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Agent009
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Does Lexus Have An Ace In The Hole With the New IS-F?
Well it is about time! Lexus finally released the official Japanese domestic market specifications for the much heralded but statistically challenged warrior from the land of the rising sun. Now finally all of the arm chair racers of the world can speculate just how good the IS-F really may be. We can already hear those dismissing the IS-F as underpowered and too heavy, and on paper is may actually seem so.

Until you piece together the fine print that is.

While we might just be a few months away from an actual side by side comparison of the established Uber sedans and the new kid on the block. You need to be aware the IS-F may be coming to this shootout with an ace in the hole.

Several years of racing have taught me to never underestimate the competition, because when you do, you will get beat. I also learned that while many of the finer points of racing are skill and finesse, most of it can be scientifically calculated with a reasonable degree of accuracy. You can easily surf the web and find simple a calculator that promises to magically perform these tasks just using horsepower and curb weight to estimate a 0-60 or ¼ mile time. But my experience shows it is quite a bit more complicated than that. You have to compensate for torque, tire grip, and gear ratios and other factors.

After searching through my endless archive of software I whipped out one of my racing tools I have used in the past that estimates and analyzes performance and considers the following:

Horsepower @ what rpm , Torque @ what rpm, Tire Size and Profile, Final Drive Ratio, Transmission Ratios, Redline, Curb Weight, Wheelbase, and even Aerodynamic Drag,

Taking this data and other factors in to consideration it is possible to optimize launch point shift points and obtain a theoretical best effort. Using these results we can potentially obtain a theoretical comparison. Most car tests are now measured using computerized in car accelerometers instead of a fifth wheel device, but since we don’t have an example IS-F to test we can use the math. After all Newtonian physics really haven’t changed the formulas, technology just allows us to measure them more accurately.

Now all of this sounds great on paper, but does this really work? Pretty darn well as I found out and the results made me go back over the scenarios over and over again.

After obtaining all of the required data from the manufactures websites I entered in two benchmarks, to test the results. The 2007 RS4 and the 2008 BMW M3 both had recent tests published, and these gave me an idea if I was going to be accurate. As expected, I found the results were extremely close, and nothing was way out of the realm of reality.

The M3 was recently tested by Car and Driver in September and was found to perform 0-60 and ¼ mile times of 4.8 and 13.2 seconds. My program calculated 4.85 seconds and 13.2 respectively. Pretty scary, but was it a fluke? The RS4 also proved to be equally accurate, with the car testing at 4.9 and 13.2 seconds, and the calculated results indicating 4.9 and 13.2 seconds as well. This was pretty dead on, and about as good of a benchmark as we can expect.

So then I tossed in the upcoming 457hp 2008 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG as a wild card. What a beast. The advertised 0-60 is quoted at 4.5 seconds, and my calculations indicated 4.4 seconds and went on to predict a ¼ mile of 12.70 seconds as well. Very impressive and again confirming a degree of accuracy. I also threw the rumored 450 hp Audi RS4 just for giggles.

Now for the moment of truth. In went the Lexus IS-F data, more weight than the M3 and even less horsepower, a forgone conclusion right? You might think so, until you look at the gear ratios and the spread. It seems two more gears can make a heck of a difference.

Expecting the quoted 0-60 time of “less than 4.9 seconds” I was absolutely floored to see the program kicked out a 0-60 time of only 4.4 seconds. This was faster than the quoted time for the C63! Looking over to the ¼ miles I found I got 13.0 seconds flat. Only in the final few feet did the IS-F get beat by the C63 .

Well my friends, I have to admit, that me, the biggest Lexus pessimist in the world just learned on paper that Lexus had an ace in the hole those extra two gears. The lower first two gears allowed the torque to multiplied better and be applied in a more linear fashion to the pavement. Torque as most of us know, governs just how hard you accelerate and only further down the line horsepower takes over. The higher torque of the Lexus 5 liter and better gearing combined translated into one of the fastest 0-60 times and the second fastest ¼ mile in the calculations.

We will only know what the real life results will be when the cars are actually tested over the next few months. But in this scenario, using factory supplied specifications the results are pretty conclusive. Lexus may have placed a notch in the belt at the expense of a few our more pedigreed marques.

Below are the results of the software calculations:

Calculated 0-60 Times
4.4 secs. – 2008 Lexus IS-F
4.4 secs. – 2008 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG
4.7 secs. - 2008 BMW M3
4.8 secs. – 2008 Audi RS4 (450hp est)
4.9 secs. – 2007 Audi RS4

Calculated 0-100 Times
10.3 secs. – 2008 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG
10.5 secs. - 2008 Lexus IS-F
10.8 secs - 2008 Audi RS4 (450hp est)
11.1 secs. - 2008 BMW M3
11.3 secs. - 2007 Audi RS4

Calculated ¼ Mile Times
12.7 secs. @ 112.60 mph - 2008 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG
13.0 secs. @ 110.10 mph - 2008 Lexus IS-F
13.2 secs. @ 110.60 mph - 2008 BMW M3
13.2 secs. @ 108.20 mph - 2008 Audi RS4 (450hp est)
13.4 secs. @ 106.70 mph - 2007 Audi RS4



Does Lexus Have An Ace In The Hole With the New IS-F?



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KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 11:19:57 AM
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*See countless other threads.

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Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 11:35:08 AMView My AgentSpace
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This should be busy. So far we have tried two other professional software simulations and the currently back this data up.



KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 12:03:18 PM
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This software is mightily impressive alright. How does it cater for different gearbox setups? Is it just a matter of entering the claimed shift-speed as one of the parameters?


Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 1:39:54 PMView My AgentSpace
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It bases shift point in relation to torque available and poses theoretical shift points

In the case of the IS-F:
1st -7000 rpm
2nd- 7000 rpm
3rd- 6920 rpm
4th- 6700 rpm
5th- 6600 rpm (the simulation doesn't calculate the remaining gears)

The M3 is:
8500 rpm through the first 5 gears.

The program tests various scenarios before posting the optimum time. The Lexus HP is generated at a much lower RPM and the torque peaks differently as well changing the shift points. Where everything on the M3 is higher in the RPM range making you wring it out more.



Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 11:36:21 AMView My AgentSpace
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Well we had a similar amount when the M3 arrived as well. So it is their turn now.




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GTR35GTR35 - 10/5/2007 12:09:58 PMView My AgentSpace
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I thought you were banned 009 after asking if the IS-Fugly would compare to the Nissan GTR. I know you work for Autospies but you shouldnt be allowed to speak.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 12:22:19 PMView My AgentSpace
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But the thing is, 009, we've had IS-F threads all the time for about a year now. This isn't a new phenomenon.


Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 1:45:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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You gotta point, but the difference is that the Germans let it all out early so we know what we have pretty early.

Lexus realized that by keeping it a secret they generate more buzz, but also pissed quite a few people off in the process. Little leaks or comments get blown out of proportion in that type of scenario.

With the M3 we had all of the answers promptly, but with each tidbit from Lexus a story followed in the press (not just us).

I don't think we ever post a "what color is best" article for the M3. Because there were more important things to discuss.

Since color choice is all anybody had new for the IS-F it became a story.



CzelinskiCzelinski - 10/5/2007 11:36:26 AM
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The car needs all the help it can get it seems.

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BillBill - 10/5/2007 11:39:56 AM
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I predict:

279 flame war comments

105 of those comments will come from Nicad ranting on how great this car is and how it will destroy everything in its path...

45 of the 279 comments will come from Houstoncutie showcasing the various quality awards and performance awards the IS-F has garnered in its first week after the specs were released.

Flame on, folks!


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Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 11:42:34 AMView My AgentSpace
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LOL- you might have a point there



BillBill - 10/5/2007 11:46:43 AM
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LOL

What happened to Huu76? And David989? I miss their posts!



M53RM53R - 10/5/2007 1:25:29 PMView My AgentSpace
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^^ Because they didnt have daddy toyota with millions in his pocket.


KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 1:36:17 PM
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lol, I suppose inventing the car in the first doesn't really count for anything. How can you compare the auto industry 100 years ago to today.


Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 2:01:24 PMView My AgentSpace
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Maybe they need to charge less, sounds like they may be gouging the marketed.

Sales and profit are a measure of success, but in no way infer quality of the product.

For example toy maker can make billions making a cheap plastic toy with mass appeal. But that doesn't mean the toy won't break easily in normal use. It just means they have a higher profit margin.



BillBill - 10/5/2007 2:50:57 PM
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Lexus can win the Rolex Series all they want. Most people have never heard about this racing series. Ring me up when Lexus actually competes in a difficult racing series like Le Mans, Carrera Panamericana, London-Sydney Rally (the world's most difficult rally route) etc.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 7:03:27 PM
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houston:

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

PLEASE STOP.



r15mohdr15mohd - 10/5/2007 11:57:55 AM
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you had their attention until the LS statement...sorry but its true.

the LS is a great vehicle...and a true competitor as well, but its biggest task wasnt the reviews...it is winning over the German competitors, as with the same of the IS-F


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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 10/5/2007 11:58:11 AM
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you had me until the last sentence. The LS is hardly better in every review than all those cars. The LS has come in first in some, last in others, and that's for the LS460. The LS600h is pretty universally considered a disappointment in reviews.

Is this the "real" Will? I notice the underscore after the name has like three extra spaces. As biased as Will is he usually doesn't make completely inaccurate blanket statements like this.


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KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 12:01:07 PM
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"The amount of time and dedication Lexus put into this car is evident (from the unique stacked tailpipes to the tremendous quality of the interior leather and stitching)."

Were you being sarcastic there Will?


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StarStar - 10/5/2007 12:08:35 PM
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"Just remember how everyone disparaged the LS before it came out and now it clearly, from every review, is better than the S-Class, A8, and 7-Series."


The LS finished in the last place against those cars in every single review . Do you live on this planet?
The IS-F will have the same fate when REAL LIFE results will be released instead of the ridiculous computer generated predictions.
The Lexus fanbois and their favorite cars can live in their virtual computer generated world where Lexus is battling Mercedes and BMW. For the rest of us(who live in the real world) Lexus is nothing more than a "well appointed" Toyota that never, ever competed with the real luxury car makers like Mercedes or BMW.


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LuxuriousLuxurious - 10/5/2007 12:21:56 PM
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I gotta agree with Will, look at the sales figures from September, the LS outsold the S-Class+A8+7-series combined, i know its the newest between all, but still to outsell all combined that is something..plus i've seen the IS-F in person..truly it is a force to be reckoned with.
by the way good job 009..


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henbmwhenbmw - 10/5/2007 12:37:52 PM
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Luxurious- Can you please show where you got these outlandish figures.

Will- Somehow you aim to argue that 'time and dedication' separate Lexus from the German brands. You mean to tell me that BMW, Mercedes and Audi all don't put in their time and aren't dedicated to their cars?


009- "The M3 was recently tested by Car and Driver in September and was found to perform 0-60 and ¼ mile times of 4.8 and 13.2 seconds."

Are you referring to another Car and Driver? They just got 4.4 and 12.9 for the M3 in their September article. Here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/download/0709_bmwm3_08_ss.pdf


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LuxuriousLuxurious - 10/5/2007 12:56:47 PM
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henbmw-
Lexus sold 2,918 LS (http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007100234924), Mercedes-Benz sold 1,964 S-Class (http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent009/Sept%202007%20Merc.JPG), Audi sold 311 A8/S8 (http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent009/Sept%202007%20Audi.JPG), and BMW sold 482 7-series (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/10-02-2007/0004674713&EDATE=TUE+Oct+02+2007,+04:46+PM)
So my friend 1964+311+482=2,757 << 2,918..and I think it was a similar case in august..


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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 10/5/2007 1:04:37 PM
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Luxurious, I'm not going to look up the figures, if that's true good for Lexus. You're ignoring something though that you mentioned in your post -- every time a new car comes out from one of the "big" competitors in this class, it dominates the others for awhile. When you're talking about vehicles like these, vehicles that only sell in limited quantities, even a slight fluctuation in consumer tendencies make a big impact on comparative sales figures. Why do you suppose none of these brands come out with brand new 7's, S's, LS's, etc. at exactly the same time? It's a game of one upmanship. It happened with the previous generation S-class, then the 2002 7-Series, then again when the 2006 7-Series refresh came out, then the new S-Class. Now it's the Lexus. It'll happen again in about 12 months when the new 7-Series comes out, and again after that when the new whatever by whoever comes out. It's cyclical, when you have rich people with disposable income the newest, coolest, hottest thing sells. Right up until the next guy comes out with the newest, coolest, hottest thing.

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LuxuriousLuxurious - 10/5/2007 1:13:50 PM
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JRobUSC, i agree with you man, and also good for Mercedes-Benz, the S-Class been out for a year now and it is still selling big (1,964 in september), but my point is Do Not Ignore Lexus, there is a difference between selling more cars and outselling the mighty german 3 all at once..

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pushrod27pushrod27 - 10/5/2007 3:06:36 PM
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You are a dumbass. The LS doesn't beat the S-Class! Even in Toyota's favorite magazine - Consumer Reports, they admit that the S-Class is the better car.

Consumer Reports declared the Lexus the winner in a comparison with the S-Class. That's what it says on the cover. But if you actually read the article, they say that the S550 is superior in acceleration, handling, ride, and interior fit and finish.
So why does the Lexus win? It's $20,000 cheaper. That's it! They said something about the M-B's controls being too complicated, but that's really stupid.

Adding insult to injury, if you buy the issue of CR with the LS460 vs. S550 comparison, you can clearly see two women behind the wheels of the cars as they are being tested. The test results are null and void because of that. What idiot asks a woman which car is best??? Women know what looks good, yes, but they aren't qualified to determine the mechanical quality of an automobile.


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Will_Will_ - 10/5/2007 9:08:27 PM
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I'm still not sure if this is supposed to be a complete mockery of me or not, but I agree with "Will____."

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:47:02 PMView My AgentSpace
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"I'm still not sure if this is supposed to be a complete mockery of me or not, but I agree with "Will____.""

You do? Because if you think the LS has won in every review and is "clearly" better than its competition, than your respect is plummeting like the resale of a Maserati Quattroporte...


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Will_Will_ - 10/5/2007 11:40:07 PM
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It may not be "clear" to the lot of you but it's very clear to me that the LS excels in luxury above every other car in the class, "fanboy or not." I'm kind of tired of being "politically-correct." The LS has lost every comparison test it has been in because it's too focused on luxury instead of sport.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 12:12:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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I am blown away. You're still not getting it.

The S-Class and A8L are not only as luxurious as the LS460L, but they drive better, too.

How can I put it any more clearly than that?

As an all-in-one car, I'd probably take an S8. But in this class, if I had a C2S on the side, I'd take an LS460L or S550. That's just how I feel.


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r15mohdr15mohd - 10/5/2007 11:55:27 AM
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well as much as you blame about flame wars, you all are provoking them.

so there are flame-oriented users here, what board doesnt have them? everytime you acknowldge them, you pretty much submit yourself to their goal and status.

however on these calculations...very well done 009. as much as i would lvoe to take your word for it and go with these numbers, we havent been release with any USDM specs and i rather actual testing to prove everything else subjective to these numbers as well.

on another hand...i hope those who doubted the IS-F can come to udnerstand that they shouldnt be taken lightly. we have to wait and see all the other aspects involved, suspension attitubutes/handling, etc before anythign can be claimed, but in all doubtful minds, the IS-F will be a car to be taken seriously.



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Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 12:31:39 PMView My AgentSpace
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The USDM figures should be close. The emission controls are a bit tighter here as well.

But overall the figures should not be impacted tremendously. only a few percentage points in error.




HwanyHwany - 10/5/2007 11:56:36 AM
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C63 AMG advertised time is 0-62 in 4.5 seconds I believe.

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HwanyHwany - 10/5/2007 12:07:48 PM
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I'm littl surprise about the 0-60 times of IS-F. Maybe the 8-speed auto is not bad after all.

I'll bet, though, the C63 AMG will be the fastest
on straight line. One can easily tune it back to its "normal" 507hp and now..it'll just fly-by.

I can't wait for the ppl to test drive it on the track all those cars you have mentioned.

Let's find out who will be the fastest on the track!



CzelinskiCzelinski - 10/5/2007 11:56:42 AM
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"What happened to Huu76? And David989? I miss their posts!"

Probably left the basement and went out into the real world. Never to be seen again...


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KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 11:59:01 AM
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Poor little guys, they'll be eaten alive in the real world...


BillBill - 10/5/2007 2:53:48 PM
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And that's a bad thing that you're still here...


BillBill - 10/5/2007 2:54:43 PM
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And that's a bad thing that you're still here...


ShredmoShredmo - 10/5/2007 12:12:12 PM
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Dead horse seasoned up a bit.

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M35MTM35MT - 10/5/2007 12:12:27 PMView My AgentSpace
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Those are impressive numbers. Lexus' always sell well, so they shouldn't be worried there, although if the real numbers do turn out this good, it will give them some actual street cred.

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answeranswer - 10/5/2007 12:19:35 PMView My AgentSpace
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Thanks for the effort you put into this 009.

The real story won't be known until the IS-F and its peers are tested together, and even then people will still have their own opinions.

Whether you choose the IS-F, M3, Audi, or Benz, you will have the same end result: a truly kick-ass car.

So, um, why the hell do we need to argue about this every day????


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KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 12:23:53 PM
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Because we have no lives... I mean.. because we're passionate about cars. :P


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 12:24:41 PMView My AgentSpace
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I agree, answer.

If there was an IS-F convertible, my dream fleet would be perfect: RS4 sedan, M3 coupe, C63 wagon and IS-F CC.



Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 12:41:40 PMView My AgentSpace
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Thanks! As most of you are painfully aware, I am not a huge Lexus fan. But these theoretical figures speak for themselves so they needed to be posted.

BTW so far it has been picked up by another site and they are scrutinizing the figures as well. So far a few of their resident brainiacs are picking at them and they seem to be standing up well so far.

I was wonder how the 8 speed could factor in, but could do anything until I got the gear ratios and final drive to but the theory to test.



ste_u6ste_u6 - 10/9/2007 12:52:46 PM
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oh my god, there is someone with intelligence here!!!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 12:23:49 PMView My AgentSpace
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This isn't news, and this story is useless. We all know the IS-F will be fast, but this calculator is incorrect. We all also know that the M3 and RS4 are much quicker than your times, 009-- the RS4 has achieved a 4.3 second time and quarter-mile times of under 13, while the M3 has gotten very similar results.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 12:25:30 PMView My AgentSpace
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And I was de-boosted, why? I simply stated facts, and didn't even say anything derogatory about the IS-F- just about the article.


KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 12:28:31 PM
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Indeed, the only way of knowing which to 60 would be to have one driver do runs in all the cars on the same day on the same track, and even then that might not be accurate enough. Rest assured they're all rediculously fast though. Who would of thought 20 years ago you could buy a 4-door saloon that could go from 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.


Agent009Agent009 - 10/5/2007 2:08:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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I only saw one test where the RS4 went sub 13 seconds, the reset show around 13.2. You have to throw out the high and the low and take the avg.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 3:29:16 PMView My AgentSpace
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Okay, but you must do the same for 0-60. The RS4's average is about 4.5. Computer-generations just don't work if they don't fit with real-life instances.


KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 12:29:42 PM
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Stop re-baiting, there's already enough worms on the hook.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 12:48:13 PM
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nice try rice.
you're just dishing out the same blather.


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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 12:46:28 PM
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STOP IT.
NO MORE SPECULATION.

THERE IS NOTHING FACTUAL HERE TO TALK ABOUT.


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EL34EL34 - 10/5/2007 1:17:10 PM
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There's no doubt over in Japan there has been a lot of reverse engineering going on with the Mercedes, BMW and Audi cars.

Japan should stick with what they do best, Corollas!



KingerKinger - 10/5/2007 1:39:15 PM
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Yes, that lowest retention rate is really something to be proud of. Oh, and German cars are built for the autobahn, they have no problem handling high speeds well in excess of 100mph.


flozel1flozel1 - 10/5/2007 1:41:44 PM
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"Japan should stick with what they do best, Corollas!"

And you should stick with what you do best...masturbating.



85bmw745i85bmw745i - 10/6/2007 3:22:12 PMView My AgentSpace
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Sales don't mean $hit, the Ford Explorer was the best selling SUV in its class for a long time and it was the biggest piece of crap suv you could buy. I like Toyota and Lexux but ignorant and narrow minded people like houston hoochie and David 989 are actually starting to make me dislike the companies. Be real and open minded, not so one sided and narrow minded. Each car has their own audience and own purpose, otherwise the lexus would handle better and be more of a driverfs car, but not everyone wants a sporty luxury car just like not everyone wands to drive a couch to work. otherwise every car would be the same. I am a Die hard BMW fan and thats all I have ever owned except for a toyota celica, nissan 240sx and an old volvo back in the military along with my BMW. I think German cars have the best engineering when it comes to handling and making a true drivers car, made for the enthusiastic driver.


M53RM53R - 10/5/2007 1:32:34 PMView My AgentSpace
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Bill was right... LOL!

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pushrod27pushrod27 - 10/5/2007 3:10:06 PM
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Houstoncutie... WHY WON'T YOU DIE???

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 3:31:04 PMView My AgentSpace
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I'm sure the S5/RS5's Bang&Olufsen sound system will beat the IS-F's ML.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:49:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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And because AutoSpies says so, it must be true?

I was actually just trying to get you riled up--you claim to be an Audi fan, after all--but the S8 won the Best Stereo Award in the 2007 Interior Awards.


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KingerKinger - 10/8/2007 4:59:33 AM
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Princess Diana was travelling in the safest car around at the time. The W140 S-class was built like a tank, she died because she wasn't wearing her seat-belt. Why do i even bother trying to talk sense into you houstoncootie? It's like arguing with a child.



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AE86AE86 - 10/5/2007 1:51:27 PM
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I am sure 100% of AutoSpies readers are ready to order an M3, IS-F or RS4. Hell, most will probably get 2 of the 3 to go along with their Bently.

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tekknikaltekknikal - 10/5/2007 2:13:30 PM
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I'm tired of these posts. After the last GT-R vs IS-F article i should have put 009 on my ignore list. But there isn't one.

I don't know where to begin here. First we start by discussing armchair racing.. but then we do it. ok.

If we're going to go along with it, lets discuss what the ace in the hole is for the IS-F, since that's what the title of the article is about.

So far as I can tell, it's the 8 speed transmission.

But it obviously can't be because the transmission isn't actually as aggressively geared as you'd think. Lexus made the last two gears O/D gears. In 7th you can go past 200mph. But there's another gear. For those who aren't into the math, that means that the lower gears arent nearly as tight as they could have been...meaning the car won't stay in powerband to the extent that the 'direct sport-shift 8speed transmission' name implies. I would imagine Lexus did this to improve economy, to give them a (larger) advantage over the M3 in that regard.

But this is another way of saying that it's definitely not an ace in the hole on the track.

Regarding the higher torque at lower rpm.. That's only useful at launch.

I don't want to talk about that 'professional' program but since it's being thrown around I must ask: how does it take into effect the upper rpm torque curve characteristics? Since this is what matters most? I'd assume by a best fit model. Umm ok, but what happens when MFR's "tweak" hp numbers as often happens? Obviously that's not taken into account. It can't be. Some say the difference is trivial. Run the analysis with a G37 vs a 335i. I've done it by hand.

Yeah the difference is trivial, if several car lengths don't matter.

I could go on but I won't.

All I take this to mean is that one man has woken up to realize a car he's hated and written off isn't as slow as he thought and is actually still competitive against the car he loves. So, he's actually acknowledging some numbers. Good for him.

I'm sorry that it took his programs to do it though.

I pity him, seeing as this is what he writes on yet he has such a bias. He favors cars (and dislikes others) for reasons that have nothing to do with the cars themselves. I pity him for the false sense of satisfaction that exists in his life when he looks at his German engineering and compares it to the Japanese competition.

Anyay

I look forward to the article regarding the Ace in the Hole for the GT-R.


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:53:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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THERE WILL BE NO TEN-SPEED TRANSMISSION.

Holy crap, you have no clue about automotive engineering. At a point--probably the eight-speed point--extra gearing becomes unnecessary. The cars on our road would have to become dramatically faster to necessitate such a ridiculous automatic transmission. A six-speed (or better yet, six-speed DSG) is more than good enough for 99% of the cars on the road today. The LS460 would do perfectly well with a six- or seven-speed. And don't tell me they "over-engineered" it. It's a proverbial passing of the olympic torch; it's not some incredible feat for Lexus to have added an extra cog to the transmission. So many other brands have done it in the past, including Mercedes-Benz.



cdhzhpcdhzhp - 10/5/2007 2:14:35 PM
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I just wanted to be the 70th comment on this gran turismo simulation. oh no, i just overheated on excitebike, must have miscalculated the rpm

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 7:02:08 PM
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it's remarkable how much you know about the IS-F since we still don't have detailed specs and nobody has driven it yet.

you're amazing nicad! clairvoyant!


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FULEXUSFULEXUS - 10/5/2007 2:27:39 PM
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The pro-Lexus posts on this site are really not flattering to the Lexus name. No one here that is into BMW, Merc, Audi, etc would ever say "their" favorite car is the best car ever, will win every award ever given, & beat the Veyron. It's actually kind of sad. Wouldn't it be better to let the car speak for itself once it is actually released? I don't need some uneducated kid on a Blog to tell me that the car he hopes to have when him and George Castanza graduate from architect school is the best car ever made.

At this point, this is nothing but advertising to get everyone, or at least the Lexus lovers hyped up about this car. There is no way to know for sure how this car will perform until it's tested in the "real" world. Any car company can over-rate their HP to look good on paper. Ford's been doing this for years with the Mustang. What was it around 1999-2000 when the Cobra was recalled because the real world HP and performance didn't match the advertised? It was a second slower in the quarter mile compared to the same rated HP Camaro SS.

I have a great question that no one has asked. How is the HP rated? Is this crankshaft HP, SAE net? This isn't stated anywhere. It's not rear wheel HP. All the cars in this segment would run low 12's in the quarter if it was rear wheel HP.

I also doubt the accuracy of the computer generated model since this is the first 8 speed transmission produced, not to mention the fact that it's an automatic transmission compared to the other manuals. Automatic transmissions are known for consuming more HP than a manual, usually 20-30+ more. You also have to factor in the percentage of loss from the torque converter. This could be 5% or more compared to 0% with the clutch/manual setup.

Anyone that's ever been around racing is also aware of the fact that automatics are not desirable in a car that is road raced. An automatic used for this type of application will normally generate uncontrollable heat and burn itself up; again, something that will only be revealed in "real-world" testing.




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BillBill - 10/5/2007 2:59:54 PM
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Welcome to Autospies! Home of the retarded Lexus fanboys, silly little flame wars and overall, a load of fun! I'm enjoying myself on here these days reading these dumb arguments coming from total losers like NICAD, HOUSTONCUTIE, DAVID989 (and DAVID999) etc.


david999david999 - 10/5/2007 6:51:31 PM
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I enjoy reading your very unbiased comments Bill. You are my hero. I notice that at least 70% of your posts are anti-Lexus, but that's ok. It's twits like you that keep Autospies humming, along with the the other badge whores that believe
nothing good comes out of Japan.



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:54:45 PMView My AgentSpace
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EL34 is irrelevant.


BillBill - 10/6/2007 11:58:40 AM
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Face it, Mr. David999,

You're equally as fanboyish as the rest of your Lexus friends. No offense...



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 7:22:05 PM
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for all the 'badge whore' comments that are thrown and BMW and Mercedes fans, i must say that lexus fans really do take first prize.

just because of a badge--and without any bran