27 Votes

BMW: Audi is no threat

dannyboy2 submitted on 6/14/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 8:35:32 AM

44 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.motorauthority.com

Tag Links: BMW, Audi

Audi has certainly lifted its game over the past five years, releasing more models, increasing its market share and picking up a horde of quality gongs, so you’d think fellow German luxury brand BMW would be feeling the heat.

Not so, says BMW Group Australia managing director Guenther Seemann, speaking recently with GoAuto, mainly because it doesn’t build RWD cars.

Seemann explains that BMW has only two main competitors, “one comes from Stuttgart and the other comes from Japan”. He also suggested that Audi’s recent sales increase was spurred by heavy discounting and that this tactic will eventually harm the brand and reduce customer loyalty.

Sounds like BMW is in denial.

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— dannyboy2 (View Profile)

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"...says BMW Group Australia managing director Guenther Seemann..."

Clearly the guy has no real scope of the entire globe, for he's on the only island that's also a continent.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 10:28:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

I must say though that these little cat fights between BMW and Audi CEOs, COOs, managers, (even factory workers I bet) etc. is getting ridiculous.

Mainly because most on the BMW side are way too cocky...
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 10:32:14 AM | | Votes: 10

Haven't these guys figured out by now that bold statements like that almost always come back to haunt them? I sometimes think that BMW guys often get drunk off their own propaganda. This guy sounds like that Iraqi PR guy on CNN claiming to be winning the war as the US tanks are literally rolling into Bagdad.
— Neverfollow (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:29:08 AM | | Votes: 6

Guenther Seemann is a German exec who only moved to Australia recently.
— dannyboy2 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:38:31 AM | | Votes: -1

idiot article

BMW was in Forbs last 2 months ago leading the Lux market with discounts

have you seen the price of a S6, S4 ,S8, R8 RS4 A3? HAve you seen the lease? Have you seen the buy rate with AFS 7.17 & APR

Where is the discounts?
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 1:11:04 PM | | Votes: 6

where are the discounts is proper
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 1:11:51 PM | | Votes: 5

He will be getting reprimanded for saying that, I reckon.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 10:59:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Anybody who loves driving knows the BMW is exactly right with what he is saying.

BMW's focus is and always has been on driver thrills. It's a basic fact of automotive engineering that rear wheel drive cars offer better handling and a more exciting and rewarding drive....therefore AUdi is not a rival. Simple logic.

I would add that Infiniti build decent rear wheel drive sedans however so they are also a rival. They are set to become a bigger rival as they start selling in European countries in the near future.
— maff23uk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:14:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Not for long. Check out the RS4, R8, new S6-- that's how Audi's cars are going to drive from now on.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:27:21 AM | | Votes: -1

S4 Cabrio

You are comparing Audi Rs to plain jane BMWs why dont u compare the R to the M line. Little unfair on ur part. Audi still has a lot of work to do (in america especially) Its not really the first brand that comes to mind when you think of Luxury Sport German autos.

— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:42:37 AM | | Votes: 3

S4 Cabrio

Granted the models you mention are certainly great handling cars but Audi isn't a direct competitor to BMW until every car they produce provides an exciting drive.

BMW engineers every single model from a 1-series diesel up with the singleminded vision of making it entertaining to drive.
— maff23uk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 12:51:05 PM | | Votes: 1

Using the logic that BMWs are exciting and fun to drive has an interesting twist to it. Consider that according to this article Lexus is considered a BMW competitor.

Have you driven a Lexus? They are very nice cars and they are great at what they do. But they don't build exciting fun to drive cars.

As a BMW fan, my second choice is Audi. With Lexus being way down the list of what I would drive.
— daytonaviolet (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 1:50:31 PM | | Votes: 2

Yes, I KNOW I was using RS models. The implication was that ALL Audis will match the current S/RS cars for handling in the future. Use your heads! I even wrote it out!
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 3:00:25 PM | | Votes: 2

*the BMW Australia MD*
— maff23uk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:15:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

He can keep telling himself that...

I wonder what the BMW Asia and BMW Europe people have to say?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:26:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Here is bmw not worried about Audi.

RS4 comes out - BMW says don't buy in we will redesign the M3 and it will be a little better in 2 to 3 years

let's redesign SMG to be a DSG

let's come out with an AWD 5 and 3 series

let's upgrade the hp of the 7, 5 , 3 series right after audi does

let's come out with a R8 competitor

let's come out with FSI

let's redesign the X5 to have 7 seats (right after the Q7 comes out)

let's design a bi turbo engine just like the S4 A6 2.7T engine

my point is not that BMW sucks it is just BMW has to think of Audi because they talk about them all the time. I am shure BMW will do things that Audi will respond to just like BMW does it to Audi
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 1:21:21 PM | | Votes: 2

Im a German car fan but even I would take a Lexus over an Audi. Unless its an R line model of course. Audi should stick to 1 principle, maybe what the brand was originally intended to be. They seem to be switching into the sport then luxury then sport philosophies and dont seem to efficiently come through with any 1 theme.

Actually, Audi's main rival is Infiniti. For those that dont believe me look it up.
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:47:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Actually, if you look at the philosophies Audi and Acura are much more similar. They both mix luxury and handling and have FWD and AWD. On the other side - Infiniti seeks to compete with BMW more than Lexus. Tell you the truth in the article he says that one is from Japan. We don't kno which one he meant. Realistically though the Infiniti G,M,FX are very similar philosophies to the BMW 3,5,X3/5. To me Infiniti is more the direct competition than a Lexus IS or GS (I won't even think of the RX).
— truecarlover (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 7:29:02 PM | | Votes: 3

Even so, how does BMW seem to keep reaching the conclusion that your drivetrain setup determines who your competition is?

So the A3 is no direct competitor to the 1-Series?
The A4 is no direct competitor to the 3-Series?
The A6 is no direct competitor to the 5-Series?
The A8 is no direct competitor to the 7-Series?

All this based on the fact that the Audis are FWD/AWD and the BMWs are RWD? This still doesn't make any sense to me.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:48:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Will,

I think the fact is that in terms of their core values BMW doesn't see Audi as a competitor because it doesn't build RWD driver focused cars. However, in the reality of the marketplace, you're absolutely right in saying those Audi/BMW combinations are direct competitors.

— maff23uk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 12:57:36 PM | | Votes: -2

Audi may not rival BMW in the driving experience, but they blow BMW away in aesthetics. Driving experience is one thing but I expect more from a daily driver. Other than the driving experience, BMW's are boring cars.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 11:56:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I'd like to consider your point but you haven't offered any substance.

What exactly do you feel makes an Audi a more exciting car than a BMW (other than driving experience)?

IMHO until very recently Audi's have typically been the most conservative and boring of the German brands in terms of exterior design. Thankfully they have now discovered some flair with the TT, R8, A5 and the rest of their range in general.
— maff23uk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 1:01:38 PM | | Votes: 0

You want boring? Just try a 525 sometime.
— Neverfollow (View Profile)

Posted on 6/19/2007 8:08:56 PM | | Votes: 1

HEAVY DISCOUNTING???
Where???
I don't see it...
We have not had programs that we used to have in several years...our clients are becoming more and more wealthy and most are paying cash for their cars.
Seems to me that in the U.S BMW is heavily subsidising their leases...

That guy is really arrogant..
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 12:03:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

You must live in a VERY wealthy area if "most" Audi customers pay cash for their cars. I would have thought the proportion of people paying cash for cars (of any brand) would be around the 1% mark!
— maff23uk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 1:05:00 PM | | Votes: -2

His comments go against the facts. Audi's profits per vehicle have been going up in recent years while BMW's have been going down. All you have to do is look at the financial statements of both. I think BMW might bring in more profit overall - but I know the gap was closing rapidly.
— truecarlover (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 7:38:39 PM | | Votes: 3

'Audi is no threat': FAMOUS LAST WORDS. Hey BMW honcho! Pride cometh before the- you know what. Build your cars well and quit the wisecracks.
— Lyall (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 2:54:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

BMW's focus is only on 'Driver Skills & Thrills'. Have you ever tried to change the radio station on your BMW's i-drive while driving down Topanga Canyon? You'll damn near kill yourself.
Nothing in modern day auto design has been as LESS dirver focused than iDrive.
But George Bush would admit he's botched Iraq before BMW would admit the iDrive SUCKS.
— Lyall (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 2:58:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

The speaker has a lot to learn from the competition. Bill Gates was once asked how Microsoft got to where it is today. He replied something like "Because every day we behave like Apple could kill us."

BMW is very successful. If their quality numbers were better, and their cars weren't ugly as sin, I'd be looking at BMW for my next car, rather than Audi.

BTW, I currently have 3 BMWs in my garage, the oldest being a '97. The newest an '01. All good lookers, and reasonably reliable.
— Steve (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 5:37:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I am BMW fan, but I could understand someone liking Audi in the last 10 years they have stepped up their products, Lexus also.
— Larry (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 6:58:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Okay, then, I'll stop shuffling you with amazinBimmer in the ever-shrinking crop of BMW trolls.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2007 1:29:19 AM | | Votes: 2

Worldwide - Audi is an up and coming threat to them - that's why they keep making the comments. Really though - it's that they are more of an alternatives to one another. They both have different philosophies.
— truecarlover (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 7:36:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Audi, currently is not a threat to BMW.
But they may be soon . . . real soon !!!
Everything that Audi is doing currently BMW has already done.

Take the R8, BMW did it 25+ years ago with the M1 and then collaborated with McLaren in the 90's on the F1 after Mercedes couldn't meet the needs for the engine specs. Audi wasn't asked.

Audi as well as BMW have had at least one awd model in the lineup since the 80's.
Audi nor Volkswagen invented the "dsg". The Volkswagen group put it in production vehicles first under license. The VW Group did have the forsight and good since to use it although at first it couldn,t handle large amounts of torque.
Audi's FSI is the equivalent to BMW's first generation direct injection system. This is not the system found in the 335 turbo. Mercedes was the first to use direct injection in a full production auto.

People seem to forget the Audi almost left the US market just not to long ago due to poor reliablity and sales. I know first hand......believe that.
Until recently and even now in certain circles Audi was looked at as the "nicer", (if you will) VW. A competitor to Saab and Volvo not Mercedes and BMW.
However, the VW Group is coming back with a vengence and coming back hard.
BMW is cocky and can afford to be to a certain degree. It took Audi's best designed V8 to knock the block off of BMW's best designed I6 and that's how it's seen at BMW MSD.
Like I said The VWG are making moves with gorilla style marketing and vehicle design revamping to say the least.

Watch out BMW !
Your A$$ is showing

— Whattt (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 7:35:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

In a word - the guy was using propaganda. Not a great marketing strategy if you ask me. I can't agree with everything you said but I will say that Audi has to change it's image here. Overseas it didn't have the image problems like here - that's why it's sales don't grow as quickly as it does elsewhere. The BMW exec made one good point - and that is Audi has to win the respect of it's buyers - which BMW has been doing for years. My only question is what market outside of the U.S. could he be talking about?
— truecarlover (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 7:44:39 PM | | Votes: 3

you shouldnt take the execs words so literal. hes just saying out loud to push down on audi. dont think for a second bmw doesnt keep looking over at audi. bmw's strategy is clear and it seems to win.

every time a competitor releases a new car, whatever it competes with gets a redo. the 335, facelift 5 series, facelift of the 7 multiple times. redo of the X5 when the Q7 was released. add to that the really good lease rates you can get on a bmw and its so hard to not make the move. this strategy is costly i would imagine, but in the long run if you keep people in bmws they may keep on buying bmw. then you end up with fanboys like formula1 who will lay down their lives for the roundel.
— gsh23 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 7:58:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Auto execs will never admit that a competitor is a threat as that would be displaying a defeatist career-limiting attitude. I'm a consumer so I can tell it like it is: Audi is not only a threat to BMW but to Mercedes as well. I predict that Audi ( well, VW) will end up owning Mercedes or BMW within 20 years.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2007 9:16:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I don't know about THAT, but I predict that they'll surpass one of them in sales, if not both.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2007 1:31:37 AM | | Votes: 2

Well duh of course to BMW Audi is no threat - I don't think so either - and please don't just call me biased because my username has the word "BMW" in it.
— nine (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2007 4:12:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

The fact is when Audi BMW Mercedes Lexus etc argue and bicker and try to out do each other we all benefit. I say hey let the catfights continue they'll make better cars that we all enjoy as a result.
— Bighead255 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2007 10:15:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Only people who belieave fairy tales would belieave this guy. Audi sells 1 mil. units.
— AUTO_UNION (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2007 4:27:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

And statements like this one will do more damage to BMW than Audi!
— AUTO_UNION (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2007 4:28:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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BMW: Audi is no threat

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