BMW launches new super-efficient 316d

— theoptimisticpessimist:

| Lets not spin the facts again.

You're lying for the 1st time, suggesting I spin the data.


| While the CO2 emission maybe better the Fuel economy is not

You're lying for the 2nd time.


| Prius combind fuel economy 50 mpg
| 316d combind fuel economy 52.3 mpg

You're lying for the 3rd time.

Toyota Prius III combined European cycle fuel economy is 3,9 l/100km = 60,3 mpg U.S [1]
Previous generation Toyota Prius II European cycle fuel economy is 23,3 km/l = 4,3 l/100km = 54,7 mpg U.S [2]

Both Toyota Prius generations, including the 2004 one, are more fuel efficient than the 2009/2010 BMW 316d.


| That makes the BMW more fuel efficient.

You're lying for the 4th time.


| The BMW has something the Prius does not have;
| a fun driving Experience.

You're lying for the 5th time.

"But this third generation vehicle, fitted with a larger 1.8-liter engine producing a net 134 HP is actually pretty fun to drive, at least when equipped with the optional 17-inch wheels." [3]

-----
Conclusions:

1. In a very short comment, you lied 5 times promoting a German car. It simply means you lie all the time, on any occasion, misleading people, cheating them and providing them with false data to promote German cars.

I never suspected German cars salespeople to be lying scumbags to such extent.

2. The site Motorathority.com provides falsified information targeted to depreciate Toyota technology and promote BMW technology. Therefore they are simply a cheating marketing arm disguised as journalists and bloggers, sponsored by the BMW. The author of the post quoted, Ralph Hanson, is guilty of sponsored deceit.

[1] http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/specs.aspx (mouse over on the "Verbrauch kombiniert" spec)
[2] http://www.toyota.dk/cars/new_cars/prius/fullspecs.aspx
[3] http://jalopnik.com/5182950/2010-toyota-prius-first-drive

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 9:49:55 PM | | Votes: 2   

MrBratwurst-

I resent be called a Liar, Particularly when I am not.

1. you did spin the data you left out MPG and clamed Prius was more efficient. Any mention of efficiency without MPG IS SPIN!

2. I got the Prius numbers directly from Toyota site, so they are lying or you are.

3. Toyota website state the EPA mileage as 51 city 48 highway and 50 combined

4. According to Toyota website YOU'RE LYING. Find my on Toyota U.S website any of those fictional number you have.
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html

5. Do you really thing a Prius is more fund to drive than a BMW. Since the 316d is a new model a give you a few review on the 3er

Car and Driver on the 3er ““What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury.”

Edmunds on the 335d “Inside the diesel's cabin are the familiar instruments, seats, steering wheel and sense of quality that you associate with a 3 Series. You really do get what you pay for here”

Road and Track on the 335d “Telepathic steering and typically perfect BMW suspension tuning allowed the 335d to be tossed around like, well, a sports sedan”


You’re links

ttp://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/specs.aspx (mouse over on the "Verbrauch kombiniert" spec) TOYOTA PAGE ERROR.

http://www.toyota.dk/cars/new_cars/prius/fullspecs.aspx NOT US NUMBERS


http://jalopnik.com/5182950/2010-toyota-prius-first-drive

A few quotes for Jalopnik.com on that article

“You already know the 2010 Toyota Prius gets 50 MPG combined fuel economy, making it the most fuel-efficient car for sale in the U.S. But, did you know it returns 26.6 MPG at 102 MPH?”

“Full Disclosure: Toyota wanted me to drive the new Prius so badly they flew me out and put me up in an eco-friendly hotel to make sure I wrote about it. Also, they plied me with wine. I'm not a huge fan of California wine”.

“The result is a car that drives less like a rolling tub of Jello and more like you think a mid-size hatchback”

This is most apparent when transitioning from maintenance to wide-open throttle mid-corner, somewhat spoiling the driver's ability to fully exploit the Prius's chassis. Also calling and end to the fun is an over eager stability control system that can't be fully defeated. But the fact that we're complaining about artificial limitations placed on the outright ability of a car that's historically been utterly boring, if not completely lacking in driving dynamics of any sort, is probably the best compliment we can give it.”

“While the new Prius remains far from the top of our Best Driving Cars list, it's also now far from the bottom, where it used to reside.”

Your resouces

Who is misleading people, who is providing false data, who is lying now?

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 10:41:37 PM | | Votes: -1   

theoptimisticpessimist:
By comparing oranges (EPA test cycles) to apples (EU test cycles) and being serious about it you've demonstrated enough of your lack of intelligence.

The EPA fuel economy rating for the 316d is not available due to the obvious fact that the 316d is not sold in the USA. The only apple-to-apple comparison can therefore only be made with the EU ratings of the two cars, which MrBratwurst rightfully quoted.

— FanboyOfTheTruth (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 11:12:14 PM | | Votes: 5   

This is how the loser and lying scumbag "theoptimisticpessimist" (who has no balls to say "I apologize" and can only falsify data further on) acts.

2010 Toyota Prius EPA estimate: 50mpg US [1]
2010 Toyota Prius European NECD estimate: 3,9 l/100km = 60.3mpg US [2]
BMW 316d European NECD estimate: 52.3mpg US

American EPA test and European NECD test are two completely different procedures. The European one overestimates fuel economy for any car, the American EPA tends to be rather accurate.

The liar and loser "theoptimisticpessimist" knows that the Toyota Prius beats the BMW 316d by 9 mpg in the European NEDC fuel economy test (and is also faster than the BMW) so he intentionally quoted American EPA fuel economy test for the Prius and compares it with the European NECD for the BMW to create false and misleading perception that BMW 316d is more efficient. This is blatant manipulation done on purpose.


theoptimisticpessimist, leave this site now. If you fail to do so, I will be posting the link to your falsification and manipulation done in this thread under any post you'll ever write on this site. I will also provide an explanation on how you falsify data in an effort to promote the BMW (and possibly any German car) and make Toyota products look bad.

I have never suspected BMW hires such losers and liars to create a marketing spin for them. Seriously desperate they have to be.


[1] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2010&make=Toyota&model=Prius&hiddenField=Findacar
[2] http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/specs.aspx (mouse over the fuel economy)
[3] http://www.motorauthority.com/bmw-launches-new-efficient-316d-es-for-europe.html

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 7:17:28 AM | | Votes: 2   

Haha, what do you expect from a lowly BMW marketroid/salesman, their whole corporate philosophy is based on a lie! The Ultimate Driving Machine? yeah, ok... never knew muted/doughey steering, piano on the roof plowing and handling with calibrated cheap suspensions makes a vehicle the ultimate in anything... perhaps the Ultimate Swindle Machine?

BMWs are for new money fobs and 30k millionaires who couldn't tell the difference between RWD and CrookedWheelDrive. All they bring when they go into a BMW showroom is their delusional fantasies of wealth and Roundel koolaid glasses.

You could sit in a bimmer for 5 seconds and realize it's a cheaply made POS, but I guess when you've got "driving a bimmer will make you better lookin' and rich" syndrome fried into you're brain, the "informed decision maker" side of your brain shuts down.

It's not surprising to see BMWs have the highest profit margins per vehicles, even higher than Tata Nano I'll bet, but after all, what you're buying into is their unwarranted famous mantra and a poorly put together quality control nightmare.

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 1:25:05 PM | | Votes: 2   

First off why should I apologize, I haven’t resorted to petty name calling. Second, Your facts are usually skewed to your favor.

Guess what we are both wrong. On closer examination of the facts this is based on information from the British press, thus imperial gallons.

The combined VCA data; Prius 65.7 mpg BMW 316d ES 62.8 mpg

A difference of 2.9 mpg imperial or 3.48 mpg U.S Congratulation the Prius wins, barely.

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=10982
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/about/news/0,,1156___co-181254100,00.html


I didn’t quote U.S. EPA number on the 316d ES because they don’t exist. This car is not coming to the U.S. and has not been tested by the EPA.

On fun to drive;

“The new BMW 316d ES Saloon sets a new benchmark in the premium sector with its heightened blend of high economy, low emissions yet rewarding driving experience.”

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/06/25/467159.html

On the prius-
“As for the drive itself, it's improved. The steering now has a meaningful weighting that helps place the car better and, thanks to a relocated rear torsion beam suspension, the Prius boasts better stability.
This means more grip, but not much else. The Toyota lacks the athleticism and engagement of rivals such as the class-leading Ford Focus and Volkswagen Golf, but its dynamic tweaks are a significant step forward over the old car.
http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/toyota/prius/30861/5
Here are a few other items the British press mentioned.

“The BMW 316d ES Saloon comes as standard with the same specification as the current What Car? Green Car of the Year Executive Car category winner,”

http://www.automobilesreview.com/auto-news/bmw-316d-es-saloon/15408/

” BMW’s biggest selling model range, the 3 Series, has been voted the most reliable car in a survey of Britain’s vehicle leasing companies. The poll, which covered the reliability history of nearly 900,000 vehicles in 2008, also revealed that BMW was the most reliable manufacturer overall.”

http://www.automobilesreview.com/auto-news/bmw-3-series-voted-most-reliable-car-in-the-uk/6597/

“The site Motorathority.com provides falsified information targeted to depreciate Toyota technology and promote BMW technology. Therefore they are simply a cheating marketing arm disguised as journalists and bloggers, sponsored by the BMW.”

Where is your evidence to prove that, oh wait that’s opinion.

“Leave this site now”

Be an adult. This is not your website, this is not your blog, and it not a playground that you bully (and by the way I been here longer than you have). By the way, I will be posting the links to your falsification and manipulation done in this thread under any post you'll ever write on this site. I will also provide an explanation on how you falsify data in an effort to promote the Toyota and Lexus(and possibly any Japanese cars) and make BMW and German products look bad.

I think that we both can

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 3:07:58 PM | | Votes: -1   

— sector:

| Haha, what do you expect from a lowly BMW marketroid/salesman,
| their whole corporate philosophy is based on a lie!

True. The lowly BMW marketoid/salesman has just struck back. This time he came up with a link pointing to 2004 Toyota Prius, this one:

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=10982

and compares it with the 2009 BMW 316d that has just been released to make the BMW look "not that bad". He failes to mention that there is the new Prius already on sale in Europe. He also lies that "we both were wrong" (I wasn't even for a second) to make his falsifications look less blatant.

All these desperate efforts without a single apology for the manipulation.

Scary what BMW promoters do. They will sell you every shit with a straight face.


| You could sit in a bimmer for 5 seconds and realize
| it's a cheaply made POS, but I guess when you've got
| "driving a bimmer will make you better lookin' and rich"
| syndrome fried into you're brain, the "informed decision
| maker" side of your brain shuts down.

Well, its branding. I never suspected it plays such massive role cause I usually assess on merits but it apparently does. Customers evaluation is flawed by default and large number of them are victims of hopeless "Keeping up with the Joneses" competition.

If you look at BMW cars values, at prices they command for loaded vehices, the purchase becomes pure nonsense. It's just not worth it, not even remotely.

But since there is a false perception that buying such overpriced imported goods make you "win", the business spins.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door

Avoid Buying Status Objects or Leading a Status Lifestyle

"Buying expensive imported vehicles is poor value and you will constantly need to buy the newest model. Buying status objects such as branded consumer goods is a never-ending cycle of depreciating assets. Living in a status neighbourhood is not only poor value, but you will feel the need to keep buying status objects to keep up with your neighbours, who are mostly UAWs."

UAW = Under Accumulator of Wealth, a person who spends more he/she earns.


| It's not surprising to see BMWs have the highest
| profit margins per vehicles

These profits come from people thinking its worth paying too much for too little as it helps them shine in front of their neighbours.

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 5:26:43 PM | | Votes: 2   

Mcbrat-

Lighten up Francis

Hey I was wrong and I see you’re still on with the childish insults.

The VCA data base does not list the new Prius

Hey they don’t list the 2009(in Britain) by the way Toyota list it as 72.4 (you should have eaten my lunch on that one)

http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?edname=PS3_ModelDiscovery&zone=Zone%20NG%20Prius&navRoot=toyota_1024_root



| You could sit in a bimmer for 5 seconds and realize
| it's a cheaply made POS,

Find me one review that says that, opinion not fact. Have you ever driven a BMW? Is every car editor out there conspiring against the rest of the carmakers?

“If you look at BMW cars values, at prices they command for loaded vehices, the purchase becomes pure nonsense. It's just not worth it, not even remotely.”

Once again you opinion.



But since there is a false perception that buying such overpriced imported goods make you "win", the business spins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door

Avoid Buying Status Objects or Leading a Status Lifestyle

Yes no rich person has ever bought a BMW. You’re using a link on a “How to get Rich book” as a demographic on luxury car buyers, please.


| It's not surprising to see BMWs have the highest
| profit margins per vehicles

Well you’re wrong it’s Porsche by a mile. BMW is second and guess what Toyota is third

Porsche $28,247
BMW $ 3,207
Toyota $ 2,182

http://www.automobile.com/porsche-posts-28247-average-profit-per-vehicle.html


These profits come from people thinking its worth paying too much for too little as it helps them shine in front of their neighbors.

So if you think this about BMW do believe that for every other luxury maker M/B Audi, Lexus. None of these cars are worth the money and everybody that drives them is a poser? Should we all just drive Hunyadi’s? If nobody should drive these cars why bother commenting on them?

Nice to see you’ve found a friend with the “The Troll” Sector.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 6:52:54 PM | | Votes: -2   

Hey man I'm no troll, I just tell it like it is :)

is argument is pointless anyways...

Buy a hybrid if you care about environment and health, want to save money on gas and be part of the solution toward energy independence.

Buy diesel if want to save money on gas but don't give two shits about environment and public health (diesel engine exhaust contains a number of a potent carcinogens–particulate responsible for many birth defects and other health problems, hence, banned in 5 states)

http://www.bmwblog.com/2007/08/24/mercedes-diesel-gets-banned-in-three-more-states/

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 10:40:36 PM | | Votes: 1   

"Mercedes ML320 CDI banned in some states. Is BMW next?"

http://www.bmwblog.com/2007/08/10/mercedes-ml320-cdi-banned-in-some-state-bmw-next/

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 10:44:05 PM | | Votes: 1   

From Edmunds June 10 update of their Long Term Road Test Jetta TDI:

"Our VW Jetta TDI is averaging 35 mpg - had a tank best of 43 mpg. People should be all over this Jetta instead of the Prius or other hybrids. The extra complexity, cost and the (before and after sale) overall impact on the environment should be working against hybrids - especially considering the crowd who's buying them. Clean diesel cars like the 2009 VW Jetta TDI ought to be green darlings instead of hybrids." - Brian Moody, Automotive Editor

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/Vehicles/2009-volkswagen-jetta-tdi/

---

From Issue 47 of Winding Road magazine:

"12,680 miles Acclaimed automotive journalist and Winding Road godfather David E. Davis, Jr., drives the Jetta from Ann Arbor to Florida and back with his wife. '39 miles per gallon for the last 526 miles—this is a record in the Davis's 31 years of traveling in test cars." After returning from the trip, Davis writes, 'I'd recommend this car to anyone who's looking for an economical, comfortable, well-appointed family sedan that goes like hell.'"

http://wrmag.nextautos.com/issue/47

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 3:02:06 AM | | Votes: 0   

The Prius and the BMW are not in the same class and are not cross shopped the 316d competes with the Audi A4 TDI and the Mecedes Benz C 220d.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 7:14:36 PM | | Votes: -3   

The quotes above show that the Jetta TDI gets great fuel economy and that the car is actually fun to drive. Car and Driver tested the new TDI and found that it does 0 to 60 in 8.1s and they tested the new Prius and found that it does 0 to 60 in 10s. I guess if they wanted to, VW could put a smaller diesel in the TDI so that it's as slow as the Prius and the fuel economy would no doubt improve a lot too.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/vw_audi_central/2009_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_short_take_road_test

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/157156/2166053/version/1/file/2010-toyota-prius-test-sheet.pdf

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/26/2009 10:43:26 AM | | Votes: 1   

TurboSpyder I still don't understand. Prius is consistently getting around 50mpg, and the Jetta TDI is at best getting 43mpg (avg 35mpg).

0-60 time for the 2010 prius is around 10 seconds, I would gladly sacrifice 2 seconds for the extra 15mpg.

— monkeyrun (View Profile)

Posted on 6/26/2009 4:38:02 PM | | Votes: 1   

The big advantage that the Prius has is that it shuts the engine down at stop lights. My understanding is that upcoming VWs will also get an auto stop/start function so that should improve their city mileage a lot.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/09/sixth-gen-vw-golf-to-get-stop-start-and-bluemotion-badge/

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/26/2009 8:10:47 PM | | Votes: 1   

So what is it about the Prius that in your opinion makes it:
FUCKING HIDIOUS?

Wow, that kinda sounds like a 12 year-old kid description of a Prius.

— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 6/26/2009 10:01:16 AM | | Votes: 0