Carbon Copy? Lexus To Spawn Prius Clone!

Yep, yet another REBADGE.

— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 12:52:01 PM | | Votes: 14   

Where do you get anywhere from this article that the Lexus will be a Prius clone? The Lexus will be entirely different other than being based on the same platform. Trying to stir up **** again.

— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 12:59:25 PM | | Votes: -8   

oh and mitch...you dont happen to work at lexus of marin, the marin like across from the GG bridge do you? i bought my IS300 there in 2002 from a sales lady named Patricia? actually not sure if that was her name. lol

— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 1:32:39 PM | | Votes: -10   

The source is from Motor Trend, so the speculation centered from there.

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 2:14:41 PM | | Votes: 12   

"The Lexus will be entirely different other than being based on the same platform."

same platform, same drivetrain...new sheetmetal and leather do not make it entirely different. it's no different than ES/camry.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 3:18:42 PM | | Votes: 11   

What part of the original article states "carbon copy"?

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 4:10:20 PM | | Votes: -10   

Yes Lexus kind of guy- Patricia did work here in 2002. Small world!

— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 4:20:20 PM | | Votes: -6   

im assuming she doesnt work there anymore? she was a good saleswomen, very pushy. she kidna guilted me into buying the damn car. lol i guess thats her job though

— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 5:42:34 PM | | Votes: -5   

the lexus haters are out in force now!

note the deboosts for mitch and lexus for a mere innocent, innocuous exchange.

i 'spose i'll get deboosts too, for pointing at the haters.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 2:36:22 AM | | Votes: 0   

platform sharing is not rebadging. It is done by practically every mfr, and is smart business.

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 12:11:25 PM | | Votes: -1   

Seriously though. The original arcticle contains three small paragraphs. Not one of which contains the words "carbon copy".

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 2:15:07 PM | | Votes: -2   

Its not based on any toyota,or Lexus model.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:59:08 PM | | Votes: -5   

and i thought Lexus was a separate company now lol.. obviously not. i know someone who is part of the marketing team here in Canada for Lexus. You would be surprised on how many parts they still share.

rebadged or not, lexus has come a long way and used the Germans to do it. I'm a German fan till the end although I still own my LS460. But I also have an S class the benchmark of luxury in this segment IMO.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 8:14:40 PM | | Votes: 3   

But I garuantee you there are people who want to buy a Prius to feel good about themselves, but they dont want to part with their luxury cars.

It will sell.

— M35MT (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 12:55:36 PM | | Votes: 14   

I'm sure you know what makes sense,but then you would be running a multi-billion dollar company instead of playing with yourself.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 5:59:21 PM | | Votes: -3   

The hush hush works for them and against them as well...IMHO

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 2:15:34 PM | | Votes: 3   

Lexus of UK released this statement to back up my point

"The car would be aimed at well-to-do individuals who are after a roomy sedan but not prepared to step up to a car the size of the GS. Mid-sized D-segment models are ideal for families and when combined with Lexus’ luxury and quality standards, could be a real winner for fans of hybrids and non-hybrids alike.

“We’ll add a specific hybrid model and leave the IS as a sports petrol and diesel. There will be more focus on interior space than on sports styling and it will have more boot space,” Settle revealed.
"

— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 10:59:48 PM | | Votes: -2   

How is it a mistake to have an entry luxury as the entry models have become so out of reach? For Lexus, of course their entry should be a hybrid, and of course it should share a platform with an existing vehicle, otherwise it would be prohibitively expensive, as the BMW 1 is.

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 4:14:18 PM | | Votes: -8   

Because a Prius based Lexus?! The Prius is arguably the ugliest Toyota so a Lexus version will tarnish their badge.

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 8:53:26 PM | | Votes: -7   

it is only OPINION and generally the haters' opinion, that the prius is ugly. many think it is beautiful.

take it and ANY handful of other current cars (excepting only the italian exotics) and plop them in a culture of auto innocents/non-sophicticates. it will stand out as the car MOST 21st century!

everything else looks SOOO 20th century by comparison.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 2:44:03 AM | | Votes: -4   

The Prius is gorgeous, it is unique, artfully styled, futuristic and Lexus could do a lot worse than to bas a model off its platform. Besides sharing a platform says nothing about what it will look like. Toyota is not GM or Ford.

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 12:00:46 PM | | Votes: -4   

XYZZ,
look at my username. I'm definitely not a hater. I just think that the Prius is very grotesque.

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 2:15:02 PM | | Votes: -4   

'the Prius is gorgeous...' LOL!
You're either stupid, high, or a liar.

— pushrod27 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:48:20 PM | | Votes: -1   

resorting to ad hominem attacks again.....
Is that really the best you can come up with?

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:58:21 PM | | Votes: -4   

No, Lexus will make it look good, don't worry.

— LexusLion (View Profile)

Posted on 3/10/2008 5:33:32 AM | | Votes: 1   

"Infiniti's are re-badged Nissan's, Acura's are re-badged Honda's, Audi's are re-badged VW's."

totally accurate. and a BMW is a BMW. and a mercedes is a mercedes.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 3:21:36 PM | | Votes: 2   

LOL! Obama gets deboosting for speaking basic TRUTHS!

ALL the snotty germy brands have cheapo, entry level models with, get this, FOUR BANGER ENGINES.

at least EVERY LEXUS, to say nothing of many TOYOTA models, comes with at least a v6. (sole exception being the is200, just for econominded europeans.)

a v6 incidentally, that is more powerful, even in the TOYOTAs, than any like sized, non-boosted euro engine.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 2:54:52 AM | | Votes: -7   

in the case of the new MB Smart car, actually a THREE-cylinder engine!

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:07:14 AM | | Votes: -7   

GoObama and XYZZ are full of it. I can best describe you two as complete IDIOTS who have no idea about the European luxury market. Or perhaps, "trolls".

Maybe you two morons need to stop watching MTV and actually leave the US for a change and visit Europe. There are a number of factors in Europe that create a demand for small premium cars / small and efficient engines. These are mainly a lack of parking spaces, small and narrow streets, expensive fuel prices, engine capacity taxes and God knows what else. If these same forces were at work in the US, trust me, there would be a shifting demand towards smaller and more efficient luxury cars. The fact that Lexus doesn't adapt to the European market is baffling to me. Now I already know what your reply will be. "Oh in 20 years Lexus will own the European market so they don't have to adapt.....bla bla bla..."

I love how you two morons think that the fact that Lexus doesn't have a 4-cylinder means they have more "prestige". Prestige is established through history, and well all know Lexus can't compete with Mercedes and BMW in that department. And for your information, the Lexus IS220d uses a 4-cylinder engine from the Toyota Avensis. Should I repeat that?

THE LEXUS IS220d USES A 4-CYLINDER DIESEL ENGINE FROM THE TOYOTA AVENSIS.

There you go. Whoops, I just lowered myself you your level of stupidity. I'm sure the IS220d is a good car, and I am sure that the 1 series, A class or whatever and their respective engines are great cars too. I rented an A180 CDI in Europe last year and I was very impressed with the car. Despite my abusive driving style I still managed nearly 41 mpg during long highway cruises with some city driving included. And the car was also far from slow. Maybe you two idiots need to drive them first, then comment.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 7:22:50 AM | | Votes: 1   

"at least EVERY LEXUS, to say nothing of many TOYOTA models, comes with at least a v6. (sole exception being the is200, just for econominded europeans.)"

Every Lexus? You just proved how stupid you are. The IS220d is a 4-cylinder and the IS200 had a 2.0 6-cylinder engine. Can you say MORON?



"a v6 incidentally, that is more powerful, even in the TOYOTAs, than any like sized, non-boosted euro engine."

Incredible (your stupidity).

Which Toyota V6 are you comparing to which Euro "non-boosted engines" please? You know what: Who cares?

Comparing a Toyota V6 from say the Camry to a base Euro car is pretty stupid. Furthermore I don't see what is so special about a V6? There are modern 4-cylinders that have the refinement of a 6-cylinder engine and yet deliver better fuel economy. Also, you think bragging about a Toyota V6 is "cool"? Using your stupid comparison (Toyota V6 to non-boosted base Euro engine), the Toyota V6 will release more emissions and burn more fuel. Are you really proud of that?

Oh wait, I forgot I am talking to a stupid Lexus/Toyota fanboy.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 7:27:51 AM | | Votes: 3   

willi-nillis:

""at least EVERY LEXUS, to say nothing of many TOYOTA models, comes with at least a v6. (sole exception being the is200, just for econominded europeans.)"

"Every Lexus? You just proved how stupid you are. The IS220d is a 4-cylinder and the IS200 had a 2.0 6-cylinder engine. Can you say MORON?"

did i not qualify my statement, 'with the sole exception of the is200'? so i should've said is220. big deal. we don't get EITHER in america.

can you say ILLITERATE idiot?



""a v6 incidentally, that is more powerful, even in the TOYOTAs, than any like sized, non-boosted euro engine."

"Incredible (your stupidity).

"Which Toyota V6 are you comparing to which Euro "non-boosted engines" please? You know what: Who cares?"


the 3.5 toyota v6, which puts of 268 hp. all the euro v6s have hp in just the 230 - 260 range, and have to resort to turbos or TWIN turbos to surpass this NATURALLY ASPIRATED high output toy v6.


"There are modern 4-cylinders..."

yes and many are made by toyota and honda too. why did Lotus choose to install a TOYOTA 1.8 Four in the Elise. dumping the euro made 4 used previously?

bottom line STILL remains: there are poseurs/cheapskate BADGE WHORES who like to bask in the "prestige" of certain brands but get the SMALLEST/CHEAPEST RUNNING engine offered in that "prestige brand." i wonder how many of these folk get passed by on the Autobahn by "mere" toyotas!? LOL!

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 1:47:52 AM | | Votes: -5   

to say nothing of Lexi, of course.

when someone sees an LS looming up in his rear view, at least he will KNOW there's a v8 under the 'bonnet' and won't hesitate to let it pass.

not unlike seeing say an S-class and wondering if there's only a 6 or a diesel powering it!

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 1:53:41 AM | | Votes: -6   

"Every Lexus? You just proved how stupid you are. The IS220d is a 4-cylinder and the IS200 had a 2.0 6-cylinder engine. Can you say MORON?"


actually, if i'm not mistaken, the IS200 if based on the japan model, IS A FOUR as well. a high-output, sporty four that was preferred by many over the slower turning Six.

it is the IS250 that went to Six cylinders. DOLT!

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 2:09:36 AM | | Votes: -6   

"the 3.5 toyota v6, which puts of 268 hp. all the euro v6s have hp in just the 230 - 260 range, and have to resort to turbos or TWIN turbos to surpass this NATURALLY ASPIRATED high output toy v6."


You have got to be kidding me. You're highlighting the Toyota Camry V6 as "special" because it makes 268-horsepower and no European V6 can match it? That's some funny sh*t right there. Seriously how old are you?

Tell me something, is the Camry V6 even sold in Japan? Europe? No. It's sold in North America, the Middle East and Australia. These are places where there is a demand for powerful engines. Big deal. Toyota created this engine for those markets. The European V6 engines are primarily created for Europe and a global market which means they have to be balanced in terms of power output, emissions etc.

Bottom line, I couldn't care less about your Camry V6. If the Camry was really supposed to be a "normal family sedan" it wouldn't need an overpowered, gas-guzzling V6 engine anyway. Incredible how full of crap Toyota marketing is with their claims of being a "green company".




"yes and many are made by toyota and honda too. why did Lotus choose to install a TOYOTA 1.8 Four in the Elise. dumping the euro made 4 used previously?"


Maybe you should drive a BMW 1.8 4-cylinder? Or the new Mercedes 1.8-l Supercharged 4-cylinder with TwinPulse, because those are some of the finest, most refined 4-cylinders I have ever experienced. Heck, even the Peugeot 206cc I drove last summer in Europe had a wonderful 4-cylinder engine under the hood.

Honda in my book makes much better 4-cylinders than Toyota. In fact I sampled the current Camry in 4-cylinder form and I was not impressed with the refinement. The car wasn't slow but the refinement was terrible. It felt like a 4-cylinder engine from the '80s. I am not kidding. Toyota 4-cylinder engines are durable, but refienement wise they've been nothing to brag about. And I should know, because I've also owned quite a few Toyota's in the '80s and early '90s.

And who cares if Lotus picked the Toyota 1.8-l engine? Should I give a damn that Tatra in India uses Mercedes-Benz engines? Or Ssangyong? The Toyota 1.8-l engine was picked primarily because it was one of the few 4-cylinder engines that could fit in the Lotus Elise engine bay. Look it up.




"bottom line STILL remains: there are poseurs/cheapskate BADGE WHORES who like to bask in the "prestige" of certain brands but get the SMALLEST/CHEAPEST RUNNING engine offered in that "prestige brand." i wonder how many of these folk get passed by on the Autobahn by "mere" toyotas!? LOL!"


First of all, it is my understanding that Toyota doesn't even have any powerful engines in Europe (no V6's). The majority of their sales come from the Aygo, Yaris, Auris and possibly the Corolla with a few Avensis and a handful of SUV's or pickups. None of these cars, except the SUV's, come with a 6-cylinder engine. Next, a base 318i or an E class with a 4-

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 5:33:49 AM | | Votes: 7   

ill be second. ive been trying to find a high end hybrid for a while. dont want to go with the prius or camry because well...they are toyotas, but i dont want to burn a hole in my wallet with the GS or LS. hopefully this will be around 45K loaded

— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 4:12:05 PM | | Votes: -7   

i'll be third. right after i have surgery to become a eunuch.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 5:19:35 PM | | Votes: 9   

this will be a followup on your surgery for a lobotomy?

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:01:12 AM | | Votes: -4   

The European luxury market is different from the North American one. Buyer expectations are completely different and illogical to Americans, who believe a luxury car must have leather and a powerful, yet inefficient engine.

BMW and Mercedes' do not sell cars in Europe priced in Toyota territory. They don't. No Toyota sold in Europe is compared to a BMW or Mercedes product.

Now tell me what is wrong with cloth seats or interiors? The Japanese use cloth seats in some of their most popular premium sedans sold only in the JDM market, namely the Toyota Crown, Toyota Century, Nissan President etc. Elsewhere in the world, people buy luxury cars with cloth seats and 4-cylinder engines.

Only the ignorant American, like yourself, complains about something they don't understand..

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 4:40:29 PM | | Votes: 7   

Well said, EH.

Member Autopro is a known forum idiot, I wouldn't take everything he says too seriously.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 4:45:19 PM | | Votes: 1   

Everyone has a different idea of luxury.

One region's idea of it is no better than the other.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 5:27:27 PM | | Votes: -3   

And you don't get roll up windows in any Audi, BMW or Mercedes...hubcaps occasionally (ie on the 1, A3 and A class), but they all have good quality interiors, and the traditional values of their makers.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 5:38:22 PM | | Votes: 8   

You know, I once read that some Europeans consider the overstuffed luxury cars (in terms of gadgets) we have here in the US to be "overkill".

Maybe some Europeans members can enlighten us. Rupert?

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 6:28:14 PM | | Votes: 7   

THEY EVEN USE MERCEDES FOR TAXI CABS,ALL I SAID IS THE SELL ALOT OF STRIPPED DOWN CARS IN EUROPE,THAT CAN'T BE COMPARED TO U.S. LUXURY CARS,AND THEIR LESS EXPENSIVE.YOU GUYS ARE THE IDIOTS!!!!!!!!

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 6:31:04 PM | | Votes: -7   

Autopro - LEARN SOME GRAMMAR

I think many luxury cars are "overkill", and Americans do get a obscene amount of kit for their money. An example - here in Europe, keyless go is optional on every single Mercedes - it isn't standard, ever. Many Europeans just don't see the point (Neither do I). Things like leather are also often optional - even on the E clas size cars it is an option right up to the E550. Many fancy electronics take a longer time to catch on - for me, rear video cameras are pretty advanced and special. I think we tend to concentrate on the more "useful" tech ie Active cruise control - clever idea, but Lane Keep Assist - silly idea. Another point - the Self-Park in the LS is optional, and there has been little fuss over it and the VW system. People here don't like the idea of letting the car take over the driving.
American cars are also known for having a lot of standard kit for little money, but generally being of low quality.
The general thing is that gadgets do not a luxury car make.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 6:49:41 PM | | Votes: 8   

The usage of Mercedes' as taxi cabs actually enhanced their reputation, Autopro. Want to know why? Because the people who drove / rode [in] them were impressed with the way the car held up after all those years.

I was in Portugal a few years ago and I rode in a 1960s Mercedes diesel taxi with over 1 million km's on the tachometer. I even snapped a picture of it and the cab driver was very enthusiastic about his car. Although my ride in the car was only about 10 minutes long, I too became enthusiastic about the car and even admired it. A few hours later I was in another taxi, an early W124 E class and yet again I was impressed.

So maybe you should see things from a different perspective. You are trying to put Mercedes down since some of their cars are used as taxis, but the reality is that most people actually perceive this as some kind of honor that most taxi fleets PREFER a Mercedes product. Has been ever since the 1950s when places like Hong Kong even had Mercedes cars doing taxi jobs. And let's not forget that Mercedes' essentially made a car for taxi duty in the 1930s: the 260D.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 7:33:55 PM | | Votes: 4   

Nicely explained, Rupert.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 7:34:21 PM | | Votes: 6   

Autopro- I know it may be a little thing to you, but it might help 'a little' with your reputation of being a total dolt if you could figure out the meaning and appropriate use of
1.There
vs
2.Their
vs
3. They're

Good Luck with that.

— ICON (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 9:54:09 PM | | Votes: 6   

Willis, would those be the overstuffed luxury cars like BMWs with Internet access? Which will be sold in Germany beofre they hit the US. Yeah it's us crazy Americans demanding the gadgets from Germany, while you Europeans remain so practical.

I-Drive anyone......

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 12:05:31 PM | | Votes: -4   

I add that I think internet in cars is just the stupidest idea ever. You can't access it, you can't look at it...what are you supposed to do...live in your car? Sit in your garage on the internet? Never mind the fact that phones have internet nowadays, so people don't need cars with internet.
And overstuffed cars - cars sold in the US generally have more electronics in them, whatever their origins.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 5:26:13 PM | | Votes: 6   

"Willis, would those be the overstuffed luxury cars like BMWs with Internet access?"


It is my understanding that this will be OPTIONAL, not standard. Those who want it can get it. I don't need it.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 5:08:14 AM | | Votes: 5   

Rupet, I agree, but...

"An example - here in Europe, keyless go is optional on every single Mercedes - it isn't standard, ever. Many Europeans just don't see the point (Neither do I)."

It's the same way here. I don't think a single Merc is standard with keyless go, and although it's nice, it's not worth whatever Mercedes charges for it.

Also:

"Things like leather are also often optional - even on the E clas size cars it is an option right up to the E550."

That's almost true here, too. Pleather is standard on the E350 and E320 Bluetec.

Otherwise, yes, carry on.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 9:55:47 PM | | Votes: 1   

A small RWD hybrid sounds quite fun actually.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 2/25/2008 5:38:49 PM | | Votes: -2   

"Because bmw, mercedes, audi don't make cheap tiny cars with cloth interiors and tiny lawnmower engines in europe" is hardly a reason to make fun of a lexus prius.

what i was saying was that i would lambaste them if they just rebadged a prius. if you want a more luxurious prius, give it some leather, and slap a mini R2-D2 on the dash for when you need directions.

i think the camry is a fine car, but the ES is a joke.

i would view this in the same manner.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 12:04:33 AM | | Votes: 6   

why is the ES a joke? it only happens to outsell all its direct competitors. AND the lexus IS models to boot. not EVERYONE wants to be a boyracer, especially those who buy luxury cars.

by the same token, rwd is NOT god's gift to automobiledom. especially in low and moderate powered cars that won't break the tires loose under acceleration in any case.

people who live in snow country often PARK their rwd toys for the winter, and rely on the fwd cars instead.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:21:28 AM | | Votes: -7   

xyzz, the ES blows away the competition...like toyota avalons?

and i don't think rwd is god's gift to cars, just that fwd is a plague. i drive rwd 365 days/year in new england...with all season tires.

obama, i think the camry is a fine car for people who aren't into cars. you know, the buick crowd.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 10:15:16 AM | | Votes: 6   

you could argue that people that bought cadillacs in the 60's were indeed not into cars, but land going boats. so yes.

and what does racing fanaticism have to do with anything? you mention it twice.

lastly, your comment: "Put that in your little skull whenever you feel like making the boneheaded..." seems rather hostile.

the real obama would never be so spiteful and hostile.

perhaps you should rebadge and be known as GoCheney08

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 3:11:59 PM | | Votes: 7   

'95e34:

"xyzz, the ES blows away the competition...like toyota avalons?"

saleswise, OF COURSE! not like the avalons, but like the camrys.

i'm not saying, (and never did) that either blows away their competitors on a racetrack. only fanbois use that as the ultimate measure.

in the marketplace and in corporate boardrooms, the ONLY LASTING contest is on the sales charts.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 1:28:12 AM | | Votes: -6   

by that measure, mcdonalds makes the best burgers. they've sold billions of them right?

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 1:58:48 AM | | Votes: 8   

"it only happens to outsell all its direct competitors."

It only has one direct competitor, the Acura TL, and in that case, you're right... but you'd be surprised at how well the TL sells.

BMW sells twice as many 3 Series models as Lexus sells of its ES, and BMW sells a very small amount less 3er's every month than IS/ES combined.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/28/2008 8:08:51 PM | | Votes: 1   

i said before, the class is Entry level Luxury, NOT Entry level Sports Sedan. the C-class, a4, and assorted volvos and saabs also are in this class.

so the ES and IS are BOTH included; there is no real reason to think they are in SEPARATE classes.

and combined, they DO still outsell the 3ers.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 3/2/2008 3:58:46 AM | | Votes: 1   

stopped the rebadging?

RX? LX? ES?

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/27/2008 7:27:09 PM | | Votes: 1   

I see Huu76 is still as stupid and clueless as ever...

Some things never change, I guess.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 7:29:10 AM | | Votes: 6   

The Mercedes E320 CDI is one of the cleanest diesels in the world. With the Bluetec system it becomes the cleanest diesel in the world.

The E300 Bluetec is fast enough, clean and fuel efficient. Compare this to the Lexus GS450h, which is faster, clean but not very fuel efficient. I don't see how the GS450h is the "better car" when it needs more fuel, especially in mixed driving mode and on the highway.

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 11:37:33 AM | | Votes: 4   

So what does this mean? The GS450h is the better car since it is faster? 28 mpg is 8.4 L / 100 km and this is what? Combined? Because in various independent European tests, the GS450h has been measured to return an average of 12.4 L / 100 km in mixed driving which is 18.9 mpg. Hardly "good fuel economy".

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 2:09:33 PM | | Votes: 4   

And the Euro-spec GS450h does 0-60 in 6 seconds.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 2/26/2008 5:33:45 PM | | Votes: 8