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Tags: Audi, S4, B8, twin-turbo, V6, 330, horsepower, BMW, 335i

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Confirmed: B8 Audi S4 to feature 3.0 liter TFSI twin-turbo V6 330 horsepower
So the boys over at Audiworld have confirmed that Audi will indeed return to its B6 roots and twin-turbo the upcoming B8 S4.

Here is an excerpt from the article:

We have confirmed with inside sources that the B8 S4 will debut with a brand new 3.0-liter TFSI bi-turbo producing 330-hp. With this powerplant Audi can nearly match the B7's 340-hp output while providing even better performance figures. Manufacturer published (conservative) 0-60mph drops from 5.4 seconds to very low 5's, while the accompanying combined fuel economy rises from 17 mpg to over 20 mpg.

With a manufacturer estimated 0-60 time in the low 5 second range instead of the current 5.4 seconds, the B8 S4 should be squarely within range of the BMW 335i which features its own twin-turbo powerplant producing 300 horsepower and 300 lb./ft of torque.

It will be interesting to see what Audi does with the B8 RS4 given that the B8 S4 will feature 340 horsepower. The current 420 horsepower B8 will not provide nearly enough performance advantages over the S4, so it is probably safe to say, Audi will be increasing the horsepower output tremendously of the B8 RS4. Read Article



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NeverfollowNeverfollow - 11/20/2007 1:29:25 PM
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Just to be clear. The engine has NOT been confirmed officialy by anyone at Audi AG. I think everyone will agree that it will be a forced induction engine of some sort, but it remains unclear as to whether it will be supercharged or turbocharged. I know many who will be pulling for a twin turbo powerplant due to the ease of which aftermarket companies can extract significant additional amounts of power for a reasonalble price. That was exactly one of the reasons Audi decided to go to a normally aspirated V8 engine in the B7/B8 platform. The warranty claims and bad will were staggering with the 2.7T engine mainly due to modifications made after the sale. A twin charger engine would appear to make more sense when considering that arguement.

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Agent009Agent009 - 11/20/2007 1:48:17 PMView My AgentSpace
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From the enthusiast standpoint the twin turbo is far more desirable. The old 2.7t would go from 250hp to a solid 400+hp with minimal effort. If you got hardcore 500+hp was a reality.

A V8 is nice but IMHO the weight and poor mileage are a big detriment to many.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:36:01 PMView My AgentSpace
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I agree, 009. I love my V8 but I want to see something more tossable in their lineup.

This engine will also (hopefully) see use in a slightly de-tuned state throughout their bread/butter lineup. The S4 should have around 350hp in order to distance itself from a 300hp tune of this engine (A4 3.0T, to replace the A4 3.2).


Agent009Agent009 - 11/21/2007 9:00:59 AMView My AgentSpace
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Oh yeah something can be said for the intoxication of a big V8 no doubt.

But toss ability is something lacking in most super cars. It seems only Lotus embraces that philosophy across the board now a days.


scorpioscorpio - 11/22/2007 2:02:53 PM
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exactly right oo9, which is why the elise is one of the very few 'real sportscars' you can buy. It's fun.


NeverfollowNeverfollow - 12/3/2007 11:10:40 AM
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You guys know that the V8 used in the current S4 is lighter weight than the old iron block 2.7T with all it's associated plumbing right? Furthermore, the power produced by a normally aspirated engine gives a much more predictable result when driving on highly techical roads. Sometimes a turbo engine will produce too much power after a gear change causing the driver to back off a bit to correct, sometimes it will bog, causing a delay while the engine rebuilds boost. A turbo engine is really only great when accelerating in a strait line at WOT. A normally aspirated engine is usually best for a highly technical driving circuits where rpm can vary widely.


GermanNutGermanNut - 11/20/2007 2:12:28 PM
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Yes, this engine has been CONFIRMED by Audi AG.

Audiworld is the leading online community for Audi enthusiasts.

Audi will feature a 3.0 liter TFSI twin-turbo V6 with 330 horsepower in the S4.

This is a confirmed fact, and it looks like Audi is going to be using Turbos in the upcoming RS5 as well.

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irie77irie77 - 11/20/2007 6:02:06 PM
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It is true that this confirmation comes from AUDI AG. However, it appears that it's not as concrete as I'd like to believe. Quote from Fourtitude...

"Do we agree with Audiworld? We're not prepared to go out on a limb and say either, especially when talking about a corporate entity that is even known for its TSI twin charger engines. Still, more than one source at Audi say supercharger and, since we ran our own S4 news article two weeks ago, we've been emailed by a reader with an OEM source (we won't name) who claims to have been developing the application and also confirms it's a supercharger.

One thing that might be causing confusion is the designation of T. We hear T will be used for any forced induction setup, even if it's not a turbo..."


Response from Jason Teller
Managing Editor, AudiWorld.com

"George we are getting different information - maybe they are playing us both to increase speculation and interest? Per your suggestion on the AW forums, let's bet a beer on it!"...

We'll just have to wait and see. The bi-turbo is certainly welcome for many obvious reasons. The twin-charger is even...

...Interesting times ahead.


dlingkkdlingkk - 11/21/2007 2:19:12 AM
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TT is the trend. I bet next player will be NISSAN.

I'd like to see next Z using 3.0 V6 and TT version of it, similar to MAZDA's strategy. This will create an entry level Z($25K) and distinguish it better from the NA G37.

Although the 7500rpm VQ35HR's got great potential already.


AudiphileAudiphile - 11/20/2007 2:22:37 PM
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I hope the technical details and American debut date of the B8 S4 in this article are correct. If they are, then I have found my next new car. Yeeha!!

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AUTO_UNIONAUTO_UNION - 11/20/2007 2:58:35 PM
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That would be very nice!

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ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 11/20/2007 3:05:04 PM
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Nothing has been confirmed. Its just been confirmed by a person, not by Audi AG.

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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 11/20/2007 3:22:33 PM
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Should this be true, Mercedes is really (even more) in trouble for power, something which is usually not the case. The C-class needs to come with that M273 4.6 liter engine more and more every day.

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LexSucksLexSucks - 11/20/2007 4:01:04 PM
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This is just what Audi needs to compete with the 335. Because the current 3.2l Audi V6 is getting its butt handed to it by BMW.

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GermanNutGermanNut - 11/20/2007 5:08:34 PM
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With acceleration to 60 mph these cars should be dead even.

The Audi will have more horsepowr to make up for its added weight and Quattro AWD when compared to the lighter RWD BMW.

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investor27investor27 - 11/20/2007 6:28:39 PM
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Let's talk about the potential torque rating.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 7:53:35 PMView My AgentSpace
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350lb. ft?


LemantechLemantech - 11/22/2007 5:14:33 PM
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no it it will probably have around 310 to 320 lb-ft...and have a very flat torque band.


autoproautopro - 11/20/2007 6:41:02 PMView My AgentSpace
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I don't want a twin turbo,just a v-6 with 300 hp normally aspirated.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 7:54:58 PMView My AgentSpace
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What's the beef with turbos? Lately, high-quality turbocharged engines have little to no turbo lag (335i). They also get superior gas mileage to larger displacement engines that make the same power, and obviously make more efficient use of the engine. They also keep weight down and provide better handling and balance.

Naturally aspirated engines are overrated.


ATrainATrain - 11/20/2007 10:08:20 PM
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S4, when was the last time you drove a turbo? I tend to agree w/ Autopro. The lag is a problem unless your driving at 7/10th or above. I have a 535 so I have a feel for it... And when I compare to my 997 (engine-wise), it just doesn't feel as good - like it's not breathing right. Again, at the limit, it's fine because it feels more responsive and willing but below 2000, the turbo is annoying at best and it's hard to shake that impression.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 10:15:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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Interesting. I drove the 535xi and didn't notice it... but that was only a ten minute drive, as I wasn't actually looking at it, but my wife was.

There have also been plenty of reviews noting how the 335i has almost no turbo lag at all.

But anyway, I still think any small lag is worth the overall benefit that turbocharging does for the engine.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 10:15:50 PMView My AgentSpace
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BTW, I owned an A6 2.7T quattro, and I also have an A3 2.0T right now as a winter car. Neither has especially intrusive turbo lag, but the A3's is significantly better.


mitchelmmitchelm - 11/20/2007 10:33:25 PM
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Really? Than you can buy my G35 sedan with 298hp. Although it is quicker 0-60 than my A4, my A4 sure felt quick, especially on the highway.

Than and my g35 needs a new engine due to oil consumption problems. Although my a4 had coilpack problems, its nowhere near the headache i'm having with infiniti.

I'll be back in an audi if they dont replace my engine soon.


TheSailorTheSailor - 11/21/2007 8:11:08 AMView My AgentSpace
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I you guys living in the 80's?!? Turbo-lag is non existant nowadays... The last car I drove with any noticeable turbolag was the last generation RS6! The new RS6 doesn't even know what turbo lag is! The 335i pulls with the low end torque of a 7 liter V8...

Turbo technology have come SOOOOOOO far in the last ten years... The only people who experience turbo lag today, is people who think they can do better than the OE manufacturer... here is a hint: YOU CAN'T!
The 1.8T didn't have turbo lag and the 2.0 TFSI definately doesn't have turbo lag. I know this for a fact as I own a car with one of the hardest tuned 2.0TFSI engines on the marked, the Seat Leon Cupra with 240 hp... Only the S3's engine has more power... And even that doesn't have anything which faintly resembles turbo lag!
You might experience something you think is turbo lag when the engine is cold, but you might very well experience that on every other modern car with drive-by-wire accelerators as well. What you experience is the ECU compensating for your ignorance, when you floor the accelerator with a cold engine, by reducing the amount of fuel injected until the engine warms up... Which means that you can enjoy your car for longer...


TheSailorTheSailor - 11/21/2007 8:16:47 AMView My AgentSpace
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ATrain, you shouldn't by any chance be one of those people stupid enough to tune your car with a chip? If not, you should go down to your local dealership and ask them to take a look at it, because the low end torque is one of the things BMW-engineers are most proud of about that engine, so it could sound like something is messed up in the ECU or somebody didn't break the car in properly!


LexSucksLexSucks - 11/21/2007 10:56:19 AM
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It's only the Americans that are reluctant the buy turbos. Americans never forget if there were problems in the past. Even though the problems have long since been resolved. I'll bet the farm that the person who would rather have a normally aspirated V6 over a turbo is indeed in america.


ATrainATrain - 11/21/2007 8:46:32 PM
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Sailor,

It's definitely not a cold/warm engine issue. I have that on my A4.

However it's going in on Monday to put winter tires on and check the windshield. I'll ask them to look at the ECU. The only thing is that the 335 I tested six months ago also had lag. (BTW, I have been driving for 26 years and I take my cars to the track on weekend so I think I know a thing or two about cars...)

The problem as I see it is twofolwd. First, low compression before the turbos kick in results in sluggish response. Second, the two-stage nature of the acceleration curve. Your brain is looking for the kick but it doesn't happen at the same time so it's disappointing even if it's short-lived.

The only thing I'll give you is that cars are better than they used to be.

What do you drive and comp regularly that makes you say there is no lag nowadays?



TheSailorTheSailor - 11/23/2007 2:20:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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ATrain,

I've never driven an american version of a x35, But I talked to my brother who have worked in BMW's engine department and he told me that what you call turbo lag, is actually a feature, not a fault.
The american version of the engine has a softer speeder response in the low end of the rev band, meaning you don't get the same kick when you push the accelerator, but you won't spill your coffee on your way to work either (as most owners will never use that kind of car for track use)... But if you want to cure it and get a more interesting response, talk to your dealership and ask them if they can change your lazy american ECU with a more "peppy" european one. I've driven both the 335 and the 535 and I've never experienced anything that resembles turbo lag... You want to experience turbo lag? try an EVO! I drove one on a rallye course in Sweden a few years ago and that car was laggy as hell! Below 3000 RPM, absolutely nothing happened, but get above that and it is like being shot out of a rocket! Or the last generation RS6 or the 2.7TT RS4... I've driven both on the Nordsleife and it wasn't that pleasant! That turbo lag was bad! And the RS6's tiptronic didn't make it any better!
My daily driver is a Seat Leon Cupra (a car you don't get in the US) with a 2.0TFSI engine pumping out 240 bhp. And even though that is 120 bhp/liter, it doesn't have any turbo lag at all...

BTW: As far as I remember, the N54B30 (x35 engine) has eaxctly the same compression ratio as the N52B30 (x30 engine)


jtellerjteller - 11/21/2007 12:17:47 AM
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I think it's funny when all the experts come out and speculate on what HAS or HAS NOT been confirmed and by whom.

Clearly with my name on the byline I will stand by the article. The good natured back and forth with Fourtitude is there because George and I are friends and we are keeping it light. But I know exactly what I uncovered and exactly where it come from (multiple sources).

To be clear: Audi has confirmed nothing directly, and I wouldn't expect them too. That said, let the debate rage.

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LexSucksLexSucks - 11/21/2007 10:49:28 AM
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Jteller? The same J. Teller From Audiworld?


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/22/2007 12:59:43 AMView My AgentSpace
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He did SAY THAT in his post.


germeezy2germeezy2 - 11/21/2007 2:17:51 AM
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People forget how prone to random major failure the 2.7T cars were.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/22/2007 1:00:39 AMView My AgentSpace
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Really? Mine wasn't.

My brother has a B5 S4, Stage II chip with 330hp. His has not had a "failure," either, or anything remotely resembling one.


TheSailorTheSailor - 11/21/2007 7:58:43 AMView My AgentSpace
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So... This is the engine we've all been wanting Audi to produce, but if 330 hp is true, does that mean that Audi is ditching the S4 as an "inbetween" car that slots in between the competitors' high end normal models and the performance models and is aiming the new S4 straight up the 335i's tail pipe?! It makes sence to me... That would also give Audi a stronger selling point for B8 RS4 as the clear performance leader in the line up...
However, I think this would be the first time that one of the luxury manufacturers would decrease the rated output of such a specific model... And that leads to yet another question: Is this the beginning to the end of the power wars which have been raging for the last decade or so? Hmmm....

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/24/2007 2:50:00 PM
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"Is this the beginning to the end of the power wars which have been raging for the last decade or so? Hmmm...."

Very good comment. I hope the power war stops here.

The M5 all started it.


NeverfollowNeverfollow - 12/3/2007 11:23:13 AM
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Again, speculation on the power output numbers. Look for a dramatic increase in low end torque. That number will make the most difference to drivers. It will improve acceleration numbers and gas mileage as the engine will be turning fewer revs in cruise mode.


autoproautopro - 11/21/2007 10:16:26 AMView My AgentSpace
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Its to complex and you will have problems after the warranty is up.

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/21/2007 3:41:06 PM
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I bet the tuners are loving this!

330 hp is plenty in a 4-door saloon.

The 335i has a rival!

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investor27investor27 - 11/21/2007 7:18:28 PM
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I love the turbos precisely because there are easily done modifications that can increase performance. It does get better gas mileage, and no turbo lag. I test drove the 335i, and both my wife and I did not notice any turbo lag. We are no experts, but Jeremy Clarkson is, and he didn't notice any either. I think the new turbos are much better now than the 80s or 90s versions (twin turbos that is).

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StickShiftCamryStickShiftCamry - 11/22/2007 1:05:32 PM
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Gonna miss the big V8 sound, i've driven new S4's, they sound nice.

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RustHurricaneRustHurricane - 11/23/2007 2:41:26 AM
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WOW, drop form 5.4s to low 5's.....

It sounded like it ACTUALLY mean something, amazing!

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amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 11/24/2007 10:38:49 AM
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another case of wonderful audi engineering (NOT). these guys truly should say in the business of producing vw cars.

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chewychewy - 11/24/2007 7:46:07 PMView My AgentSpace
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How is it not wonderful engineering? Beats what BMW has.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/26/2007 12:08:43 AMView My AgentSpace
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BMW would not have a twin-turbocharged six if it wasn't for Audi.


NeverfollowNeverfollow - 12/3/2007 11:26:55 AM
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Agreed, since the 335 motor is pretty much a carbon copy of the Audi 2.0T with 2 more cylinders and an additional turbo.



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