up for debate but the amount of attention given to them is undeniable. Give it 3 years and I bet the premium engine choice in almost every car will be some kind of aspirated 4 or 6 cylinder. V8's will pretty much only exist in sports cars and trucks, and I bet you'll see a shift from the big Tahoe'sh SUV to the more practical Acadia type crossover for the majority of soccer moms.

I'd say the most innovative car on the road right now is the Prius. As much as I don't like the thing, you gotta give Toyota some credit for not just making a hybrid, but making a hugely successful, reliable, and well put executed hybrid. Why the other brands haven't made something to go right at that thing's throat is a mystery to me. If they (ANY manufacturer) could make even just a marginally better looking version it's guaranteed to fly off the lots like they're free.

reply to this comment

utahnkid - 6/21/2008 1:10:47 AM

0 Boost

And I know Honda beat them to the market with their Insight but that thing wasn't exactly a success. The Prius is the first SUCCESSFUL hybrid.

FitzLA - 6/21/2008 12:52:11 PM

+3 Boost

A car is not an investment, by the way. Unless you buy a classic and make money on it, it is not an investment.

Chip - 6/21/2008 2:33:07 AM

+8 Boost

I don't think you understand what Agent 00J is asking.

But since you mentioned BMW in all 4 of your comments, I take it that's your choice for the brand that innovates that most.

reply to this comment

FactsRule - 6/21/2008 9:59:41 AM

+7 Boost

What a dipstick you are "Staar"! You are obviously trying to start a long thread with BMW owners. It has been noted worldwide that BMW is one of the most innovative car manufacturers in the world by most every "intelligent" automotive critic and company.

Your obvious slurs against BMW shows you know little about cars.

reply to this comment

JRobUSC - 6/21/2008 10:08:20 AM

+8 Boost

let it go, Staar isn't a real person, it's someone trolling who just wants to stir up trouble and wants people to think it's Star posting.

reply to this comment

AROD550I - 6/21/2008 11:59:17 AM

+7 Boost

WHAT A MORON!

reply to this comment

kthor - 6/21/2008 2:14:06 PM

+9 Boost

Please ban staar.

reply to this comment

kut17 - 6/21/2008 1:52:58 AMView My AgentSpace

+12 Boost

If anyone is an innovator in the auto market, it would have to be Mercedes-Benz. Like them or not, Mercedes can trace it's roots back to the first car. Every single car came from Mercedes.

reply to this comment

kut17 - 6/21/2008 1:57:09 AMView My AgentSpace

+11 Boost

Not to mention Mercedes innovative inventions: crumple zones, safety tests, ABS, airbags, SmartKey, etc.

Willis - 6/21/2008 4:34:37 AM

+9 Boost

Agreed. Mercedes has a very strong history of innovation in various fields such as safety, motorsport, technology, alternative fuels and even simple aspects of automotive engineering such as ribbed rear taillights which stay cleaner longer etc. When you pick up a book about cars it will literally mention Mercedes on every page in terms of innovation. Literally.

utahnkid - 6/21/2008 7:29:04 AM

-7 Boost

Point taken, they HAVE innovated in the past, but where is all that innovation now? Why haven't they come up with an answer for a highly efficient car? (not counting diesel) Where is their hydrogen development? Hybrid development? I definitely agree that MB has shown us some amazing things in the past but I just don't see them as a modern day innovator.

abcd - 6/21/2008 9:37:01 AM

-9 Boost

Not agreed . Mercedes innovates quite a lot but peoples often magnify mercedes innovations like you kut17 : mercedes wasn`t first car with airbags , mercedes wasn`t first with safety tests (crash-tests) and many others things .

Bill - 6/21/2008 11:29:42 AM

+5 Boost

ABCD,

Mercedes WAS the first manufacturer to provide airbags across their entire lineup as an option and as standard on their higher models.

Mercedes WAS the first manufacturer to conduct crash testing (what the heck are you talking about?).

Mercedes WAS the first manufacturer to provide vehicles with ABS.

Sorry, ABCD, but Mercedes-Benz is a brand famed for their technical innovation as well as their visions about the future of the automobile. Please give credit where credit is due.

abcd - 6/21/2008 11:51:37 AM

-2 Boost

Bill I said that mercedes innovates a lot . They were first with modern ABS ( simpler mechanical ABS was earlier in Jensen FF ) and many other things . About AIRBAGS :
"In 1971, the Ford car company built an experimental airbag fleet. General Motors tested airbags on the 1973 model Chevrolet automobile that were only sold for government use. The 1973, Oldsmobile Toronado was the first car with a passenger air bag intended for sale to the public. General Motors later offered an option to the general public of driver side airbags in full-sized Oldsmobile's and Buick's in 1975 and 1976 respectively. Cadillacs were available with driver and passenger airbags options during those same years. Early airbags system had design issues resulting in fatalities caused solely by the airbags."

http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventions/a/air_bags.htm

Mercedes introduced Airbags in 1980 in S class . And Mercedes wasn`t first to conduct crash-testing . I`m know that they are famous for their technical innovations but they didn`t invent everything like you think .

Bill - 6/21/2008 1:42:51 PM

+2 Boost

ABCD,

Mercedes was the first car company to conduct crash-testing and various other safety tests including the use of dummies to test the potential effects of crashes on human beings. This is a well documented fact. So I don't understand your point in claiming that they didn't do this. You provide no back-up information as well.

Futhermore, Mercedes may not have invented airbags but they certainly were the first to realize the potential behind them by offering them as standard on higher-end models and as an option across the range in the 1980s. True, this isn't really innovation in the sense of technical innovation, but it is still an innovation in terms of making use of an invention that can safe lives. Get what I am saying?

Rupert - 6/21/2008 3:33:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

utahnkid:
'Point taken, they HAVE innovated in the past, but where is all that innovation now? Why haven't they come up with an answer for a highly efficient car?'

Diesotto? That's pretty damn innovative if you ask me.

abcd - 6/21/2008 5:57:29 PM

+1 Boost

Bill:

1934-GM conducts the first rollover and barrier impact tests
1977-Advanced Hybrid III dummy introduced (which is now the current industry standard)

http://www.gm.ca/inm/gmcanada/english/about/Safety/safety_history.html

http://www.aesvn.org/resources/new-car-safety.pdf

First ever crash test dummy was american Sierra Sam .
In the end of the 40`s mercedes build their first safety test vehicle .
Bill where is your well documented fact ?

Rupert , diesotto isn`t in production car , it`s probably in test phase .

kpaxx - 6/23/2008 9:25:35 AM

+1 Boost

yeah but Mercedes was the first to have crumple zones in production cars!

Chip - 6/21/2008 2:15:20 AM

+8 Boost

Ferrari, Mercedes Benz, Porsche & BMW represent the best of the innovators in my opinion. These brands have set the standard for automotive excellence in terms of engineering, design & technology. They've also been the most desired brands on the market since their introductions.

Sure, so and so can do this better, or so and so invented this, but when it comes down to the "standard"..... its one of the 4 above.

reply to this comment

mpls - 6/21/2008 4:52:26 AM

-6 Boost

Where did Porsche go to learn about innovative manufaturing standards, procedures and processes that helped save them in the 90s ??

BTW BMW does not belong in that group !!

reply to this comment

abcd - 6/21/2008 11:35:28 AM

-4 Boost

And who developed ceramic brake disks for porsche - first in production car . Answer is mitsubishi chemical :
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/18/automobiles/18BRAKES.html

silver1 - 6/21/2008 5:35:56 AM

Show Comment -19 Boost

utahnkid - 6/21/2008 7:30:23 AM

+4 Boost

Sorry, but all that credit goes to TOYOTA. Not Lexus. The brand "Lexus" only exists to meet out dated trade policies.

91z4me - 6/21/2008 9:34:55 AM

+4 Boost

I gotta take issue on a few of these points. The 8 speed auto isn't innovative. It is just another gear added to a standard planetary transmission, that is not innovative. Audi's CVT would be more innovative than this (especially if they would have continued development to higher power levels).

1st V8 hybrid, it may have been a better V8 hybrid system but I think the GM hybrid Silverado beat it to the market by a few months.

As for World car of the year and the other magazine awards, they are awards given out each year decided by a bunch of writers. They aren't innovations at all.

If you are trying to make the case for Lexus why not mention the 'self parking' feature on the LS?

Agent00J - 6/21/2008 10:19:40 AMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

I am not arguing the points you make, except to note that while Lexus is a great brand, I would question whether or not it is innovative.

The original SC400 Coupe was innovative as production techniques did not exist prior to it to make the fenders with the curves it had.

The LS is a great car that has used the S-Class as its benchmark, but it is not innovative.

Cite particular examples of innovation with Lexus, not awards Lexus has won.

-00J

silver1 - 6/21/2008 1:44:54 PM

-12 Boost

Hate all you want....The truth hurts

Lexus is like Apple I-Phone.....

World's Most Innovative Companies 2008

Autos

1 Toyota Motor Corporation

2 General Motors

3 Tata Group

4 BMW

5 Honda Motor

6 Ford Motor

7 Audi

8 Daimler

9 Nissan Motor

10 Hyundai Motor

enthusiastx11 - 6/21/2008 8:46:00 PM

+4 Boost

again silver:

we're talking about innovative PRODUCTS here.

this is a list of innovative COMPANIES. factors driving this ranking include human resource management, process innovation, manufacturing innovation, etc. maybe you should read the article.

damikco - 6/22/2008 4:00:52 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

This is one of the better topics, becuse it shows the real car guys from the guys just reading consumer reports and throughing the famous buzz words like how "refined" thier brand is.

silver1 - 6/22/2008 7:38:07 PM

-1 Boost

"enthusiastx11"

How in the Hell do you think Toyota Motor made the list? So I guess the company is innovative but the products what makes the company is not????
How much dumber can you get?

Agent009 - 6/23/2008 2:38:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Silver1- I'll give you the kudo that Toyota is innovative.

However their innovation is primarily innovative in the manufacturing process, not the product.

Lets say you make beer cans. Which is more inovative over time?

1. A tin can that requires a can opener?
2. The aluminum pop top that does away with opener and is recyclable?

In 00J's case A true innovator will go with option two.

In Toyota's case they will tend to stay with option one, HOWEVER they will define a process to manufacture them for 1/2 as much and twice as fast.

They will have tremendous profits because of this.

Only when a process can be created to make the pop top less expensive, to produce and hence more profitable, will they convert to the pop top.

Agent63 - 6/21/2008 6:06:02 AMView My AgentSpace

+9 Boost

Oh come on please don't put BMW down like that. BMW copying Toyota, Nissan etc? come on Staar. You obviously don't know the European market.

Don't forget Lexus were econo-boxes too. Rebadged SC400, LS, GS, IS and the LX? Don't even start with the whole thing about companies copying the Japanese automakers because that's complete utter bs.

Mercedes have been known to be innovative. If you were a true car fan you would know what I'm talking about.

Silver1: Lexus is coming out with some great products but their not as innovative as you think they are. They weren't the first to have a Hybrid car produced in mass scale so that Lexus credit goes out the window.

It's also funny how you say their #1 but their only #1 in the United States. Their are different markets on this globe that are just as important. Lexus were rebadged Toyota's and if you're too dumb to realize that and admit to it then you're hiding behind the truth.

The Germans paved the way of for the Japs to leach off them. In other words they gave them a goal to reach and its easier for Japanese to take something and make it better than to come up with the idea in the first place.

reply to this comment

85bmw745i - 6/21/2008 6:47:01 AMView My AgentSpace

+9 Boost

Very well put!

utahnkid - 6/21/2008 7:33:09 AM

-4 Boost

"The Germans paved the way of for the Japs to leach off them. In other words they gave them a goal to reach and its easier for Japanese to take something and make it better than to come up with the idea in the first place."

Besides the hint of racism, that just isn't correct. The "japs" didn't have ANY of the experience or past mistakes to learn from like the European brands. Yeah it might appear easier to already have a target in mind but not having the experiece from making the target in the first place doesn't exactly help. I'd say it pretty much levels the playing field.

abcd - 6/21/2008 11:24:55 AM

-2 Boost

Agent63 new bmw x6 uses torque vectoring awd system ( they call it DPC ) that was invented by honda ( SH-AWD ) and applicated first in honda legend in 2004 ( mitsubishi was using simpler torque vectoring system -AYC , even earlier in lancer evolution - 1997 ) . X6 is even using similar to honda legend ( acura rl ) bar-graph display that shows which wheel is getting torque vectored to it.
bmw x6 : http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2007/112_0711_bmw_x6_preview_drive/photo_06.html
honda legend :
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-pictures.aspx?RT=889

Also new bmw 7 series was rumored to has a rear wheel steering introduced first in honda prelude in 80`s . Honda was the first car with navigation system in 1981 :
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1981navigationsystem/text/01.html

New bmw 7 series is also rumored to has night vision with AUTOMATIC HUMAN DETECTION introduced first in honda legend in 2004 :
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/IntelligentNightVision/200408/

And new bmw 7 series is rumored to has 8-speed auto transmission that was first in lexus - but this of course isn`t great innovation becouse automatic gearboxes are using the same mechanism ( torque converter , planetary gears etc ) for about 50 years . Today BMW petrol engines are using direct injection system pioneered by mitsubishi GDI . Some natrally aspirated BMW petrol engines have more than 100hp per liter but this was first done by honda with their VTEC . BMW is using start/stop engine technology in some their engines that prius has been using for years . BMW is using pure electric assisted power steering ( without any hydraulic - it is part of their efficient dynamics ) and electric power steering was first used in honda nsx ( I`m not saying about electro-hydraulic power steering but pure electric ) .

abcd - 6/21/2008 11:30:14 AM

-6 Boost

So Agent63 you see that bmw uses a lot of things that was earlier in japanese cars .

bmwdrvr - 6/21/2008 12:50:47 PM

+3 Boost

WOW!!! how wrong......BMW doesnt need to copy anyone.....oh and while we are mentioning Innovations you may want to check the facts on Night Vision Cadillac did that first in the Cadillac Deville....which actually just one of the innovations of Cadillac including magnetic ride control(sound familiar Audi fans) GMs Onstar was first of a whole slew of telematics copy cats from other brands also Stabilitrak, and a few other first for Cadillacs just mentioned them I assumed no one would mention them as innovative but they are.....but otherwise I would say BMW, Mercedes Benz, Honda, Ferrari, Lotus as the most innovative

Agent63 - 6/21/2008 9:09:50 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Sadly, Toyota doesn't have one so called econobox to compete with the "1 series econobox" in handling and performance. I feel sad that Toyota isn't able to make a great coupe and came out with the dud of a luxury gt car called the SC430. It's garbage and we all know it. I hope the next one is better.

silver1 - 6/22/2008 7:41:29 PM

0 Boost

Okay. Toyota last longer than Mercedes and BMW out together and also Toyota cars has better quality Per JD Power and Consumer Reports.

Smart car is a rebadge Mercedes
Mini Cooper is a rebadge BMW

91z4me - 6/22/2008 8:27:11 PM

+2 Boost

Silver,

How could you be so stupid as to say:
"Smart car is a rebadge Mercedes
Mini Cooper is a rebadge BMW" ?

Show me the Mercedes that shares a platform w/ the Smart car. Then show me a BMW that shares a platform w/ the Cooper.

silver1 - 6/23/2008 3:23:29 AM

0 Boost

Go to the Mercedes dealership and ask them guys how many parts are what percentage of parts the Smart shares with the Mercedes and same with the Mini Cooper and BMW. I mean it's pretty much common sense but you fail to admit it, the same mechanics that the Mercedes dealership that fix on the AMGs S63 are the same ones who fix that little cheap $13,000 Smart. It's not rocket science to know that the Smart is within the same complex and building of the Mercedes, But at least BMW was smart enough to sit there badge Mini Cooper in a separate building next to BMW.

BMW/Mini Cooper share the same parts
SMart/Mercedes does the same
Scion and Toyota does the same

If you fail to admit this and deny it then God be with u...

Agent63 - 6/23/2008 4:22:42 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Silver's just another fanboy. Leave him alone.

Star - 6/21/2008 10:10:44 AM

+5 Boost

Lexus diesels are considered garbage and their hybrids useless(since they are in fact gas guzzlers). Japanese copied before and they are doing the same thing today when it comes to cars. Japan does many things right but they don't know how to build cars. All they do is trying to imitate(without success)the Germans. Just facts Mikey.

reply to this comment

Bill - 6/21/2008 11:31:17 AM

+5 Boost

Mr. Michael Taylor,

I suggest you lay off the crack or whatever else you're smoking. Your whole post is full of lies and you sound either like an idiot, a Lexus fanboy or a troll.

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nsmatt - 6/21/2008 2:56:20 PM

+2 Boost

1986-Mercedes-Benz is first car company to introduce traction control in the European car market.

1980-Mercedes-benz is the first car company to introduce airbags to the European car market.

2003-Mercedes-Benz introduces world's first 7-speed automatic transmission.

Not to mention abs braking, stability control, brake assist, and the M156 V8.

-__-

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ym73 - 6/21/2008 10:21:29 AM

+4 Boost

Ford was an innovator when they started out. Used an assembly line to make cars affordable to everyone. However, I can't think of any innovation from them since then.

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2ndbimmer - 6/21/2008 10:50:00 AM

+2 Boost

As for the LS self parking. BMW had that on their previous bodystyle wagons. That bodystyle edned in 2003, so in 2007 the self parking came out. do the math. (youtube it if you dont believe me)

I think whoever put bluetooth in the cars is very innovative. adapting to change before it becomes mandatory is amazing.
unfortunately, whoever innovates first, doesnt always get credit. it all depends who markets the best.

reply to this comment

saudi_ali1982 - 6/21/2008 11:07:09 AM

-2 Boost

damikco - 6/22/2008 9:00:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

American trucks are some of the most dependable vehicals on the road today and are made with high quality and comfort in mind they are one of the reasons in the mid 90's they out sold cars.

EL34 - 6/21/2008 11:20:17 AM

+4 Boost

Most car companies come up with innovative technology.

For instance, Lexus came out with self-parking.

Of course nobody uses it, but their engineers thought it was a swell idea.

:-/

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Agent00J - 6/21/2008 11:26:10 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

EL34, the point of this article is the fact that most car companies DO NOT come up with innovative technology. There are a few who innovate, and the rest who duplicate. Lexus was not the first to come out with self-parking as already addressed here, however they duplicated the technology, perhaps even improved the technology. Improving on an innovation does not make you innovative.

-00J

BJS470 - 6/21/2008 12:21:31 PM

-2 Boost

oh here we go....

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_43LE - 6/21/2008 1:08:44 PM

+3 Boost

I think that there are several types of innovation: Product innovation, organizational innovation, marketing innovation, research innovation, manufacturing innovation. There are some comapanies that excel at some of these and others that excel at other aspects. For example, MB is well known as a product and research innovator while Toyota is more known for organizational and manufacturing innovation. All companies learn from each other.

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auto001 - 6/21/2008 1:36:19 PM

-9 Boost

BMW: #1 in marketing innovation with speciality in getting people to buy inferior products.

Bill - 6/21/2008 1:43:12 PM

+1 Boost

43LE nailed it. Good post.

damikco - 6/21/2008 5:59:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Very innovating when you string your temps along for years and then not hiring them all the while when they are making chump change.

TurboSpyder - 6/21/2008 2:27:02 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Mercedes-Benz is by far the most innovative car company. They invented the automobile in 1886, they dominated Grand Prix racing with leading-edge technology in the 1930’s and again in the 1950’s, they had mechanical, direct fuel injection on production cars in the 1950’s, they were among the very first (VW was first) to use Bosch’s new computer controlled fuel injection in the 1960’s and then Bosch’s closed-loop fuel injection in 1976, they brought computer-controlled anti-lock braking to the market in the 1970’s and computer-controlled traction control in the 1980’s and then electronic stability control which NHTSA officials called “the greatest lifesaver since the introduction of the seat belt” - http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070228/FREE/70226004/1528 , in the 1990’s.

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damikco - 6/21/2008 2:30:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

innovating autos...... not in any particular order.

chevy silverados third door for back passengers later to be made into a fourth door around 1995.

Gm eve1 one of the first attempts at an electric car. around 1995

Toyoto priusone of the first green cars.

Gmc sierra four wheel steering or quadra steer.

gm "heads up display" in pontiacs and buicks

cadillac night vision in 2000 dts.
cadillac invented the first electric car starter in 1876.

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damikco - 6/21/2008 2:33:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

not to mention the modle t

UFMBA - 6/21/2008 5:37:17 PM

+5 Boost

Silver,
Their is a reason why you have to continue to justify LEXUS as being a great car company. Some of us buy cars just because we like them, NOT because they are the best. I do whatever I please with my money and certainly I am not going to listen to some loser whose probable first luxury car purchase is a LEXUS. By the way, I don't even think you realyy own one at all since it looks like all you do is spend your time posting ridiculous messages in this site.

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silver1 - 6/22/2008 7:44:48 PM

-1 Boost

I post facts. Thats it. The Truth hurts dosen't it?

Thanks for mentioning that Lexus is the best. And thats why some people settle for nothing less or garbage. Some people only want the best.

damikco - 6/21/2008 6:03:48 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Gm and ford were one of the first makers to use air bags.

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enthusiastx11 - 6/21/2008 8:47:53 PM

-1 Boost

WRONG. patented by mercedes in 1971.

nsmatt - 6/21/2008 9:17:34 PM

+2 Boost

Enthusiastx11: He said ONE OF the first.