29 Votes

Did Obama's Clunker Program Do More Harm Than Good For The US Automakers?

Agent009 submitted on 9/2/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 4:49:18 PM

71 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.latimes.com

Hailed as a jump-start for the U.

S. economy, the federal government's "cash for clunkers" gave the biggest boost to foreign automakers.

Overall, auto sales in August were the highest in more than a year, according to industry figures released Tuesday. Carmakers sold more than 1.2 million cars and trucks, up 1% from the same month last year and the first year-over-year sales gain since August 2007.

Much of that was a result of the clunkers program, which ran July 24 to Aug. 24 and provided hefty government rebates to consumers who traded in gas guzzlers for more fuel-efficient new vehicles.

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Did Obama's Clunker Program Do More Harm Than Good For The US Automakers?

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
— Agent009 (View Profile)

User Comments

yes
— bfghemicuda (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 5:20:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

I disagree.

It's all about how the final sales numbers were categorized and added. Many of the most popular cars sales numbers were broken-down by individual trim levels and engine options when considered. If entire model line sales were used the list would look much different.

I think a lot of Fords made the "real" Top 10 sales list.
— dumpsty (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 9:40:38 AM | | Votes: 2

More harm than good. It should have done more to help the American automakers that really needed the help.
— IVANURI97 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 5:46:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Many "foreign cars" like the #1 selling Camry, made in Kentucky, are built in America.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 5:51:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

yea, really. Some of these people think that just because it has a foreign badge means that it is foreign. Many "foreign" cars are more "American" than American Brand cars!!!
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:23:24 PM | | Votes: 5

And many popular "American cars" like the Escalade, Fusion and PT Cruiser are built in Mexico, while many others like the LaCrosse and Impala are built in Canada. Yeah technically those countries are in America too, but probably not what 009 meant in his usual agenda.
— FanboyOfTheTruth (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:43:05 PM | | Votes: 5

"Many "foreign cars" like the #1 selling Camry, made in Kentucky, are built in America" - Yes they are built in america but Toyota is NOT a US Automaker.
— theman440 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:45:01 PM | | Votes: -5

Quiz: Is the Camaro a US car?

Answer: It was designed in Australia and it is manufactured in Canada.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:48:00 PM | | Votes: 7

maybe so but the profits of the camry head steaight to Japan and dose Mo good for the US.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 8:25:04 PM | | Votes: -3

Maybe so but the profits of the camry head steaight to Japan and dose (no) good for the US.

revised...
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 8:36:42 PM | | Votes: -3

Before there are even "profits" to speak of, all the US workers need to get paid. You know, something we call EMPLOYMENT for the US. And that does no good for the US?

Making cars in Mexico and Canada, on the other hand, means that employment are only generated outside the US and the profits head straight into the pockets of the selected few corporate management riches. Now THAT does good for the US, eh?
— FanboyOfTheTruth (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 9:30:28 PM | | Votes: 6

dude if you know anthing about business PROFITS is the return on your investment consisting of the amount of the money you "paid" your employeesand R/D and yes a car built on the moon and sold on Pluto by a US company brings money to America. You are just confused about where the car is built.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:16:44 PM | | Votes: -7

If Toyota invests in the US, employs US citizens and pays taxes in the US, they are doing good for the country. Its that simple you idiot!
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:18:44 AM | | Votes: 3

"If Toyota invests in the US, employs US citizens and pays taxes in the US, they are doing good for the country. Its that simple you idiot!"

You the consumer eat the cost of Toyota doing business when you buy the car, the same money they paid taxes on is divided up into each and every car they sell to get the amount of taxes they paid back. Also when you own a huge corporation such as Toyota you can sidestep and write off many tax loopholes coming your way.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 5:26:05 AM | | Votes: -1

uaw:

"You the consumer eat the cost of Toyota doing business when you buy the car..."

yup. the SAME as when we the consumers, ate the cost of fat wages and lifetime HEALTH CARE for all D3 employees, to the tune of $1500/car+.

since smart consumers could see they were getting less car, they switched from detroit to import brands. (the loyal but dumb consumers continued to subsidize pensions and health plans many did not themsselves have.)

proud of your union now?
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/4/2009 10:56:06 PM | | Votes: 0

009 again, talking smack on toyota and obama. I guess nothing changes around here we just get articles asking dumb questions instead of atricles with useful information.
— freshseth83 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 6:40:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Come on now, we all know by now that 009 is nothing more than Autospies' resident Flame-Bater, that's why I ignore most of the crap he/she/it post.
— FuRoPiNiOn001 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:56:30 PM | | Votes: 9

Well... the program still helped the domestics a lot, while being "fair" to the foreigners.
— WorldofLuxury (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:23:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

"yea, really. Some of these people think that just because it has a foreign badge means that it is foreign. Many "foreign" cars are more "American" than American Brand cars!!!"

Thierry - come on, listen to what you are saying...
— theman440 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:48:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Take the Camaro for example.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 7:51:33 PM | | Votes: 5

the gov't failed on this one, like most things they try to run...it was supposed to last until next monday (labor day), 3 billion dollars was spent and only a small portion is being sent back to the dealers.
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 8:17:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

A car made a foreign automaker takes US dollars oout of the country, and back into the foreign country no matter where the car is made. Same can be said by a domestic automaker evan if the car is made is mexico/designed in Austraila Holden is owned by a GM a US company so the dollars stay here in the US.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 8:31:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

So the UAW is preaching that is better for the USA to buy a car made in Mexico, designed in Australia, as long as the greedy executives in Detroit that effed up the entire GM keep getting their bonuses, private jets, golden parachutes.......

Sorry, I'd rather for instance buy the awkward Accord Crosstour that is designed in the USA, built in the USA employing thousands and thousands of workers, employing thousands and thousands of suppliers, money flowing into local governments.......
— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 9:57:15 PM | | Votes: 6

you forgot to mention lowering our high standard of living while shrinking the American economy at the same time.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:18:48 PM | | Votes: -4

1UAW, you have made it very clear in thread after thread. As long as the greedy executives that take up office space for GM and Ford in Detroit "get theirs" you don't care if all the people working for the suppliers, factories, engineers, designers and the hundreds of thousands of workers.....go on unemployment.

We get it, buy GM or Ford so those executives keep that fat checks and benefits.

— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 11:11:53 PM | | Votes: 3

welcome to 2009 1UAW. $$ spent on US automakers no long only benefit the US. Buy GM cars so they can use the profit (if they make any) and take it to Mexico to build a manufacturing plant. Thats real patriotic ;)
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:29:13 AM | | Votes: 5

If you understand business when a car is built or designed in the US by Toyota you are paying for the price of thier investment when you by the car/truck and toyota gets that spent money back so just by saying the car built here is creating revenue in the US is inaccurate. The money goes back to a bank in Japan.
— upwards (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 8:45:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Umm, you are probably not going to believe this but because of double taxing, profits of multinational corporations tend not to be repatriated and stay where they were made. In Toyota's case, that would be Toyota North America Holding Company - a US Corporation. Not that there were any profits this year. But 43,000 Toyota NA employees at 5 US plants got paid their salaries along with 1000s more at privately owned US Toyota dealerships.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 8:55:22 PM | | Votes: 6

Technically they were "paid" by the Americans that bought the cars from Toyota with money already exisiting in the US. Toyota is not giving away money.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 9:13:39 PM | | Votes: -4

Just like GM, Ford and Chrysler. There is no car "Nationality" anymore, that is the point.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 9:17:37 PM | | Votes: 4

1uaw:

"Toyota is not giving away money."

NO company gives away money. but toyota has created an AMERICAN business which CHANNELS revenue from ever more happy, satisfied customers to thousands of employees, suppliers, dealers, lot boys, ad agencies, etc. etc. and the revenue stream is sufficient that at the very end, there are profits (except this year) which get reinvested for new and improved products, and distribution to SHAREHOLDERS, of which many are americans too.

the revenue streams at GM and Chrysler obviously DRIED UP before getting to the point of profits to reinvest and distribute.

anyone with a BASIC understanding of economics can see this.

aside from better cars, toyota has also built a better BUSINESS than the D3, benefiting FAR MORE people than just the overpaid execs and union parasites.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/13/2009 4:14:45 AM | | Votes: 1

"Umm, you are probably not going to believe this but because of double taxing, profits of multinational corporations tend not to be repatriated and stay where they were made. In Toyota's case, that would be Toyota North America Holding Company - a US Corporation. Not that there were any profits this year. But 43,000 Toyota NA employees at 5 US plants got paid their salaries along with 1000s more at privately owned US Toyota dealerships."

WRONG!!!!!
— upwards (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 9:17:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

Is Chrysler still an American automaker?
— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:17:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

NO
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:19:38 PM | | Votes: -5

and have not ben for years
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:20:05 PM | | Votes: -5

Chrysler is 55% owned by UAW, 10% owned by US, 35% owned by Fiat.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:29:51 PM | | Votes: 6

did you wipe those numbers off with toilet papper when you got them out?
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:31:12 PM | | Votes: -6

Chrysler IS an American co. Once Ceribus took over. Chrysler is 60% UAW...10% Gov..20% Fiat. Its still a Private Corp.
— bfghemicuda (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 9:20:10 PM | | Votes: 1

one of our nations problems is that we think we are a wealthy nation and we are not as wealthy as we think we are. People own milliom dollar homes and feel wealthy but most homes not just mikkion dollar homes are not paid for in cash/liqiudaty. They are owned with a promise to pay it off in years to come so to say many people are doing great is not seeing our problem correctly. Same can be said about a car. whenever we buy anything foreign we send liquid assets over seas shrinking our economy and it is hard to get it back becuase most nations understand this ideal and America just dont get it. Look at our steady drop from a world power since the 50's. Thats when we made almost wverything for ourselves and ONE parent could go out and easily find ONE job to raise a family, well those days are gone becuase we became a nation of consumers instead of producing and things are not getting any better as you can see.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:30:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Well said, really.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 11:04:28 PM | | Votes: 3

LOL
— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 11:13:43 PM | | Votes: 3

Welcome to 2009 buddy! Its almost 2010. Its a different world than the 1950s GM & Ford.
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:34:19 AM | | Votes: 9

Yes and to survive our entire nation needs to change, look foward to what we are doing now, how we spend our money,whered doese it really go to, Yes U.S employment is around 93% but what percentage is Fastfood joobs that no one can support their family with? We need to get back to be number one in math science/technolgy.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 5:30:05 AM | | Votes: -1

009 - you're so lame, like the rest of you Repubicans. You're taking potshots at the wrong target at the wrong time. All "Clunkers" programs worked, be it the US, Germany, Japan, etc. They worked for their respective car industry. In the US case, the cars sold helped US employees from the mfr, the dealers, part suppliers, worked and earned a salary during the economic crisis, regardless of whether they worked for a Japanese company or a US company. The benefit from the salary earned by these employees far outweigh the benefit of the profit to the company. In addition to the financial benefit, there's also the benefit of getting rid of some old cars that are uneconomical or polluting the environment. So as a general statement, Obama's clunkers program provided a lot of benefit for the "US Car Industry". 009, you're getting more pathetic by the day. First ripping off people's articles and now fishing with a poor bait.
— nguyenvuminh (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 10:35:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

There are hundreds of car dealers across America that should have been paid already, but they're still waiting for Obama to cough up the cash.

I watched one car dealer owner say he sold over 1,000 cars using Obama's cash for clinkers and he has only received 10% of his money from Obama.

I'll tell you, Obama better watch his step or else he's going to be impeached!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 11:24:00 PM | | Votes: -3

Obama is an inexperienced knucklehead.

Look at his mentors, Reverend Wright and terrorist Bill Ayres.

Obama is an old pot & coke head.

Obama is punch drunk on "yes we can" destroy a nation.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2009 11:20:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Silly, silly me... I read your 1st and 3rd line again, replaced Obama for Bush (W.) and it still sounded true.

Heck, If I change it again to EL34, change your mentors to 009 & 001; same result!!

Good Job EL34!! You got a chuckle out of me.
— Airliner (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:04:28 AM | | Votes: 4

You're incorrect.

Obama is a misfit and you know it!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:10:56 AM | | Votes: 0

I agree with EL34, for once.
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 8:56:08 AM | | Votes: 0

lexusrox123, so what does that say about you and your feelings in the matter? If I am typically wrong 99% of the time, how high is my creditability on this subject?
— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:29:29 PM | | Votes: 2

1UAW,
I bet you union boys just love those made in China, Korea and Mexico US cars right? How many union people were employed in the manufacturing of said "ALL AMERICAN CARS"?

Read this, its a bit dated but still applies. Toyota makes $2000 profit on each car avg, and the average selling price is $24,000 ($2400 higher than GM's). That means $22000 is spent on materials and labour. Materials have to be imported so that leaves approx $11,000 in labour.
GM loses money on each car sold.
So Toyota leaves $11,000 here while "taking home" $2000. GM spends the same on foreign materials, leaves a little bit more in labour due to the unions but that's offset by the loss the incur on each car sold.
So America breaks even whether its a Toyota or domestic car that's built here.

NOW. What happens if that domestic car is not built domestically? Labour cost is left overseas and they still incur a loss.

Obama screwed up, he would've been better off mailing everyboyd out a few hundred bucks to spend. It would've spread out the spending to all industries, not messed up car demand for the remainder of the year and wouldn't risk driving the economy off a cliff when sales plunge next month.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:04:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Huu,
In simpler terms for idiots (1UAW) who cannot quite keep up: It doesn't matter if Japan gets some of the money, US is also profiting via taxes Toyota pays (to say the least).

In today's world, 99.9% of all business conducted in the US will profit more than one nation, more than one party. Its just a matter of if the US will benefit or not. Maybe the Cash for Clunkers benefited "Foreign" brands, but it also benefits American makes.

1UAW: Welcome to 2009 buddy.
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:27:23 AM | | Votes: 4

business 101 for all of you....... i will make this simple ok. you live a house with 3 of your realitives and accross the street is a house a man in a wheel chair that sales plants for 10$, he cant bring the plants to you so he hires your brother who lives their to sale you plants at the new price of 15$ dollars to offset the cost of hiring your broth/ and paying a tarrif at your front door. What has happend is he still reached his targeted profit margin ant took 10$ out of your household. While it seems that employing your brother and paying a tarrif brought money in it didnt it only moved money that was already there while taking money out of your house. same thing when buying a car toaster or anything foreign made.
— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 5:39:59 AM | | Votes: -6

huu, be sure to check in next month and educate all of us idiots when sales of car does plunge and let us all know how the world has gone off the cliff. See you in October 2009 professor know-it-all.
— nguyenvuminh (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 1:41:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

That violated USA international trade agreements.
— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 7:35:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

The bill should have said that the car or truck had to be made in American by American workers. I dont care if it a toyota, as long as it keeps a American worker working.
— mocashflo924 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 9:15:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Please excuse Shempy as it is obvious that it has hate issues...
— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:27:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

wow !
— theman440 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 12:11:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

we did nuke a country! the only country to EVER get nuked. And the funny part about it is that if it weren't for japan we wouldn't have any of the technology that we have right now. What's funny even more so than that is the fact that German and Japanese technology were far beyond that of the U.S. even back in WWII. Look at today, what TV's do we buy? Japanese and Korean. Samsung LG being Korean, Sony Panasonic Toshiba being japanese. So yeah lets nuke every asian country so they can nuke us back with just as many nukes as we have. Or did you forget that Russia is an 'asian' country? And as far as the clunkers is going, there is talk of a second Clunkers because the anticipated fall in sales. Don't discredit Obama and his administration for things the previous administration caused. Say he does nothing like people are implying and we'd be in a depression folks. Haters will continue to hate, just because they are ignorant and lack understanding, it will continue on. But other's that do realize what is really going on in the world and the things needed to rectify problems, won't be upset at the presidents decisions.
— freshseth83 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 2:58:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

in certain areas (not all), the japanese and germans DID have technologoy superior to ours as far back as WWII.

we won mainly because our superior material resources and manpower enabled us to OUTPRODUCE them, and win all the campaigns determined by which side withstood attrition rates better. many americans let victory go to their heads assuming they were better MEN, not recognizing we merely had MORE weapons and men. quantity vs. quality.

the philosophy has come to bite us in the rear, when others now make better QUALITY while we've been relying on just quantity.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/4/2009 11:05:39 PM | | Votes: 1

I HOPE IT DID MORE HARM TO US MAKES!!!! Just look at their Product. Wheres these fantastic small cars they promised?
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 7:12:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

nguyen,
Sure thing my Fobby friend. And it won't be just next month, but the following month(s) as sales were moved forward to take advantage of Obama's great wisdom in accelerating sales that would've happened anyway. Now not only will car sales go down, but other industries have been deprived of business because everybody is stuck with car payments.

I guess you don't get your head out of the sand much do you? US private industry cut 290,000 jobs last month, MORE than forecast by socalled geniuses. I can see the newly unemployed just rushing out to buy cars to makeup for the ones that won't happen next month since they happened last month.

1uaw,
Without the old guy, what plant are YOU selling in your house?

Shempy,
In that case, more Toyota's and Honda's would've probably qualified than "American" brands. Maybe they should nuke greedy ass American execs?

Freshseth83,
Obama is doing everything Dubya did. Last check people weren't too thrilled about Obama escalating Bush's war in Afghanistan.
Obama = Dubya's 3rd term except the media is afraid to criticize him as its both not fashionable and they'll be labelled racist.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2009 11:15:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Whatever huu, only racists will get labeled racists. So whoever is getting a label must have a problem, right?
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/4/2009 2:26:03 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

So I guess Professor Race-card in Boston was perfectly correct in calling a cop racist for doing his job?

Or does it only apply when its benefcial or convenient?
White Bush an idiot for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, Black Obama a saviour for not doing much in Iraq and escalating Afghanistan and trippling the deficit.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/4/2009 10:30:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

How about this one.
Obama being voted in because of his skin colour is perfectly okay, its called progress and being Liberal.
Obama not being voted in because of his skin colour is called racism or discriminatory.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/4/2009 10:33:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I stand corrected, my 290,000 job cuts was for July (keep forgetting colleges go back late this year and that its Sept now) which was revised to 276,000. Aug lost 216,000 jobs.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/4/2009 10:17:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

But I love Professor Race Card.
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/5/2009 1:20:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

That's your choice in lifestyle.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/5/2009 10:38:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Did Obama's Clunker Program Do More Harm Than Good For The US Automakers?

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