Audi Worried BMW Getting Too Far Ahead of the Game?

— inspirion7:

| BMW X6, 5 Series GT and overlapping models are just
| jabbing at the wind to see what sails.

So why is Audi following BMW by releasing the Sportback concept (A6/A8 coupe)? If that's just BMW's jabbing at the wind, Audi should not copy them, should they?

Why is then Audi making the raised A4 and A6 allroad which overlap their portfolio even more than X6 does in case of the BMW?

Finally, why is Audi releasing their new Q1 micro SUV, following the X1 by BMW?

Audi diesels in the USA are a bad German joke. It takes 19.7 barrels of crude oil to run the VW Touareg 3.0 TDI over 15k miles [1]. The giant Cadillac Escalade Hybrid is more efficient at 17.1 barrels [2]. The Lexus RX450h hybrid requires 11.8 barrels of crude, not far from twice less [4].

And the Audi Q7 3.0 TDI with the very the same engine uses even more fuel.

PS. This crude oil barrels number comes from EPA 20 combined mpg for the VW Touareg TDI. This number proves to be very accurate, with real life mpg being 11,95 l/100km=19,68 mpg [3] (24 drivers over 430k miles as of today).


[1] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=26557
[2] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Cadillac&model=Escalade%20Hybrid%202WD&hiddenField=Findacar
[3] http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/50-Volkswagen/458-Touareg.html?fueltype=1&power_s=160&power_e=170
[4] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2010&make=Lexus&model=RX%20450h%20AWD&hiddenField=Findacar

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 6:11:28 AM | | Votes: -6   

— MrBratwurst

*Audi following BMW by releasing the Sportback concept?

First of all, it's Mercedes who first introduced this segment with their CLS. Other companies followed them:
Porsche Panamera (coming soon)
Aston Martin Rapide (coming soon)
Maserati Quattroporte (2004-present)
Lamborghini Estoque. (No official decision)
BMW with the CS Concept (NOT GOING INTO PRODUCTION).
Audi Sportback Concept (Upcoming Audi A7)
Get your facts straight.
The BMW X6 and 5 Series GT are pointless cars just to increase annual sales. I don't see Audi competing with that.

— Speedoholic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 7:37:23 AM | | Votes: 8   

Speedoholic, I fully agree, it was the Mercedes that introduced the coupe-alike four door saloon. And it was an excellent decision, in my opinion, turning the rather sedate cars into pure beauty queens.

5 GT is some sort of BMW response to this. It may have more liftback DNA but still complies with the luxury sedan-derived car with a curvy rear end.

X6 pointless? I don't think so. You have to take premium SUV buyers preference into accounts. They want their cars to be bigger and intimidating but also demand car-alike handling and sporty image at the same time. X6 offers these virtues.

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 7:46:45 AM | | Votes: -2   

— TheLanciaFan:

| Don't compare the Escalade, Touareg and that sissy RX to each other.

Escalade is a large SUV, RX and Touareg are midsize SUVs. Last two are perfectly comparable, the former has a size disadvantage yet is more fuel efficient than Touareg TDI.


| They're in different weight classes to begin with

There is no such thing as weight class. At least Society Of Automotive Engineers don't classify cars this way so your suggestion has zero relevance. By the way, Touareg is a diesel and that's why it's heavy. Diesels are heavy by design which is they significant disadvantage.


| and in totally different classes overall.

SAE disagrees with you. Your desperate attempts to excude the inefficient Touareg diesels are futile.


| The Escalade hybrid is a JOKE

It kills the Touareg TDI in terms of fuel efficiency and size.


| and the RX has an electric motor that helps keeps fuel economy
| up in urban environments

This enery has to come from somewhere and the only source is the fuel tank. Smart hybrids use it much more efficiently than obese diesels.


| The Touareg has not such thing

Yet is even more expensive, I mean overpriced.


| yet it is very efficient for its size, weight and power output.

Touareg TDI is much slower than the Lexus RX450h: 0-60 in 7.8 vs 6.4 in the RX450h (so I don't know about what power output are you talking about). It is also just as big as the RX (Touareg: 4754 mm, RX450h: 4770 mm). Yet Touareg is brutally less fuel efficient (almost twice).


| Stop your Lexus propaganda please.

I state facts backed by scientific institutions. It's hybrid and Lexus haters problem they cannot accept it. No one requires people to accept reality. Living in delusion is also an option.

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 12:00:49 PM | | Votes: 0   

Audi has so far, and I will say so far been successful in producing product that sells and sells well. Their slow and methodic pace is evident of how Audi thinks through product development. The A4 Allroad was a follow-up to the successful A6 Allroad and not an overlap. A3 Hatchback here is relatively new but what Audi should focus on is what it does best and stop trying to out do BMW. Yes they seem to be chasing BMW but at the same time, I don't see them making the same product saturation BMW is.

— inspirion7 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 12:16:54 PM | | Votes: 3   

Mr. Bratwurst - since you are big on facts please research for us the tow rating and off road abilities of the Touareg vs. the RX.

— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 3:51:42 PM | | Votes: 1   

— inspirion7 (View Profile)

| Audi has so far, and I will say so far been successful
| in producing product that sells and sells well.

And BMW wasn't?


| The A4 Allroad was a follow-up to the successful A6 Allroad
| and not an overlap.

Yeah, we have the Audi A4 Avant, a slightly taller A4 Avant called the Allroad and a slighty slightly taller A4 Avant called the Q5. No overlap at all.


— JustaCar:

| please research for us the tow rating

RX450h can tow 3500 lbs, or this trailer:
http://www.gillettesinterstaterv.com/gillettesinterstaterv/productphotos/DSCF0032.JPG

I think it fairly enough. Yes, the T-Reg can tow twice the weight but these cars are meant to be luxury limos replacement, not pick-up replacement. When did you last see a heavy trailer full of, say, manure, behind a premium car?


| and off road abilities of the Touareg vs. the RX.

"Audi reckons just two percent of off-roaders ever go off road. That means of the 6,000 Q5s Audi plans to sell next year, 600 will be petrol powered and just 12 will ever get out into the muddy stuff."

Source: http://www.imotormag.co.uk/carreviews/148845/audi_q5_20litre_petrol_review.html

Touareg off road capabilities are then just pure waste.

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 9:08:48 PM | | Votes: -2   

Yes inspirion7, Audi should stop worrying and should try to remember the story about the tortoise and the hare.

— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2009 9:44:06 AM | | Votes: 1   

The R-Class sells at a "decent" pace in Europe. If you want a luxurious, comfortable and solid family friendly vehicle for long-distance traveling it is hard to beat the R-Class. Mercedes has already adjusted sales expectations to that of a low volume vehicle. It sells in "decent" numbers in that case.

The reason the R-Class didn't do well here in the US is because it was marketed in the wrong way and Americans let their perceptions of "minivans" get into the way.

All in all the R-Class is a good car. I was considering one for my family as I am getting to that age where I am retiring and looking for something extremely comfortable for those planned cross county vacations.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 5:37:47 AM | | Votes: -1   

...and the simple fact is that most people only want to be in a hearse once.

— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 8:43:13 AM | | Votes: 8   

I don't think Edmunds would agree with you. They lived with it for 1 year:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/PastVehicles/2006Mercedes-BenzR500/

— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 3:22:50 PM | | Votes: 4   

Why do you think Audis are not reliable? Because the brake rotors cannot be resurfaced?
At least Audi brakes work well, unlike any Lexus (Toyota) product. And Audi frames don't rust to the point where the rear axle falls off the car.
Check the latest JD Power dependability study and you'll see that the difference between Audi and Lexus is 0.3 defects per vehicle - hardly anything to hang your hat on. The line about Audis not being reliable is getting old - time to retire it.

— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 3:46:39 PM | | Votes: 1   

— JustaCar:

| At least Audi brakes work well, unlike any Lexus (Toyota) product.

With the hand on my heart, the very first arbitrary result I checked:

60-0, in feet:
Lexus GS350: 114 [1]
Audi A6 4.2: 120 [2]

Your credibility has just reached zero.


| Why do you think Audis are not reliable?
| Check the latest JD Power dependability study and you'll
| see that the difference between Audi and Lexus is 0.3 defects per
| vehicle - hardly anything to hang your hat on.

Lexus had 126 defects per 100 cars. Audi had 159 defects. [3] That's 26% more.

If you consider this small, go lower your salary by 26%. We'll see whether this is still gonna be a "negligible" differece.

Audi reliability problems also prove to be extremely expensive to repair.

5-year total estimated REPAIR costs.

FLAGSHIPS:
Lexus LS430:.. $2,775[1]
Audi A8 4.2:.. $7,414 [2]
BMW 745i:..... $7,011 [3]
Mercedes S500: $7,011 [4]

Large premium cars:
Lexus GS430:.. $2,775 [5]
Audi A6 4.2:.. $6,892[6]
BMW 545i:..... $7,011 [7]
Mercedes E500: $7,011 [8]

Midsize premium cars:
Lexus IS350:...$2,506 [9]
BMW 330i:......$6,327 [10]
Audi A4 3.2....$5,006 [11]

Source: my comment under this article
http://autospies.com/news/What-To-Do-About-Lexus-How-Would-You-Turn-Them-Around-44959/

| The line about Audis not being reliable is getting old
| - time to retire it.

Data proved it more actual than ever.


[1] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=130686/pageId=145836
[2] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=116521/pageId=101302
[3] http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?id=2009043

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 8:43:27 PM | | Votes: -2   

Wow, so that is why Lexus is flying off the lots. Cost of ownership is definitely going to place a holt in Mercedes and BMW sales tomorrow.
Bottom line: Audi is on a pace to dominate segments in the premium car sector, period. BMW and Mercedes will continue to advance and add customers as it always have, and we don't know about Lexus, the premier Japan auto maker that is trying to find its way. Lexus, like Toyota is trying to force its way and when a company does that, they will experience blow-back.


Lexus Sales Report

April Year to Date
2009 2008 % CHG 2009 2008 % CHG
IS 2,913 5,420 -44.2 12,216 21,936 -43.4
ES 4,125 6,831 -37.3 16,445 27,430 -39.1
GS 516 1,708 -68.6 3,102 7,846 -59.8
SC 93 216 -68.6 403 1,076 -62.0
LS 830 2,115 -59.2 4,051 10,029 -59.0
Total Cars 8,477 16,290 -46.0 36,217 68,317 -46.2
RX 7,462 8,082 -4.1 32,614 36,690 -9.7
GX 668 1,394 -50.2 2,878 7,904 -63.0
LX 315 827 -60.4 1,477 3,547 -57.7
Total Trucks 8,445 10,303 -14.9 36,969 48,141 -22.0
Total Sales 16,922 26,593 -33.9 73,186 116,458 -36.2

The new RX 350 is doing its part for the bottom line—as the only Lexus built in North America, the press release breaks it down individually—the new SUV is up 1.6% over last year. That makes the RX 350 the first positive number since the LX 570 back in December 2008.

All other numbers are showing minor 3-5% improvements over last month, but it’s still a grim scene. One thing to look for in next month’s numbers is the debut of the IS-C. Can it repeat the 2010 RX success and bring IS sales closer to the black?


One last point—it looks like Lexus prices will be seeing a minor increase, with an average adjustment of 1.2%



BMW on track to outsell Lexus
06/03/2009


BMW’s year-to-date sales, for the first five months of the year, have exceeded rival Lexus‘ sales for the first time this decade, meaning the German automaker is on track to be the best-selling premium import brand in the United States. BMW’s sales are down 30.5 percent, but that’s still better than the 37.5 percent drop Lexus has seen.

BMW’s year-to-date sales were 76,819 vehicles at the end of last month, while Lexus sold 73,168 cars. BMW hasn’t been the top-selling premium brand in the U.S. since 1997. Lexus has held that title since 2000.
Fellow German Mercedes-Benz hasn’t seen as big of a drop in demand as Lexus, either. The German brand’s sales are down 29.9 percent to 69,933 so far this year.

— inspirion7 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 7:35:19 AM | | Votes: 0   

MrBratwurst - here you go again choosing random data to justify your opinion. Where did you get your barking comparison and why did you compare a V8 Audi to a V6 Lexus.? How about comparing braking performance for the LS and A8? How about citing a comparison test where brake fade is tested? Do a search since you are big into facts.

And your argument about reliability still does not hold water. A difference of 0.3 defects per car is exactly what it is - less than 1. If you use that to prove your opinion that Audis are not reliable then you are just proviong your bias. And please don't bring repair costs into the discussion, they are not an indication of a car's reliability. Yes german cars are more expensive to buy and service, and most people that appreciate them are obviously willing to pay the difference.

— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 7:43:15 AM | | Votes: 2   

Bratwurst:
2008 January Had a collision with GS350 {I was in A6 3.2} both cars 2008 models.
A6 had Slight dent and scratches and was driven away by Audi Tech, GS was wrecked, Chasis Bent, front Suspension Housing totally collapsed. Police Officer could not believe the difference in damages to both vehicles.

So look at stats all you want, i know from experience which vehicle i will always choose over the other.

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 7:52:34 AM | | Votes: 1   

BMW AND BRAKE ROTORS, (and Audi)

BMW has been working on lowering the cost of maintenance on the cars for decades (take a look a the maintenance schedule for a mid-eights BMW, dismal) The one thing the have not compromise on is the brake rotors. BMW believes the two biggest safety factors on a car are 1st the driver and 2nd the drivers ability to avoid and accident. Stopping the car is a primary component of this. Its true BMW uses thinner brake rotors for a very specific reason; brake fade. Thicker and “turnable rotors hold heat longer and dissipate heat slower the thin rotors (especially vented). This is important on descending steep grades and heavy stop and start traffic. So you can either save the save the customer a few bucks or save more than a few customer lives.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 12:40:12 PM | | Votes: 3   

Yes "Sector" I am ultimate badgewhore because I drive a naturally aspirated V10 4 door sedan called an M5 that Audi still has yet to bring to North America. I always find those brash statements to be from pissed off people that have spent their entire lives trying to convince people not to buy a BMW. I just encouraged my father in law to by an A5 when my instincts were to take him out in a 6 series... but Audi hit the spot with the A5.. so you go with what makes sense.

Maybe we can all be friends and agree on one thing - all these manufacturers are better then GM and Chrysler.

— uhn2000 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2009 3:52:54 PM | | Votes: 2   

Maybe we can all be friends and agree on one thing - all these manufacturers are better then GM and Chrysler.— uhn2000

And that is something to agree on? How about Audi and BMW make some fringin' great cars that auto enthusiast love and depends on your taste you are willing to pluck down half the cost of some homes to own?

— inspirion7 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 2:17:48 PM | | Votes: 2   

Wasn't Jack arrested in the end of "A Few Good Men".

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 4:34:08 PM | | Votes: 1   

Why do you guys that deboost me HATE the truth?

I have only one thing to say...


You want answers?

"I want answers, I want the truth."

"You can't handle the truth!"

"Son we live in a world with walls and those wall have to guarded by men with guns. Who's goin' do it, you? You Lieutenant Wineburg?

I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines.
You have that luxury, that luxury of not knowing what I know. Santiago's death while tragic, probably saved lives and my existence, while grotesque and uh-comprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places like at parties, you want me on that wall- you need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We uses these words as a back bone in a life defending something. You use them as a punch-line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man that rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then question the manner of which I provide it. I would just rather you said "thank you" and went on your way, other wise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a-post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
-The great Jack Nicholson

— inspirion7 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/13/2009 2:49:39 PM | | Votes: 0