CEO will stay until VW topples Toyota

rybo submitted on 12/09/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 8:21 PM
from: www.motorauthority.com

[56] user comments | category: Misc News

Tags: Volkswagen

Volkswagen

Volkswagen has made it no secret that it wants to challenge Toyota for the number one carmaker spot, going so far as to set a 2018 target date as the year when its manufacturing numbers will surpass those of Toyota. The CEO with the vision, Martin Winterkorn, has now claimed he wants to stay at VW until the goal is reached.

Winterkorn boasted that “German perfectionism and better design” are the advantages VW has in its arsenal to overcome Toyota. Read Article

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EL34 - 12/9/2007 8:37:26 PM

-9 Boost

Yes, crush Toyota like an ant!

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EL34 - 12/9/2007 10:13:46 PM

-4 Boost

43le_, haven't you ever played football?

In football the whole idea is to kill the guy with the ball and that would be Toyota ;)

dlin - 12/10/2007 2:07:35 AM

+4 Boost

That day will never come.

If Toyota got crushed, it'll be by somebody else, not by VW, a manufacturer that doesn't even have RWD.

qweasdzxc - 12/10/2007 2:15:33 AM

-1 Boost

Ha! This cornhead is absolutely shameless.

Stay till he dies. Smart will crush VW first.

Bill - 12/10/2007 7:51:14 AM

-2 Boost

"If Toyota got crushed, it'll be by somebody else, not by VW, a manufacturer that doesn't even have RWD."

So what does RWD have to do with this? The vast majority of cars worldwide are FWD. Most people could care less if they were driving a FWD or RWD car. Only driving enthusiasts really place a high degree of emphasis on the drive layout of their car for the most part.

zorbeeze - 12/10/2007 1:37:39 PM

-3 Boost

"In football the whole idea is to kill the guy with the ball and that would be Toyota ;)"

american football = dumpest sport ever created

Rupert - 12/10/2007 3:39:21 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Toyota doesn't have RWD as far as I know either...

MtlMotors - 12/10/2007 4:07:31 PM

+4 Boost

Zorbeeze, this is the second thread where I've seen you use the word ''dumpest'' instead of ''dumbest''. Get it right if you want people to take your comments seriously.

pacotacolol - 12/10/2007 5:07:28 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

uhoh. toyota, you can just mope while some un-american foriegners takeover the automobile market

keeskun - 12/14/2007 8:38:36 AM

+1 Boost

That will never happen. German perfection is always outdone by Japanese quality.

S4cabriofoxone - 12/9/2007 8:52:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+11 Boost

I don't think VW should focus on sales. That's too narrow and it takes too much cost-cutting to get there.

I DO think they should focus on product. If they make the best product, at a competitive price, the sales will come later.

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S4cabriofoxone - 12/10/2007 9:31:18 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Wow, this is definitely interesting.

I got a "+12" from this post and a "-8" from the other one. LOL!

huu76 - 12/9/2007 8:53:39 PM

+4 Boost

I won't rule anything out, but I think it is unlikely VW will come close to Toyota's numbers. These are my reasons.

1. Toyota practially owns Japan's market.
2. Toyota continues to take an ever increasing share of the N.American market (by giving us what we want, not telling us what we want). Even with Audi's gains, overall sales are still small.
3. Toyota is making inroads in Europe.
4. VW is banking too much on the Chinese market. Within the next decade, all foreign car companies will be fighting for leftover scraps as domestic makers enjoy government protection. It's also hard to compete when Chinese cars will be priced at $1.99 each.
5. Toyoat is also beginning to gain in China (not that it will matter in the longrun).

Toyota currenlty produces the same volume of cars as Germany, and makes just as much profit (if not more). VW is basically saying they will, by themselves, double Germany's auto output. VW has enough quality issues producing their current volume.

Again, I won't say it's impossible, but I think it's highly unlikely.

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S4cabriofoxone - 12/9/2007 9:09:22 PMView My AgentSpace

-10 Boost

"Toyota practially owns Japan's market."

And? The Japanese market isn't instrumental in "taking over the world." VW owns the CHINESE market, which is much larger and will be growing very quickly, very soon.

"Toyota continues to take an ever increasing share of the N.American market (by giving us what we want, not telling us what we want)."

GM is making a comeback.

"VW is banking too much on the Chinese market."

How so? Chinese cars are already sold IN CHINA, and VW outsells them by a long shot. Audi is already selling more cars in China than it sells in the US.

"VW is basically saying they will, by themselves, double Germany's auto output."

And this is feasible. VW is easily Europe's biggest automaker, and they have the potential to double their sales with a stronger foothold in the US market as well as Chinese growth. The Up! will do this.

"VW has enough quality issues producing their current volume."

In North America, yes, but in Europe and Asia, no. Why do you think they still sell so well there?

ghosthunter - 12/9/2007 10:11:40 PM

+6 Boost

S4.
You are hopelessly misinformed and outdated when it comes to Chinese auto market.
VW owns the Chinese Auto market only because no one else wanted to step in back into China auto market in 1990s. VW came in and took the risk, and they succeeded--a good move.
But, VW has become arrogant and refused to import its best technology. Over the last 20 years, the best selling VW car in China has been the same old Passat B2, which is known as Santana/2000/3000/4000 in China. It was amazing consider the B2 was originally designed in 1984 and still is the one of the most popular new cars in China even today. You maybe amazed that even the newest Santana 4000 still shares the same engine, same transmission, same body style, same panel as its 20 years old ancestor, the Passat B2. However, it finally seems to meet it destiny, the new auto pollution rating has prevent that ancient engine from selling in Beijing, Shanghai, and other big cities. Soon, it will be banned for the sake of clear air.
Personally, since I came from china, I hate VW more than any other auto company. Chinese auto market rewarded VW and saved it ass when VW was losing profit worldwide few years ago, yet VW kept treading Chinese like morons and selling them ancient technologies with an outraged prices. (a Passet B2 cost around 30 to 40 grand when I left China) also, unlike another car company that replaced it current lineup with new generations every few years (ie, 8 gen Accord replace 7 gen Accord), VW never do that. They introduce the new generation as a new car with a new name while keep selling the old one, this is unethical, and more and more Chinese are aware of it.
The consequence? VW is losing their market share, badly. When 7 gen Honda Accord first introduced itself in China, people jumped to it and made the 7 gen Accord the best selling mid-size sedan 3 years in a row, and unlikely VW, Honda actually bringing their newest technology, newest lineup with a reasonable price (similar to the U.S. version), the 8 gen Accord is going to be on sale the end of December this year, we expect nothing be a well deserved success. Civic and CR-V has also become the best selling vehicle in its class until Toyota came to Chinese Auto market this year.
Toyota came in to play in year 2007, and its Camry became the best selling midsize sedan (replace 07 Accord) the moment it hits the market. Corolla also came in second place in the sub compact sedan, followed by Honda Civic. It is not hard to see the fall of VW.

Okay. Now u may argue Audi. Yes, Audi has been popular; the Chinese government was using it as official car. But again, Audi’s reliability has become notorious. Mercedes and BMW saw the chance and jump into the market few years ago. Now, Lexus, just introduced to Chinese auto market at the beginning of this year, has already sold more imported cars than any other auto company in China, exceeding their goal 3 years earlier than they original planned. After Acura and Infiniti mad

ghosthunter - 12/9/2007 10:17:18 PM

+1 Boost

continue my previous post

But again, Audi’s reliability has become notorious. Mercedes and BMW saw the chance and jump into the market few years ago. Now, Lexus, just introduced to Chinese auto market at the beginning of this year, has already sold more imported cars than any other auto company in China, exceeding their goal 3 years earlier than they original planned. After Acura and Infiniti made their appearance, it is not difficult to see Audi will lose more and more of their market share.

And here is the really bad news for VW/Audi China. The government recently stopped making Audi the official car. Without government support, I don’t think Audi can hold its leading spot much longer. After all, such unethical company deserves everything but success.

there are some typos and errors involved. my apology.

Htay7500 - 12/10/2007 6:55:52 PM

+3 Boost

what about gm over there? I know that Buick sells like hotcakes over there while we get bland and boring ones in the USDM.

huu76 - 12/9/2007 9:12:20 PM

-1 Boost

Another point I forgot is Toyota is more global, it sells well in every market while VW seems to focus too much on Europe.

VW sales are approx 230,000/yr in N.America, rising about 4% while Toyota sells 1.2 million units in VW's backyard.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071203/UPDATE/712030442/1361

Regarding my earlier comment, Toyota now has 50% of the JDM.
http://www.japaneconomynews.com/2007/11/02/finally-japans-domestic-auto-sales-up-20-in-october-first-increase-in-28-months/

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S4cabriofoxone - 12/9/2007 9:22:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Just because they're not the top dog in NA, that doesn't mean they're not an internationally successful company. They sell commendably well in Europe, of course, as well as Asia and South America.

huu76 - 12/9/2007 9:23:43 PM

0 Boost

Foxy,
VW sells in China (that's all), Toyota destroys VW in every other market in Asia. Toyota isn't as far behind as you'd like to believe. VW is only 30% ahead (230K vs 180K). Buick outsells VW by the same margin. Even in lost markets, VW has problems holding its ground.
http://www.china.org.cn/english/BAT/150177.htm
If you think VW has product, think again. "Compared with its rivals, Toyota has many more products that are suitable for the Chinese market, such as the Reiz and the new Camry," said Jia Xinguang with the China Automotive Industry Consulting and Development Corp."

N.Americans like big vehicles, even if they have small engines (why do you think VW had to enlarge the Jetta?). The Up! is going down. Just remember the STUPID fr MB. We don't like riding around in lawnmowers.

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huu76 - 12/9/2007 9:31:39 PM

0 Boost

Sorry, my link was a bit out of date. Here's a 2007-2008 one.

"The Japanese automkaer increased its forecast to 480,000 units — up from 430,000 — thanks to solid sales of the company's Vios small car and the newly introduced Camry."

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-increases-2007-chinese-sales-forecast.html

Toyota expects to sell 700,000/yr by the end of 2008 and 1 million by 2010.

They are gradually catching VW's sales, which are prorated to 700K units this year.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/09/27/064427.html

VW will only gain the #1 spot if Toyota slows down, which we can see they are not.

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huu76 - 12/9/2007 9:36:58 PM

-1 Boost

Here's proof that VW only sells in China.
http://www.wheels.ca/article/29688
Their growth came mainly from China.

Foxy,
I'm not trying to pick a scrap, just pointing out facts. If VW wants the crown, they have to outdo Toyota and so far it doesn't seem like they will.

You can't be the highest volume if you don't outsell the competition in the 4 major markets.

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S4cabriofoxone - 12/9/2007 11:21:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

That's why I said I don't think they should focus on sales, but product.

Saying "I want to be #1" is not the best goal. It's much smarter to find out how to GET THERE first. That's what Toyota did, and it worked. I hope Audi and VW do the same, as they both have lofty goals... but ironically, Audi's is probably much more attainable.

Larry - 12/9/2007 9:50:47 PM

0 Boost

I don't think Martin Winterkorn has a 180 year life expectancy unless he is kept frozen in carbonite like Han Solo in Empire Strikes Back while maintain his position as CEO of VW, it will never happen.

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Anthony - 12/9/2007 9:57:10 PM

+2 Boost

Yes, this will not be happening for a while, even though 2018 is a very far off anyway. Who really knows what could happen in 10 years or so? My guess is that Toyota and GM will still be fighting each other.

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zairnaim - 12/9/2007 10:30:47 PM

-3 Boost

i also think Toyota and GM will be battling it out at that time but i think Hyundai has more of a chance than VW at becoming number 1 cause they are trying very very hard. Warranty quality design have all been improved vastly in the last few years though they still imitate other designs which i hope they will stop doing like Lexus has.

nybimmer - 12/9/2007 10:01:43 PM

+2 Boost

One would hope VW would first strive to match the quality of Toyota vehicles and then chase the volume. VW's are nice cars but to this day are still rattle-traps (read the recent Car & Driver LT test of the GTI which they loved but which is basically falling apart).

I'd love to know what VW spends on warranty costs WW. Recently - bunch of oil sludge 1.8/2.0 I4 turbo engine replacements (what can a new engine cost..$7,000?), Toureg's falling apart, etc. At least they didn't sell that many Phaetons but those had some costly electronic issues as well.

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pchera01 - 12/9/2007 10:13:53 PM

0 Boost

even though VW may not gain as Toyota, their other hand, Skoda is in big rise. Skoda=any Chinese cars, they are too cheap too and looks btter than VW and Toyota

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ghosthunter - 12/9/2007 11:21:30 PM

+3 Boost

except Skoda in china comes with a higher price tag than Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Mazada 3. I don't see a lot of people choosing Skoda over honda Civic, for style or fuel consumption or reliability or price.

kart1 - 12/9/2007 11:22:08 PM

+3 Boost

This is not a good ideology by the CEO. Try to beat Toyota by producing better products and fairer prices. Why get into a war that they don't need, and possibly won't benefit from. They should try to make the most profit, not sell the most cars.

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kart1 - 12/9/2007 11:22:52 PM

+3 Boost

Last sentence correction.
They should try to make the highest profits, not sell the highest number of cars.

Larry - 12/9/2007 11:55:53 PM

+2 Boost

Look at how late Volkswagen is to the SUV party, their first suv was 2004, and i guess the Tiguan will be on sale in 2008 in the US. Toyota has several SUV's plus the Land Cruiser has been around for decades.

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truckmen - 12/10/2007 4:51:16 AM

0 Boost

VW should focus on quality issues before they make more crap! They are definatly sporty! Unfortunatly quality issues overshadows anything positive, Toyota is headind this way too! Honda may take the lead in another few years?

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JUGNU - 12/10/2007 4:53:51 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Toyota is everywhere. What is VW? consist of 4-5 cars and is close to nowhere outside Europe.

Toyota covers Everything. Every category of Sedans, SUVS, Commercial vehicles like trucks, pickups, buses,(trailors, under Hino name) and upcoming new range of Sports cars like Supra and celica...everything. U name it and and Toyota have it.

btw VW enough of this and focus more on the product. VW is one of the most unreliable brand.

"The CEO with the vision, Martin Winterkorn, has now claimed he wants to stay at VW until the goal is reached."

so he meant he'll stay until forever.

JUGNU

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AUTO_UNION - 12/10/2007 9:04:44 AM

-1 Boost

I think too many people are brainwashed here. Let me only mention Audi, Porsche, Bugatti, Lambo, Bentley. These brands are very connected to VW and are very respected in their segments. VW also makes very good cars except in NA where VW-s are made in Mexican plants and therefore are unreliable. VW can succed in everything and I mean it literally.

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BigShow50 - 12/10/2007 9:10:05 AM

+2 Boost

What I find interesting is that he has a similar identity to Bobby boy "No Clue" Lutz, not just physically, but both having that same big hoarse ass mouth...all talk is all he can say at the moment. Problem here is that Japan (Toyota & Honda) rather be more conservative and patience in their role of the automotive world. And say tight lipped about the whole deal. Where I noticed the desperate tend to opne their mouth. Other than givin' themselves 10 years?!?!? To surpass Toyota??? Right Toyota is content at this point that they will stay where they are at, no not really it just gets better adn bigger from here. All of a sudden VW's Ceo is Nostradamus...great to have a positve role in the game but let the actions speak for themselves, b/c after all VW is not the only company in the world that can make a car with 4 wheels and a steering wheel...

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RealitySmack - 12/10/2007 9:11:40 AM

0 Boost

2018 is very long ways away! I wouldn't hold my breath on what ANY CEO says. Just look at Jim Press! Before he was kissing Toyota's butt and now Chrysler. It's funny to watch his comments and goals for Chrysler and compare it to Toyota. His comments are TOTALLY flipped like night and day!

I would say 2018 is way too short to take on Toyota but, having that goal is good.

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RealitySmack - 12/10/2007 9:13:34 AM

+2 Boost

Oh, just want to add that don't flame me for comparing Jim Press because I know he wasn't a CEO. I was trying to convey a point about all high level staff in a company.

ThierryHenry14 - 12/10/2007 11:34:39 AM

+4 Boost

Its his ambitions. Will they outsell toyota by 2018, thats anyone's guess, though it seems unlikely. Does it drive himself/VW AG to make positive strides, YES...

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JUGNU - 12/10/2007 12:56:51 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Some quotes from a recent interview of Toyota boss Katsuaki Watanabe.

"We are working very hard building cars and selling them with the best service.
Becoming number one was just the outcome of our efforts, not an end in itself."

"In the past 20 years, car ownership has increased by 100 million vehicles every five years.
By 2010, ownership is projected to exceed one billion. Led by Brazil, Russia, India and China, emerging markets have fueled that growth."

So guess where Toyota is concentrating it's clout.

Seventy years old this year, Toyota is on course to sell 9.8 million cars - it and shows no signs of slowing down.

JUGNU

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autopro - 12/11/2007 6:31:23 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

VW will never even get close,their out of their league.

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mini22 - 12/12/2007 1:29:22 PM

+1 Boost

Do you really think a Camry is an exciting car to look at or to drive. The've always been well made but certainly it's never a car that you would give yourself an excuse to go out and do an errand just so you could drive it. I would be more prone to do that in an A4 or the new A5. Also Toyota may be the largest car maker now but times change. In addition Toyota is starting to have quality and reliability issues with some of their models. For example the Tundra has had engine issues as has the Avalon.I read recently that the plant in California that produces the Vibe and the Matrix fired a quality control person recently who blew the wistle on overlooked sub quality part. This smacks of the kind of mentality the US auto makers used to have. But it also reflects Toyota's desire to be #1 at all costs. I'm just saying that there a some chinks in the armor here.Also some top Toyota executives from Toyota have left. VW does have some quality issues in the US as well.But there is nothing wrong with setting a goal to improve quality and productivity. With their new 4 platform plan it will be interesting to see what happens. 7 yrs into the can mean a lot of changes. Just remember when you're at the top of the heap,the competition is gunning for you and the only potential direction is down. It happened to GM,it could happen to Toyota.

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mini22 - 12/12/2007 1:31:35 PM

+2 Boost

Woops-I meant to say 7 yrs into the "future" can mean a lot of changes.

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Porschinator - 12/12/2007 2:47:52 PM

+2 Boost

It is a HoooRah!!! speech. Kind of a ego driven as well, basically stating Germany is better at engineering than Toyota (Japan). Competition is very good for the consumer and if anything I hope this makes both brands that much better.

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JWalkerLegrande - 12/12/2007 3:49:50 PM

+1 Boost

Winterkorn's social security will expire twice before VW (should I call it Porsche Holding?) even has a glimpse of seeing the back of mighty Toyota...

Focus on quality-cost-design-marketing instead of the chase. Lots to do.

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KillBot - 12/12/2007 4:21:49 PM

+3 Boost

This is going to be one of the best things that has ever happened in the history of mass produced cars. The reason I say this is because you have the 2 of the best ,everyday driver, companies. One Euro one Eastern, that are going to do battle and FORCE the rest of the industry to keep up. It will make almost every car company have to step up or step out. This will be a great thing for all car buyers, whether or not you would even buy a VW or Toyota, and I feel the companies that are really going to feel the effects of this are the luxury car companies. Maybe not in their higher end vehicles, but definitely in their lesser lines example: C-class, 3 series, A's, and IS. Prepare to get more and more and more for your money from every car company. And you'll have the "Clashing of the Titans" to thank for it.

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S4cabriofoxone - 12/12/2007 10:49:35 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Wow, great, this has turned into a VW hate fest.

I have to know: why do you guys despise the brand so much?

Put the "THEY BREAK DOWN EVERY DAY!" crap to rest for a moment. VWs are very stylish cars from any normal buyer's perspective. They offer a far more upscale appearance than the competition.

And best of all, they back up that appearance with true substance. The cars feel and drive like a proper German car should. Their interiors continue to impress. Their handling is second to none in their classes. They have turned four companies into four of the most successful luxury makers on Earth, of varying degrees--Audi, Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini. The injection of Porsche cash and performance will do wonders for profitability and production. They will soon open a North American plant, which will (finally!) improve American reliability.

So what's missing? Nothing that I can see. I'm not saying they'll be #1, but I'm just saying... Volkswagen AG is a great company, one that the deserves the admiration of many.

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huu76 - 12/15/2007 3:00:20 PM

+1 Boost

zorbreeze,
I agree with you on that one. Rugby makes a lot more sense, you need to be strong and smart, not just dumb, overweight and juiced up.
Nothing beats hockey though!!!

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