	Agent009 "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
	View My AgentSpace

Brillance or Blasphemy?: Are Lexus Plans To Conquer Globe In Luxury Sales Realistic?

Agent009 submitted on 09/10/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:06 PM
from: www.detnews.com

[55] user comments | category: New Cars

Print this Page |

Digg It |

del.icio.us

Brillance or Blasphemy?: Are Lexus Plans To Conquer Globe In Luxury Sales Realistic?

When Toyota Motor Corp. shipped the first Lexus cars to California in 1989, most Americans were underwhelmed by what looked like made-in-Japan versions of Mercedes-Benz sedans.

"Back when it started, there were a lot of questions whether Lexus would work or not," said Dave Illingworth, a senior vice president at Toyota who was in charge of Lexus when the brand was introduced.
Within 11 years, Lexus' emphasis on delivering reliable cars and pampering customers turned it into the best-selling luxury nameplate in the United States. Now Toyota hopes to repeat that success around the world and transform the premium brand conceived for the U.S. market into a global luxury nameplate to rival the leading German marques Mercedes and BMW, whose global sales are roughly twice that of Lexus.

Read Article

Comments:

Images hosted in your AgentSpace can now be posted in the comments section using the following syntax (case matters):
[img]IMAGE URL[/img]
Example: [img]http://agent004.myautospies.com/users/150/Sample-Gallery/sample1.JPG[/img]

david999 - 9/10/2007 12:34:16 PM

-4 Boost

Lexus is growing because of the great products they make. People in North America know this. People in China and Russia, both huge markets realize this too. Eventually, Western Europeans will appreciate a Lexus vehicle the same way
North Americans do. The outlook is very bright for Lexus globally.

reply to this comment

Kinger - 9/10/2007 1:17:54 PM

+10 Boost

Why do you call diesels cheap? They usually cost more than their petrol counterparts.

Designer1 - 9/10/2007 1:29:50 PM

-9 Boost

Open up the hood on a diesel engine and compare that engine to a gasoline one, then you'll see why they're cheap. Especially the French cars, YUCK!!

LexusKindaGuy12 - 9/10/2007 1:41:52 PM

-11 Boost

there are many reasons why diesels arent the way to go. cheap is just his way of expressing that. they are loud, they emit more than they should from the pipes (currently), and not every gas station (at least in america) carries diesel. we have already started to phase that gas out.

Heyhuub - 9/10/2007 1:53:07 PM

+4 Boost

A 170hp Golf TDI is more expensive then a 200hp Golf GTI.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/10/2007 6:46:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"they are loud, they emit more than they should from the pipes (currently), and not every gas station (at least in america) carries diesel."

I like how you put the parenthetic references in there as an attempt to save yourself from thwart. Well, it didn't work!

They are not loud, especially not inside. Drive a Mercedes-Benz E350 sedan, then an E320 Bluetec and you'll see what I mean.

This also brings us to the Bluetec: cleanliness. The E320 is cleaner than any gas vehicle and still gets 34mpg on the highway, with 0-60mph in 6.4 sec. That sounds pretty good to me. Bluetec particulate filters will make their way to any company that licenses it, including Audi, VW and BMW.

Soon, almost every American station will carry diesel. The E320 Bluetec (or the rest of the Benz diesels) hasn't been very heavily advertised, but the appeal is catching on. Hybrid appeal is waning, according to some sources. The lithium ion battery can't come soon enough, Toyota.

Bill - 9/10/2007 7:26:00 PM

+2 Boost

Let me get this straight. Mr. Nicad, who claims to be an "expert" says that Lexus is doing poorly in Europe because of the IS220d? What a stupid comment. The IS220d is responsible for even creating interest in the damn brand. If Lexus sold only the IS250 and perhaps the IS350 in Europe, rest assured that not many would be sold. What's up with all the idiots on this site these days...

Alec - 9/10/2007 12:43:41 PM

+5 Boost

"It's not that easy to export the Lexus concept," Michael Ganal, BMW's sales chief, said in an interview earlier this year. "Lexus is made for the United States."

Best quote in the article simply cause its fact. But given enough time and Toyota's money, Lexus could reach global sales, provided that Toyota doesnt have any more slip ups and recalls. Lexus can reach it, just not anytime soon.

That poses a dilemma for top executives at Toyota's Aichi headquarters in Japan and at its U.S. sales operations in California: Should Lexus be adapted to each region or do they strive to refine one global identity for the brand?

Yuki Funo, a member of Toyota's board and the automaker's top manager in North America, said he believes Lexus should have one global identity"

The problem GM had, was no single identity, it had many. Good thing one board member recognized it.

"But many of its upscale models are sold under the Toyota brand. For instance, the RX is known in Japan as the Toyota Harrier."

And Toyota wonders why initial sales werent so good. Well I wouldnt want to pay extra for the L badge, when the Toyota counterpart does the same thing. It only looks nicer. Beyond Japan, is where its different.

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 9/10/2007 12:59:48 PM

+5 Boost

not with the current product line.

lexus designs cars for american tastes (big, soft, quiet). not surprisingly, the brand does poorly everywhere else including japan and europe (where it launched in 1990).

lexus will continue to do well in the US particularly as the baby boomers get older.

reply to this comment

Kinger - 9/10/2007 1:15:50 PM

+6 Boost

Of course its the product line, the european brands offer far more choice therefore are bound to sell better, if Lexus offers more choice then their sales will improve.

You think Europeans just don't buy Lexus because of the badge? How about the fact that Lexus never wins any comparison tests and doesn't offer the best overall product in any of the sectors it competes in over here.

enthusiastx11 - 9/10/2007 1:17:39 PM

+3 Boost

brand reputations are built over many years based on product performance, innovation, technology, design and sometimes intangibles like service. that's what makes a 'badge,' as you call it, valuable.

for example, lexus was able to charge more than a toyota when it launched because it provided a remarkable sales and service experience when every other brand had horrible dealers. slowly, the brand reputation grew and the company is now able to charge far more for lexus than it does for toyota counterparts on the same chassis and powertrain.

enthusiastx11 - 9/10/2007 1:19:49 PM

+2 Boost

and have a great day nicad!
too bad you're so bitter.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/10/2007 6:49:56 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

nicad, you seem to hold the convoluted thought in your head that Lexus is clearly superior to European brands, and that European customers only buy BMWs and Audis for what's on the hood. Well, that is completely incorrect. The European luxury manufacturers offer so much more in Europe and Asia than Lexus, in every respect. You'll just have to accept that.

Bill - 9/10/2007 7:29:01 PM

+1 Boost

The appeal of Lexus in Europe is non-existent for the most part. Nobody in Europe wants overpowered and overweight luxury barges like Lexus - they want to select what goes into their car and they want efficient engines. No Lexus engine can be considered "efficient" in Europe because they're all extremely poor on gas, except for the IS220d and that car gets terrible mileage compared to its German rivals. The European consumers also don't fall for this hybrid hype, unlike us Americans who listen to Toyota or Lexus without doing research.

enthusiastx11 - 9/11/2007 12:40:15 PM

+1 Boost

bill:

you nailed. and the numbers back you up. lexus sold merely 21 or 22 thousand cars on the entire continent (population: over 750million) in the first six months of 2007.

BenzW124 - 9/10/2007 1:16:32 PM

-7 Boost

Fact is tht BMW an Mercedes mke beter cars wit soul an pestge

reply to this comment

AUTO_UNION - 9/10/2007 2:13:09 PM

+4 Boost

Benz:
Learn to write! Even my grandmother writes better!

LexSucks - 9/10/2007 1:34:42 PM

0 Boost

Nice guys. No flame wars. just decent conversation. I'm proud of you guys.

Enough of that. Lexus had more than enough time to establish themselves globally. Its very simple. Europeans know a Toyota when they see one. Americans aren't that intuitive.

reply to this comment

LexusKindaGuy12 - 9/10/2007 1:39:08 PM

-1 Boost

arent we the hipocrite.

how can you say enough time. 2 years in japan, about the same time in russia and china. lexus is doing progressively better in those places too.

hate to point this out, but seeing as how western europe is the only place on this earth that doesnt appreciate lexus cars...there must be something wrong with your thinking, not the americans.

enthusiastx11 - 9/10/2007 3:07:12 PM

+1 Boost

lexuskindaguy:

the US is the only place that 'appreciates' lexus. and that's because lexus was designed specifically for the american market. lexus does poorly relative to other luxury brands in every country except the US.

LexusKindaGuy12 - 9/10/2007 1:37:03 PM

-3 Boost

i think that was a greatly written article that pretty much sums up what people on this site argue for.

the article was pretty positive from my point of view. it states that yes, lexus is not reaching its goals in some parts of the world, but nevertheless, their sales volumes are increasing. everything just takes time. infact, looking at those sales figures in japan shows that lexus is actually pretty high up there.

how can you say lexus was made for americans...when you guys say that lexus cars are big, soft, and quiet. for one, lexus cars are smaller than their competitive comparisons. second, if this was the forumla, why cant americans build these cars for americans...you would think americans would know how to build the cars that you claim we like so much.

reply to this comment

Alec - 9/10/2007 2:24:48 PM

0 Boost

It was made for the american market at that time. Mainstream overly large Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Mercedes just flooded the streets. Lexus has built itself to be better than its rivals in everyway possible while not being an American automaker. Why can't an american company do the same? Well they have, sort of. Only recently its improving.

Star - 9/10/2007 3:15:20 PM

-1 Boost

"Lexus has built itself to be better than its rivals in everyway possible while not being an American automaker"

That's true, if by its rivals you mean Lincoln and Buick.

Alec - 9/10/2007 4:49:40 PM

0 Boost

Lincoln, Cadillac, Buick, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc. Who ever was in America and is a luxury automaker, was Lexus' aim.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/10/2007 6:52:31 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"it states that yes, lexus is not reaching its goals in some parts of the world, but nevertheless, their sales volumes are increasing."

However, so are Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. Things like this don't just "happen." It takes a lot- and chances are, it won't just happen. There's too much opposition from the Germans, who are certainly not sitting ducks.

Atenza28 - 9/10/2007 7:42:04 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Just to throw it in there, Lexus was definitely made for the American market. As a matter of Fact the name Lexus is an acronym of sorts. It stands for Luxury Export to the United States.

kpaxx - 9/10/2007 2:49:21 PM

+1 Boost

Not sure if they are on track...lexus' consistent sellers are their cheapo cars...ES and RX...and lately the RX is looking like a weak seller.

This type of sales distribution is not the hallmark of a company that projects a strong luxury car brand image.

reply to this comment

LexusKindaGuy12 - 9/10/2007 3:34:55 PM

-2 Boost

its looking weaker because its in the last year of production. who wants to buy a model that will change next year?

LexusKindaGuy12 - 9/10/2007 3:35:23 PM

-2 Boost

^^ if those models are looking weaker at all, dont know where you get your info

kpaxx - 9/10/2007 3:55:30 PM

-1 Boost

ES and RX are their best sellers thats my point.

These are cheap entry level luxury cars.

and lately the RX has not been selling so well..view last month sales figures versus previous months...

david999 - 9/10/2007 5:17:04 PM

-1 Boost

If the ES and RX are "cheap entry level vehicles" then what do we say about BMW 3 series and Mercedes c-class vehicles which account for the majority of their sales,
not to mention 1-series, a-class, b-class. Talk about "cheap" luxury, get one of those babies and compare them to what you get with a Lexus. No contest.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/10/2007 6:58:47 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

david, another trollish comment. Hmm. I wonder why you would buy an A or B-Class, 1 Series or A3? THEY COST LESS. They're for people who can't afford larger, "better" luxury vehicles but don't settle for a Toyota or Volkswagen. You continue to deride this strategy as being "cheap," but these cars are just as thoroughly engineered as their more expensive counterparts. My A3 is the most fun I've ever had in a small car.

To put it simply, if Lexus wants to have even the slimmest chance of success in Europe, they NEED to have a smaller car. The IS may be uncomfortably cramped, but it's too expensive to be an A3/1 competitor. How about a line of FWD small hatches, called:

• TS150

• TS150d

• TS220d

• TS250

• TS300-F Edition (hot hatch)

Hmm. I should contact them about this.

Bill - 9/10/2007 7:34:57 PM

+1 Boost

As usual Mr. David989 has no clue. I think Mr. Carwimmer430 said it pretty nicely in another thread, and so did Mr. S4. These "cheap luxury" cars are well engineered and significantly more expensive than similar cars in their size class.

And you know what? There's nothing prestigeous in my opinion about a "luxury company" like Lexus that started out as rebadged Toyota's, that were sold at dumping prices to gain market share (because Toyota could afford too) and that has never really brought anything ground-breaking to the business. Look at the history of BMW, Audi and especially Mercedes. They destroy Lexus a million times over.

david999 - 9/10/2007 8:11:57 PM

+2 Boost

I am commenting to Kpaxx regarding his view of the RX and ES vehicles being "Cheap" in his eyes as compared to BMW and Mercedes entry level vehicles.
And S4, why don't you read the thread properly before trying to take me to task for my comments.

KeyserSoze - 9/10/2007 4:47:57 PM

0 Boost

lexus has never wanted to dominate the sales charts, even their president said so, it has never been Their aim. unlike the competion they dont need a 1 series or a 1.6 engine in their line up, that is what toyota is for in the first place.

reply to this comment

ICON - 9/10/2007 5:54:40 PM

0 Boost

That is the whole point!! Most enthusiasts realize that with Lexus you get Toyota. There is no seperating the two.
Which is why I don't expect Lexus to take over the Luxury Auto world. Especially when they entered the market as a less expensive alternative and now their autos are very close in price to well known Luxury brands like Mercedes, etc.
So when luxury makes like BMW,Mercedes, etc who are not derivatives of less expensive brands decide to make premium cars in more entry level type categories (Mini is a good ex) I call that great Market positioning for their brands to reach more potential customers while not sacrificing their core values (new 128i/d/135i are superb examples)

S4cabriofoxone - 9/10/2007 6:42:05 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

They'll have to go through Audi and Mercedes-Benz first, both of which are threatening to topple BMW. I don't think it will come even close to happening any time in the next twenty years unless they really, really, really change their act in other countries.

reply to this comment

david999 - 9/10/2007 8:13:37 PM

+2 Boost

And as usual, Bill is on another planet.

reply to this comment

Hyundai - 9/10/2007 11:10:17 PM

+2 Boost

Agreed.

The LS is also one of Lexus best sellers. That is currently Lexus' most expensive offering and it wins in the sales race between the S and 7, doesn't it? Funny how kpaxx forgot to mention that fun fact.

Will_ - 9/10/2007 10:38:44 PM

+4 Boost

It always amazes me how stubborn and snooty most ouf you people get when it comes to Lexus. Yes, they set out to conquer the largest luxury automobile market first, North America. Yes, the major reasons why Lexus isn't outselling its competition in Europe and other parts of the world is because they don't have door-buster-selling economy cars in their line-up, nor diesels, and their brand image is relatively nonexistant (considering they're in their 20s).

Now unlike the majority here, I have the opinion that they will eventually get a foothold in other markets as they continue to introduce more products. They began paying attention to other markets with the introduction of a diesel-powered IS, I don't think they'll stop there.

reply to this comment

Hyundai - 9/11/2007 1:24:03 AM

+1 Boost

I agree. Lexus needed to start somewhere. The criticism is good though - to a point. It starts to get obnoxious when people expect them to be perfect off the bat. Newsflash, every company has weak points, there is no need for the constant arrogance and hate.

XYZZ - 9/11/2007 5:41:46 AM

+1 Boost

...

reply to this comment

XYZZ - 9/11/2007 6:26:45 AM

+2 Boost

lexus sales are BOOMING in russia. is not russia part of europe? a part that apparently is not dominated by brand whores.

lexus is also showing fantastic growth in china.

and even in japan, despite its slow start, lexus not only gained the few thousand sales LOST by mb and bmw, but a few ADDITIONAL THOUSANDS on top of that.

europe IS NOT the whole world. so lexus IS on target. europe just happens to be the toughest new market for them to crack.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 9/11/2007 2:08:06 PM

+1 Boost

Just keep on hammering that Lexus/Toyota are no longer rebadged versions. Eventually it will sink in.
Not rebadging the Harrier as an RX also helps, it shows Toyota means business by limiting their own lineup to Lexus exclusive models.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 9/11/2007 2:12:38 PM

+1 Boost

s4foxy,
Yeah, diesels are loud and smelly. I've been in a Jetta TDI, a Liberty TDI and I've driven behind MB's deisels.
You know you're in a diesel in the first two, you know it's a diesel if you're tailing a MB diesel.

Maybe Europeans aren't used to gasoline cars, so the new diesels are quiet relative to the old ones.
If they think diesel is quiet, ask them to compare it to a Synergy Drive car.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 9/11/2007 2:21:19 PM

+1 Boost

Bill,
Well, north Americans don't fall for the diesel hype. Diesel here is a bit cheaper and still diesel hardly makes a dent. We know that unless you drive on the highway, there's no point in paying more for a car that you might not be able to refuel in the city.

kpaxx,
What does that make BMW then, 1/2 of their sales are 3 series and under.

If Europe doesn't like Lexus because the cars are too big, why don't they just make more land. I'm sure Chris Bangle can come up with a way. It might look like crap but...
Russia, China, N.America don't seem to have any qualms about larger cars, oh, that's right, we have land.

reply to this comment

XYZZ - 9/12/2007 8:19:28 AM

+1 Boost

bill:

"And you know what? There's nothing prestigeous in my opinion about a "luxury company" like Lexus that started out as rebadged Toyota's, that were sold at dumping prices to gain market share (because Toyota could afford too) and that has never really brought anything ground-breaking to the business. Look at the history of BMW, Audi and especially Mercedes. They destroy Lexus a million times over."

LOL! just shows how biased, DISTORTED, and REMOVED FROM REALITY bill's "opinions" are!

the fact that lexus is a division of toyota detracts NOT AT ALL for the truly informed. toyota itself builds the v12 Century, which competes against the Rolls Royce in all respects except history. even the cheapest toyota is MORE RELIABLE than any german "luxury" car. (what good is luxury when the car is in the shop instead taking you to the country club?)

the Lexus brand simply BUILDS ON what was already one of the most respected brands on the planet. all the given attributes of toyota -state of the art engines, total reliability, no bizarre styling gaffes-- are just taken to a new, HIGHER level. it only remains for lexus to offer its version of the century v12 in a lexus body.

except for the diesel IS --offered JUST to pander to euro diesel mania-- there are NO FOUR cylinder, "cheap" Lexi. EVERY LEXUS is a v6 or v8 luxury car. outside of europe, it has as much or MORE prestige than its competitors.

combining lexus and toyota (justified per above), the cars SELL MORE globally than not only the german big 4, but all of the detroit big 3 too, save gm. and soon gm will be surpassed too.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 9/14/2007 2:03:26 AM

+1 Boost

Alex,
Actually, Toyota sells more cars than all of Germany...period!

My mistake, above is Liberty CRD. It still sounds like a bus.

reply to this comment

XYZZ - 9/19/2007 1:37:09 AM

+1 Boost

yes, it's amusing to see the claims that worldwide, bmw and audi outsell lexus.

but combining lexus and toyota, it's no contest that the germans are left in the dust, saleswise.

reply to this comment

XYZZ - 9/26/2007 3:17:58 AM

+1 Boost

...

reply to this comment

XYZZ - 9/26/2007 3:24:06 AM

+1 Boost

note the new thread, "Lexus knocks out competing high end models in China."

lexus ALONE, to say nothing of lexus plus toyota, simply STOMPS the snotty german brands.
when you make a comparison of lexus + toyota, against combined audi + vw, and bmw and mb models across their WHOLE model and price ranges, the sales slaughter is even more dramatic!

reply to this comment

To post a comment for this story, you must first Login.

If you do not have an account, you will need to Register (It's Free!).

Most Recent Stories

The Genesis is stealing sales, but from who?Maserati MC Sport Line Package for the GranTurismo Production 2009 Honda Insight Hybrid Revealed UAW Feels The Heat And Suspends Job Bank And Delays Trust Payments Until 2010 The All New Mazda3 5 Door Hatch Debuts In Bologna Does It Have What It Takes To Be At The Top? The 2010 Audi A5 and S5 Cabriolet - Quick Reference Guide Out of Time, Out of Money, Out of Options GM Spirals Into The Abyss Porsche Panamera Tuned by 9ff and Russian firm's Top Car and Cardi Breaking: 2009 BMW Z4 Unveiled Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R Concept unveiled in Bologna All-New Mazda3 Hatch Unveiled at Bologna Motor Show Detroit's Big 3 request totals $34 billion Michelin presents Active Wheel system Audi anticipates record sales in 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback to feature Ralliart and GTS Editions November Luxury Car Sales - Is Infiniti ready for a flagship?UPDATED: First Audi A5/S5 Convertible Photos- STUDS or DUDS? Why No Hardtop?V8 Car Cookout: Bratwurst (Audi S5), Beef Teriyaki (Lexus IS-F) or Bacon Cheeseburgers (Challenger SRT-8)?GM Says It Will Sacrific SAAB, Saturn, Hummer, And Hobble Pontiac For Federal Funds Nissan Sales Sour By 44.4% In November: Infiniti Drops 28.0% UPDATED: Audi Sales Ends The Free Ride By Skidding 25.4% In November DETROIT AUTO SHOW: Audi Flexes It's Muscle And Is Set To Debut V10 R8 Sports-Car Honda Civic sales down nearly 30%, Toyota Highlander sales up nearly 50%Chrysler Outpaces GM To The Bottom Of The Heap: November Sales Fall 47%Ford Asks Congress For $9 Billion In Stand By Credit But Has No Plans To Use It GM Sales Out Does Them All In A Bad Way: Sales Implode 41.3% In November 2010 Nissan GT-R Spec V Reportedly Will Cost $160,000 but Not Get More hp Jaguar and Land Rover in Big Trouble as Tata on the Bubble Mercedes Benz Sales Crumble 38.2% In November Mazda Sales Tank 31.3% For November Hyundai Makes Everyone Else Look Good In November By Falling 40%Porsche and BMW to Halt Production Honda Sales Falter 30.6% In November: Acura Freefalls 38.9%The World Bids Farewell to the Yugo BMW Sales Plummet 36.1% Mini Sales Explode 43.1% In November GM Ceases All Corporate Jet Flights: To Sell Remaining Jets Toyota Sales Spiral In November Down 33.9%: Lexus Basement Bound Down 34.7%FOMOCO Sales Continue To Flatline: Down 30.6% In November Volkswagen Finally Fumbles In 2008: November Sales Drop 19.2%Japanese and South Korean Car Sales Plummet in November Comparison Test: 2008 BMW M5 vs. 2009 Cadillac CTS-V vs. 2009 Mercedes-Benz C63 The Big Three Bailout According to SNL Nissan 370Z goes from 0 to 60 in the same time as the BMW M3 Mulally chooses Escape Hybrid for D.C. road trip Fisker to unveil production Karma Hybrid in Detroit Toyota Halts Production And Cuts Management Bonuses To Maintain Positive Cashflow Chrysler says 2011 Charger and 300 will pass fuel-economy standards 2009 GMC Yukon XL Denali FORD CEO Alan Mulally Will Drive to Washington D.C. To BEG For Money - But What Car Will He Drive To D.C.? His Lexus, OR Perhaps Maybe a Ford Product?Industry Sales Likely To Be Down 28% In November GM May Fare Worse

More Recently Added News

Join AutoSpies

Photo Galleries

AutoSpies presents the best Auto Show Photos, Automotive Videos, Car Reviews and Hot Rides.

Latest Galleries

Cars

Auto Shows

More Galleries