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BMW, DaimlerChrysler say Chinese copying cars

Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but Germany's BMW AG says a Chinese car maker's SUV is too similar to one of its own.

The Munich-based automaker filed suit in Frankfurt this week against Chinese car maker Shuanghuan Automobile to prohibit it from selling its new model dubbed the CEO. BMW said the sport utility vehicle was a copy of its own X5 Read Article



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ICONICON - 9/12/2007 12:24:22 PM
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Hmmm...Houstonloopy you recently professed your love for Audi...Idiot, STFU and stop wasting our time with your rants.

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HantraHantra - 9/12/2007 12:30:48 PMView My AgentSpace
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Your English teacher is weeping.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/12/2007 12:41:59 PM
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imitation is truly the most sincere form of flattery.
welcome to the real world.

now be a good girl and go play with ricemaster.

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david989david989 - 9/12/2007 1:14:55 PM
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Chinese carmakers should copy Lexus. Even Lexus designs are reliable in terms of low drag ratings.

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KingerKinger - 9/13/2007 10:51:05 AM
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Pfft, Lexus have been copying the Germans their entire career, what a hypocritical statement.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/12/2007 12:43:05 PM
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even if they copy toyota/lexus, nobody would know as their designs are completely generic.

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Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 9/12/2007 6:48:38 PM
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You are really starting to worry me...you sound like someone who has been kidnapped, drugged and brainwashed into extolling all things Toyota. I'm begining to think that somewhere is some secret mountain lab Toyota engineers are creating more people like you and david666 or 989 or whatever!

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KingerKinger - 9/13/2007 10:53:04 AM
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Is houstoncootie actually for real? I'm starting to seriously doubt it.

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PlanBPlanB - 9/12/2007 12:34:08 PM
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I think BMW may have a case here. I just googled some pics of it and its profile and rear end is pure X5.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/12/2007 12:44:05 PM
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what are you talking about?

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StarStar - 9/12/2007 12:55:57 PM
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RiceMaster I hope you are joking ...seriously. Anybody that thinks that Mercedes and BMW are unreliable cars has serious issues next to the low IQ which is a given. Mercedes and BMW make cars that lats for generations quite the opposite of what the Japanese makers who still build cars that fall apart after a few months. Get a grip of reality.

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cericceric - 9/12/2007 12:46:02 PM
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The whole mainland China is a "big copy machine".
IPod, IPhone, ...., you name it.
Even some of their military weapons are copies of Russian's.
Hey, what do you expect from a communist country?


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david989david989 - 9/12/2007 1:16:52 PM
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If Lexus copied Mercedes, then how come Lexus are reliable and Mercedes are not? Lexus didn't copy Mercedes. But maybe Mercedes began copying Chinese or Korean carmakers and that is why they are producing shitboxes right now.

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ICONICON - 9/12/2007 1:57:00 PM
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I have to laugh that the first thing Lex/Toys fans(of course David we don't know what the hell you are,or care) always stand up and shout about is reliability,reliability,reliability.

Well you and Toyota have beat that into the ground. It's yesterdays news. Buick is even surpassing Lexus in that regard and the differential among all manufacturers is becoming insignificant.

If so what are you going to stand up and shout about being the best at next?
Design? Performance? Innovation? History? Lineage?

The silence is deafening.


zairnaimzairnaim - 9/12/2007 5:24:34 PM
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ICON that is in short term reliability in which most cars are about the same only in long term 4-10 years to lexus toyota and honda acura beat the others considerebly


ICONICON - 9/12/2007 6:57:55 PM
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I don't think that is necessarily so any more. My first 5 series I had for 200,000 miles and enjoyed every mile of it.
And no issues for reliability on that one. In fact, it still drove great when i sold it, and it wasn't hard to sell it!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/13/2007 10:38:47 AMView My AgentSpace
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How do you measure reliability? Electrical problems, or wear and tear?

Because Japanese cars just aren't built to the standard of German vehicles. Their interior parts fall off more easily, you can scratch into the vinyl in the door of our RX330 and it's just slowly coming apart.

I would say electrical reliability and physical reliability are equally important; that means that European and Japanese manufacturers are equally reliable.


mmeeccmmeecc - 9/12/2007 1:52:33 PM
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Seriously, you are really annoying with your reliability issues. I agree that cars need to be reliable, but there are also other factors to look at. The ONLY thing you Lexus fans have to hang on to is reliability and your hangin' on to it as if your life depended on it. German luxury cars are reliable enough these days and in addition, offer more driving pleasure, prestige "perception" , and overall satisfaction than the japanese (IMO). If you plan on driving your Lexus for 523 million kms, than go ahead get a Lexus. If you are like most people and plan on putting a maximum of 130 000 kms on a car, than ALL german luxury cars will be reliable. Most discussions on this site are about relatively new cars and 2008 models are pretty reliable.

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AirlinerAirliner - 9/12/2007 2:31:19 PM
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You know that I-6 engine that Toyota has been building for decades and has placed in a wide variety of vehicles from Supras to Land Cruisers?? It’s a modification from the original engine that they built. Why you ask? Because Toyota lost a lawsuit to BMW in the late 70’s when BMW claimed that their engine had been copied. Wait, it gets better… Toyota engineers testified that there were very coincidental similarities between their engine and BMW’s. Funny huh? Both companies still build their version of this engine to this day.

That being said, folks have no worries… Toyota’s title as the best ‘Copy Cats’ in the industry isn’t about to get knocked off by some Chinese consortium that isn’t original enough to make their product look slightly different than their model (goal). Toyota is the best ‘Copy Cat’ in the industry and they have the numbers to prove it.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/13/2007 10:41:02 AMView My AgentSpace
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"I don't where you get these horror stories on what gives you the ideal Lexus will copy anything thats horrible German."

Toyota took the chassis of the W124 S-Class, modified it and called it the Lexus LS400. Is that copying enough for you?


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/13/2007 10:42:23 AMView My AgentSpace
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And Lexus, quietest car? Nope. The Audi A8 is officially better-insulated than the Lexus LS460 for 2008. But that doesn't mean it also won't be a better sports sedan- it still is. So, basically, it does everything better than the Lexus at this point.


LexusLexus - 9/12/2007 6:34:14 PM
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I hope MB and BMW win this law suit because this copy thing is getting out of hand. They even have a car that look exactly like an Audi A4, I belief.

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StarStar - 9/12/2007 8:23:40 PM
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Can somebody arrange for david989 and houstoncutie2000 to meet and live happily for the rest of their life in some mental institution, so the rest of us can stick to talking about cars. Houston loves david obviously and I wish them to take their love for Lexus in a different place(the one I mentioned previously). All I'm asking from them is to promise they will never have children together because I am not ready to see the Antichrist being born yet. Agent 009 maybe you can arrange something for this kids...in a place where they don't have access to a computer.

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ICONICON - 9/12/2007 8:36:01 PM
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They are actually the same person...Houstoncutie2000 is David989 in drag..
double your pleasure double your DUMB


BillBill - 9/12/2007 8:24:38 PM
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If these things take place in Chinese courts, forget it.

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4wheelsnme4wheelsnme - 9/12/2007 10:34:42 PM
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Hey Houstonugly I´m so tired of your B*ll S**t! For starters Toyota (lexus?) just proved one thing entering Formula One...INCOMPETENCE! They are spending years(four or so) and millions of dollars and where are they? Nowhere in sight...On the other hand...BMW in its first year as a team at F1 is already in third place behind Mclaren and Ferrari......Lexus? Anybody home?

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LexusLexus - 9/12/2007 11:09:54 PM
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To bad you can't said same about their reliability, quality and their boring plastic interior design ;)

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ICONICON - 9/12/2007 11:45:21 PM
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Oh no! Its the Reliability contention again!

- There is that over utilized canard rearing itself again and again...next defense please


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/13/2007 10:44:25 AMView My AgentSpace
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They don't have any. It would be futile to keep "defending." Today is the day that I don't hate Lexus, oh no, but I hate the fans. JUST SHUT UP!!!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/13/2007 10:46:46 AMView My AgentSpace
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I love Honda. I hate Lexus fans, and disagree with all the fanboys that they are going to rule the Earth. Changes happen. 50 years ago, Toyota wasn't on top. 50 years from now, Toyota will not be on top.

And I agree with you on the IS-F-- 400hp, a bodykit and a fancy suspension does not a performance car make. You need so much more. Just ask BMW, Audi and Mercedes-Benz.

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EnnNorakEnnNorak - 9/13/2007 9:31:05 AM
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Since I drive a leased Audi A6 Quattro, I'll tell you what I think. First, Audi has come a long way since the days of all its electrical problems back in the eighties when I had 3 of them. Today's Audi is totally reliable and has the best inetriors among the 3 German "luxury" brands. Audi is the only German luxury make to offer a rust-free all-aluminum body (A8). Audi's superior Quattro AWD system uses a Torsen centre differential which Mercedes and BMW do not. The Torsen is a purely mechanical device that reacts instantly to slippage in winter conditions.

The Mercedes S-class has the best front seats on the planet with a unique fully independent seat cushion length adjustment. Mercedes should make these seats standard across their entire product range -- it would be a Mercedes signature. BMW fails to provide the required protective side strips that make it harder for lo-lifes to ding your doors in parking lots.

In-line 6 and H6 engines are the only 6-cylinder engines that are not inherently out of balance and BMW has the in-line 6. For V-6 engines, the proper angle between cylinder banks is 60 degrees and not 90 degrees as in the Mercedes or Audi. Inherently-out-of-balance 90-degree V-6 engines are made only because the factory can use the same tooling as that used to produce the 90-degree V-8 engines. This saves capital equipment expenditures but does not produce V-6 engines of optimum design. 90 degrees is correct for a V-8 engine.

BTW, the Audi A6, BMW 5 and 3, and most of all, the Mercedes C all suffer from inadequate rear leg room.

I'm now leaning toward replacing my A6 with a Subaru Tribeca as I will then have the small SUV that my wife wants, the H6 engine and an AWD system with a planetary type differential that I want, and a vehicle that combines the practicality of an SUV with the comfy ride of a fairly luxurious car. The middle model comes without the cramped third row seats (gives me extra luggage room) and is priced virtually the same as the 2008 C-class with similar equipment.

The 2008 C-calss is a good nimble city car however if you can tolerate the harsh ride, and the base model 4MATIC is priced considerably below the A6 Quattro.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/13/2007 10:50:30 AMView My AgentSpace
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"BTW, the Audi A6, BMW 5 and 3, and most of all, the Mercedes C all suffer from inadequate rear leg room."

If you think the A6 has a cramped rear seat then you may as well buy yourself a limousine. The car is 190in long, biggest in its class.

Why would you replace the A6 with a Tribeca? Wow, that is sad. Don't let your wife tell you what to buy- she can pick up a used CR-V somewhere if she needs a small SUV that much. The Tribeca is extremely bland, and your obsession with small details such as the H6 and door strips blinds you from seeing the big picture. The Subaru Tribeca is not a car you would enjoy owning, like you have the A6. If you are a real car enthusiast, buy yourself something rewarding.



EnnNorakEnnNorak - 9/13/2007 7:33:32 PM
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S4cabriofoxone, my wife drives the car 90 percent of the time (many bridge and tennis games all week. We take turns driving on road trips. I've sat in the back of my A6 and find the rear leg room inadequate. A friend's BMW 5 felt even worse. The Tribeca is actually a little shorter than my leased 2004 A6 (4865 mm for the Tribeca vs. 4878 mm for my A6) yet the Tribeca has no rear leg room problems. My Audi has high-speed low profile Pirellis as the original Michelins only lasted 40,000 km and Michelin stopped making that particular tire. The Tribeca front passenger seat has no height adjustment but is already at the right height for my comfortable entry without banging my head on the roof. BTW, I banged my head on the roof while trying to get into the front passenger seat of the top Buick Enclave model. I want the Tribeca for two reasons: a comfy car-like ride and lots of interior room for travel luggage. the tribeca has an H-6 engine unlike the Audi and Mercedes which both use an inherently-out-of-balance 90-degree V-6. I prefer the Torsen center differential on Audi's AWD system but the Tribeca does have a planetary gear type center differential. I also like the fact that the Tribeca's engine is normally aspirated instead of turbocharged like Subaru's 4-bangers. The middle model of the Tribeca is equipped exactly to my liking. The Tribeca is priced virtually identical to the 2008 base C-class 4MATIC and both are a lot cheaper than the A6. The Tribeca offers the best value for the money.
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