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Did Toyota Give Scion A Kiss Of Death From The Very Beginning?

Agent009 submitted on 08/04/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:17 PM
from: forums.motortrend.com

[33] user comments | category: Misc News

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Did Toyota Give Scion A Kiss Of Death From The Very Beginning?

Scion got off to a fast start five years ago, but now Toyota executives are forced to rethink their funky experiment — and do it a lot sooner than they expected.

At issue is Scion's mission — and whether the idea behind the trendy brand still makes sense.

A year after the second generation of Scion's youth-oriented vehicles debuted, Toyota faces several problems:

-- The number of young people shopping Scion has dropped dramatically since 2006.

-- Before $4-a-gallon gasoline gave all small cars a big boost in April and May, Scion was in a slump it couldn't seem to get out of. And in June, sales were declining again. Read Article

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LexSucks - 8/4/2008 3:35:39 PM

+5 Boost

They tried. But the cars weren't really that hip.

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Agent009 - 8/4/2008 3:44:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Yep the average buyer is 42 now.. not quite the hip 18 to 24 year old vehicle anymore.

gothemi8 - 8/4/2008 5:08:12 PM

+2 Boost

Heres the biggest issue with that 42 year old average age stat. How many of their target audience can afford or qualify for the purchase of a brand new car? Very very few especially at the young end of the range where I'm going to guess none at that end. Parents buy these cars to be used primarily by their teenage children but the parents are the ones counted for that stat. I'm sure if they used the primary driver for that stat I'll bet its somewhere around 20. I know there are 30 and 40 somethings that primarily use these cars but there are a lot of teen drivers. I have a tC and when I bought mine in late 2005 and had to put my name down on one fresh off the boat and wait for it to come in. I love my tC and yes there are a lot on dealer lots now they are definatly due for a redesign but they are a marvilous vehicle.

EnnNorak - 8/5/2008 12:48:25 AM

+1 Boost

Youth car -- my ass!!! I'l be 70 in November and I would love to have a Scion as a second car. I'm pissed at Toyota for not bringing the Scion to Canada.

Agent63 - 8/6/2008 8:20:00 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I'm not surprised. Anything Toyota has made hasn't been the most exciting even though I like some of their offerings.

daytonaviolet - 8/4/2008 3:46:11 PM

+3 Boost

They should try to move their image to being about fun cars that are fuel efficient, and keep age out of it.

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Agent009 - 8/4/2008 4:24:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

That role is filled in quite nicely by Mazda. They seem to "get it" where it some how escapes Scion's grasp.

Maverick2020 - 8/4/2008 4:17:06 PM

+2 Boost

Scion was created because the average age of Toyota buyers was approaching Buick's. Gen-Y was unlikely to visit a Toyota dealership, so something had to be done.

In the late 1990's TMS tried unsuccessfully to market 3 cars under their Genesis Marketing Project, and that fell flat.

Eventually it was decided to import JDM vehicles with slight alterations for the U.S. Market. These vehicles were meant to tap into the fast-and-furious youth market.

The problem with Scion is that there was no second act. It's initial products were a hit (even though they were quite mediocre). The business model was flawed and the idea for a streamlined purchase process was never fully realized.

Now TMS is scrambling to figure out Scion. The need to reach younger buyers is still an imperative.

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asiancars233 - 8/4/2008 4:19:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I think Scion is an OK brand. But I think what really messed them up is the "little devients" ads. That ad might only be appealing to little kids (probably mostly devious ones) and weirdos. I think they should make ads about young people hanging out with their Scions and are having a good time blasting some tunes. Cause they apply their brand to young buyers. Yet they don't really show young people in their ads. They need something young people can relate to and I think they need to change their cars a bit. Cause theres ONLY 3 CHOICES. the XB saved scion. I see a lot of XB's on the road(I'm seeing more XD's on the road though) I think they need 2 change the XD a bit and the they need a redesign on the TC. The TC I think has a lot of potential. They just need to tweak it so it seems more racing like, but yet fuel efficient. I also think they need a sedan and this sedan can't be a knock off of the corolla or the camry.They need other types of cars. I don't think they should make an SUV but if they did they can't make it a normal, huge gas guzzler or it wont sell.
I see a lot of young people drive em. But also a lot of older people thinking their hip. It's the same with the Honda Element.

I like to test drive a lot of cars. So I wanted to test drive the Scion. So I asked a Toyota employee to test drive an XB and he gave me a weird look and tried to promote the Toyotas. Toyots NEEDS to change this. Because if even the dealers are looking at scion as the lower, bad, and unneeded brand, people will consider not buying one because of un-appeal. Also a lot of people want to look good to other people and I know theres tons of Scion haters they won't want to drive in a car they don't like. So that's Scions problem. I hope some Scion execs are reading this.

I also hate when people hate the Scions. Their a pretty good brand. I know their not german engineering, a luxury brand, or fast cars, but for a first car, or if u don't have a lot of money, or if your a tuner that wants to show off a huge custom sound system, or are a basic person that just wants a point a to point b car. Scions are a pretty good choice

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Agent009 - 8/4/2008 4:27:08 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

It is a good brand no doubt. But it isn't close to the mark it was targeted for. Competes more with Kia than anything else.

Agent00J - 8/4/2008 6:45:17 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

I think you hit the nail on the head in saying that Scion should change the image of the advertising and not show the deviants. While this may appeal to a small segment of the market, the larger portion of the market is appalled by the deviants shown in the commercials.

The products are great, but when I went to look at them (I myself test drive a lot of cars) the sales person really had NO CLUE as to the differences between the various models. Of course when I was handed his business card, his name was handwritten in on top of the wite-out used to cover the previous persons name.

I remember reading early on that Scion dealers were supposed to be separate from Toyota dealers in some visible means. In my mind that equates to something similar to what BMW did with Mini, they may share the same lot but there are separate buildings and as such identities. Walking into a Toyota dealership to buy a Scion is like walking into a Toyota dealership to buy a Toyota - BORING!

The Mini dealers while on BMW property in most cases evoke a style and image defined by the Mini brand. What style and image is portrayed when a Scion TC (which I still think is a great little car) shares floor space with Camry's and Sienna minivans. Not very hip in my opinion.

If Scion is to succeed and create a true brand apart from Toyota, it needs to separate from Toyota, even if simply across a dealer lot. Toyota sales people sell Toyota, Scion sales people sell Scion. NO CROSSOVER for it dilutes both brands, but especially Scion.

-00J

atomicbri - 8/5/2008 7:44:52 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

00J I agree, they need to have separate sales people for the product. I recently went to a dealer to drive the xD to see what it was like and the salesman was an older gentleman... who was well versed on Toyotas but he was clueless to the Scions. He stuttered the entire time about them and didn't even know engine details, much less options. When I asked about the TRS wheels for it, he was like "Yeah you can get wheels I think, this one has wheels." as he points to the regular 16" rims that were optioned on this particular xD. I asled about lights inside in the foot wells, he said "Huh??" He had no idea Scions could have those types of features. So I took him over to a Corolla for sh*%s and giggles and he told me everything about the car.

This is not the first time this has happened to me with Scion. I went to another dealership to try out the xB and this time it was a young guy that was a salesman. He was like, "You wanna take it home today?" I said I have never even driven it why would I? And he came out and said let me get the keys. When he opened it I quizzed him on things and he said, "Well I really don't know too much about them, thats (other sales guy) he knows about em but he is not here today." He had no clue about the car. When I made comparisions to the old xB he just kept saying "yeah this is cool huh?" He then said, "wow I like this dash, I never really looked at it." What???? These guys are out there selling cars by hoping you will "take it home today" When 2 different dealerships have had clueless salesmen, obviously Toyota has not done its job to make sure its small cars are appropriately marketed at a dealer level. And I also agree that Toyota needs to take into account the parents that buy the cars for the kids. I have seen out on the island how a lot of younger people are driving one, courtesy of their parents. Not sure if Toyota takes that into consideration or not.

222max - 8/4/2008 4:44:53 PM

+2 Boost

Toyota should have created more youthful cars under the Toyota brand. That's where they need it the most. Everything Toyota is either a practical sedan or an SUV. No coupes, no sporty cars.

Other brands such as Mazda and Nissan have a much younger demo by virtue of product their appeal, not marketing.

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Audiphile - 8/4/2008 4:49:01 PM

+3 Boost

Toyota already have a low-priced small model appealing to younger buyers - the Yaris. I would think that the Yaris and the Scion would be canniballizing each other's sales.

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222max - 8/4/2008 5:25:18 PM

+1 Boost

It wouldn't if there was no Scion in the first place, though. They should have made these cars Toyotas and that would have helped Toyota's stodgy image.

EL34 - 8/4/2008 5:17:23 PM

0 Boost

Did Toyota Give Scion A Kiss Of Death From The Very Beginning?

Who cares, they're just cheap ugly cars.

:-\

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cdoke - 8/4/2008 7:13:13 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

I have said it before, and I will say it again as well as probably be de-boosted again; I think Scion is (was) a fad.

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bmwdrvr - 8/5/2008 1:12:51 AM

+2 Boost

oddly enough it was marketed to people that are into fads, and originally Toyota plan to have faster updates than most brands for this reason......but everyone knows with any Fad it changes some overtime...but than at some point it just gets old and loses its interested when it is no longer the fresh, new, cool thing anymore........their marketing had alot to do with their downturn i think, because these cars make alot of sense, cheap, pratical, good on gas otherwise

truckmen - 8/5/2008 1:18:50 AM

-1 Boost

If you can't sell to young people Toyota really messed up! Young people are the dumbest people around when it comes to being influenced to buying something! Ok, young people can teach us a few things and do well is school, better than you and I probably but there hormones think for them and that includes buying anything. Also the quality issues didn't help anything either.

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Autoknologist - 8/5/2008 2:34:09 AM

+1 Boost

Wow. Where to begin. First and formost; As with the many, many, many great ideas, products, and business's that have come and gone over the years in America; this one too has been destroyed by good old american capitalyst idea of bigger is better. Along with a good dose of nothing destroys success like success itself. (just look at Britney Spears) It is a uniquely american process for the most part. And Toyota Motor America is no different. What was it that made the first generation of SCIONS so successful(mostly the XB and the TC) They were different, affordable and had inovative style and character. The XB was like nothing else on our shores in it's character. Sure, there were other utilitarian box type vehicles. None that looked like the XB. It was 'fashionable' Well fashion is a ficle business. But, as in fashion, you can't give them what they want (all the surveys said that the customers wanted the XB to be bigger) you have to tell them what they want. Toyota lost site of what the mission was and decided to fall back on it's own laurels of the past and it 'listened' to the customer. Great for Toyota cars, not so great for what a SCION was suppose to be. Thus, we have the plain jane, much bigger, much less fuel efficient and totally un-cool new XB. This works great for us older folks for as we age we want people to listen to us and give us what we ask for. When we were young, we wanted to be dazzled with glitter and newness, to 'stand out' to be told what is cool and see what we do with it. This requires extreme vigilance and a commitment from within to continue to stand out, take risks. IE: think young. Very risky and expensive for fashion designers, let alone for a car company. Ironically, I beleive that if they had brought the actual successor for the XB(Known as a Dihastsu) that is overseas to the US again, as was done with the original, there sales would not be in the dumper as much as they are now. Additionally there simply should not have been a successor to the XA, (IE: the but ugly XD) at all. IT did not sell well as the XA (to small and wierd) and it sells even worse as the XD-erelict). So wether Toyota can goe outside the box again and reivigorate the line with something fashionable and stylistically inovative is the challenge at hand. If not, the SCION brand should be gently washed away and merge the remaining vehicles into the Toyota line. I believe that if they again look to there own home country shores for inspiration, maybe that can be accomplished. However, don't look for the SCION brand name to be on the scene for too much longer.

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Kaniver - 8/5/2008 9:05:16 AM

+1 Boost

+1

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g2ok - 8/5/2008 9:02:45 AM

+1 Boost

It was a bad idea from the start. Toyota needs to focus on it's core mission of reliable, safe, fuel efficient cars that range from small to big sedans and the light trucks at competitive prices.

All they need to do is allow people to customize their cars easier with TRD type of parts and better stereos. That needs to be considered from design stage and would help keep their line looking so monotonous.

I think they should cancel Scion because the cars are expensive. For young people, they just don't have that much buying power after paying rent and college, etc.

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Kaniver - 8/5/2008 9:03:26 AM

+2 Boost

It doesn't matter how much you can customize these cars, they will still be fugly, its like polishing a turd...

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g2ok - 8/5/2008 9:04:34 AM

+1 Boost

Bring back the Celica.

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Kaniver - 8/5/2008 9:12:13 AM

+4 Boost

yes bring back the celica and supra, if you want to appeal to the younger crowd these are the cars to catch their eye, and boy the tuners would be happy...

bmwdrvr - 8/5/2008 11:55:04 AM

+1 Boost

people say that but toyota keeps making a Celica, and obviously the market doesnt want one, so than they stop selling it again its never really sold that well, yet oddly enough you always hear people say bring back the Celica and it will help.....if the Supra were to be reincarted to appeal to young people to buy it would have to be refocused as a much cheaper car, and more downmarket....like Nissan did with the Z because the last one was out of reach to most young people with its over 40,000 asking price

huu76 - 8/6/2008 12:15:59 AM

+3 Boost

Competing against Toyota's compacts is hard to do.
Why buy a Scion when you can lease a BMW for less?
Only the tC was attractive.
The first two are nearly imopssible to overcome.

I have noticed that almost all of the xB's I've seen (we don't have many in Canada) have been tricked out. Maybe they should integrate these cars into Toyota dealerships and raise the prices to target that specific segment (if you can afford $3000 for wheels and tires, you can afford an extra grand for a car). xA is basically a Yaris and the xB is an ugly Yaris 5-door.

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huu76 - 8/6/2008 12:17:34 AM

+1 Boost

If they want to be trendy and young, bring back the Celica and other performance 4bangers. Priced at $25,000 CDN, they'd move quite a few.

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JudasLease - 8/7/2008 8:00:17 AM

+1 Boost

I never understood this brand, seemed like a short sighted move.

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saintdiablosaint - 8/7/2008 10:31:00 PM

+1 Boost

sell scion to someone who understands the demographic and can take care of scion without being sat on by toyota

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