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Bigger and more powerful Prius in the works

rybo submitted on 07/04/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:03 AM
from: www.motorauthority.com

[47] user comments | category: Misc News

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Bigger and more powerful Prius in the works

Toyota’s third-generation petrol electric Prius hybrid is expected to make its world debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January next year but the car’s official launch isn’t expected to be until April of that same year.

The information comes from a source from the carmaker’s South Korean division, which revealed the new Prius will be simultaneously launched in Japan and the U.S. in April next year.

The changes planned for the new model will be minimal, and will consist of a slightly larger body, a more spacious interior and a more upmarket feel. Read Article

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DieselRules - 7/5/2008 12:45:43 AM

+1 Boost

That concept (in the rendering) will never make it to market.
The image in this article is more likely:
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/07/03/2010-toyota-prius-to-get-bigger-more-power-and-better-fuel-economy/
It also showcases Toyota's cost-cutting: glass is cheap, but steel is cheaper (especially really thin steel) so the windows are tinier than the slits in an armored van!
(its those same slit-windows that give the RX-350 models their bizarre, ungainly proportions)

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t_bone - 7/5/2008 9:56:21 PM

+1 Boost

Interesting. I HATE the trend of slitlike windows.

kthor - 7/6/2008 5:20:46 PM

+1 Boost

So it will have bigger toxic batteries and even more high intensity electromagnetic fields in the cabin, fabulous. An electric power line running under me and my family just doesn't sound very appealing. It's the same reason I didn't buy a house under power line or next door to a transformer.

EnnNorak - 7/11/2008 7:29:01 PM

+1 Boost

kthor, getting leukemia from driving does not appeal to me either. What the bigger Prius needs is to toss out the engine and battery pack in favor of a nice H4 diesel.

DieselRules - 7/5/2008 12:49:43 AM

+3 Boost

So, with better economy, it will it come closer to VW's older TDI models, just as VW releases the new, bigger, much more powerful TDI Jetta (that also gets a "real-world" 60 MPG Hwy ... on a US gallon)
I loved passing all those SUVs and Prius's on I-5 in my '98 Beetle TDI, but I just sold it to my son.
We're ordering a new Jetta TDI Wagon (hi-line) with DSG 6-speed, which will blow the doors off any hybrid ever built.
And I'm commuting on a Yamaha Majesty (the A6 2.7t is up for sale)

reply to this comment

bimmerfan25 - 7/5/2008 1:18:08 AM

+2 Boost

Diesel is for losers. Hybrids and electric cars will rule the world soon. Electric is the answer.

You'll see your Jetta TDi in a museum in 30 years next to a steam locomotive. Electric is the future and pretty soon noone will care about the ancient gasoline/diesel engines

reply to this comment

truckmen - 7/5/2008 4:05:22 AM

-3 Boost

Dieselrules did make a good point that his tdi beetle is better on fuel than the pathetic prius! Although I love the looks of this concept, it is just a facelift with a few mpg better on gas. PML blows this new prius away!

lenkun - 7/5/2008 11:39:53 AM

+1 Boost

I completely agree that Hybrid is a much better alternative than diesel. Diesel's fundamental principals contracdicts all it's mission. It's more expensive to buy than a regular unleaded fuel. It's dirty, noisey, runs rough, and above all, slow in performance will only getting about 80% of what a hybrid of similar size could do. It doesn't have as much torque than hybrid since hybrid gets their torque at zero RPM and also very expensive to insure and maintain, not to mention to purchase in the beginning.

Threepoint1415926 - 7/5/2008 1:14:17 PM

+2 Boost

"dirty, noisey, runs rough, and above all, slow in performance"

That is simply not true. Modern diesels are quiet, clean, they run smooth and are very good in performance.

bimmerfan25 - 7/5/2008 3:39:01 PM

+5 Boost

LOL well diesels have been developing for what? 100 years? How long have we been developing electric cars? Electric cars were actually on par with gasoline cars 100 years ago, but then the development of electric cars basically stalled and we had no progress for like 80 years.

Come back to me with this diesel vs. hybrid argument 10 years from now. We'll see how you feel then: ))

ps. how about the Tesla Roadster vs. the Beetle TDi?

like I said, your ancient technology (internal combustion engines) will be in museums next to the steam locomotive soon. Electric is the answer and it will take over.

chewy - 7/5/2008 7:58:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

electric development didn't stop. there was no point as the old batteries really sucked.

Why compare a Tesla and a Beetle TDI. The Tesla is a tin can, put the same engine into a real car, or the same Beetle and you would lose quite a bit of performance and economy.

An electric engine is more efficient than a gasoline powered engine, or even a diesel, no point in debating that. But, the turbine that created the electricity is not that far ahead of the piston engine.

Agent63 - 7/5/2008 2:21:44 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Boring & disgusting; typical Toyota(Lexus) designs. What's truly exciting about their looks? NOTHING!. I think my LS is the most boring to look at. A big car with a pricier tag should look more elegant than it does. However on the plus side it rides perfect over the bumps. Perfect for an old man(that i'm not).

Toyota needs to make this Prius look hip and cool in order to convince the younger consumers that a Prius is the next Civic to buy.

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MichaelTaylor - 7/5/2008 2:53:28 AM

+3 Boost

The current Prius does look hip and cool in a conservative way. Put it next to any Euro diesel car and the Prius looks advanced and trendy.

Agent63 - 7/5/2008 4:22:03 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

So it looks more hip and cool than a conservative A6 TDI or a Jetta TDI?.. You said ANY.

MichaelTaylor - 7/5/2008 5:50:21 AM

+1 Boost

Audi designs are so plain and predictable. They're boring in my opinion. And yes, the Prius looks like spaceship next to any European diesel or gasoline car. Many Toyota fans here on this site have already said it and I fully agree: THE PRIUS IS GOING TO BE AN AUTOMOTIVE DESIGN ICON.

You heard me. It will be right up there with the likes of Mercedes Gullwing, Jaguar E type, Avanti and others.

Agent63 - 7/5/2008 9:18:46 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

LOL !

No Toyota will be up there with the Gullwing. It will never cost as much as one too. You are seriously a troll even though you say you're not.

Don't even talk about Audi's designs. Have you seen my car? it's one of the most boring cars on the road despite my love for it haha!. It's not hip and cool and definitely won't get you any ladies (or in your case GUYS [go read the BMW PUTS LEXUS & MERCEDES ON NOTICE THREAD..He exposed his gender preference]).

Threepoint1415926 - 7/5/2008 1:16:59 PM

+2 Boost

Though I'll agree with some of what you say Agent, give it up with the sexual preference thing. This is a modern world. Do you really care? Does anyone else?

0to60 - 7/5/2008 2:02:24 PM

+3 Boost

Agent63 - " I think my LS is the most boring to look at" ...

Then why the H*!% did you buy it!?!

bimmerfan25 - 7/5/2008 3:42:15 PM

0 Boost

nothing wrong with the Prius. I'd take it over the BMW 123d and I'm a bmw fan from germany!

Besides, the design is not important. The technology that could save the world and change our entire transportation/energy sectors is what is important. Arguing that Prius sucks because it looks boring is just retarded.

Agent63 - 7/5/2008 7:13:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I bought the LS because of the customer service. It's boring but it's not a bad car. It's just not as good as some of the fanboys say it is. I speak from experience and everyday use of the darn thing.

Hyundai - 7/5/2008 11:24:28 PM

-1 Boost

"Though I'll agree with some of what you say Agent, give it up with the sexual preference thing. This is a modern world."

And why in the ironic world would you give a shit what he thinks about another person's sexual preference? What are you, the thought police? Does everybody have to condone sexual deviancy???

Threepoint1415926 - 7/6/2008 7:19:11 PM

0 Boost

And why in the ironic world would you give a shit what he thinks about another person's sexual preference? What are you, the thought police?

If I was of a policing nature, I would comment on your faulty inference of the world "ironic" to describe the situation. Opps, I just did! Damn me! Further, I dont care what he says I'm merely commenting on the fact that no one here (modern people I assume) cares what he has to say on the matter, in large part because this is a car forum, and given this is the third thread he's brought it up, it would be nice for the space to not have been wasted much like your comment and my rebuttal have now done. If you or him would like to discuss what your thoughts are on the matter, I invite you to a thread concerning philosophy and ethics. Otherwise, in the great words of myself "give it up." I dont care about his thoughts or yours. I just dont care to read them over and over and over again.

flozel1 - 7/6/2008 10:02:57 PM

+1 Boost

So this agent bought an LS, spent his own coin to purchase a car that he does not think is good enough.

Sound kinda' ridiculous doesn't it. But, whatever dude... But when you said you're young, that really confused me. Young people actually do a lot of research before they buy a vehicle. They tend not to rely on past accomplishments by automakers so much as the boomer generation.

Hyundai - 7/7/2008 9:33:36 PM

0 Boost

"If I was of a policing nature, I would comment on your faulty inference of the world "ironic" to describe the situation. Opps, I just did!"

HOW IRONIC?! Maybe you should brush up on your English?

Threepoint1415926 - 7/9/2008 7:20:21 PM

0 Boost

Again, you still dont know what "irony" means. Perhaps you should go brush up on yours?

truckmen - 7/5/2008 4:17:25 AM

0 Boost

Looks great, although it is the same ineficient car that it always was. My relative rented one for a road trip and he said that it was almost always in gas mode! The electric motor was too weak to back up a driveway so the gas motor had to start up to back up. He was very unimpressed.Why is toyota wasting there time producing nickel-metal hydride batteries when there are already batteries better than Lithium Ion? The new batteries have 5 times more range than lithium Ion and they are still stuck on old technology from ten years ago! PML is 20 years ahead of this inferior car!

reply to this comment

mpls - 7/5/2008 4:45:31 AM

+5 Boost

Toyota are also working on Lithium Polymer batteries, I think you'll find it was GM who was still working on researching NMH.

BTW, 5th Gear did a test on the Bluemotion of VW, the claimed 70+ was no reachable.. they said they could only get around 50mpg

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tcatnat - 7/5/2008 7:25:00 AM

+4 Boost

Diesel in my area is getting very expensive. I just bought a new car and wanted a diesel but for every penny jump in the price of regular gas, diesel goes up 2-3 pennies at least.

Why make the Prius larger? Is it marginally larger or significantly larger. I thin it fills a good niche. I have never been in a Prius, is it the same size a s a Carolla, why not make a Carolla hybrid.

Will next years Prius have the lithium battery or will it still be based on it's current technology?

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TheSailor - 7/5/2008 7:42:10 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

More powerful?!? That just doesn't make any sence at all! Isn't the entire point of the Prius to get you as far as possible on a gallon of gas?!? Then wouldn't it be better to make it less powerful?!

reply to this comment

Homer007 - 7/5/2008 9:21:06 AM

+3 Boost

damn if you do and damn if you dont.

popeye

Homer007 - 7/5/2008 9:22:28 AM

+4 Boost

I meant,

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. right?

Threepoint1415926 - 7/5/2008 1:22:37 PM

+1 Boost

That's kinda what I thought.

0to60 - 7/5/2008 2:04:28 PM

+1 Boost

Either way, the "enthusiast" will complain!

TheSailor - 7/5/2008 4:57:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Well... According to the Toyota/Lexus crowd, there is already an "enthusiast-hybrid"... And the point of the Prius was never to thrill anyone or to accelerate you as fast as possible from 0-60, but to be as frugal as possible! Making the car more powerful just doesn't seem to be in line with what Toyota have tried to market the Prius as! If they can get better mileage while offering more power, why not offer less power and even better mileage?!? I'm sure that's why people buy them in the first place! To get an anemic car with a semi-good fuel economy!

truckmen - 7/6/2008 4:17:44 AM

0 Boost

The sailer, how about 640BHP and still more economical than the Prius! The company is PML, about twenty years ahead of Toyota. Check out the article on PML, It is an eye opener.

StickShiftCamry - 7/5/2008 6:35:14 PM

+1 Boost

Agent63 - The LS leaves room for upgrading - it doesn't have polarizing looks - put some 22's on urs and a lowering kit. It does have nice exhaust openings. We get tired of seeing blk S550s here.

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investor27 - 7/5/2008 7:22:20 PM

+2 Boost

No. The lithium battery probably won't come until 2011 or 2012. Next year's Prius will still use the same, old, dated battery technology that's over a decade old.

Now I love diesel cars as much as the next guy. I had been a strong advocate of bringing diesel over to the US. But it seems the gas companies feel threatened by diesel fuel, and have raised diesel fuel prices to uninhibited, costly levels. At the current diesel gas prices, it doesn't make sense owning a diesel car anymore. Congress has to do something about this crime.

reply to this comment

tcatnat - 7/6/2008 7:26:00 AM

+2 Boost

That's a shame because I keep reading about new technologies coming to market within the next 3-6 years that will greatly improve fuel economy, including new batteries, plug-ins, the kinetic flywheel, hydrogen (maybe longer term) etc. Diesel would have been a nice stop gap until we get there. There is too much money in oil that is hindering our progress in transportation technology.

StickShiftCamry - 7/5/2008 10:14:05 PM

+1 Boost

Toyota has too much sh** up their sleeves - all they have to do is put AWD w/hybrid V6 in the ES...which i've heard things about. That thing will be fast and still cheaper than an A6.

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TheSailor - 7/6/2008 4:43:22 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

LOL... the ES is no competitor to the A6 at all... It competes with Infiniti and Acura... Not Audi!
And a Hybrid ES... Wouldn't that basically be a posh Camry Hybrid?!? It wouldn't make any sence to do that since the ES is in no way about performance! A I4-hybrid drive like the one in the Camry would be far better!

bmwdrvr - 7/6/2008 4:48:33 PM

+1 Boost

midsize front wheel drive alleged luxury car based on a cheaper model...it sounds like the A6 to me since when did Audi step out of tier 3...honestly Lexus here in America is a more prestigious company....by a long shot than Audi

huu76 - 7/6/2008 4:47:04 PM

+1 Boost

Sailor,
The GS450h is pretty fast, what makes you think a retuned I4 ES-hybrid wouldn't be?
The Germans are dreading the day an ESh sees the light of day, bigger vehicle and better mileage than their economy cars.
What doesn't make sense is why anyone would buy a TDI when a Prius gets better performance for the same price and on cheaper fuel, and is cleaner than any German vehicle ever will be.

Anyway, anyone want to take a wager on when the Germans embrace hybrids and claim to be the industry leaders and that diesels were never the way to go?

reply to this comment

TheSailor - 7/7/2008 5:10:32 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Because the CAmry isn't pretty fast... And remember, that if you tune an I4, you are going to have to give up something else... Reliability... And YOU wouldn't want that now would you?!

And the GS450h isn't pretty fast! Actually, when keeping in mind that it is the top of the range GS, it is actually pretty pathetic! And it doesn't even deliver on the fuel economy! And that is even before you factor in that it won't live up to the EPA rating because of that stupid way they come up with the ratings! And you are still forgetting our little talk about loss in the generator-inverter-motor setup! And I even forgot about battery charging loss bringing the efficiency down to less than 75% vs. an 80-85% drivetrain efficiency! You know that I have a diesel that can trumph every single hybrid model in the Toyota lineup, right? And I don't even have to move outside the boundaries of the BMW line up!
And even your precious CO2-figures which are Ohh so fantastic for the hybrids doesn't hold up as they are a product of the epa-rating! The CO2 output is directly proportionate to consumption. 1 liter of gasoline = 2.41 kg of CO2, 1 liter of diesel (light heating oil which is the same as car diesel) = 2.54 kg of CO2. HOWEVER, we also have to factor in that: 1 liter of gasoline = 115.000 BTU while 1 liter of diesel = 130.500 BTU so if you take BTU as a function of CO2, you get that: Gasoline = 47.700 BTU/ Kg CO2 while diesel = 51.370 BTU /CO2... That was just to prove what I've been saying all along, that diesel is a more efficient fuel than gasoline and is more CO2-efficient.
Also, this means that we can carry out a calculation for the actual CO2-outlet when we have some real life numbers... Lets take the prius...

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/10/prius_mileage_1.html

That is just 34 MPG or, roughly 14.8 km/ liter... That means that the real life outlet is 163 g/km of CO2... A far cry from the 105 you always toot! I know of twenty different diesel cars which will do that... Some of them as large as a 5-series... LOL... Economical Prius... TSK!!! To reach your numbers, it would have to do 23 km/l (basically the european rating which is as scewed as the EPA's as they've used that as a guide line for the EU-rating)... Now you were saying?!

AS to the germans going hybrid, well... They already have, however, they do nothing to market them in europe because they know that only the americans have bought into the hype and are buying hybrids. IF we can get a small economical (you know, the alleged purpose of the HSD) diesel hybrid that doesn't cost as much as a Prius (you can get a Seat Leon Cupra with 240 hp for the same money) I'm sure it will sell overhere (even though there is no actual gain to it over a regular diesel)... Until then... Have fun with your hybrid-bs!

huu76 - 7/6/2008 4:50:54 PM

+1 Boost

Regarding the Prius being hip and/or cool. No matter if you love or hate it, it stands out because of what it is, and by that nature is hip and cool.

Even the Beetle lost its edge to the Mini, and the Mini love affair has subsided.

Name how many movies the Germans had to buy airtime in inorder to tell people their cars are hip and cool. Toyota does absolutely nothing to advertise the Prius.

Trying to be cool isn't cool boys and girls.

reply to this comment

ChicaneShooter - 7/9/2008 2:26:22 AM

+1 Boost

for all the prius bashing, buyers still have to get ON A WAITING LIST to get one.

people will likely STILL have to wait, when the new one comes out.

how many people are on waiting lists to buy a diesel car?

reply to this comment

TheSailor - 7/9/2008 7:05:16 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

well... in europe, you have to wait for 4-5 months to get an audi a4 2.0 tdi...

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