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Cadillac Has Turned The Tables With The CTS-V So Who Needs An IS-F Or Even A M5?

Only a few days ago, veteran GM engineer and racer John Heinricy, executive director of GM performance car programs, took a bone-stock 2009 Cadillac CTS-V around the famous Nurburgring circuit in seven minutes, fifty-nine and thirty-two one hundredths seconds, making it the fastest production sedan ever to have lapped the ‘Ring circuit. They had to wait to make the announcement until the car could be shipped back to Detroit and demonstrated to the media at the GM Milford Proving Grounds.

Heinricy says the car was run on stock Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires at standard inflation pressures of 32 psi, and that the car was heavier than stock due to the inclusion of a roll bar, driving seats, five-point harnesses, and fire extinguisher in the cockpit, about 4300 pounds. He said the car, an automatic left in Drive the entire lap, got airborne in several places around the track, and hit a top speed of 175 mph at redline (6200 rpm) in fifth gear, averaging well more than 90 mph all the way around the circuit.
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Cadillac Has Turned The Tables With The CTS-V So Who Needs An IS-F Or Even A M5?



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abupuabupu - 6/12/2008 11:21:54 AM
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It's a cracker!!! More images and detail here:

http://www.pressportal.com.au/news/289/ARTICLE/2377/2008-06-12.html


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klipprandklipprand - 6/12/2008 11:22:55 AM
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Agent009Agent009 - 6/12/2008 11:25:12 AMView My AgentSpace
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I think they limit their claim to the fastest around the ring.


abupuabupu - 6/12/2008 11:25:26 AM
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"These acceleration times are believed to be the fastest for any V-8-powered sedan currently in production."

in the above article...



bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 6/12/2008 11:45:24 AM
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since when did the RS4 become the fastest sedan...its not even the fastest in its class...........maybe thats a typo...


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 6/12/2008 2:17:08 PMView My AgentSpace
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everything is speculative until someone other than Cadillac can prove their claims ... until then, I am fastes person on the planet and can leap over the highest buildings


09CTSVforMe09CTSVforMe - 6/12/2008 3:36:51 PM
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BMW4...there is a video posted of the 'Ring run, and several auto journalists have ridden in the car as they proved their claims in Michigan...so...what exactly constitues validation for you?


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 6/12/2008 5:24:21 PMView My AgentSpace
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since when does a video by Cadillac justify that the info is 100% correct. The journalists, in the articles just stated what Cadillac had printed for them already.

This is just like the IS-F, right before it debuted. Every lexus fan boy came out in droves to proclaim that the M3 is dead and the IS-F is the new supercar. That was until the " actual comparison test came out ", BMW M3 was still standing while the IS-F was picking up its parts since it had its doors blown off.

Just wait and see



91z4me91z4me - 6/12/2008 5:33:38 PM
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BMW4me4ever,

Do you also negate all the GT-R buzz because only Nissan has driven it at speed on the Ring?



klipprandklipprand - 6/12/2008 6:23:58 PM
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For the record, I really like the new Cadillac a lot. They have improved tremendously in the past few years. I even (gasp!) test drove one.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 6/12/2008 7:10:12 PMView My AgentSpace
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91z4 - difference is that the GT-R has been tested by every magazine and has been proven to be everything that it was said to be. Huge difference


MunichRobMunichRob - 6/12/2008 8:57:11 PMView My AgentSpace
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The RS4 has been reported to have clocked a best time of 7.55 around the "Ring." Don't hate the messenger as I'm not trying to downplay the CTS-V n anyway, I just read about the RS4's time & realized that it's indeed quicker than the CTS-V's time.


jasaerojasaero - 6/12/2008 10:25:57 PM
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MunichRob that was a possibly modified RS4 that also had slicks I believe. Think they might have been available stock, but I have seen much speculation that thing wasn't for sure fully stock.


09CTSVforMe09CTSVforMe - 6/13/2008 8:39:25 AM
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BMW4, the video proves the lap time.

The journalists I am referring to rode along with the drivers as they ran 3.9 0-60's and 12 sec 1/4 miles at the Michigan proving grounds.

Non-GM people have validated both "claims" so therefore, they are true. I'm not sure what is so hard to see here...



CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 11:08:30 AM
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bmw4me4ever

I usually agree with what you have to say but now you are way off. i own a bmw also, but in no way do i believe an m3 can be compared to the new CTS-V, the Cadi is in a different league. What dont you believe about the video?? After years of overstating performance figures, GM is now doing ther complete opposite. Look at the Vette ZR1, they said it was going to be rated at 600-620hp max, and the dyno showed almost 640hp, the numbers for trhe cts-v were supposed to 540-550max and there almost at 560.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 6/14/2008 1:15:15 AMView My AgentSpace
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Huh? The RS4 is awesome but it's definitely not the fastest sedan in the world. That happens to be the Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG at the moment.


DexDiamondsDexDiamonds - 6/12/2008 11:25:38 AM
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I honestly like the look of the new CTS but am not to fond of how the V looks. But this car is bad... Just when I was content telling myself I was getting a M5 as my next everyday car.

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EL44EL44 - 6/12/2008 11:38:12 AMView My AgentSpace
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And again Agent 009 cannot control himself to write titles like this. He must always include a negative sentence about some other brands. Who wants to buy the M5 or ISF?
If Caddy has made a great car, dosen't mean that everybody has to like it and buy it. And by the way, isn't this CADDY is more in M5 class, than M3,ISF,AMG C or RS4?





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bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 6/12/2008 11:48:31 AM
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no its not........the STS-V is hence the 80,000+ asking price vs the CTS-V which cant be anymore than 60-65 grand the last one was in the high 40's-low 50's...Its just bigger than the other cars like the ES, G35 or TL is


Agent009Agent009 - 6/12/2008 12:55:16 PMView My AgentSpace
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EL44- I guess some people just seem to not like a direct question. Why pander around? I just go out there and say what I think and let the chip fall as they may.

At least everyone knows my opinion, and hopefully if they differ or agree they express their own.

However Caddy has become a force to be considered. Many of our articles focus on BMW, Lexus, Merc, and sometimes Audi. Caddy rarely is mentioned as much, and maybe they should be.



EL44EL44 - 6/13/2008 1:02:29 PMView My AgentSpace
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I repeat it again Agent009. This Caddy seems to be a great car. I personnaly like the new shape of Caddy's. I have told just directly what i thougt about the title.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 6/14/2008 1:18:50 AMView My AgentSpace
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bmwdrvr, the STS-V may cost more but it's much less of a car. It's actually the size of a 7 Series for a 5 Series price, and has about 470hp. The CTS-V is a much better comparison to the M5 because it's a similar size, but with more power.


henbmwhenbmw - 6/12/2008 11:43:57 AM
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Boy, what an impressive 6200rpm redline...

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jeeka715jeeka715 - 6/12/2008 12:00:59 PM
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Pull up next to it in your car and tell the driver that and see what happens...I really hope you are being sarcastic.

So what?! So it doesn't rev to 8300rpm, with all that supercharged low-end grunt, you don't need a high revving motor to get the desired power. It's a different kind of motor....

The s2000 has a redline in the 8k-9k range (depending on year) but has no torque....given it's a tiny motor to begin with, it HAS to rev that high.

The CTS-V does not need to. Accept it.



henbmwhenbmw - 6/12/2008 12:43:55 PM
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"I really hope you are being sarcastic."

No, jeeka, I was completely serious when I said 6200rpm is impressive for a 'modern' engine.

I have no problems with the CTS-V, it will be a damn fast car at a great price - good job Caddy. Personally, I prefer engines that inspire and excite; high revving, high strung motors come to mind. Of course, we all have our preferences. This FI V8 doesn't seem like the type that makes car enthusiasts go wild.

And thanks for the silly lecture on torque/rpms/hp. You can save that for your 9th grade science class show and tell.



CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 11:29:03 AM
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Henbmw

Out of this amazing article, you manage to mention the 6200 rpm redline?? You like engines that "Inspire and excite" Let me put it in the simplest way for you. An engines main job is to provide propulsion. The measure of this is is effiecency and speed. If you have a cadiallac that hits the querter mile in under 12 seconds and a BMW that does it close to 13 seconds, the Caddialc is much faster thus to most people that equels more excitement. My 335i destroys my friends honda s2000, yet the fact that the s2000 revs about 2000 rpms more per minute than my 335 offers him nothing more in terms of excitement, except watching me fly by while his car is eating more gas and going slower. So what the F@#$ are you talking about? be a lil more objective and poeple will take you more seriuosly.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 6/14/2008 1:20:06 AMView My AgentSpace
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Grabbing for straws, I see.

Love the M3. Saw a white M3 sedan in the city today--really, beautiful. But they can't be compared. Don't embarrass yourself.



henbmwhenbmw - 6/15/2008 1:56:44 PM
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Common- Take me more seriously? Your naivety is painful to read but let me attempt to enlighten you (however impossible that may be).

It is quite apparent from your idiotic post that you have no clue what makes a car exciting. A FAST car does not equal a FUN car in any way or form. A Mercedes AMG SL65 is stupid fast but most people will say that an Exige, R8, 911 Turbo etc would be more FUN to drive.

WHY are these cars more fun??? Because everything in them is more sports driven; THE ENGINE BEING THE MOST ESSENTIAL PART. Rather than the lazy torque that the AMG produces, the others create power in ways that allow the driver to pull it from the engine, rewarding them in ways the AMG does not.

I must say that your argument that "my 335i is faster than a S2000 and therefor more exciting" is one of the more disturbingly retarded fallacies I have ever heard on this site. You would honestly have to be out of your mind to believe that a 335i can equal to fun factor of a S2000.

I certainly hope your name isn't meant to refer to yourself.



CaraficionadoCaraficionado - 6/12/2008 12:19:24 PM
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Awesome car: yes, and kudos to Cadillac, but still overshadowed by the other two, specially the Bimmer

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gsh23gsh23 - 6/12/2008 12:33:55 PM
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isf will get better mileage...

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MtlMotorsMtlMotors - 6/12/2008 1:23:16 PM
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I don't think people look at mileage in this class.


85bmw745i85bmw745i - 6/12/2008 7:19:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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Actually I think the CTS will get better mileage. All the torque from the pushrod V8 will allow a super tall 6th gear like the vette. Rather than closely spaced gear ratios, the torque of the engine will compensate allowwing 5th and 6th to be taller


CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 11:30:03 AM
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and a Honda Fit get more mpg than an IS-f, you buying one?


Htay7500Htay7500 - 6/12/2008 12:53:28 PM
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I wouldn't mind a cts-v over an m5 or isf. both of those are ugly as sin.

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StarStar - 6/12/2008 3:07:31 PM
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You think the CTS-V looks better than an M5????? Even more you think the M5 is ugly????? WOW!


Htay7500Htay7500 - 6/12/2008 4:20:45 PM
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If I thought the M5 looked better, then I'd be on acid right about now. how on earth does it even look better than the cts-v? please elaborate. it looks more asian than asian cars themselves, even if it has the BMW badge.


StarStar - 6/12/2008 4:54:54 PM
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The CTS-V looks like an advertisement for "pimp my ride" while the M5 is design masterpiece. I don't know where the confusion is.


Htay7500Htay7500 - 6/12/2008 5:28:44 PM
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um masterpiece? wouldn't that be a ferrari? just because it has the BMW badge doesn't really make it beautiful.


StarStar - 6/12/2008 6:13:53 PM
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Not all Ferraris are design masterpieces and of course not all BMWs. This has nothing to do with the badge. I would never say the X3 is a design masterpiece but the M5 is simply gorgeous. 5-6 years from now you will see that I'm right. The current M5 is going to be a classic and the CTS-V is just going to look cheap and dated.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 6/14/2008 1:21:09 AMView My AgentSpace
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Actually, I really love the way the E60 M5 looks... Something about it so sinister but so elegant. Maybe a tad too subtle in dark colors.


damikcodamikco - 6/14/2008 7:18:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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BMW's are kind of ugly if you realy look at them. some of them look like faces and the headlights look like eye lashes to me.


henbmwhenbmw - 6/15/2008 10:52:48 PM
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The CTS-V and M5 are BOTH gorgeous cars. There. I said it.


jeeka715jeeka715 - 6/12/2008 1:44:21 PM
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henbmw,
So you were being sarcastic then...no worries. Typing on the internet does not allow for tone. I'm no attacking you, I am commenting on the engines, so don't get your panties in a bunch...you guys all take things too personal...

You are right about preferences, hi-revving motors are more my fancy as well (M3 comes to mind, as well as the RS4), but this car, on paper, seems to be the real deal.....hi revving or not...

BTW, I'm way out of 9th grade, so get your nose out of the sky, you'll catch a cold, not I am attacking.


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jeeka715jeeka715 - 6/12/2008 1:45:59 PM
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damnit! keyboard sucks!


utahnkidutahnkid - 6/13/2008 3:41:11 AM
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It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools..

Haha.. Just givin you crap.



EL34EL34 - 6/12/2008 2:45:01 PM
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W-O-W What a beautiful fast automobile.

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sizquiksizquik - 6/12/2008 3:33:19 PM
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If GM prices it right and gets above 14mpg (wishful thinking) they will have an absolute grand slam on their hands. I WANT to buy an american car and this gives me a reason to actually do so.

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damikcodamikco - 6/14/2008 7:20:31 PMView My AgentSpace
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It will easily get over 14mpg


TheSailorTheSailor - 6/12/2008 3:49:59 PMView My AgentSpace
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In the immortal words of Homer Simpson:

MMMMMMMMM! CTS-V! GARRRRRRR!


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xfiftyxfifty - 6/12/2008 3:54:42 PM
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IS-F ? IS-F is not even in the same category as CTS-V. The competitors are more like E63, M5, and RS6. Forget about M3, C63 or IS-F they have no chance.

Ever since GM debuted Z06 and C6 Corvette I've decided no more Foreign cars for me and I owned 6 different Porsche along the side with Crapy MBs.

In my house hold the car money will go to American made cars. Looking at Corvette, CTS-V, Challenger and many more in the same category I'd be stupid to spend my money on upcoming and over priced Panamera as opposed to CTS-V.


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damikcodamikco - 6/14/2008 7:27:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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my money has always went to american cars
1. they are just as good as forigen.
2. they say "toyota hires americans and give them jobs" but the profits go over seas this dosent help the usa economy one cent and we are in one of the worst positons ever right now. Buy American
3. The japanees pay thier workers half of what american companys do so why trade good paying jobs for jobs that dont put food on the table? where is our loyalty to our home?



henbmwhenbmw - 6/15/2008 10:56:22 PM
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Yes, the Americans have had some recent successes. The Z06, CTS-V, G8, 'Stang are all world class cars. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. Japanese and Europeans still create the best cars on the planet.


autoproautopro - 6/12/2008 5:01:16 PMView My AgentSpace
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It could have 1000hp I still won't drive a cadillac!!!!!!!!!!!

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CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 11:32:21 AM
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In that case change your name from AutoPro to AutoHoe


damikcodamikco - 6/14/2008 7:28:44 PMView My AgentSpace
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Then you have a closed mind my friend.


KillBotKillBot - 6/12/2008 5:21:16 PM
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good news, but old news

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MercedesBenz00ZMercedesBenz00Z - 6/12/2008 5:27:17 PM
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I have to admit, Cadillac has improved a lot.

but I still think the American cars suck. So, no thanks, I don't want it. It still looks ugly compared to M5 anyway.


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 6/14/2008 1:23:13 AMView My AgentSpace
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Well, if you still think American cars suck, consider this the exception. What's not to like? It looks stunning, has a well-made and attractive interior, an incredible engine, great handling, the heritage of a Vette and what will most likely be a good price.


CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/14/2008 3:01:54 AM
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Well said. To bad people have hate towards something without having a clue about its true capabilities. these people dont seem like Auto enthusiast, rather marketing reps for auto companies.


damikcodamikco - 6/12/2008 5:31:31 PMView My AgentSpace
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GO Gm and Cadilac beat the germans on their own track!!!!!!

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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 6/12/2008 6:42:48 PM
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My $0.02... I'm sure it'll sell great, but the big draw to the old CTS was how much less it cost versus the M3, RS4, and C55. It was a value. Now it costs the same. And I'm sure it's worth it, sounds like they made quite an amazing machine. BUT for the same money, I'd rather drive one of the German cars if for no other reason than they're more prestigious. They're more desirable. I don't care that the CTS-V is 5 seconds faster around The Ring than the M3. Take the value out of the equation and I'd rather have the "higher end" car. I would take the CTS-V over the IS-F though, just not a fan of that thing.

And before I get hit with the "yeah well you're just a stupid idiot moron poopy face stinky head German fan because the CTS is bigger than a 3-Series or C-class so it's a 5-Series/E-class competitor"... no, it's not. Not to me anyway. Cadillac might try marketing it that way, and maybe they sell a few of them that way to the extremely value conscious buyers out there, but as far as I'm concerned price makes cars competitors more than size does. A Genesis is the same size as the S-class, 7-Series, A8, and LS. Are they competitors? No. A CTS-V is priced like an M3/C63, those are its competitors. And I'd rather have one of those. I'd also rather have an M5/E63/RS6 over a CTS-V, but like I said, they're in a different league of much more expensive, uber desirable cars.


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pushrod27pushrod27 - 6/12/2008 8:06:38 PM
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True... but Cadillac is making a concious effort to increase the perceived value and prestige of their brand. That means NOT playing the value card, and using prestige pricing.

They started with the XLR (more expensive than SC430), and continued with the 2007 Escalade (more expensive than GL450). I think CTS-V is an appropriate place to take it to the next level. It's the type of car that enthusiastic customers will pay premiums for anyway.

Hopefully, in ten years or so, people will be used to the idea of Cadillacs commanding the same price as MB or BMW. It's hard to be truly prestigious when your customers come into your showroom in search of a relative bargain.

Everybody knows, if you want a Benz, it's going to cost you dearly. Cadillac would like to be the same.

And considering the horspower gap and larger interior space, the CTS-V is still a relative bargain.



BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 6/12/2008 8:38:12 PMView My AgentSpace
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pushrod - I know the XLR was more expensive, but drive a few years old and it rattles and shakes like it was put together with glue. As compared to a Mercedes SL or BMW 6-series, those vehicles are rock solid even after a few years to 10 years.

CTS-V is a bargain, but so is the M3 sedan. M3 sedan is a heck of a buy. pound for pound the best on the planet. I sat in the new CTS, I am 6'2", and although it is larger than the predessor it is not as big inside as a 5-series or E-class. Actually, shoulder room is alot less ( 3" in the rear and over 1" up front ) than even the M3. It also has less headroom in the rear seats than the M3. It really is a 3-series, Audi A4 , Mercedes C-class competitor ...



jasaerojasaero - 6/12/2008 11:12:20 PM
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So what JRobUSC is saying is that he is a follower and not a leader. He can only buy a car the pack has defined as the most desirable. He is a BADGE WHORE!


jasaerojasaero - 6/12/2008 11:19:49 PM
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As for BMW4me4ever the CTS has near identical dimensions to the 5. The smaller shoulder and headroom is simply a by product of the more extreme design of the CTS with more tumblehome and more couped out aft roof line.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 6/13/2008 7:54:36 AM
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jasaero, if you want to call me names that's fine. I said I thought the CTS-V would sell, and I like the car. HOWEVER, if it's my money and I am spending the same for the Caddy as I would for a BMW, Benz, or Audi (and when the CTS-V coupe comes out, you can add Porsche), I'd rather have one of those. That's just life, those are higher end brands than Cadillac and if money is the same, most people will choose them. You called me a follower instead of a leader. Well, when it comes to cars I want to DRIVE the leader, not BE one. I'll happily play "follow the leader" if it gets me the better vehicle, and those other cars ARE the leaders in the segment. But it's your money, do what you want with it. Just do yourself a few favors so people will take you more seriously:

1) Don't confuse "leader" with "rebel". Going against the norm just because you want to be different doesn't make you a leader.

2) Don't make excuses for the CTS's interior dimensions -- tumblehome and couped out roof? No. There's nothing coupe-like about the CTS sedan, it's just small inside considering how big it is outside.

3) Don't use the XLR as some kind of statement for how great Cadillac has become. The XLR is a sales disaster, the reviews are poor, and after a few years they rattle, creak, and groan like they're about to fall apart. That's not the car that's going to convince anyone Caddy is on the same playing field as "ze Germans", if anything it does the opposite.



CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 11:21:15 AM
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JROBUSC

You are an auto enthusiast in disguise. "BUT for the same money, I'd rather drive one of the German cars if for no other reason than they're more prestigious" Who CARES?? I own a 335i just because its a faster and better car than a g35. A year ago i wouldnt even consider a 330i over a g35, just because it was a worse performer. WHY should cadillac charge less than a m3???? Performace wise, the CTS-v Blows it out of the water, interior is MUCH NICER. The interior in my 335 is like a sad funeral home, where as the cadillacs and infinitis is much more exciting. A Co-worker of mine just pruchased the 300 hp cts, the guy owned last owned an a8 and then a 530i for the last 3 years. It took me 3 weeks to convince to go test drive one, and it took him one day after driving it, to decide to purchase it, the main resaon is his wife is also a Doctor, and her ego couldnt allow herself to jump from the german marks to Cadi. Once they drove it and their combined ignorance was overcome, they couldnt be happier with their dicision. I get thank yous everyday for opening there eyes.



StarStar - 6/13/2008 12:00:55 PM
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"nocommonsense" "I own a 335i just because its a faster and better car than a g35. A year ago i wouldnt even consider a 330i over a g35"

Those two sentences show that you are simply clueless when it comes to cars. If the reason you bought your BMW is because of the numbers , you bought it for the wrong reasons. The 330i is just as fabulous as the 335i, only slower. Slower doesn't mean is less of a car. The 330i is still a much better car than any Infiniti. The 328i is a much better car than the G37. Yes, the G37 is faster but so is the Pontiac G8. Does that make the Pontiac a better car than the BMW?
You are nothing but another living proof that the American car buyer is absolutely clueless when it comes to cars. CLULESS!



StarStar - 6/13/2008 2:51:46 PM
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"bulldogz",

I own three cars and one of them is a BMW 335i. Is a great car just like most of the cars made by BMW but so are the 328i and 330i models. They are practically the same car only with slower straight line acceleration. Are you so foolish to believe that the fact that they accelerate slower makes them bad cars?
Why are you here on these forums? Do you really enjoy showing of your ignorance every time you post?

Anyway, it appears that you intend to leave the forums so ...what can I say: don't let the door hit you on the way out.











CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 7:00:15 PM
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Star

Unfortunatly for you, my sentence shows exactly why i am pretty on point when it comes to automobiles and you on the other hand have lost a chromosome somewhere on this journey we call life.

"The 330i is still a much better car than any Infiniti" Really? let me inform you of somethings. the difference between the 335i and the 328 is not only speed. First the choice of transmission that are avalaible between the ZF and the Getreg. The suspensions are different. The wheels and tires are different. So essentially all the major componenets somehow differ, the engine, the transmissions, suspensions and tires!!!! Now if you have ever driven a g37 with a limited slip differential, you would understand what the F@#$ is going on. I buy my cars for dynamic capabilities and outright speed. I come out of corners in my 335i and CANT PUT THE POWER DOWN!!! because one wheels spins, wtf???? Yes the 325, had decent handling but who cares when it takes me 20 seconds to merge onto the highway or becuase i cant switch lanes to make the next turn becuase the house wife in her 4.0 liter dodge minivan decided to give it some gas f rom a stopligh, the later happened to my friend with me in the car. Have you seen the interior of the g? Infinitis have features i actually want to use. When i purchased my FX in 05, it had rearview camera, no keys needed to start the car, birds eye nav that put our companies BMW 750li to shame, better handling, more power and better looks than a 3.0 x5. Mean while the bmw delear was flaunting the x5 3.0's 150 mph capable autobahn windshield wipers, to bad he didnt know the car tops out at like 129. Just so you realize, more than half of the people on e90 post.com who own 335i never considering purchasing a bmw previous to that, Why? your ignorant ass asks? because of the ability to modify the twin turbos and extract huge hp and torque figures for around 1000 dollars. What does that mean, they want power. Yes bmw's have a great trade of between handling and smoothness, but enthusiast dont care about that, 2500 dollars will turn most cars cars into 1.0 g handlin machines, more than any BMW. So if you really think a week ass 325 with no features, fake leather and 16 inch wheels was better than the old generation g35, or that the overpriced 328 can hang with a new g35, when it comes to dynamic perforamnce combined with a huge difference in straightline speed, then your on crack. I say no to the weaker, less reliable, no technology whatsoever, more expensive 328.



CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/13/2008 7:08:23 PM
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P.S Love the "nocommonsense", really clever.


StarStar - 6/13/2008 7:49:05 PM
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"The wheels and tires are different. So essentially all the major componenets somehow differ, the engine, the transmissions, suspensions and tires"

LOL....are you for real? I cannot stop laughing. Wheels and tires are different? Ha, ha, ha...Wheels and tires??? I'm not even going into that.
The engine is the SAME only turbocharged. Also, only the automatic transmission is different but then again what car enthusiasts buys a BMW with automatic transmission? Suspension?????? Ha, ha, ha...try again. It is absolutely identical buddy.
So I repeat the only difference between a 335i and a 328i or 330i is straight line speed. In fact the handling is slightly better in the 328i because the car weights less. I love it. Some of you guys really like to embarrass yourself on car forums.
By the way, you are welcome.



jasaerojasaero - 6/13/2008 8:14:36 PM
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JRob, how are you defining higher end was my point?? Nothing makes them higher end other than the herd of premium buyers and their brand preference. To me, high end is more the level of the product itself. The materials used and quality stadands they are built too. Along with refinement and performance of the produt. Ignoring brand image nonsense, Cadillac now IS a high end brand with a product like the new CTS and CTS-V in my book. I own a 2004 CTS-V and can't really call it a high end product, but I have driven a new CTS and that was a High end product, BAR NONE! Maybe not for everyones tastes, but at the same level performance, refinement, material, and quality wise as BMW, MB, or any of the other players. IT IS HIGH END!


CommonSense01CommonSense01 - 6/14/2008 2:59:00 AM
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Star


Wow. That whole paragraph you have managed to say nothing, except "HAHAH and LOLLL". REALLY??? your like a 12 year old school girl giggling at her new internet sexual predatore friend. Let me speak in terms that are more familiar to you. A naturally aspirated engine(less lol when drving) and a turbo engine (more lol) ARE NOT the same thing. Thats like saying a lancer and a lancer evolution have the same engine. Whats wrong with you? Then to answer your moronic question, The type of Auto enthusiast that buys a 335 with a automatic, is the one who wants to go faster than someone with a 6 speed manual (especially fater then someone with a big ego and cant shift anyway). But i love your spin on it. First you say nothing differs, now a N/A engine and a turbo is the same thing. And according to you a Getreg and a ZF is the same thing. Wheels and tires?? yes im seriuos, if you ever tracked your car, you would understand how important that is, espcially when you are on the brink of adhesion. Wheels and tires prob make the most difference, but you propably dont know anything about putting power to the ground. A propper wheel and tire package can easily add .04g's on the skidpad or a couple of miles to the slalom speed ( All of this is not so loll to you now , is it? Then to answer another one of your ignorant blurbs, the 335i has certain components in the control arm that differentiate it from the lesser 3's.



StarStar - 6/14/2008 10:27:25 AM
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I don't know what you are talking about. I'm saying it again. The only difference between a 328/330 and 335i is straight line speed. The rest are cosmetic differences. Everything is the same suspension, transmission(manual), engine(of course, the engine is modified how else would be faster in a straight line).
Same car with a modified(twin-turbocharged engine), nothing else. When it comes to the automatic we can agree that the difference is clear between the slushbox in the 328i and the "automatic manual"in the 335i.



StarStar - 6/14/2008 10:44:05 AM
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Anyway, I did choose the 335i over the 328i just based on the insane performance of the twin-turbocharged engine. Just wanted to clarify for you that there are no other differences(except cosmetic or standard equipment of course)between the two cars. A claim like 328i or 330i are bad and 335i is great is at the least ridiculous. Same car, different amount of horsepower. That's all.


DasAutoDasAuto - 6/12/2008 6:56:55 PM
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Give me a supercharged/turbocharged M3, RS4 or C63 thanks

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