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Autoweek's Review Of The New Lexus IS-F

Dave submitted on 10/31/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 4:15 PM
from: www.autoweek.com

[94] user comments | category: Spy Shots

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Autoweek's Review Of The New Lexus IS-F

These past weeks have been loaded with articles regarding Lexus's exciting new IS-F. The first few were positive, and some people submitted articles that supposedly gave the Lexus a negative review. We all know certain magazines are biased towards some brands(like Car And Driver towards BMW) while others are biased toward other brands. Then you read all these user comments of how Lexus is supposedly taking over the Germans, then the anti-Lexus people come out and say the Lexus can't ever compare with the Germans....etc...
These arguments are all missing the point. The point here is that this is the first time in history the Japanese have ever decided to build a car to compete in the super sport sedan segment. I recall a blockbuster article in the May 2003 issue of Car And Driver where they tested the BMW M3, Audi RS4, MB C55 AMG, BMW M5, Audi RS6, MB E55 AMG against their respective counterparts. After it was over, a reader wrote to them saying how exciting the article was, but he had one question: "Why are the Japanese letting the Germans go unchallenged in the super sport sedan segment? The Japanese certainly have the R & D to do it. The NSX proved that a decade ago." I myself wondered why as well.
Well, now in 2007, Lexus took the initiative and became the first Japanese company to enter the super sport sedan segment. Just as Nissan's new GT-R is totally new and not based on any previous Nissan Skyline, the new Lexus IS-F is not just an aftermarket performance 'add on' like the previous L-Tuned series(or a pumped up IS350) but was designed from the very begining to be a true Japanese super sport sedan. Lexus and us fans all knew Lexus had the finances and know how to produce such a car and a group of rogue Lexus engineers were finally given the green light. So, for now, with the Lexus IS-F in it's very first generation, it's not so much a matter of how bad it will be or how it could overtake the Germans. We should be excited that Lexus has put serious effort into entering the super sport sedan segement to compete with the Germans(what's Acura and Infiniti waiting for?). No one knows for sure just how the Lexus IS-F will sell. But if Lexus's debut in 1989 and current sales are any indication, no comments good or bad should affect it at all. Read Article

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Agent009 - 10/31/2007 4:38:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

I certainly believe the Japanese do have the expertise to take on the Germans.

But this is a very expensive segment to keep up with. Until now the Japanese typically wanted to develop in cycles and make superficial changes for four years and then release and another model. The perfect profit model, Shake, bake, sell and make tons of cash .

Works great for a Camry I guess.

But not if you compete against a M3 the hp and performance level rises almost every year, so you can easily become a has been..

Right now the IS-F is probably in the middle of a very competitive pack. Kudos for them to land so well on a first shot. But can they keep up? That will be the real question. Remember the Lexus execs shot down the IS-F concept, and it was produced in skunk works fashion under the radar and then presented again. Only then did it fly.

It has quite a few rough edges due to this, but all in all is a worthy competitor. But the real question is will the Lexus execs have the stomach to keep up with sacrificing record profits for a position in the market.

None of them were complaining when Toyota was number 4 or 5, but when you get to the top they all think differently.

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EnvyofyouRS5 - 10/31/2007 7:11:15 PM

0 Boost

Middle is being a little modest,the performance numbers are significantly lower than the rs4 and just barely behind the m3(which is the lowest of the super sedans), Lexus is too conformed with aftermarket parts and keeping that image, i believe. No doubt that they will not be able to keep up, and lose the "race-inspired" package altogether, but some serious engeneering, and f1 mentality needs to be present in order to best Audi, BMW, and the almighty AMG.

bulldogz - 11/1/2007 9:58:37 AM

+3 Boost

but Agent, once they put the engines in the HP rarely ever changes correct? I mean, the last M3 stayed at 333hp, I'm not sure if torque got bumped. And that car was around for almost 7 years.

528i - 10/31/2007 4:44:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Good job lexus. Its their first try, at lest give them credit for that.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/31/2007 5:12:02 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

And actually, it was the S4 in that March 2003 article--I remember it. The Audis won in both tests. The RS4 was not available yet.

"We all know certain magazines are biased towards some brands(like Car And Driver towards BMW) while others are biased toward other brands."

In fact, C/D wrote one of the most positive reviews of the IS-F.

I've read this test... but I see no point to your "contribution" to this article, Dave. Everybody knows everything you said--or at least, they should.

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audiS - 11/1/2007 2:03:51 PM

+1 Boost

dude. you talk about audi too much. you dont have to bring it up on every thread. just chill. people know audi is one of the best automakers out there. you give us a bad name.

Threepoint1415926 - 11/1/2007 3:19:58 PM

-1 Boost

I dont see what the problem is, he likes Audis and as such knows a lot about them. He corrected some information in the article. Hardly gives Audi fans a bad name.

enthusiastx11 - 10/31/2007 5:13:05 PM

-4 Boost

the chief engineer behind the IS-F has finally put an end to the IS-F vs. M3 comparison.

"The goal was not to make a BMW M3, Yaguchi said, though many people will see it as such.

“The M3 is fun for a really good driver, but if you’re not a really good driver, it’s not fun,” he said. “This is a car everyone can enjoy; with this car, your skill level doesn’t matter.”

so there you have it...really good drivers will buy the M3.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/31/2007 5:30:28 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I actually think the M3 and RS4 can make anyone an amazing driver...

enthusiastx11 - 10/31/2007 6:29:33 PM

-4 Boost

i do agree with you S4...i think the M3 and RS4 make people better drivers. i think the chief engineer was basically making a back-handed compliment toward the germans.

enthusiastx11 - 11/1/2007 1:00:26 PM

0 Boost

GS300:

no, you don't need to drive as a profession to be a really good driver.

most people can't handle a car on a skidpad, a high-speed track or a tight autocross. many of us (who are not professional drivers) can.

ThierryHenry14 - 11/1/2007 4:15:51 PM

+2 Boost

7 gears and 8 gears are different. they are two different things, apples and oranges.

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theoptimisticpessimist - 10/31/2007 5:43:20 PM

0 Boost

The goal was not to make a BMW M3, Yaguchi said, though many people will see it as such.

Yes they did.!

“The M3 is fun for a really good driver, but if you’re not a really good driver, it’s not fun,” he said. “This is a car everyone can enjoy; with this car, your skill level doesn’t matter.”

Yaguchi is either a completely inept driver or a dishonest weasel. I have yet to drive the new E90 M3. but I have driven EVERY other M3 E30-E46 and all have been a blast to drive, I ridden with a variety of different drive with different driving skill, in those M3 and all absolutely fallen in love with the car.

While I do find the IS-F a fine car, I wonder about it if one of their lead engineers makes such ludicrous statement.

What a ignorant sycophant.

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theoptimisticpessimist - 10/31/2007 5:51:47 PM

0 Boost

I would agree but Benz built the big engined AMG's to compete with the M

Audiphile - 10/31/2007 10:21:16 PM

0 Boost

Yaguchi-san isn't so much an ignorant sycophant as he is a proud papa indulging in wishful thinking about his latest progeny. When he said that the BMW M3 wasn't fun to drive for an unskilled driver, I think he was referring to the M3's tendency to swing its tail out if driven too fast into a turn. Such powerslides are fun, but can be frightening to an unskilled driver. However, that happens only when one turns off the stability control system in the M3. Leaving the stability control on is not as much fun, but safer for an unskilled driver.

However, Mr. Yaguchi apparently did not see or read the edmunds.com comparison of the Lexus IS-F with the Audi RS4. In that test the IS-F's tail swung out quite dramatically with the stability control turned off. So I don't see how the IS-F is any easier to drive than the M3.

Being an all-wheel drive car, the Audi RS4 is much less prone to the twitchy-tail behavior that rookie drivers find so disturbing, yet doesn't understeer excessively. (It hardly understeers at all.) That, combined with the surefootedness of AWD, makes the RS4 a better choice for the rookie driver. (Too bad it costs more than the M3 or IS-F.)

stash84 - 11/1/2007 2:22:59 PM

0 Boost

i think he mostly means the auto/manual transmission difference. that is one of the main reasons it appeals to people like me. im tired of driving manual, especially in traffic..and remember, its easy to miss a gear and lose a race. whether u believe the isf transmission is great or not, it never misses a gear. i havent lost a race yet, in my is350 (except a cobra lol) and alot of times, i win because i have an automatic (and prob trac control). so, i do understand what yaguchi-san said, or at least, thats what i interpret. i also chose my honda 1000rr over the other, faster bikes for the same reason...

autopro - 10/31/2007 6:07:36 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Guys I've been telling you what's going to happen.Lexus has been building brand new state-of-the-art dealerships accross the country.They are ready to release an onslaught of new models.In 2009 its going to start 40to 50% of their sales are not even at the dealerships yet.They didn't want their service to suffer with the increased sales.GET READY!!!ITS ON!!
LEXUS IS FROM THE BUYAH TRIBE (KICK ASS)

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EL34 - 10/31/2007 6:13:27 PM

+2 Boost

Right, that's the target drivers for Lexus.

The Buyah Tribe ;)

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/31/2007 6:29:18 PM

-3 Boost

Wow what an advantage since the competition is standing still.

enthusiastx11 - 10/31/2007 6:32:15 PM

0 Boost

wow auto!

please tell us about this onslaught of new models? which segments? how many cars?

autopro - 10/31/2007 6:38:11 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

IS spyder
New RX
stand alone hybrid
all new suv's
GS-f
LFA
LX570
ITS on brother you will be eating your words.

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Hyundai - 10/31/2007 7:35:34 PM

+4 Boost

Yes! What a wonderful world where an automaker has created a monopoly where the only cars you can choose are from one brand! I can hardly wait til the day where somebody chooses a car for me that I have to pay for! *heart flutters*

[/sarcasm]

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/31/2007 7:52:33 PM

0 Boost

Hyundai, ya kill me.

enthusiastx11 - 10/31/2007 8:50:44 PM

+1 Boost

so two of those are replacements for existing cars (RX and LX).

one of them is tiny volume of a few hundred at most (LFA).

and two more haven't been mentioned by lexus as being considered for production (IS spyder and GSF).

so remind me how this is going to result in 150,000 additional cars being sold in 2009...???

S4cabriofoxone - 11/2/2007 12:10:00 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

^And Toyota.

EL34 - 10/31/2007 8:14:01 PM

-2 Boost

I took a test drive in a new BMW X5 today and I can't wait for the X6 to come my way!!!

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Ingenieur - 10/31/2007 9:20:04 PM

+2 Boost

For the Japanese, the technical challenge of building high-performance high-end cars is the easy part. Overcoming biases is the greater challenge.

When it comes to science and engineering, the Japanese are certainly more than up to the task. (You can find more thorough and flawless engineering in a "lowly" Camry or Accord than in a lot of supercars costing 10X more.) Their biggest hurdle is the lack of cachet which makes it more difficult for them to gain acceptance in the markets where prestige and image count for more than just flawless engineering. With the introduction of the IS-F, GT-R, and the upcoming supercars from Lexus and Acura, the Japanese will slowly build that much needed image to better compete upmarket where the established European brands thrive.

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Will_ - 10/31/2007 10:40:34 PM

+2 Boost

Yes. The thing that the Japanese have to do is stick with these high-performance projects and keep them coming. The Japanese have built high-performance sports cars before, it's nothing new, but they abandoned all that and decided to put all their focus on the economy and family car segments. I think everyone can agree that it's exciting to finally see them put more sportier projects on their agendas after all these years.

Rupert - 11/1/2007 6:33:51 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

midengine are nobel prozes at all relevant to this discussion?

Ingenieur - 11/1/2007 9:29:05 AM

+2 Boost

Midengine,

That is your argument? Well then, if the US has the most Nobel prize recipients of any nation in the world, why does it lag behind the Germans in automotive engineering?

Ingenieur - 11/1/2007 9:36:01 AM

+2 Boost

Midengine,

So what is wrong with that statement? All it means is that they are competitive.

Ingenieur - 11/1/2007 1:42:51 PM

+1 Boost

Midengine,

I mentioned 2 challenges that the Japanese have to face. One is the technical and the other is building an image. Between the 2, the technical is the "easy part" and the image is the "greater challenge". So the engineering aspect is easier vis a vis the image aspect. Where does it say it's easy for the Japanese to produce high-performance high-end cars? You're interpretation of what I wrote really has more to do with your worldview than anything else.

Keep in mind that history is not over. There'll be cars from different national origins that will continually challenge and maybe even one day dethrone current benchmarks (be they German, Italian or what have you).

Bottomlime, my argument is, the Japanese are competitive to the Europeans in the automotive world. And please, do not interpret that to mean as "superior". "Competitive" is the operative word here.

Also, just like you to know that I like cars regardless of national origin. Admittedly, most of my favorites are of European origin (Porsche and Ferrari especially) but that doesn't mean I believe no one else from outside Europe will ever make great cars that challenge the European greats.

Ingenieur - 11/1/2007 3:59:34 PM

+1 Boost

Midengine,

In Europe, remember when Germany was just a collection of tribes and Rome was, well, Rome? The Germanic tribes were considered barbarians then. Today, Germany is a high-tech powerhouse while Italy is a mid-tech nation. Times change. And you also have to take into account the political/economic dimension. A good example is the Koreas. They have the same people, same culture but they have arrived at different destinations: one is stuck in the middle ages (North Korea) and the other is one of the most advanced nations on earth (South Korea).

Now why are we talking about geopolitics? Let's talk cars!

Ingenieur - 11/1/2007 10:17:12 PM

+1 Boost

Midengine,

You said, "...the only way I can see things changing significantly is if “populations” change." Now you attribute the difference in accomplishments between the Northern and Southern Europeans to the weather.

Also, was there a "populations change" when Germany split into West Germany and East Germany? Why did West Germany advance further technologically compared to East Germany?

S4cabriofoxone - 11/2/2007 12:12:06 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

"Toyota has gone a more generic route with their car line up. Not necessarily a bad thing, when you take into account they took the top slot from GM."

GM is #1 again (Q3 sales). It's very close, though.

Ingenieur - 11/2/2007 10:01:31 AM

+1 Boost

midengine,

"Why were the East Germans backwards compared to the West Germans? Mostly because they had a backwards system imposed on them ..."

Exactly! The point of my post (prior to this) was to point out that there are other factors at play than just your "populations change" theory and that things do change (for better or worse). Yes, the East Germans were indeed "better off" compared to the other Eastern Bloc nations but the point is, relative to West Germany, who had the same people and the same culture, they were behind. And the same goes for the North Euro vs South Euro comparison. The gap that exists today (and I tell you, the technological gap between Greece and Sweden is wide!) has to do, among other things, with the environment (be that the political, economic, cultural or economic environment).

Ingenieur - 11/2/2007 8:47:40 PM

+1 Boost

Midengine,

But that doesn't change my point does it? You're theory was only a "population change" would cause a change and my counter-argument was that the environment (be it natural, political, economic, or cultural) plays a factor. Natural talent is but one ingredient. There are other factors that drive technological progress.

Ingenieur - 11/3/2007 6:24:24 PM

+1 Boost

I am not disputing the value of natural talent. Below is the difference in our views.

assume the following:
x = natural talent
y = right environment
z = technological progress

your view:

x = z

my view:

x + y = z

Ingenieur - 11/4/2007 9:18:36 AM

+1 Boost

Huh? Which one's the y variable? If the x variable in your scenario is the ability to supply good parts (the talent), which one's the y variable?

SixxFive - 10/31/2007 11:31:09 PM

+1 Boost

As the lead engineer for this car stated that it's for drivers without a skill level....

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Rupert - 11/1/2007 6:37:27 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I think what Yaguchi-san said was quite an accurate summary of the IS-F, it's not intended to be hardcore, but is a fast, good handling car. They have achieved their goal.
The only reason I wouldn't have one is the styling, the badge (I know that sounds petty but Lexus does not have much credibility where I live, and people would just think it's a souped up Japanese thing) and lack of a manual.

Will they even sell it in Europe? I haven't seen any adverts for it...

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Ingenieur - 11/1/2007 9:35:13 AM

+1 Boost

Midengine,

So what is wrong with that statement? All it means is that they are competitive.

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Kinger - 11/1/2007 2:26:58 PM

+3 Boost

The M3 probably needs to be driven harder to explore its limits, but for Yaguchi to say that it isn't fun to drive for what he deems an unskilled driver is a bit ludicrous. Here's a quote from the Top Gear review about the new M3:

"If you're useless, you can drive an M3 fast; if you're brilliant, you'll be able to wring the M3 out and still be impressed. That is a very hard dichotomous trick to pull off, and its one of the few cars that does it successfully."

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/drives/079-bmw-m3/

reply to this comment

Kinger - 11/2/2007 7:05:40 AM

+2 Boost

"Wow...so M3 drivers are useless."

I'm sure some of them probably are, but then again I'm sure there are useless drivers driving all types of cars.

ThierryHenry14 - 11/1/2007 4:28:20 PM

+2 Boost

I hate lexus, but I give them all the credit for putting out a car to compete with the "well-established" folks of the bunch.

The only way to start building a name is to start building a car.

The only problem I see with the IS-F, which I believe Toyota will agree with me, but Lexus fanboys won't, and that is Toyota put out this car to steal market shares because the potential is there. It does not need to be "inspired".

reply to this comment

ThierryHenry14 - 11/1/2007 4:35:36 PM

+2 Boost

Just something to add:

The reason the three german marques thrive in this segment is because the 3er, A4, and c-klasse are the respective company's "bread winners". They are the segment that they live by, except maybe MB, which lives closely with the S-klasse as well. Lexus does not live on the IS segment. They live on the RX SUV. That is why I believe the IS is in it just for market shares.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/2/2007 12:15:53 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

That's because it's accepted that the C63 is amazing. It's simultaneously the quickest, best-handling, cheapest AMG car available.

But with the IS-F, M3 and in the case of the other article, the RS4, there is bashing to be done.

So many people have tried to make peace like this before... it doesn't work. I'm not sure exactly what it is that makes this site so different from other sites, where there is no (or little) bashing. It's something, though. Perhaps people here are just more honest.

reply to this comment

Kinger - 11/2/2007 7:13:00 AM

+1 Boost

I'd love to be able to come in here and just discuss the cars I like, but every thread just seems to decend into shameless bashing of other brands. I'd love to see what would happen if all the members of autospies were asked to design and build a car together, now that would be entertaining lol.

reply to this comment

Rupert - 11/2/2007 7:52:01 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Kinger, if we did that, we could never decide what sort of car it would be, and it would be a horrible blend of SUV, sports car, coupe and saloon, with an automatic manual, twin turbo diesel hybrid, AWD, luxury yet stripped out feeling inside...

A BMW X6 basically.

reply to this comment

BurningMan - 11/2/2007 7:18:23 AM

+1 Boost

By tuning the IS-F for the masses instead of the enthusist they will ensure their buyers end up being 60+ year old insurance salesman with a mid-life crisis. So much for reducing the age of the average Lexus buyer.

reply to this comment

StickShiftCamry - 11/3/2007 11:15:44 AM

0 Boost

Too bad, all the hot shorty's wanna see u roll up in an IS-F not an out dated lookin RS4 or a common M3. The IS-F is gangsta and it's here to stay.

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Homer008 - 11/3/2007 5:11:50 PM

0 Boost

This car might be the next world car of the year, folks.

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