Are The Detroit 3 Just Victims Of A Bad Reputation?

A reputation they created.

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 1:21:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Quite right. The big 3 for many years made lousy cars. They don't make lousy cars now but they dug a big hole for themselves. It takes a car enthousiast or and educated consumer to realise that the big 3 do make a decent product today.

— mini22 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 1:25:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

I will never forget the crap they sold us ( big3) in the 80's and 90's!!

— hk4site (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 1:31:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I think the reason why they are in trouble is because they have too many brands that overlap, they build cars that, with the exception of few, give you no emotion or excitement.

The cars use cheap materials, and even though they are built better than they were years ago, that stigma of cheap, poorly made cars has kind of stuck with them.

American cars face horrendous resale value, while the foreign companies are only a couple of thousands more, and hold their values much better.

0% Financing for 72 months has destroyed their opportunity to finance cars.

They built behomouth trucks when the economy was strong, and overproduced when the economy was weakening.

Lots of little mistakes and bad judgement calls, combined with poor executive decisions have lead to what we thought would never happen. Can they bounce back? Probably, but there will always be a scar left there. They need to clean up their act before there are no more pieces to pick up.

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 1:45:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

They created that reputation and now they have to try and convince us that they are different.

But you say that they donèt make junk anymore. Have you see Chrysler's lineup. Ford isn't much better either. Only GM has made significant changes.

— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 1:47:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

20 years ago all cars where not so hot no matter who made them. Fast foward to today and the quality is so tight that only a few defects per car seperate the top five brands ford and buick both having a higher quality than BMW this year was a big surpries.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=8807324

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 1:57:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

While the quality of Detroit's cars (not trucks/suvs) may be the equal of anyone's, especially Ford, there is a style issue. The huge investment in SUVs has starved the car lines of fresh, attractive designs, and that counts for a lot.

VW has pretty crummy quality , but they are attractive and fun to drive. Jaguar got along for years with beautiful cars that were usually seen on the hook of a tow truck.

Americans have loved Detroit's SUVs, many of which equal or exceed the designs done in Stuttgart or Hiroshima. I see no reason that the teams that created popular vehicles like the Escalade, Explorer, and Enclave can't make equally desirable sedans. As people notice, they'll go back to the showrooms.

They just have to get the smell of K-mart off.

— LauderdaleDriver (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 2:11:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1UAW : Very interesting.....That´s why I still buying Cadillac..and now they are a lot better..Linconl sadly bite the dust cause they are doing old fashion cars, fall short in design and performance.

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 2:14:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I agree with Adamsaf723...

Yes, the American car companies make far better products now compared with a decade or two ago, and many of these new American models outcompete their foreign competitors (e.g. Cadillac CTS), but how do you expect me to respect your company when you still have so many brands that you really shouldn't support?

GM= case-in-point:

GMC Acadia= Chevy Traverse, Saturn Outlook, Buick Enclave
Chevy Equinox= Saturn VUE, Pontiac Torrent
Chevy Trailblazer= GMC Envoy, Saab 9-4x
Chevy Silverado= GMC Sierra
Pontiac Solstice= Chevy Cobalt
Saturn Aura= Chevy Malibu
etc., etc.

How is this good business???

— Lexus1555 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 2:17:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Why can't the big 3 stay with one model for a long time? Why do they keep on bringing out different models every six years?


I know there are some exceptions (F-150,Wrangler,Malibu.etc.)

— AmazonPrinceIS350 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 3:22:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I think Ford will be OK, great cars are finally starting to trickle out from them. GM needs to cut back big time and realize the market will no longer support 4 brands of the same model re-badge. They have good cars but just need to realize we only need one great version of it. Chevy and Caddy is all they need. Chrysler is the worst off of the 3. They have so many other issues that are far beyond money problems. Most of their lineup (besides the Ram) are about 2 generations behind everyone else in every category.

— PlanB (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 4:25:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Absolutely.

Their bad reputation stems from arrogance and intelorance more so than the quality of their product.

Perhaps, one week perusing the comment boards on auto blogs will bring them a ton of insight.

— 100tnega (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 7:07:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I think when it comes to trucks and suv's, there is no one better in the industry than American vehicles, period. But there is a shift in consumer behavior which now favors economy/passenger cars and reject SUVs. This shift blindsided the B

— AudiA6Drvr (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 9:43:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

ig 3 and now have to adjust to the market. This will take time but i think once they put their mind/resources into it, they will make vehicles that can compete in today global market.

— AudiA6Drvr (View Profile)

Posted on 12/29/2008 9:44:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I have owned american cars and trucks ranging in years from '66 to '98. By far, the worst came from the 80's and 90's. I did my patriotic duty. The sales engineers always said quality was never better. None of them made it past 100K miles without an engine replaced, a transmission or multiple failures. In between I owned Hondas, each lasted between 180K miles and 250K miles and I beat the snot out of them in the process.

Have american cars really improved? I'm going to wait about 10 years to see. By then my toyota might need to be replaced and my hyundai warranty will run out.

— dodgedart (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2008 1:23:17 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

it's not the fault of detroit engineers and stylists, but of their Beancounter Culture.

all suppliers are selected solely on the basis of who comes in with the LOWEST BID. so the cars were essentially assemblages of the cheapest parts the companies could get. (other than parts/components built in house.)

hyundai also worked that way in the past. but when the old beancounter top mgmt was swept out, they were replaced by ENGINEERS. who demanded that decent parts were used.

all carmakers have to deal with internal beancounters. but top mgmt has to INSIST on minimum quality standards. and award contracts on THAT basis as well as low bids.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2008 5:47:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I agree that the beancounters kill the American car market. Look at the cars we treasure today and they come from the 50s, 60s, and early 70s. Some are worth close to a million or more and engineers with designers ran the process - not bean counters. The downsizing and rush to front drive cars gave us crap and we bought it. Twenty or so years of crap will dig a deep hole.

— sogac6 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2008 8:56:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Driving an import is like wearing an Italian Suit, it is "in style"

Who wants to be seen wearing a suit for a discounter like SYMS.

Quality and Value is meaningless. It is only the Hood Ornament that really counts these days.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2008 3:37:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

they have tried.

much of detroit stuff is simply NOT competitive outside the u.s.

too big for old world streets. too gas guzzling. too expensive in countries that tax by engine size.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 12/31/2008 5:30:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Tucker died because it was woefully undercapitalized, even if Mr Tucker was not an outright fraudster. Hollywood, like many Americans, has scorn for industry, and delights in attacking it.

Kaiser, with hundreds of millions more to invest, and real experience in mass production, could not compete with Ford and GM. Kaiser also thought Americans wanted to save gas with six-cylinder engines. That error alone was enough to sink his cars, which were otherwise excellent.

Nash died because it was making small fuel-efficient models, which Americans didn't want, especially in the days of 15 cents a gallon gasoline. There was no conspiracy. American Motors tried to match GM and Ford model for model in the late sixties, and the capital cost bankrupted them, and they would up sold to Renault (like Nissan, years later, and yes, your Infiniti is a ward of the French Government).

Americans have grown up with unprecedented wealth, and seem to think that we have an entitlement to this, and that it will never end.

Wishing for the destruction of a major industry will economically weaken all of us, and putting together kits from Asia will not compensate for the engineering, design, and finance jobs that will flee to Tokyo, Seoul, and Stuttgart.

Even if you live in Southern California and drive a Toyota, failure of this industry will, immediately and over time, have a very negative impact on your standard of living and the military and economic security of this nation.

— LauderdaleDriver (View Profile)

Posted on 12/31/2008 12:14:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

As recently as 2003, Studabaker tried to make a comeback with a SUV.

GM sued them and put them out of business for good.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 12/31/2008 1:09:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Well said, LauderdaleDriver.

Americans seem to no longer want to pursuit engineering excelence. We seek to find the lowest bidder, and we no longer want to pay for anything on our diminshed paychecks.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 12/31/2008 1:15:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1