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BMW testing cars with solar panels
As manufacturers seek ways to create more efficient cars without compromising power or driveability, eyes are increasingly turning to new technologies and ideas.

BMW is looking to electricity generated by exhaust gas heat and solar power to take the electrical load off the engine and thereby improve efficiency and reduce emissions.

In fact, BMW has found that re-purposing the otherwise wasted exhaust heat to power a thermoelectric generator generating up to 1kW could be used to reduce real-world fuel consumption by as much as 5%. Read Article



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answeranswer - 5/15/2008 11:53:42 AMView My AgentSpace
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This is cool.

I liked the solar panel sunroof that Audi used to have (do they still?) to power the interior fan when the car was off.

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NeverfollowNeverfollow - 5/15/2008 1:20:38 PM
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Yes, Audi still uses the solar sunroof as an option on A8 series, and V8 and V10 engined A6 series cars. I would like to see them offer the feature on Q7 for the same purpose. Maybe replace that third panel all the way in back would be a good idea. Also, replace the nearly worthless sunroof in the A5/S5 with a solar unit would be a better use of space since they can't make the car without the sunroof from what I understand anyway.


kthorkthor - 5/15/2008 2:18:14 PM
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Anyway, this is about cutting edge innovation and technology by BMW for real performance and effiency gains, not Audi's sunroof fan. BMW's pursuit of comprehensive technological advancement is impressive and exciting. This is a great teaser article worth reading for a taste of what they are working on.


answeranswer - 5/15/2008 4:25:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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Wow.

No need to be a prick.

Is a comment about Audi an automatic knock against BMW?

Grow up little man. Grow up.


kthorkthor - 5/15/2008 9:55:59 PM
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Name calling - the argument of the weak.


answeranswer - 5/15/2008 10:29:27 PMView My AgentSpace
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Um, I think starting an argument for no reason is pretty "weak".

My post was relevant, not derogatory to your precious BMW in the slightest, and certainly not mean sprited.

There is a difference between name calling as you put it, and using the correct word as an accurate discriptor of something or someone.

With that said, you definately are a prick.


993Turbo993Turbo - 5/16/2008 8:03:52 AM
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Audi has had this for years.


BremboBrembo - 5/15/2008 11:58:42 AM
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Making the whole roof as solar panel would be great.

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BremboBrembo - 5/15/2008 12:02:47 PM
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Also... This for the engineers out there. Solar panel collects heat from the sun. Why can't the panel collect heat from the exhaust instead of using water add to the car?

I don't know therefore I ask.


AdmiralT20AdmiralT20 - 5/15/2008 1:12:55 PM
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Brembo,

There are basically two ways you achieve this:
1. Semiconductors. If you use semiconductors, you have a certain operational temperature window- just like everything electronics. If the temperature gets rather too high, you may end up with a damaged system. Thus the semiconductor approach is favourable to temperature regimes that can be managed.
2. Furnace: this is best suited for systems that have high operating ambient temperature. You collect the heat to heat up a fluid that in turn is used to drive a turbine.

With technology we have increased the operational windows of semiconductors but they still are not close to the operational window of the furnace based solar power system.
The key will be to find the sweet spot to adopt the most efficient technology which if my memory serves me right is semiconductor-based solar panels.


BremboBrembo - 5/15/2008 2:21:06 PM
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Interesting.

To avoid damage from over heating, can't the energy be transfer elsewhere in the car to store like a battery.


AutoEngAutoEng - 5/15/2008 3:12:11 PM
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Brembo,

The reason that conventional solar panels are not used in the way you stated is because solar panels do not convert heat into electricity at all.

Solar panels convert light energy into electrical energy (heat given off is wasted energy and part of the inefficiency of a photovoltaic solar panels).

Put as simply as possible the basic idea behind conventional photovoltaics is that light (photons) excite atoms in a thin semiconductor layer. When atoms are excited sufficiently by these incoming photons, some of their electrons "break away" from their host atom and begin to move within the semiconductor. This flow of electrons is what we harness as electrical current.

The reason manufacturers have not yet used photovoltaics (PV's) to cover the roof of cars is 2 fold.

1) Conventional PV's are very inefficient. Even the best available tech is still only able to convert less than 30% of the available solar energy into usable electricity.

2) Conventional PV's are very expensive. It would cost the manufacturer hundreds if not thousands of dollars per car to outfit the entire roof with solar panels.

The gain in efficiency would be very marginal and given the high cost, the idea is neither feasible nor practical with current technology. The best PV's would be able to provide power for a small fan or to trickle charge the vehicles battery or to run some low power accessories. Running the car on solar power is out of the question. You would need hundreds or thousands of square feet of PV's in direct sunlight to provide the power required to actually drive a normal vehicle.


BremboBrembo - 5/15/2008 8:27:14 PM
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Thanks, I just got smarter in this forum.


sholemonsholemon - 5/15/2008 12:11:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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solar panels generate energy from light, not heat.

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AdmiralT20AdmiralT20 - 5/15/2008 1:16:29 PM
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Actually it is the radiation.


BremboBrembo - 5/15/2008 2:19:11 PM
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YEah, but isn't heat the transfer of energy?




AdmiralT20AdmiralT20 - 5/15/2008 3:05:05 PM
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Sholeman,

As Brembo just mentioned, heat is a form of energy transfer.
There are basically three methods of transferring heat: Conduction, Convection, and Radiation.


MiltonMilton - 5/15/2008 12:13:02 PM
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Nice effort ....

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SpectatorSpectator - 5/15/2008 3:24:07 PM
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A thermolectric genny is a very cool idea. Yet another way to use exhaust gasses. Heat = Energy.

Combine that with a twin vein turbo and your would definatly be "using the whole buffalo". Anytime you can use waste to produce more power or energy...well that is a +1 in my book.

Now if they could only find a way to put a turbine engine in a car reasonably....hmmm

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auto001auto001 - 5/15/2008 9:10:25 PM
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Since BMW is most conscientious about its brand imaging (after all they sell you a "lifestyle" now, not just a car), its continued efforts to look "hip" and "cool" is a must. "Environmentally friendly" is the latest buzz word now, and all efforts to be appear "with the program" is imperative.

True effort/investment isn't really there of course, as witnessed by this latest half-assed example - producing a mere 1kw of energy, which would be negated anyway, by the extra weight of the device to the vehicle. To them the "appearance and perception" of contribution is all that is needed to ride the latest bandwagon and to remain "in the game".

The irony is that, it's the honest, brand image neutral companies like Honda, Toyota even GM who are investing heavily to make viable, real world advancements in hybrid and fuel cell technologies.

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kthorkthor - 5/15/2008 10:01:12 PM
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How exactly are you privy to the investment levels of these companies and their motivations. Let me answer for you, you aren't.

"brand image neutral" lol

Keep your inaccurate vitriolic spew to yourself.


KingerKinger - 5/16/2008 4:29:27 AM
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Many of BMW's innovations have been highly beneficial, this isn't just some lame marketing fad, if there's efficient gains to be made here then BMW will go ahead with the technology, if not then they won't. At least their trying to help kerb their dependence on oil, the auto industry is under such huge pressure nowadays to be seen as green, BMW have managed to lower their CO2 emisions by more than any other manufacturer in the business so i don't think what their doing is h=just to be seen as "hip" and "cool", there's realy gains to be made here.


_43LE_43LE - 5/16/2008 12:37:46 PM
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I think that these panels will help provide more magic feel...I kid.

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huu76huu76 - 5/17/2008 4:11:01 PM
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I remember Toyota copying BMW's solar panel idea with the A-bat a few months back, and some University professor at Waterloo did this already a few years back.

I didn't realize you could refill a diesel tank with solar panels.

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huu76huu76 - 5/17/2008 11:25:20 PM
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"BMW estimates that up to 12 billion liters (3.17 billion gallons) of fuel are wasted annually in traffic jams and other road hindrances"

That's about how much fuel would be saved if their cars ran on electric and didn't have to idle in city traffic. But what the hell do I know, I'm not German.

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