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BMW, GM: $400-600 million in losses for off-lease cars; Ford: $1 Billion

M35MT submitted on 7/31/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 1:28:59 PM

31 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.businessweek.com

Tag Links: BMW, GM, Ford

BMW has started offering loans at 3.

9% to help sell 2005 models coming off lease.

BMW took nearly a $400 million charge for losses on off-lease cars, mostly SUVs in the U.S.

GM and Ford (F) have warned that losses from their leasing portfolios will cost them. Ford has said that its usually profitable lending division will lose money this year; GM has hinted that it faces the same issue. Over the next 18 months, GM will incur $600 million in lease-related costs and Ford $1 billion, predicts JPMorgan Chase (JPM)analyst Himanshu Patel. Lehman Brothers (LEH) analyst Brian Johnson thinks their lending arms will write down $1.1 billion and $1.5 billion, respectively. (GM's corporate profits are less exposed than Ford's because its GMAC lending arm, which is 51% owned by Cerberus Capital Management, shares some of the car lease risk.)


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BMW, GM: $400-600 million in losses for off-lease cars; Ford: $1 Billion

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M35MT

— M35MT (View Profile)


User Comments

AMiodynski

Serves them right for all trying to buy their customers with stupid residual values !!!

— AMiodynski (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 1:56:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

enthusiastx11

have you recently leased a bmw dumbass?

go ahead and try to get a 3-series for $399. it's a car that doesn't exist and doesn't include tax. i'm paying $650 for my 335i sedan and i had 3 dealers competing for my business.

let us know when you have a clue.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 7:05:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Chip

Yep, me too. My 335i coupe fully loaded is $636.00 per month for 36 months with a nice size down payment and 15,000 miles a year. Those $400 a month leases are for a 328i sedan with the premium package and auto transmission, nothing more. And thats before a $2500 down payment, security fee, destination, etc. Add in any options and that lease payment begins to rise quickly.


— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 9:13:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

JRobUSC

yeah, that $399 is just CRAZY low, right? I mean, it's INSANE! Incidentally that's the same lease payment MB is running on the new C-class, and it's higher than Audi is running on the outgoing A4.

But it's absolutely NUTS... to you... since it's BMW... and you're a troll.

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 10:09:26 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

BMW4me4ever

staar - you are an idiot. did you not read the article? It was talking about SUV's and the negative impact that is happening to them across the market. I know , I know that would actually take too much time for you to actually read the article. BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, GM, Ford and everyone is taking a huge hit in the market. Heck Chrysler is pulling out of the leasing business all together, along with Wells Fargo bank & many others to follow.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 2:41:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Dutchman

All true points however the US consumer will still say if I can lease an Audi for 500 bucks a month or a BMW for 450 a month they get the cheaper payment. Then at the end they can't believe the car is only worth half what the payoff is and they say what a piece of junk it doesn't hold it's value. Maybe next time ill get the Mercedes they at least hold they're value. Guess what they don't!

— Dutchman (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 2:47:26 PM | | Votes: 1   

truthpursuit

Lexus lowered its residuals several years ago,and still outsold everybody.Lexus sells with quality and fair pricing,but with the less buyers in the market everybody's offering incentives.

— truthpursuit (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 3:02:59 PM | | Votes: -7   

bmwdrvr

Actually the A4 is CHEAPER TO LEASE THAN THE 3 SERIES.....IGNORRANT COMMENTS ARE FUNNY....THEY HAVE NO GROUNDS.....why not do some research prior to commenting....its not that hard just go to Audis website....2nd point everyone offers lease deals EVERYONE

— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 3:26:40 PM | | Votes: 1   

BMW4me4ever

truth - lexus has great lease deals going also. Next time do a little research before you make statements as such. Also, isnt lexus down 14% ytd.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 5:53:04 PM | | Votes: 1   

blackbr

Frequent leaser here... maybe I ought to start saving for a financing downpayment.

— blackbr (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 3:15:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

bigTYME

Same thing for me. Last car we bought was a '94 Accord, and that was in '94. Our family has gone through at least 30 leases within the last 10 years and we havn't seen a mechanic since. Kind of sucks to think about purchasing and taking extra care of your car, not that I don't take care of my car, but you know accidents happen.

— bigTYME (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 5:08:54 PM | | Votes: 1   

M35MT

Most of the time, you are correct. However, sometimes a 2-3 year old car is worth "too much" and already has 40-50k on it. The ususal suspects here are BMW, Honda and Lexus.

— M35MT (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 4:24:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

thecar

there's a reason why ppl sold the car after a short while
i.e. frame damage =) , lemon , defects

buying used means trading warranty and peace of mind for OTC upfront costs. It is a gamble that may costs u.

— thecar (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 4:36:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

0to60

you can buy certified pre owned. When I purchased used, thats what I did. YOu typically pay a little more but I feel its worth it. I stull haggle the hell out of them.

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 6:50:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Bored

@ the new resident troll, amazinBimmer,

Looks like it's time for you to pick up an '05 BMW X5 to help them out.

And since you have such hatred for "FWD" Audi/VW, how do you justify BMW owning Mini?

— Bored (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 4:14:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

SVXXX

4-cylinder Audis are in higher demand then they were before!

— SVXXX (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 5:52:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

huu76

bmw4wannabes,
Lexus may be down, but they're still charing 8.5% financing. Brother's friend just bought an ES350. $5000 trade-in, $5000k down, 8.5% financing.

Lexus knows ppl willing to pay will be longterm customers, immune to economic downturn, unlike people who's parents can nolonger afford to lease them a 1-series.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 6:15:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

enthusiastx11

economy is soft. lexus sales are down 30% in june. why? lexus buyers are value shoppers and they tighten up in downturn.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 7:07:15 PM | | Votes: 2   

enthusiastx11

why is this a surprise?

ALL SUVS. yes, ALL. mercedes, bmw, lexus, gmc, ford, etc. have lost massive value.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/31/2008 7:03:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Talhakk

Hi I am new to this site, I have been reading this regularly for almost 2 years now. This is a wonderful site, I finally felt the need to start commenting.
Leasing will always jip you for a couple of thousand dollars over financing, no matter if you want to change cars every 3 years or not. I want to know if anyone disagrees with this. I am currently a junior at the Cox School of Business at SMU in Dallas, TX. We have been doing this for the past 2 lectures in one my summer business classes, the leasing vs buying calculations, for different model cars. We found the average loss to be around 3-5 grand on everything from Honda Civics to BMW 5 series

— Talhakk (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 12:15:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Chip

Hi Talhakk, welcome to the community.

The only thing I can say is common knowledge. Lease if you want to get a new car every few years or want cheaper payments, buy if you plan on keeping the vehicle for longer than 5+ years or want the most return on your investment.

Either way, cars depreciate like crazy, and you're gonna lose some money.

I prefer leasing simply for the fact that I know exactly what I'm spending on the 3 years I have the car and because as an automobile junkie, I like to hop into a new one as much as possible, which also keeps maintaining them easy since they're always newer vehicles. And it's nice always having a cool new ride.

— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 12:35:17 AM | | Votes: 2   

Talhakk

And I agree, even buying 2 years old is a much better use of your hard earned money.

— Talhakk (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 12:24:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Talhakk

Thanks Chip,

I appreciate your response, but I guess what I meant was, even if you want a newer car every 3 years, you can still get more for your car even as a trade in as opposed to what the dealer calculates are depreciation on your leased car. The monthly payments will be higher, but nowadays alot of dealers do 0% APR for 5 years and even BMW is doing 0.9% per year right now. So you can infact get a 60month loan, and the payments will be maybe 15-20% higher than the lease. You still sell the car after 36 months, you don't keep it for all 60. And after 36 months of financing and then selling it, you save about 5k financing a 2008 535i as opposed to leasing it. It a seemingly higher monthly payment, but you come out on top, by far, even at just 36 months.

— Talhakk (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 2:15:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

JRobUSC

I disagree. The difference between buying and leasing that 5-Series is about $150-200/mo (assuming 36 month lease and a 60 month buy). Sometimes the difference is even larger, the higher the MSRP the bigger the difference usually is. If you plan on getting out of it after three years, you spent $5400-7200 more to buy the car during that timeframe versus leasing it. When you trade the car in after three years, realistically you're just going to break even with what you owe. Trade it in prior and you'll be negative, trade around the four year mark and you'll be positive. If you sell the car you can recoup a couple grand. But the only way you're really going to make your money back is to keep the car until it's paid off, so that extra $5400-7200 you spent over the first three years netted you zero return. Meanwhile, the guy who leased not only paid $5400-7200 less than you for the first 36 months, but once the lease was done he handed the car back in and leased another brand new one for less than you're still paying for your three year old one that is almost out of warranty. Granted at the end of the 5 years you'll have a vehicle worth probably $11-15k, but you were also out of warranty and paying for maintenance and repairs for the last year or two, you were driving an old car while the guy leasing was already almost done with his second brand new one, and his payments were lower for five full years (meaning he spent $9000-12000 less).

Bottom line, leasing is usually advantageous unless you're going to keep a car until the wheels fall off.

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 10:28:38 AM | | Votes: 2   

huu76

enthusiast,
If Lexus was worried about moving inventory, they'd follow BMW down the low rate and discounting strategy, but Lexus doesn't need to because their customer don't need mommy and daddy to lease their car for them.

Look at this compared to what my bro's friend had to pay for his Lexus.
http://www.bmw.ca/content/springSale/springSale_fs.asp?lang=en
2% rates or avg $5000 off and this is in Canada where our economy is better off.

Lexus knows that if consumers want quality, they'll pay for it. If they can't afford it, they'll just have to settle for some econobox BMW.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 11:30:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

JRobUSC

I knew it. Staar and huu are the same person. You can drop the act now and just post under one name, thre's no way God made two people that stupid.

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 12:38:30 PM | | Votes: 2   

mpls

Well, BMW are moving into really mass econ box, their joint development with Fiat will produce the smal Isetta (not sure what the Fiat one will be called). As several people have said, BMW are trying to be evrything to evryone.. and it really cheapens the brand.. It's just as common as a Ford. so what the point of paying a premium for just another mass market name..?

— mpls (View Profile)

Posted on 8/1/2008 5:14:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

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