Agent009
Agent009
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
View My AgentSpace

Print this Page | Digg It | del.icio.us

Can We Say We Told You So: Did Lexus Have An Ace In The Hole With The IS-F?

Unless you live under a rock you realize the cat is now out of the bag.

 

The Lexus IS-F has been tested by three different sources and the results are in. As you may remember I ran the data and posted a scenario a few weeks back and gave my take on the then hypothetical performance figure. I wonder then did The IS-F have an Ace in The Hole using an eight speed transmission? At that time I estimated my theoretical figures were accurate to around plus or minus 3%. A lot of you saw those figures and had to be picked up off the floor laughing and then you picked it apart. I am fine with that that is what we all do.

 

But how did I actually fare?

 

First, of all you have to realize that no two vehicles are alike nor are the conditions ever identical between separate test. But what we do have here, is three separate tests all with relative temperatures all on the same day. But since each vehicle and driver skill (the biggest error point) is a little different, it is appropriate to average those figures and then compare to my results.

 

First up were our good friends over at Edmunds Inside Line. Their obsidian example clocked a 0-60 of 4.8 seconds and a ¼ mile of 13.2 seconds. Not too bad I might say.

 

The second review was the renowned Car and Driver Magazine staff. Their silver IS-F tripped the lights with a 0-60 of only 4.2 seconds and a 0-100 time 9.8 seconds. The ¼ mile ran though at a blistering 12.7 seconds as well. See what I mean about the driver being crucial?

 

The final review published was the team over at Motor Trend. They had an interesting red example that fell in the middle with a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds, a 0-100 of 10.5, and finished with a 13.0 second ¼ mile.

 

So where did my estimates fall in the mix? My initial 0-60 time came in at 4.4 seconds a bit optimistic maybe, but well within the actual performance figure range of 4.2 to 4.8 seconds. My 0-100 time was 10.5 seconds exactly as tested by Motor Trend. My estimated ¼ mile time was 13.0 second again matched to the second by Motor Trend and smack in the middle of the others.

 

But what about the error margin the skeptics ask? Lets lay it out and see and then you can tell us.

 

 

Lexus IS-F Test Results

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seconds

Seconds

Seconds

MPH

 

0-60

0-100

1/4 mile

Trap Speed

Motor Trend

4.70

10.50

13.00

111.70

Car And Driver Magazine

4.20

9.80

12.70

114.00

Edmunds Inside Line

4.80

N/A

13.20

109.00

Overall Averages

4.57

10.15

12.97

111.57

 

 

 

 

 

AutoSpies Estimates

4.40

10.50

13.00

110.10

Delta

0.17

-0.35

-0.03

1.47

Error Margin

3.65%

-3.45%

-0.26%

1.31%

 

Not bad shooting if you ask me for taking figures and running them through a series of formulas? While we were slightly outside of my estimates of 3% with two of the averages, both of those figures were either matched or beaten by at least one of the actual test cars. I was particularly surprised that my quarter mile estimate was within 1% and the trap speed was off by less than 1.5% from the average.

 

So you tell us were we right, or wrong?

 

Did Lexus Have an Ace in the Hole with the IS-F and the eight speed transmission?

 

All I can say is you might want to believe me next time I post an estimate.

 

009

 

 

 

 


Can We Say We Told You So: Did Lexus Have An Ace In The Hole With The IS-F?



Comments:

Images hosted in your AgentSpace can now be posted in the comments section using the following syntax (case matters):
[img]IMAGE URL[/img]
Example: [img]http://agent004.myautospies.com/users/150/Sample-Gallery/sample1.JPG[/img]

DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:01:12 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
From these initial reports, the IS-F seems quite a bit more than just HOT compact super-car field, and as far as pricing goes, the Lexus makes the others look very over-priced...

GREAT JOB, even if the naysayers refuse to just accept that LEXUS has Arrived!


The tides, they are a'changing!


reply to this comment
Agent009Agent009 - 10/24/2007 2:09:12 PMView My AgentSpace
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
The tide may be changing, but the Germans will put up a fight that Lexus will have to address.

The key is here, is that the Germans regularly up the ante on performance almost every year or two, while Lexus puts it out and sits for up to three to four years. This locking in is great for profit but hard on performance. So it will boil down to a war of profit vs winning in the class.



DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:18:56 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Huh?

We're already at a point where compact-sports sedans are performing nearly on-par with out-right super cars!

It really has become little more than bragging rights in this segment, when speaking in raw numbers, as these vehicles are all capable of feats that the vast majority of their owners will/can never exploit.

I strongly believe that when real word considerations are taken into account, such as reliability, dealer-service, day-to-day drive-ability...

We'll be seeing quite a few these parked where once were German makes.



DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 3:19:18 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Note: As If De-Boosting posts will somehow diminish LEXUS' brilliant effort here...

Note: I'd swear 90% of the members here are 10 years old.



david999david999 - 10/24/2007 5:24:35 PM
+6 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost

You got that right Daharder. By the way, good math work on your part 009.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 7:22:52 PMView My AgentSpace
-3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"...and as far as pricing goes, the Lexus makes the others look very over-priced..."

I simply do not understand what you're talking about here. A $5K price difference makes the rest look "very overpriced?" If that's the price of a well-thought-out suspension, I'd take it.



DaHarderDaHarder - 10/25/2007 12:34:59 AM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
^ Once you've sent extensive time owning/driving the IS-F, then I'll consider your claims of 'inferior suspension this or that' credible, until then...

Just Leave It Alone Until YOU HAVE!

The Germans are not the only manufacturers cable of producing desirable vehicles, and this FACT really seems to elude you for some reason.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/25/2007 10:00:18 PMView My AgentSpace
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
PLEASE, read the rest of my comments!


Will_Will_ - 10/25/2007 10:53:17 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
It eludes him because he lives in a VAG bubble, where VWs are more reliable than Toyotas, and where all Audis are better than all Lexus by default.


stash84stash84 - 10/26/2007 7:29:21 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
can someone plz post the prices of the cars that are being compared to the isf?


utahnkidutahnkid - 10/26/2007 10:05:14 PM
0 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Super-car? You need to do some googeling bud.. Look up Bugatti, Carrera GT, Saleen TT, Murcielago, Mclaren F1... The IS-F is pretty amazing.. But pretty far from super-car


DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:09:30 PM
-3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Nothing Concrete/Relevant is My Guess...

reply to this comment
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 2:16:57 PMView My AgentSpace
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Its about time. Competition doesnt hurt anybody. I dont see this however as a "serious" threat to AMG, M, or RS. Great car though.

reply to this comment
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 2:20:10 PMView My AgentSpace
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Another thing... What about handling, braking, and other factors which are not mentioned? Im curious to know how those stack up to the others.

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:23:07 PM
-5 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"I dont see this however as a "serious" threat to AMG, M, or RS"

^ There's Your Answer... Atypically - With Explanation.


reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:41:08 PM
-6 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 2:42:11 PMView My AgentSpace
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
DaHarder

Well its not. Period. This car is already outperformed by other in the segment. Hence it isnt overthrowing any other product but merely offering at most an equal(being optimistic) aletrnative.


reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:51:13 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
What you're not taking in to account is that in the area of 'Total Customer Satisfaction', Lexus already has documented/distinct advantage over most other manufacturers, and even if the IS-F merely 'EQUALS' the competition, that fact in addition to the already sterling Lexus reliability/satisfaction reputation, might well be enough to persuade many potential buyers to 'Make The Switch'.

Note: There's so much more to owning/enjoying a performance car than the raw numbers could ever reveal.


reply to this comment
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 3:03:58 PMView My AgentSpace
-1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"Note: There's so much more to owning/enjoying a performance car than the raw numbers could ever reveal."

Very True. You really think Lexus doesnt care more about numbers than making a true sports car?

"sterling Lexus reliability/satisfaction reputation,"

More like lackluster and overhyped during the recent times. Have u missed all the recalls? or maybe the fact that several of their new cars tested below average?


reply to this comment
mkk21mkk21 - 10/24/2007 3:05:35 PMView My AgentSpace
-6 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
You know the German boys are going to bring up the issue about the handling or the styling. "This car looks like crap!" "BMW is known for their 50/50 weight distribution." "Sure Lexus is fast as a bullet, but nothing can corner like a BMW." Blah, blah, blah....

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 3:25:07 PM
0 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
^ and they'll all come across as nothing more than WINY Children Threatened of the New Kid in Class because he's just a bit Smarter/Better Looking/More Athletic.

It's all so comically juvenile really, especially given that many of these so-called 'FANS' have never, and probably never will own any of the vehicles in question.

Again...Great Job LEXUS!


reply to this comment
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 3:41:58 PMView My AgentSpace
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Mid engine

Shut up! Are u serious about those exhausts? what a joke. Now thats real Rice. With the Germans Form follows Function.

DaHarder

I love how you try to be brave by sticking it up for the little guy. Cute. Youre like the Al Sharpton of Lexus. Nice work


reply to this comment
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 4:32:44 PMView My AgentSpace
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Midengine

I know, the "shut up" was a sarcastic comment on my behalf. Relax buddy I really like your posts and agree with you.


reply to this comment
S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 7:28:47 PMView My AgentSpace
-4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"Note: There's so much more to owning/enjoying a performance car than the raw numbers could ever reveal."

You're definitely right. And it has a LOT more to do with the way the car handles than the reliability. This is where the IS-F is a bit disappointing. For the third time, I say I will drive it--and I loved the Motor Trend review. But Edmunds reported a harsh suspension that isn't easy to live with. This is not true of the German sedans, and this is why I'd probably end up with one of them over the IS-F. Mind you, if the IS-F was truly superior, I would buy it, no questions asked. I honestly do not care about the badge. But it just so happens that the cars those German badges are attached to do a lot more than impress the neighbors.

DaHarder, I must say that you are being a complete hypocrite. You never miss a beat when it comes to pointing out others' opinions, and that they are simply opinions--but this is true in your posts here, too. The IS-F is just not the right car for some people. It's impressive, definitely. But it's not a well-rounded piece. It's not a car that's easy to drive every day. That's why I would rather have an RS4, M3 or C63 AMG. They don't compromise their suspensions for performance.


reply to this comment
S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 11:32:22 PMView My AgentSpace
-3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Okay, I GET IT!!! You can stop posting that now! But don't disregard the rest of my comment! BTW, it was directed towards DaHarder...

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/25/2007 12:20:10 AM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
S4, and I forgot that you were (obviously either) on the LEXUS development team, or privileged enough to have extensively driven this vehicle already as to add validity to your claims that,

"it's not a well-rounded piece. It's not a car that's easy to drive every day"

How the heck would you know without having lived with it... or even driven it?

Sad Really...


reply to this comment
S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/25/2007 12:32:42 AMView My AgentSpace
0 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
I don't, I'm judging by the reviews. It's quite obvious. However, I know better now, from the other two reviews. My comment still stands. Yours is still opinionated. Some people may just prefer the German vehicles, if you are able to accept that. The IS-F is awesome and (for the fifth time!) I will drive it, but you should understand that I'm going to take it just as seriously as the rest. You seem to think I'm more biased than I actually am. I may prefer one thing over an other... but doesn't everybody? That doesn't make me (or you) biased.

reply to this comment
OblivObliv - 10/25/2007 8:19:45 PM
-4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Fake exhausts...haha.

Why spend millions making a car and put fake crap all over it? Why anyone would buy a car with that on it is beyond me.


reply to this comment
Audi4LifeAudi4Life - 10/24/2007 2:07:56 PM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
when lexus arrives...the tides seem to go away...

reply to this comment
Audi4LifeAudi4Life - 10/24/2007 2:10:40 PM
-1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
concerning the article though, ye these are some good times but will the viewers prefer it to the rest? even if the rest cost more?

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 2:43:17 PM
-4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Sorry, I'm not Nostradamus, and can't predict how this vehicle will be received in the coming months/years...

Hint: No One Can.



w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 2:13:33 PMView My AgentSpace
-7 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
All I know for sure is one thing, this is the BEST Lexus ever! period.

reply to this comment
LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/24/2007 2:24:44 PM
-7 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
best is subjective...

i would think the RX400h could be a contender since it was the first hybrid luxury suv on the market that had original EPA estimates of 30ish in town.

another could be the LS460. 8 speed, perfect 10 on the cnet rating.

but yeh, in the performance category, this is the best lexus evarrrr



johannasjohannas - 10/24/2007 2:26:57 PM
-10 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Why stop there? Best product ever.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 7:30:49 PMView My AgentSpace
0 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
It is the best Lexus ever, by my standards. The LS460 is nice, too, but it's a bit sedated.


OblivObliv - 10/25/2007 8:21:03 PM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
I sure hope for Lexus's sake its not.


Will_Will_ - 10/25/2007 11:26:28 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Depends on vehicle ownership priorities, as always. Clearly you value performance/handling, while others value luxury/comfort.

On that note, I finally get to point out that Lexus can now truly hang with the Germans on performance. Lexus can build a car as wafty as an S-Class, and as hard-edged as an M3. All that's left is a supercar, which will be resolved with the LF-A, and diesel/economy cars which is supposedly to be resolved by the end of the decade.



JRobUSCJRobUSC - 10/24/2007 2:17:19 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
is this a surprise? I am pretty sure everyone expected it to be quick. The IS350 is quick. I actually thought it would be quicker, but the RS4, M3, and C63 are all just as quick as this is.

reply to this comment
M35MTM35MT - 10/24/2007 2:17:32 PMView My AgentSpace
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Very impressive 009. When I read the articles this morning I realized how close your calculations were.



reply to this comment
Agent009Agent009 - 10/24/2007 2:59:49 PMView My AgentSpace
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Thanks, I toiled over the figures quite a bit realizing a fire storm might ensue.

But after verifying the results independently, I felt were were on the right track. So I stuck my neck out there.



lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/24/2007 11:24:41 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Boy is spelled B-O-Y, not B-O-I. What language are you speaking?

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/25/2007 12:39:07 AM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
In some circles, usually teens and early twenty-somethings, spelling BOY as B O I is a colloquialism, of sorts.

Just thought you should know...


reply to this comment
lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/25/2007 8:39:01 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
I know it too. It just bugs me that people put an "i" when they could just as easily put a "y".

reply to this comment
LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/24/2007 2:22:25 PM
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
solid run and effort for lexus. whether or not it beats the others in comparison tests, i think the editors will be surprised by what lexus has come up with.

reply to this comment
RS4inPARS4inPA - 10/24/2007 2:23:08 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
overpriced....ugly....rice!

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/25/2007 2:12:09 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
^ Unintelligible... Immature... Gibberish!


530N52530N52 - 10/24/2007 2:24:05 PM
+6 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Fast for sure. Good news for those who like the Lexus drive and styling.

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 3:32:00 PM
-1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Exactly...

The worst thing that LEXUS can achieve with this vehicle is to expand its already very happy/loyal customer base.

Maybe that's why so many 'appear' to be so threatened by the appearance of this vehicle.

Note: One Theory.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 7:32:30 PMView My AgentSpace
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
DaHarder, I don't think anyone is "threatened" by this car. If we like it, we buy it. We're not simply German fans, we're car fans. Of course there are a certain few exceptions on this site, but most are not among them. If this car is amazing it will end up in my garage.


EL34EL34 - 10/24/2007 2:41:57 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
If I won this car in a contest I would sell it and get a BMW M3.

EL34 ;)


reply to this comment
lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/24/2007 11:26:20 PM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Well...isn't that nice?


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 11:34:29 PMView My AgentSpace
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
The IS-F will have better resale, so you may as well put it towards an M5.


Ironman273Ironman273 - 10/24/2007 2:42:02 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
We'll see how it stacks up in the long run. People hate change, though. I don't know how many of you were around in 1989 but it was interesting seeing the response from the Germans that the Japanese were going to try luxury. This is their first real try at the extreme performance/luxury segment. It couls be a swing and a miss or 1989 all over again. Only time will tell.

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 3:35:19 PM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
I don't believe that (by the caliber/quality) of posts in here sometimes that many were even alive in 1989.

Who Knows?



WhelanWhelan - 10/24/2007 2:46:57 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Great article!

Finally someone else who agrees that driver ability is crucial when dealing with cars of this nature.

This also puts the car right up to par with the M3, RS4 so we will have to see their overall review. Most likely they will end up putting the M3 in first because of it's heritage and their backfilled pockets. But the debate is endless and you will soon see videos all over youtube of RS4, IS-F, M3 races. And someone in one of the cars will video the other guy slowing down for traffic or whatever and call it a HUGE win and what not. Either way, the IS-F is definitely a competitor in the performance spectrum.


reply to this comment
S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/24/2007 7:34:34 PMView My AgentSpace
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Actually, the C63 AMG and RS4 have given the M3 a huge run for its money. The RS4 has beaten the M3 in at least half of the comparison tests they've been involved in... and I have no doubt that the C63 is just as good, if not better.


KingerKinger - 10/25/2007 5:01:59 AM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"Most likely they will end up putting the M3 in first because of it's heritage and their backfilled pockets."

So it has nothing to do with the fact that the M3 is an excelent car then? The fact that BMW wins many comparisons tests is because their cars are made for people who enjoy driving just for the sake of driving. I would think that most car magazine reviews are of that ilk.



Will_Will_ - 10/25/2007 11:34:38 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
I will be truly surprised, AND officially convinced of bias if the new M3 wins every single comparison test. Many initial reviews have flat-out said that it's not the best M3 it could have been, and that some of it's "magic" has been traded for comfort. A few have even stated the RS4 is better. And now we have all this information on the IS-F out which does not disappoint. All that AND the C63 is said to give the M3 a serious run for the money as well. If the M3 wins every single comparison test it is placed in, then we will all know that something fishy is up.


StarStar - 10/24/2007 3:09:08 PM
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Yes, in a straight line the IS-F is on par with the phenomenal German Trio ...but so is a modified Ford Mustang. Where Lexus or the Mustang don't come even close is driving experience. So my question is..why would somebody choose the IS-F over the magnificent trio from Germany? The IS-F looks cartoonish, the steering gives no feedback, the suspension is c**p, the built quality is poor, the prestige is nonexistent. There is absolutely no reason to choose this car over the superior cars it supposedly competes with, other than price. Again, Lexus comes on the market with a car that tries to mimic the qualities of the fabulous German performance cars but never quite matches them. Why have a modest copy of a great product when you can have the real thing for a little more?

reply to this comment
w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 3:13:17 PMView My AgentSpace
-3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Star.

OMG did u just tell it like it is? lol Thats going to upset a lot of people (good thing) Good points!



LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/24/2007 3:24:11 PM
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
telling it how it is? poor build quality?

people, vote no on medical marijuana



LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/24/2007 3:35:37 PM
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
just edmunds though, not motortrend nor car and driver


Agent009Agent009 - 10/24/2007 3:36:04 PMView My AgentSpace
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Obviously straight line performance is only a small portion of the over performance factor. But it is the most easily predicted.

Actually it is very easy for a car to outscore another in all of the static tests (acceleration, braking, slalom, cornering g force) and still lose overall.

It is all about balance and only a track can determine that.



LavicLavic - 10/24/2007 8:12:28 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Where are those test numbers (is250 xpackaged vs. M3) 'cause that sounds very interesting to me?


E46CarbonBlack333E46CarbonBlack333 - 10/24/2007 3:27:17 PM
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Waitting for the review for E92 335 Vs Lexus IS-F.

reply to this comment
DaHarderDaHarder - 10/24/2007 3:40:53 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
What?

Sorry to break it to you, but the IS-F competes DIRECTLY with the M3... Not The 335i.



w209w114w209w114 - 10/24/2007 4:01:57 PMView My AgentSpace
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
DaHarder

Brilliant deduction!



HyundaiHyundai - 10/28/2007 12:18:02 AM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Waiting for you to graduate middle school..


Auto_expertAuto_expert - 10/24/2007 3:30:46 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Why not just a modified WRX STi or Civic or Lancer EVO? You the get same garbage ricer style with the same performance, plus you can save some green!

Honestly though, Lexus should worry about Infiniti, Acura, and Hyundai. The Japanese and Germans have totally different driving characteristics. It's like comparing apples with oranges.

I think it's a mistake for Lexus to try compete with the Germans when it's not their game. You either like one or the other. I don't see either side winning many converts.

How many times have we heard this NEW IS (3-series killer) is the nail in the coffin for BMW? Everytime a new one comes out. Same goes for the G35. Give it a rest! Just focus on your reliability Toyota, since that's taken a turn for the worse lately.


reply to this comment