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Do You Buy A Brand Based Off Study Numbers, Reputation, Or Something Else?

Perhaps you’ve seen recent claims from Ford touting the initial quality of its new vehicles.

Those claims are based on a survey, commissioned by Ford through a specialist company, which concludes that "Ford Motor Co. is in a dead heat with Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. in terms of initial vehicle quality...."

The fine print at the bottom of the advertisement flashes by in seconds, but the key word here is "initial," as in the first three months of ownership.

These results are not surprising. Almost all auto manufacturers have raised the levels of their initial-quality game. For many years, various surveys have shown that differences among most brands in the first 90 days have been shrinking into statistical insignificance. Very few cars have major problems on delivery these days. This is great news for car makers and car buyers.

Ford’s survey sounds like, but is not the same as, the well-known J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study (IQS).

The Power IQS shows a similar trend. Initial quality is quite good across most of the auto industry, and differences are increasingly minor. In fact, last year’s IQS – the most recent available - showed that the spread from the best to the worst brand is less than 0.8 problem per vehicle.
 

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Do You Buy A Brand Based Off Study Numbers, Reputation, Or Something Else?



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mercuryguymercuryguy - 5/12/2008 4:48:43 PM
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There is a reason The Lincoln Town Car is dirt cheap to insure, they are rated near the Top for road-safety. The triple 5-Star Government Crash rating tells it all. Side-impact, Roll-Over, Front-end impact. This model held this rating for a decade now.

In New York State, where Insurance is very expensive, You save a Ton of money on insuring cars like these.

I can live with 23MPG with the cheap insurance off-setting the cost.


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0to600to60 - 5/12/2008 9:41:42 PM
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I looked it up and saw a lincoln town car only avg MPG (city) 16
MPG (highway) 23
MPG (combined) 18

What are you talking about. Honestly, how old are you?
The lincoln towncar was due for a redesign like 10 yrs ago! The car depreciates like crazy when you drive it off the lot. You have to be at least 70 to even thinking about purchasing one. And although I havent driven one, it just looks like it drives like a bus!



0to600to60 - 5/12/2008 9:47:28 PM
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http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/noframes/18746.shtml

to cite my sources



85bmw745i85bmw745i - 5/14/2008 8:11:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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I have driven one, and it does drive like a bus and I can hardly believe it did so high in rollover tests as it has about as much body roll as a bus. overall not a bad car though, just don't expect import quality as in materials and driving refinement. It's more like a sofa on wheels.


chuck2oonzchuck2oonz - 5/12/2008 5:02:09 PM
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I think it's definitely how your car performs over the long run that contributes to your loyalty. My opinion is that out of people who are shopping for new cars, a large percentage of them already have pretty strong brand loyalties based on what they had..

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KZ258KZ258 - 5/12/2008 5:12:55 PM
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i buy each car in the following order:

1. performance numbers

2. luxury

3. rep (just because reputation is last doesnt mean it doesnt matter)


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SVXXXSVXXX - 5/12/2008 6:44:16 PM
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I'm with you! Those are my priorities as well!



DexDiamondsDexDiamonds - 5/13/2008 11:50:03 AM
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I have to agree. Great priorities.


ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 5/14/2008 7:26:40 PM
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i SOMEWHAT agree, but my definitions vary slightly:

1. performance-- on BANG for the buck basis. i.e., LONG TERM COST of ownership. performance of drivetrain is OK if it at least holds its own vs. competitors in class.

2. luxury-- the luxury of PEACE OF MIND. KNOWING it will start every time, in any weather (i live in alaska and have seen negative 50 temps), any where; and WHERE EVER you can drive to, you'll also always be able to drive home too. (assuming you're not so dumb as to crash or get stuck.)

3. reputation-- ONLY if backed up by PERSONAL experience. augmented by those of your circle of friends/family.


on the basis of all of the above, i will ALWAYS have at least one toyota in my stable. to ALWAYS have a backup (if not daily driver), and the freedom to indulge in less reliable but maybe more fun to drive toys.




ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 5/14/2008 7:36:09 PM
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current toy is a Honda Magna V4 bike. it out cruises any Hog, with ~1/2 the displacement but TWICE the no. of cylinders, sweetness of sounds, and FUN riding.

i had assumed it would nearly match the reliability of honda cars, but had to fork out $2100 last summer to replace a loose cam chain. that is more than 15-20 YEARS' worth of toyota repairs (not counting normal maintenance).

but the fun and coolness factor of the bike makes it still worth it!

prior bike was a Kawasaki Ninja. also not so reliable. always having a toyota, makes it possible to INDULGE in these fun but not so reliable vehicles.



Htay7500Htay7500 - 5/12/2008 5:16:28 PM
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I like whatever suits me best. I like subarus because of their unique offerings.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/12/2008 5:33:59 PMView My AgentSpace
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I buy what makes me feel good. I don't worry very much about reliability because I'm pretty lucky in terms of how my cars behave. If it's in my budget, performs how I want it to and meets all my needs, that's it.

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ChipChip - 5/12/2008 7:17:42 PM
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Ditto S4.

Its how the car feels to me, and for the past few years, I've been addicted to the much maligned "Magic Feel" of BMW's. I usually cross shop heavily, but like a drug, I always return to my dealer.



EL34EL34 - 5/12/2008 5:51:11 PM
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This just goes to show a Toyota owner is a wannabe BMW owner.

And why not, it's just a few more pennies :-\


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M35MTM35MT - 5/13/2008 8:29:52 AMView My AgentSpace
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I believe it was for a humurous effect yet I'm not sure you're clever enough to understand that.


klipprandklipprand - 5/12/2008 6:10:34 PM
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For two decades I have bought based on long term reliability/price. For me this has meant Honda. However, I have noticed that our American made Honda's have not been as reliable as our Japanese made Honda's. Also, I do know that a regular maintenance schedule goes a long way towards keeping a vehicle for my planned 10 years. So I have been eyeing performance and luxury a bit higher.

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mercuryguymercuryguy - 5/12/2008 6:34:53 PM
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I see Ward rated Ford's new Duratech V6 as 10 Best.

JD power has awarded Lincoln as well. Ford is gaining new ground. maybe their New 4.4L Diesel will be a big hit as well.


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lexusis350lexusis350 - 5/12/2008 6:56:23 PM
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I buy cars based on looks, performance, quality, and reputation. Those, in my opinion, are the most important things to look for in a car.

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tattedtwicetattedtwice - 5/12/2008 7:35:19 PM
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It's pretty simple. I buy what looks and drives best to me, not what some list tells me is supposed best. I crack open useless rags like consumer reports when I need a chuckle, not automobile advice.

I've never ever had a troublesome car, even though I've only bought brands that are supposedly so "unreliable" according to honyota fanbois and the 'all knowing' consumer reports.


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lexusrox123lexusrox123 - 5/13/2008 9:07:28 AM
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what a sad case of disillusionment


ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 5/14/2008 7:44:22 PM
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i bought a new ford in 2000, and in the 5 years i owned it, it was back at the dealer's more times than 3 toyotas i've owned over 15 years, COMBINED! (two of which i still own.)




bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 5/12/2008 8:07:57 PM
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i start with what fits my needs, and from there i go on styling, what feels the best fit for my driving style and taste, and quality, than from there i try and find the best deal....the 2 ultimate deciding factors for me though are what fits my needs, and what fits my driving style

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t_bonet_bone - 5/12/2008 8:18:44 PM
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I buy by model, not brand.

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M35MTM35MT - 5/13/2008 8:39:12 AMView My AgentSpace
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Exactly.

I may love a car from a center brand yet despise another one.



M35MTM35MT - 5/13/2008 8:39:33 AMView My AgentSpace
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*certain brand


Batman219Batman219 - 5/12/2008 8:21:17 PM
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A mix of passion, reputation, and reliability.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/12/2008 10:12:38 PMView My AgentSpace
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Passion and reliability aren't often found in the same sentence.


bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 5/12/2008 10:20:32 PM
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agreed they normally dont go with the same car... i think secretly i would be owning a Jaguar XKR if i get passed the bad reputation of Jaguars


Jagexpert2Jagexpert2 - 5/12/2008 11:01:03 PMView My AgentSpace
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BMRdriver, reputation is often based on misconception. Jaguar has better reliability numbers than ALL Euro lux brands and second only to Lexus for close to 9 years. But people have long memories.So rep isn't based on fact if you do your homework.

So go buy that Jag. Don't worry what your friends say. Teach them something.



Jagexpert2Jagexpert2 - 5/12/2008 11:01:49 PMView My AgentSpace
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By the way Lex/Toyota recalled over 250,000 cars last year


bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 5/13/2008 12:09:43 AM
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i would be interested in seeing where you got those stats from?


goochgooch - 5/13/2008 7:58:08 AM
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Check JDPower.com. Jagexpert is right.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/13/2008 6:09:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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Jagexpert is correct. The XJ is one of the most reliable luxury sedans on the market.


flozel1flozel1 - 5/13/2008 6:18:14 PM
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"Passion and reliability aren't often found in the same sentence"

So what you're saying is that people are more likely to be passionate with garbage.



stash84stash84 - 5/12/2008 9:19:03 PM
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the most important thing for me is the exterior shape..then performance..then interior..then reliability..i dont really look at the price..id rather have a 40k is350 than most other cars that cost a lot more

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2008 9:36:15 PM
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1. great product (in my book that means handling, power and looks)

2. reputation

3. studies/comparison tests/ratings...but only once i've decided the car meets #1 and #2


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Agent004Agent004 - 5/12/2008 10:25:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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1) How it drives.
2) Does it have paddleshifters.(My new favorite item).
3) Cost.


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Agent004Agent004 - 5/12/2008 10:25:41 PMView My AgentSpace
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4) Was it built some place other than the US.


Jagexpert2Jagexpert2 - 5/12/2008 11:02:48 PMView My AgentSpace
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Jaguar will be all paddle shift when the new XJ comes out. Right now the XF and the XK have them.


MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 5/13/2008 5:20:53 AM
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Do You Buy A Brand Based Off Study Numbers, Reputation, Or Something Else?

I buy the one I like the most. Thats not necessarily, the best value, fastest or most economical, but it is normally a BMW.


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goochgooch - 5/13/2008 8:02:27 AM
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How a car feels is vital. A high performance vehicle is a must (I am a total believer in active safety). The car must look a certain way -- no fruity colors. It must have certain accouterments: sunroof, upgraded stereo. And it must have a manual transmission.
Ordinarily, this leads me down the road to German dealerships, primarily those of the Bavarian Motor Works. I have made a couple of stops for VW GTIs and wasn't disappointed -- in fact, those cars fed and reinforced my love for German autos.
Lexuses, Infinitis and the new Caddys are nice, but they don't drive like the Germans.


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amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 5/13/2008 8:29:28 AM
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i buy bmw, because they are the best combination of quality, luxury, style, performance driving involvement and brand image.

unbeatable in my book.

if i were older, id go for a benz..

younger, id go for a porche

pooerer, id go for an audi

richer, id go for a maserati

obscenely richer, ferarri



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kpaxxkpaxx - 5/13/2008 8:55:55 AM
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TauronB2GTauronB2G - 5/13/2008 9:34:36 AM
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I buy based on the combination of design, power and price. All that other stuff is just bs used to distract you.
T


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holmstarholmstar - 5/13/2008 9:37:25 AM
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I don't buy a brand. I buy a specific car. I've never really been that attached to a particular brand. For me, handling is probably the most important quality.

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WhelanWhelan - 5/13/2008 10:24:23 AM
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I buy on:

1) Personaly Appeal

2) Cost of Ownership (reliability)

3) Resale

I am not die hard to stick with one brand or another. I really go for what I like. I figure out what my price range and affordability is, then find cars in that range that appeal to me. Once I select them, I check out their ratings and reviews all over, get an idea of cost of ownership, and move forward.

When I was looking for my last car I was looking at a Toyota Highlander, but they were about 5k out of my range. A Lexus IS300 was also about 3k out of my range. The Rav4 was too chick for me, and the Volvo S40 was right on the cusp, but cost of ownership really pushed me away cause they are expensive cars to maintain.

I saw a Matrix on the lot the night I looked at the Rav 4 and drove it. Rav was nice but again too girly for me. I peeked at the Matrix but didn't think of it till I realized it was offered in AWD and was not an SUV! I then checked out the competition, the Subaru 2.5 wagon, the Mazda 3. All had advantages and disadvantages. The 3 was a little too small and after 40 minutes of standing on the lot and in the showroom nobody approached me so I left pissed. I called them the next day to inform them and left it at that. The Subaru looked WAY to much like a wagon than a hatchback. And for me the Matrix fit, the looks were the best IMO, the reliability was second to none, the resale was fantastic, and the AWD was on demand instead of FT or not available (3).


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WhelanWhelan - 5/13/2008 1:16:45 PM
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I hope you were not referring to me, cause not everyone has 40+K to drop on a car. I was looking in the 20 range given my budget. But I didn't want some car that was a base model with nothing. I wanted my options, sunroof, leather wheel and shifter, AWD, 6 speaker 6 disc in dash CD, etc.

Just because I may not be in the realm of luxury cars does not mean I can't have my opinion. People have different needs and my need no longer necessitated me owning a 2 door Civic EX Coupe.


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DexDiamondsDexDiamonds - 5/13/2008 11:49:14 AM
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I'm a brand loyalist and until that brand gives me reason to want to move on... I ride it until the wheels fall off (at least my dail driver that is). As for new models and desires I definitely lease to try it out.

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mercuryguymercuryguy - 5/13/2008 4:53:20 PM
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Ford and Lincoln has always been enough for me. Reliability has been excellent, and cost to maintain and insure has been very economical. The Japanese and German models are just too expensive to buy and maintain.
Ford and Lincoln models gives me a lot of car for the money. I get heated Mirrors and Seats, moonroof, included at a good price.

This is probably why corporate fleets buy domestic. (Cost of Ownership)

I drive my car for work. At 25 cents per mile, I need to get the most for the least. I just don’t purchase based upon resale. Cars are a losing deal, not an investment.

I love the Audi A8L, but I’m not about to drive one for company business.


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mkareshmkaresh - 5/14/2008 12:47:23 AM
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With reliability, it's important to also look at the size of the differences. Are we talking one extra repair in the first five years? Five? Ten?

Problem is, none of the established studies post the actual numbers for each car model. Instead, you get dots. So people who buy based on reliability often think the differences are much larger than they actually are.


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ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 5/14/2008 8:04:12 PM
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CR publishes a chart that gives the exact number of problems per 100 cars up to 10 years of age. you need a ruler to get exact readings, but the trend of the chart lines speak for themselves.

most brands get to 100 problems/100 vehicles at about 5 years of age. fords, the best non-japanese brand take 7 years to get there. both honda and toyota take more than 10 years.

the SERIOUSNESS of the problems is not addressed in this chart. however, you get a feeling for them by checking the CR Frequency of Repair charts, which list ~15 specific problem areas.

even when hondas and toyotas DO have problems, they are VERY MINOR compared to others.




ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 5/14/2008 8:15:08 PM
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for buyers who trade every 5 years or less, the problem rates prob'ly don't make enuff difference to prefer any brand. (other than your tolerance for dealer visits, and out of pocket expenses.) the primary economic factor would be depreciation rates.

for those who buy and keep their vehicles "until the wheels fall off," it is a NO BRAINER to get a honda or toyota product.

their REPUTATIONS did not get established WITHOUT reason. and the experience of MILLIONS of satisfied owners, as compiled by the stats CR collects. covering many DECADES now.




Htay7500Htay7500 - 5/15/2008 7:38:00 PM
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"even when hondas and toyotas DO have problems, they are VERY MINOR compared to others."

engine sludges and faulty transmissions are not "minor problems". they are just as serious as an electrical problem. you have to accept the fact that they have their problems. CR isn't going to tell you that. in fact, the forums that many owners post is what I'd rather rely on than a publication from 3 months ago.



ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 5/17/2008 3:48:30 AM
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the hondas that had tranny problems, DID cause a blip in the CR records. just look at the CR Frequency of repairs charts. you can pinpoint exactly which year and which models were affected.

if anything, this VERIFIES the accuracy of CR surveys. they are NOT arbitrary.

the engine sludge problems with SOME toyota engines were proved not significantly more frequent than with some other brands.

of course, the fact that these two BEST QUALITY brands on the planet have their occasional major problems, does make BIG NEWS. but when you look at the actual NUMBERS of affected vehicles, they are not significant enuff to pull down the average ratings.



HoseHose - 5/14/2008 8:36:02 AM
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Narrow it down to "a few" with acceptable specs and good reviews. Then, go with the best deal at the time.

Over the last 10 years, that has been Audi and Infiniti. Have always liked BMW, but never had decent deals on models I liked. The "nice" cars are just that.. nice. No sense in paying-up for a particular one as they're all good.




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AROD550IAROD550I - 5/15/2008 5:46:41 PM
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How it drives

How it Looks

How much it costs to maintain.


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