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Are These New Diesels Here To Stay? Or Just Another Flash In The Pan?

Agent009 submitted on 10/13/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:13 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[30] user comments | category: Misc News

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Are These New Diesels Here To Stay? Or Just Another Flash In The Pan?

When you think of diesel cars in you might recall the horrid attempts at a diesel vehicle that plagued us in the 80’s. But things have changed quite a bit as far as diesels go and all of the change is for the better. Chances are you pulled up next to a modern diesel and never knew it. They have become so quiet and smoke free, that if wasn’t a badge on the car telling you what it was you probably never knew it was an oil burner.

But are we getting the real deal on this side of the Atlantic or just a watered down version?

Well 001 will soon be able to give you the lowdown on what at least Audi’s will be like. 001 is currently on a trek across the US Enroute from Denver to, Durango, then Sedona, Las Vegas, Mammoth Lakes, Monterey, and to the Santa Monica finish line.

Check back a bit later today and you will get to learn first hand what all of the excitement is about with these quick quiet and efficient cars.

Is diesel here to stay this time?

Are These New Diesels Here To Stay? Or Just Another Flash In The Pan?

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budfrogS4 - 10/13/2008 3:39:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

There has been a pretty large effort from many directions that I think will contribute to the success of diesels having a sustainable impact on the US market.
- There has been significant expansions and technology upgrades in the refining industry in order to accommodate an increase in ULSD demand.
- There will be a shift in where our oil will be coming from in the next decade or so: Canadian tar sands. Huge projects are under way to extract, pipe and refine this heavier oil that will support higher diesel output.
- Car manufacturers from a broad spectrum are developing Clean Diesel technology, including Mazda, Ford, Audi, MB, BMW, Honda.
- If Obama gets elected, then biodiesel will also get great support from the government. I also believe that McCain would back biodiesel if he ends up being elected - he hasn't yet simply b/c Obama supports it.

Of course, I was born right at the end of the last diesel downturn so I don't know everything that caused it to fail. But if it's simply public perception, I believe diesel will prevail this go around.

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IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2008 10:32:45 PM

+1 Boost

nobama

1995e34 - 10/13/2008 3:50:46 PM

0 Boost

why is there a picture of Joe Maddon with 2 chicks? its the alcs, and the devil rays might miss him.

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ucla95 - 10/13/2008 4:18:30 PM

+2 Boost

that dude is pulling way above his weight.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/13/2008 8:46:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

That's 001.

IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2008 10:31:08 PM

+1 Boost

001 lost some weight
good job

ucla95 - 10/13/2008 4:17:51 PM

+3 Boost

There are some major refineries opening in India (Jamnakar) and China which should relieve the ULSD shortages around the world. I think diesel is here for a while, but electric is the vehicle of 2025 and beyond imho.

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TheSailor - 10/13/2008 5:40:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

For the first time ever, I might be agreeing with someone about this whole battery powered car thing... Advances in technology, mainly the LiTi batteries means that fast charging (which always going to be the obvious problem with battery cars) will be possible... So instead of a two hour charge to fully charge up your car, you could be looking at a more tolerable 10-15 minute charge... If you can find a charger with sufficient capacity! I'm still skeptical, but it does seem closer to becoming a viable option... my bet is still with the ICE for the next 15 years... After that - Well... I'd still go with the fuel cell, but who knows... maybe the next Nicolaus Otto is just sitting there with his idea which will turn the world around in the same way the ICE did...

1995e34 - 10/13/2008 6:00:48 PM

+2 Boost

actually sailor, my big idea is a combustion engine that runs off peanut oil being initiated through compression.

TheSailor - 10/13/2008 6:08:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ohh... I heard of you... Your real name is Rudolph Peanut, right?

TheSailor - 10/13/2008 5:22:49 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

The paradox of this whole thing is that the economic downturn which is supposed to make these fuel efficient cars a bigger market share could very well turn out to be their downfall! Firstly because diesel cars are more expensive to buy and secondly because the downturn is affecting the inflated oil prices... gasoline haven't been cheaper here in europe for almost two years than right now.

But the goal here shouldn't be to get more diesel cars on the road, the goal should be to get less fuel out of the gas stations in the first place. And as of right now, this means driving a diesel... And with the recent advances in diesel hybrids, diesels will probably be the most fuel efficient cars for some time to come. And lets not forget the fact that diesel is an easier fuel to substitute than gasoline. Companies are now producing eco-friendly biodiesel from everything from rapeseeds, over seaweed to organic household wastes... ethanol (which you can't buurn without fossil gasoline mixed in yet) could, in the long run be a better alternative than bio-diesel, given it's cleaner burn, but we have yet to demonstrate large scale viable production methods which doesn't involve using potential food sources... But when we get to a point where algae or wood based ethanol can be produced efficiently and in an economically viable way, diesel is out for good.

And please don't start about fuel cells... I am writing a master project on fuel cells for large scale applications, and even in those applications where size and weight isn't a problem, the massive cooling systems, the hydrogen storage, problems with contaminations and not least fuel cell hydration (or lack thereof) means that we are looking at 15-20 years before the technology is mature... And yes, I am aware of the FCX, but I'd like to know what Honda actually threw after each of those "production" models (I bet the production costs of the Veyron are just pennies compared to those)...

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tango - 10/13/2008 5:27:51 PM

+1 Boost

I think diesel is the combustion fuel/engine of the future in one way or the other. The bad side of diesel efforts are the expensive emissions control devices (which hopefully will become less so the more are built) and the high price of the fuel. I think biodiesel is the way to go to solve this. If we stick to petrodiesel the technology will die as the fuel supply will become short (a barrel of oil can only produce so much diesel and no more) and hence more expensive. I can't wait for the Honda Accord i-CTDi to go on sale on this side of the Atlantic. I have a sneaky feeling that when Honda offers it, it will suddenly become a hit. A HUGE hit.

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ucla95 - 10/13/2008 5:54:20 PM

+2 Boost

I drove a new Jetta diesel last week (most dealers have demos now) and frankly the torque made it feel faster than the gasoline engine, was more fun to drive. Plus remember the gov't incentives on these makes the price premium more palatable.

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minhvunguyen - 10/13/2008 6:16:50 PM

+5 Boost

I find it interesting that there are still so many so-called auto enthusiasts still think of diesel as loud , poor performing, smelly technology. There have been steady incremental improvements in diesel technology over the last 25 years in Europe. I suppose our economic/political success here in the US have us thinking everything we do is right and Europe or Asia are not worth looking at or listened to (be it economic, social or political issue). Europe was similarly condescending towards hybrid technology from Japanese car companies but they've changed over the last 1-2 years. I would hope we do the same towards diesel technology and at a minimum, go test drive the new diesel cars from Europe before you pooh-pooh them. They really are quite wonderful and not constraint in any practical terms.

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1995e34 - 10/13/2008 8:20:42 PM

+1 Boost

perhaps they only notice the 18-wheeler diesels and that is their reference point.

TheSailor - 10/14/2008 10:09:30 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

LOL... when I thnik of american diesel engines, I either think of those 7 liter cummins diesels or the caterpiller 3512 we use for various generator purposes in ships... Not exactly prime examples of first class hightech engineering!

truthpursuit - 10/13/2008 6:42:47 PM

-3 Boost

Wouldn't be caught dead driving a diesel,they just don't sound right.

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budfrogS4 - 10/14/2008 12:26:00 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

400+ lbft of torque in a 3.0L engine. How does that sound?

truthpursuit - 10/13/2008 6:43:59 PM

0 Boost

Man that chick's got some long ass skinny legs.

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truthpursuit - 10/13/2008 6:44:46 PM

-3 Boost

That audi's so slow its about to get run over by that semi.

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huu76 - 10/14/2008 12:18:13 AM

-1 Boost

Where I live, gas is $0.999/L vs $1.185/L for diesel on top of diesel vehicles now costing more than even hybrids.

Diesels will be just a niche/fad vehicle to stick it to "the man" and a way for the Germans to get rid of excess supply from Europe.

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IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2008 10:54:38 PM

+1 Boost

here the price is 5 cents away per gallon

huu76 - 10/14/2008 12:21:54 AM

-1 Boost

bulfrog,
Biodiesel is innefficient, it just raises costs in other segments of the economy which will offset any fuel savings (i.e. higher livestock feed costs translates into higher meat prices etc).

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TheSailor - 10/14/2008 7:25:40 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

But the clever thing about biodiesel is that from many sources it is incredibly cheap to produce, it is renewable and it doesn't contain any sulphur (meaning less PM). Also, biodiesel is more viscous than petro-diesel meaning your engine will run even longer (diesels already clock up twice the mileage of a gasoline because of the better lubrication). And though biodiesel has a lower energy density than petro diesel, you are completely missing the point... The point is that, like ethanol, we are not dependent on the middle east, russia or Canada to produce biodiesel! And we are not producing new CO2. And unlike ethanol, biodiesel can be produced from almost anything organic... That means everything from dead animals and household waste to plastics and car tires... So we would actually take care of two problems at once! Less garbage and more fuel...

And if the fuel is cheap and doesn't increase CO2 output, then what is the problem with a slightly higher consumption (which is still way lower than a comparable gasoline)... Why are you so hellbend on fighting anything called diesel even when it makes no sence?!

And the fact that you say it will raise costs in other segments just goes to show that you haven't done your research (as usual) but just spews out whatever the telly throws at you! Those concerns are only valid for the current production methods for ethanol... Biodiesel doesn't need a clean homogeneous "fuel" source like simple sugars. It just needs something with HC in it... So people might be producing rapeseed-oil for cars, but the leftovers are still used for animal feed... Some studies actually show that biodiesel will be healthy for any country's economy as it would create more jobs, lower foreign expenses and take care of huge garbage recycling problems.

budfrogS4 - 10/14/2008 12:32:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

huu - inefficient compared to what? Magic fairy dust?

Thanks Sailor, I think you covered it.

RonOKLA - 10/14/2008 8:48:06 AM

+1 Boost

I applaud all the efforts of bringing fuel efficient and clean diesel vehicles to the US, but unfortunately the price of diesel fuel will keep many from considering diesel cars. Here in Oklahoma regular gasoline recently dropped and currently selling around $2.40, premium $2.60, and diesel around $3.50.

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chewy - 10/14/2008 1:21:10 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

well it's different in other places, so it all depends on where you live. Not everyone lives in Oklahoma.

here regular and diesel are both $3.69

budfrogS4 - 10/14/2008 2:30:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Whoa...regular and diesel are the same price? I haven't heard of that. Maybe premium and diesel. Here in St. Louis diesel has about a 30 cent margin over diesel.

IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2008 10:56:11 PM

+1 Boost

premium and diesel are about the same price. the forcast is to dip below premium for about a year or so

RonOKLA - 10/14/2008 2:32:22 PM

+1 Boost

I wish diesel fuel would come down much lower. This summer, when regular was $3.59 and premium $3.79, diesel was at least $4.19 or so, always staying at least 60 cents higher than regular.

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