BMW Brand Sales Slump 8%, Mini Sales Off 2% for September

Agent009 submitted on 10/03/2006 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:14 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[73] user comments | category: Spy Shots

Tags: BME Mini

BME Mini

BMW brand sales were down 8 percent in September for a total of 20,339 vehicles compared to 22,052 reported in the same month a year ago

Automobile sales dipped 2 percent in September to 15,275 cars versus 15,609 in the same month a year ago.

Sales of BMW Sports Activity Vehicles were down 21 percent in September, to 5,064 vehicles over the 6,443 sold in the same month last year.

MINI USA also reported September sales of 2,964 automobiles, off 2 percent from the 3,027 cars sold last September.

This is attributed to the MINI factory in Oxford being closed for part of August in preparation for the new model year, resulting in extremely low inventories of MINI automobiles.

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BavarianMotorrad - 10/3/2006 2:27:07 PM

+1 Boost

A large part must be due to emergent of the new product line up that is being introduced (3 series, x5, upgraded x3, etc..)but yet to be available in the month.

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smshnick - 10/3/2006 2:37:20 PM

+1 Boost

A large part due to the fact that the cars just aren't as good as they used to be. They've got plenty of inventory sitting on their lot right now..

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lewissalem - 10/3/2006 2:48:51 PM

+2 Boost

Yes. Why buy the 330i when the 335i is going to have 300 HP for only $1,800 more?

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spiceace - 10/3/2006 3:01:48 PM

+1 Boost

I am surprised by the number.

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Agent009 - 10/3/2006 4:13:57 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

The actual BMW post was reeling superlatives about being up in sales for the quarter. Only when you read deeper did you see they actually lost sales for the last two months in a row. I imagine this dip will be very short lived.

BM3W - 10/3/2006 3:22:05 PM

0 Boost

No surprise....a year ago BMW was posting sales numbers that were out of the world. They couldn't keep that pace forever.

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1970toyotamarc - 10/3/2006 4:32:04 PM

0 Boost

BMW 20,339
Lexus 25,700
The gap just keeps widening.

I love the beginning of each month when sales figures get released. It makes listening to whining BMW fans (magic feel, soul, etc) for a whole month bearable.

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kart1 - 10/3/2006 5:16:21 PM

+1 Boost

Only Toyota can keep posting positive numbers, we'll have to see about the forever part :).

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kart1 - 10/3/2006 5:18:58 PM

+1 Boost

This is also why it is a good thing to release your vehicles over mid summer (late july - early august) your sales don't slump and they customers don't have to wait. Good business practice is keeping the customers happy not waiting.

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Storm9 - 10/3/2006 6:23:53 PM

+1 Boost

Kart1, In Europe most things are closed for August, and production for new models start in september while factory is being retooled in August.

BMW has the new 3's and X5 comming out, watch the sales jump over the next year.

Expect them to keep posting sales out of this world next year :P

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smshnick - 10/3/2006 6:39:21 PM

+2 Boost

Subjectively speaking, the new 3-coupe is the only new BMW that doesn't have controversial styling. Everything else has to "grow on you". BMW fans, I'm sorry to report, but the party's over.

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chewy - 10/3/2006 7:05:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I don't think that the "new model is coming soon" works for BMW, I doubt more than 25% of BMW byers even know that there will be a turbo 335i, many probably don't even know what a turbo is.

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S4cabriofox - 10/4/2006 10:39:40 PM

+1 Boost

Exactly!

It's not much of an excuse at all.

I love BMW and this is still sublime sales for a luxury brand, but having one new model coming out (the 335i is already at dealers; I've seen four in one lot and it's gorgeous) won't change it much.

Think about it: the X5 sold well for a very long time, but the Lexus RX still sells better, the Audi Q7 is getting more popular by the day, the Volvo XC90 is still strong, and though the Cayenne is slumping, it's more of a status symbol. The only car I can think of that the X5 will be able to beat unquestionably is the ML350. That Benz is still lukewarm in my opinion. I love the new X5 as much as the next guy, but it's not going to revolutionize the brand.

MercBasher - 10/3/2006 7:05:41 PM

+3 Boost

Many will claim that the decline is because of better 3 series models in the pipeline. I disagree, I think BMW sales have been inflated recently through heavily subsidized leases, the real picture for BMW is much bleaker. BMW faces renewed competition from Lexus (new cars), Mercedes (new SUVs) and Audi (more models). At the same time BMW has a similar problem to the one it had in the 1980s, overexposure and high market share among "credit challenged" hairdressers, flight attendants, and sales reps.

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1970toyotamarc - 10/3/2006 7:12:31 PM

+1 Boost

Waiting for the X3, X5, 335....why is it with BMW we always seem to be waiting?
If this is how we interpret sales data, then well, Lexus is waiting for the new LS (this year), the new GS460 (next year), the new LX (next year?), the new IS500, IS coupe, SC coupe, and so on....

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DrCallosum - 10/3/2006 7:38:13 PM

-4 Boost

Honestly i feel like the only intelligent person here BTW i am a orthopedic surgeon if anyone wants to challenge me but honestly use ur commonsense...... BMW is just about to go thru its a complete model overhual in the next 1-3 yrs.... It's just like mercedes benz 2 yrs ago... all there models were getting old the new ones came out ( S class, M class,) and there sales ave kicked back up again.... BMW has sum big time new cars just about to come.... New 3 series coupe which i have no doubt will kill in sales.... the new X5 again the absolute benchmark looks great betters audi interior in my own opinion and my god its popular its the doctors car..... the bmw 7 series is the oldest car in its segiment sooo obviously its not gonna ave the strongest sales..... WHEN the new ones released itll be seeling the most for proberly 2-3 years..... Refreshed 5 series next year again big increase in sales...... NEW and muchhhhhhhh better X3 will really help increase sales..... IN my OPINION the 3 series needs a quick lil cosmetic tweak at the rear and itll be cruising for years.... SO i mean commonsense says when ur products get older there not gonna sell aswell as they did when there new.... and BMW have alot of new models coming so expect increasein sales..... COMMONSENSE PEOPLE start using (Notice im not biased towards just BMW i also said its happened to mercedes benz and there on the other end of the slump now)

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Futureman - 10/3/2006 10:36:40 PM

+3 Boost

Don't let AussieBimmerRep operate on you. There is no way that he is an orthopedic surgeon. His illiterate, rambling e-mails give that away. Here are some of my favorite lines:

"Honestly i feel like the only intelligent person here BTW i am a orthopedic surgeon if anyone wants to challenge me but honestly use ur commonsense..." (should be "an" orthpedic surgeon/ commonsense is not one word)

"all there models were getting old the new ones came out" (it's their, not there Dr. Aussie)

"SO i mean commonsense says when ur products get older there not gonna sell aswell as they did when there new" (there should be they're in the first instance, and they were in the second)

I could keep going, and going, and going.

I wonder if he still feels like the only intelligent person here.

1970toyotamarc - 10/4/2006 1:54:24 AM

+2 Boost

Poor grammar and spelling notwithstanding, the logic is also flawed. Plus, he apparently can't read previous posts.) It has clearly been pointed out that other brands have cars in their pipelines too. As for BMW's waiting game,tThe X5 does not register enough sales to anticipate that much of a diffeerence when the new model arrives. An engine upgrade to the 3 will not alter sales much. The 5 and 6 are still relatively new, and the 7 has a couple more years. I don't know what you BMW fans are waiting for, but just keep waiting....

Rupert - 10/4/2006 5:47:14 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

he's a bmw dealer, he told us, i'm sure.

MercBasher - 10/3/2006 7:43:33 PM

+2 Boost

AussieBimmerRep - what a croc! all the major luxury manufacturers have a lot of new models coming soon, one can argue that BMW's model range is newer than most. The reason for the sales decline in the US in renewed competition and the saturation by BMW over the summer of deep deep discount lease deals. All the folks who are especially price sensitive have already loaded up on cheap 3 series sedans and X3s and X5s.

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JRobUSC - 10/3/2006 7:52:23 PM

+1 Boost

you can't sell what you don't have, and outside of the west coast most BMW dealers don't have many 2007 5's, 2006 3's, 2006 X5's, or 2006 X'3 in stock (source: BMW's Sales Roundtable, 2PM this afternoon). Those are BMW's highest volume vehicles. The biggest slump is in X3 and X5 sales because there are totally new models coming out in a week (X3) and a month (X5), and the 2007 328i/xi and 335i sedans all come out in a week or so as well. Sales will pick back up once the new models are in, and even with fewer models and several models on closeout they still beat Mercedes for the month.

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crackityjones - 10/4/2006 3:17:49 PM

+1 Boost

I agree. No crisis here. Just model-intros and inventory flux. Though, the challenges for BMW that have been eloquently pointed out above are real. Flame surfacing is just the surface. They aren't sitting on a dynasty but keeping one step ahead of obsolescence.

JRobUSC - 10/3/2006 7:57:47 PM

+1 Boost

oh, and the 3-coupe (which is a lower volume model than sedan) JUST came out. Once all the new cars are in BMW will be back up, that's how the sales cycle goes. Anyone saying otherwise has never worked in sales, it is always like that. Look at the new Mercedes S-class -- sales are up 100% over last year, a year it actually sold fewer units than the 7-series AND Audi A8. Why? New model was coming.

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DrCallosum - 10/3/2006 8:03:32 PM

-2 Boost

Well that practically shuts everyone up doesnt it again commonsense provails..... BMW model range is very old atm aswell..... only the 3 series has been released within the last 2-3 years.... the latest complete revision or new model was the 6 series...... The 5 series is 4 years old now as is the 7 series and new x5 is due to replace a 7 yr old car the X3 was shcoking but is much better now sooo increase sales there new HOT 3 series coupe.... new 3 seroes sedan engines (Although think they needa tweak its style alil already lookin dated)..... the 5 series is a big seller around the world and its coming up to a refresh next yr soo again sales will increase and IN MY OPINION the NEW X% is just gonna SKY ROCKET INS ALES cause its hot aggressive and classy at the same time.... not many cars out there like that anymore (especially from BMW).... BMW also needa improve there interiors then then you would have to admit my saying what competition would be a very valid point....

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smshnick - 10/3/2006 8:24:42 PM

+3 Boost

I work at a very big MB dealership, and since the new "Bangle-ized" cars have been out, we get significantly more late model BMW's (2005,2006, etc) traded in. These customers tell us they just don't like the new cars like they did their old ones.

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huu76 - 10/3/2006 8:45:02 PM

+1 Boost

Wasn't the excuse of slowing production due to new models the same excuse they used a month or two back when BMW sales dropped 10%?

There's hope though. If the new 3 series stays true to what we've seen, sales will level out. Who'd want a sedan though after they see the coupe?

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1970toyotamarc - 10/4/2006 1:59:05 AM

+1 Boost

It's their excuse every time. No one other than BMW fanatics are buying it. Every argument repeats the same mantra..... Just wait for the new 3, X3 and X5...
And none of them care that every other luxury make has new cars coming as well.
Keep those blinders on, and I'll keep watching BMW slip further and further behind Lexus. Hey, watch out for Audi creepin up behind too....

hassan - 10/4/2006 2:45:23 AM

0 Boost

asdafdfsdf

kart1 - 10/3/2006 11:39:24 PM

+2 Boost

Storm9 - most things maybe closed in Europe for August - but the US keeps running and demanding. This is what I mean by customer satisfaction. Lexus thinks about its customer base in the US and in other regions as well. BMW just wants to release "We are Independent" commercials. BMW sales wouldn't slump if they released their cars on par with their Japanese counterparts. Lexus is gobbling up the German's share if people here haven't noticed. Ah who cares, you guys won't understand what I am saying.

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stevej125 - 10/3/2006 11:58:35 PM

+3 Boost

#1 love Bmw's, owned 3 already. In a MB E class currently and quite frustrated with the performance. Will be back in a BMW by years end, hopefully!

The numbers don't matter, people that drive BMW long for performance and drive dynamics. This is a very special company , and I hope they are never about mass market. They are profitableand, there is still something quite special about driving a BMW.

#2 Aussiebimmerrep is quite pathetic. Who cares if you are an Orthopod. BTW I am a real American Surgeon, but would never use that on a website to justify my brains. When I was in Medical school we all made fun of the Bone docs, because they were the most mentally challanged docs in our class. "Bone broke, me Fix"
Stop name dropping, and stop wearing your scrubs in public.

We are all car buffs here, and no one cares about your occupation!

We do care about your similar passion for automobiles!

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1970toyotamarc - 10/4/2006 2:00:33 AM

+2 Boost

"and I hope they are never about mass market. "
Except when they are....3 series, and 2 SUV's

nice try

Rupert - 10/4/2006 5:51:37 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

steve, bmw are as mass-market as wal mart.
it's a fine line for them to tread between good public image and over exposure, count yourself lucky that every 10th car isn't a 3er where you live in america, here in the uk they're everywhere.
318, 320d, etc.

huu76 - 10/4/2006 10:18:43 PM

+1 Boost

The 3-series was intended for nothing else but mass market. It appears BMW has to make money like everyone else.

sewingmachine - 10/4/2006 12:04:37 AM

+1 Boost

-I hope they are never about mass market.

what company isnt a mass market company, expect bentley and what not. every quarter bmw comes out with statements, they want to sell more than before. i think u better pick another company dude if u dont want masses.

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Rupert - 10/4/2006 5:52:31 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

bentley is practically mass market now, what with all those footballers' wives buying them

kart1 - 10/4/2006 1:24:55 AM

+1 Boost

sewingmachine: The only company I know that isn't mass marketing is Walmart.

Why because they are the whole market ;).

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hassan - 10/4/2006 2:46:06 AM

0 Boost

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

hassan - 10/4/2006 2:47:13 AM

0 Boost

szXZZZXZX

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MPowerDK - 10/4/2006 5:40:30 AM

+1 Boost

If the world has not have Adolf Hitler, we would not have had VW, Audi and so on. He (Adolf) would like the germans to have a cheep car (VW)... thanks that BMW and MB lived to make the cars they make to day.Then we dont have to drive a hitlermobile

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crackityjones - 10/4/2006 3:19:29 PM

+1 Boost

This is just so ignorant and scary on so many levels. Please do us a favor and stop posting.

DarkOneForce - 10/4/2006 7:30:39 AM

+1 Boost

No surprise here.
Until the 328/335 sedans/wagons/coupes, FL X3 and new X5
invetories fill up, BMW sales won't go up.
Expect this in November in best case, or January worst case.

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BMWDan583 - 10/4/2006 10:34:44 AM

0 Boost

There are so many idiots on these forums. I have to admit I did not read every single comment, as about half way through I got so frustrated I alsmost smashed my computer.

Septmenber (especially this year) is a very transitional month for BMW. They are coming with a new 3 series sedan and coupe, they are coming with a new X3, they have a new X5 on its way. BMW cuts production to prep the factory for these new models, and so dealers get a very small percentage of the inventory they typically get. I work at a BMW dealer, and we are OUT of 3 series sedans/coupes/convertibles, 5 series sedans/wagons, X3's (we have two, typically we have 30), and X5's (we have 6 between the 6 & 8 cylinder, usually 25 or 30 of each). Further more, typically only about 15 or 20 percent of our inbound inventory is presold at any given time, and right now our inbound inventory is over 75 percent presold. We simply to not have any inventory to sell because of all the transitions taking place. Since we have no inventory to sell, we have been taking orders on the new product coming in. Our September was down more than 8%, but our October will be up more than 20% I bet. Typically there is not this much change going on at one given time.

Some idiot mentioned earlier that they should come out with new product in July, so they dont keep the customers waiting. This is undoubtedly one of the stupidest things I have every heard. If the new product came out in July, that means this situation (NO INVENTORY due to transitions at factories) would have taken place in June, one of the biggest sales months of the year. September is a slow month most of the time anyways.

BMW sales were not down because people dont want to buy the cars, it is because there was nothing for people to buy. People on this website frustrate me to no end. You need to learn about the car business before you go making these lame comments.

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PlanoA4 - 10/4/2006 11:40:51 AM

+2 Boost

Funny there were no shortages of BMW's in Dallas. Maybe you guys ran the inventory too tight.

kart1 - 10/4/2006 1:02:27 PM

+2 Boost

BMWDan583 - You guys are the idiots that cannot manage inventory problems. Who taught you how to be in business. That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. "We have no inventory", BMW dealers in my area have plenty of inventory and they still don't sell. If you guys can't plan for enough inventory then you guys simply don't know how to manage inventories. Also is the BMW the only company that is transitioning to new models??? What kind of a stupid excuse is that - every company comes out with new models every year, did you know that??? Transitions at the Factories, come on your excuses are just pathetic.

OH yeah this is why BMW sales are not customer orientated, maybe you don't know but business is done to make money, and if you don't make your product available due to lame "factory transition" excuses then you just have way too many excuses. Someone was right, only BMW fans buy this crap from BMW.

What kind of car business does not want to make cars available to customers to buy? Why keep inventory back in factories if they can be easily sold. Do understand what business is let alone Car business.

Smart guy huh???

Rupert - 10/4/2006 5:54:20 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

to be fair, in the uk bmw launched 30 new model changes in spetember. it is a transitional month.

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huu76 - 10/4/2006 10:23:30 PM

+1 Boost

VW is transitioning from their old TDI to whatever the new diesel is (because the TDI's are not allowed to be sold here if they were made after a specific date due to emission regulations). What does VW do? Plan ahead and stockpile TDI's before the deadline and sell those for their "transition" YEAR. I don't like VW, but gotta give them credit for that.

Bangle must be running BMW's supply chain now. That would explain a lot.

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Spoonie_G - 10/6/2006 9:11:54 AM

0 Boost

Toyota sucks. We're not talking about appliances here. With all the recalls they've been having, I question their assembly methods.

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huu76 - 10/6/2006 12:54:40 AM

+1 Boost

My friend works for a company that refits and retools assembly lines for Toyota and Honda. They can redo an entire line for a new model within 2 weeks. They frequently retool it for new parts over a weekend.

This low-supply crap is a bogus excuse.

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DarkOneForce - 10/6/2006 10:57:37 AM

+1 Boost

Nope.

1. For starters cost cutting (= among others to fast launches) costed Toyota 2.3 million units in recalls and postponig new models this year.

2. When Toyota (and/or Honda, Nissan) were in such situation, they concentrated on the USA market, while somehow Toyota fanatics didn't saw the drops in european, japanese sales (altough there are more complex reasons japanese sales fall) and other regions sales.

3. This actually happen before, in Q4 2003 and Q1 2004, for example, when BSers from here, were screaming how Bangle killed BMW, and how the japanese are taking over. And before that, what now happens on a mothly basis, once happen on a yearly basis (but now no more). (this also happened to MB recently)

Spoonie_G - 10/6/2006 9:09:41 AM

+1 Boost

How about: Odd styling, useless/complex technology, and price.

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huu76 - 10/6/2006 11:21:06 AM

+1 Boost

dark,
What you're seeing is the result of rearranging their customer base, not gaining new ones. In the spring Autolies posted an article showing BMW sales didnt drop. What happened was that sales shifted from 3-series to the 3-series awd.

The problem now is that their currnt FOB base have all bought their awd cars and they can't get new customers to replace them.

Care to shed some light on the recalls? 2.3 million over a 6 year model range. That's about 48 million cars in total. What about the 46 million that didn't get recalled?

I'll take loose panels over electrical fires anyday. I'll take a faulty steering column (that has yet to net any real cases of broken shafts) over no brakes anyday.

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huu76 - 10/6/2006 11:23:09 AM

+2 Boost

btw, the Japanese are taking over. They've already won the gas and hybrid markets, as well as N.America, Asia and the rest of the world (except snobby
Europe). They're going to take away the diesel market from the Germans as well.

I've noticed they haven't had a Toyota recall article lately. Slim pickings? As I said, I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted.

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DarkOneForce - 10/6/2006 3:19:21 PM

+1 Boost

So let's see.

Even without European sales BMW still would have outsold Lexus.

Middle East, China, Japan (soon India) all chose german premium cars, since they don't see Lexus for more than fancy Toyotas.

Hell that's without mentioning South America, Africa and so on.

More sales in the USA doesn't mean taking over from the germans.

Facts: 2005

~ 396 000 Lexus units sold in 2005 vs.
~1 123 000 BMW brand units

How's that taking over ?!

Lexus - USA sales = ~ 90 000 units;
BMW (brand) - USA = ~857 000 units;

Lexus - USA - Europe = ~ 59 300 units;
BMW b - USA - Europe = ~206 500 units;

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DarkOneForce - 10/6/2006 3:29:27 PM

+1 Boost

Mistake:
Lexus - USA - Europe = ~ 61 300 units
vs ~206 500

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huu76 - 10/6/2006 8:17:01 PM

+1 Boost

Read this, one inaccuracy, Toyota high end cars had sales of 50,000 (BMW+MB= 90,000). Toyota is generally conservative with their sales estimates. Considering they only had 3 Lexus models (SC was never expected to be a volume car, so really 2) in Japan, the sales aren't that bad (not as good as they had hoped but they'll learn from it)
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/20/business/15482609&sec=

Take an Eastern view, 1 market at a time. They own Asia since German cars (no VW) don't sell in high enough volume and top end Toyotas outsell them.

They own N.America. Your global numbers aren't accurate as Lexus only seriously sold in 1 market. BMW sales were only about 200,000 in the U.S. vs Lexus' nearly 300,000. BMW don't look so good when you put things in perspective now do they?

Toyota competes quite well against BMW/MB everywhere else (and they've never seen Lexus before so you can't compare Lexus yet).

Lexus has the backing of Toyota's 9 million units sold, and it's $12 billion in NET profits. All of Germany can't even produce that many cars if you include Lexus (BMW+MB+Audi+VW+Porsche < Toyota+Lexus), and they aren't even close in profitability.

Europe is the last place German cars are safe, and even then, they're starting to see the competition get tougher (i.e. Toyota sales topping 1 million this year).

One other thing, IS sales are catching up to BMW's bread n butter 3-series fast. Besides selling to badge-whores and FOBs, BMW's options are getting mighty scarce.

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DarkOneForce - 10/8/2006 12:47:52 PM

+1 Boost

My figures were acurate, so please don't come with this BS huu.

Fact 1.1) Outside USA, Lexus sold ~90 000 cars vs.
~857 000 for BMW.

Fact 1.2) Minus USA and Europe, BMW sold vs ~206 500 vs.
~ 61 300 units for Lexus.

== The germans outsell Lexus in just about everywere except for the USA.

Fact 2) Japan, China, Middle East all domianted by the Germans (= Asia in german camp).

Why ?!
Because Lexus isn't seen as the real thing.

Fact 3) Lexus had about 306k vs. 266k for BMW in USA in 2005, not 200k as you claimed (even MB sells more than that).

Fact 4) Lexus isn't denting 3er sales in europe.
a) The only thing that sells here is the IS 220d. But it's less of a performer, and more of a polutor than the 320d. And it was stripped of several safety features.
b) The IS 250 is basicaly brutalised by the 3er for being an underpowerd, thirsty, woobly handling car.

As for sales figures, Toyota once estimated (in 2003/4) ~500 000+ in 2006 sales, now just 470 000 units.

So yes, projection were changed, for the worst not for the better.

And in 2007, guess how muany cars will BMW/MB/Audi sell ?!

Cause they won't stand still.

And don't give me this crapy Corolla, Camry argument ApexAlex.

Camry = not sold in europe.
Corolla = Skoda Octavia, Honda civic, Hyunday Elantra, Ford Focus and Chevrolet Cobalt competitor.

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huu76 - 10/8/2006 4:25:44 PM

+1 Boost

Boohoohoo.

Don't be upset that Europe is the only place German cars sell. They must be giving them away if 2 of the 4 major brands continue to lose money.

Bottom line, Toyota makes more cars and money than ALL of Germany combined.

Without Europe, BMW only sold about 400,000 on the rest of the planet. Without Europe, Toyota sold 8 million. Without Japan and USA, Toyota still sold about 1.5 million to the rest of the world.

Oooh, Toyota once restated their sales estimates. Guess what, BMW, not once, but twice saw a sales drop this year, in the first full year where all their new models are coming out.

The way things are going, Toyota won't just buy BMW, they'll buy Germany.

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huu76 - 10/8/2006 4:31:20 PM

+2 Boost

Hang on to that thought of "Outselling Lexus everywhere but the U.S. You really don't know how dumb you sound. Lexus up until this year has eithe not tried or only done a half ass job as selling outside N.America.

That's like saying the Germans have outsold Renault in the U.S. 15 years straight.

It's harder and harder to find something to cling onto isn't it?

Since you missed my earlier point, Toyota luxury models (future Lexus) have always outsold BMW and MB in Japan, omg, the best of Germany losing to a TOYOTA!!! LOL!!!

Better design some more V12 cars that no one will buy, and be sure to remember to lay on the "Germaness", after all, that's the only thing that matters when car buying. LOL

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huu76 - 10/8/2006 4:32:50 PM

+1 Boost

Car to provide some links to your "facts"? I'll dig up mine from previous forums to prove mine. You wouldn't be making things up now would you?

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huu76 - 10/8/2006 5:16:52 PM

+1 Boost

How is Asia in the German camp? Last I checked, Japan still bought Japanese, Korean still bought Korean.
China is a lost cause if you think you'll make any money there longterm.

Toyota/GM lost court battles to prevent Chinese makes from carboncopying their cars (why not copy German?). VW also saw it's profit cut in half in China. China counts for 1/3 of VW sales and yet they still lose money.
http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3899068

Toyota and Porsche have the strongest global brands.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12804535/

Oddly enough, GM is the sales leader in China.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/HF02Dh01.html
About half way down, you'll see this comment "Toyota cars were viewed by local consumers as pricey imports. But the company's reputation for reliable, fuel-efficient cars is increasingly appealing to economy-conscious Chinese drivers". Toyota came late and they already sell 25% of what GM sells. VW on the decline, Toyota on the rise. Honda already embedded.

In India, Toyota (5%) is working to catch SUZUKI who hold 50% market share.

So yeah, saying Asia is in Germany's camp is different than proving it. Germany doesn't own Japan, or India, never had China and appears to be getting booted out.

reply to this comment

DarkOneForce - 10/9/2006 12:03:38 PM

+1 Boost

Listen BSer Boy, I'm sick of your lame criticism.

First I don't give a damn about toyota, since almost none of their cars compete with the german premium brands.

In Japan, once upon of time people were patriotic and bought japanese only cars, both regulars and luxury ones.
But then the german/european camed, people with money were interested in esatblished brands, and the japanese car market begun to stagnate.
In the last 15 years, in a stagnating japanese auto market, only one segemnt developed, the premium luxury one. People started switching from their fancied up toyotas to european prestige brands, and with each passing year toyota saw its sales went down and down and down, at the expense, first and foremost of the german marques.
but, to mask this decline, and maybe get back some sales, toyota decided to drop the fancy toyotas for the fancy lexuses, but only for this to blow up in its face so far. Because these new lexuses, being more expensive are seling lower than their toyota predecesors. Even more, the premium/luxury segment was
given a push in japan, so, but much to toyotas despair
the germans/europeans were the ones profiting the most. In fact germans thus grew faster in japan than in germany and commanded higher prices too. Ofcourse there are circumstances.
So to sum up, the japanese automarket is divided in 2 parts:
- one big one, the average joe market; dominated by toyota, honda, nissan, witch is going down, and offers small margins;
- and a small one, the importer/premium/luxury market
dominated by europeans/germans witch is growing and offers good margins;

China's premium/luxury car market is also dominated by
the germans, and so is the reverse pyramid/middle east market.

Basicaly every premium/luxury market apart from the USA is dominated by the germans, regardless of toyotas
sales in those markets;

Asia, Europe, South America, Australia, Africa.
And while Europe stil represents a lot, it's China, Middle East and even Japan that have greater growth rates.

As for Lexus not being in some/many markets, that's not my fault. Lexus chose the USA, because it was easier. No taxes, no tax mazes, not much costumisation
necesary, SUV are enough for a period, and so on.

Other countries/regions are not so easy, that's what toyota/lexus is learning.

Considering, they still lack dealership networks, service, a known brand, and production facility, and many options to compete, the germans are save and advancing.

Still 90 000 units vs. 857 000 units outside USA in 2005 shows the nature of the gap between the 2. And Lexus won't reach the germans any time soon, if ever (but for that they'll have to change).

As for fuel efficiency, Lexus lost here just about every time, both on the petrol and the diesel front.

And your biased mind is missinterpreting my words.
I only said, that when it comes to premium/luxury car segments, chinese, japanese, rich folks from the middle east and so on, pref

reply to this comment

DarkOneForce - 10/9/2006 12:12:21 PM

+1 Boost

Oh, and without Europe they sold ~ 472 500 units.
The USA, Japan and China being the biggest markets outside Europe.

reply to this comment

DarkOneForce - 10/9/2006 12:13:38 PM

+1 Boost

And your biased mind is missinterpreting my words.
I only said, that when it comes to premium/luxury car segments, chinese, japanese, rich folks from the middle east and so on, prefer european/german cars.

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