Agent001
Agent001
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Does a Mercedes REALLY last three times longer than a BMW?
I have been a travelling fool for the last few weeks with the Detroit Auto Show, Mercedes C-Class intro in Stuttgart and the Kia Rondo drive this week in Phoenix.

And the schedule is not going to get any easier over the next few months...

On my trip to Stuttgart, I heard what could be one of the biggest 'Disses' ever when (I won't reveal their identity or what company they work for) threw a real backhanded slap at BMW.

When I posed the question:

If the BMW 3-Series keeps winning award after award and beating the C-Class, shouldn't Mercedes just build a better 3-Series and end BMW's streak?

This person fired this bomb right back at me...

The BMW may drive well but it will only last 100k miles vs. 300k for a Mercedes C-Class.

WOW, I thought!

These are fightin' words!

This couldn't be true, could it?

I find it hard to believe but all I can say is the person who said this definitely had the background and experience in the business to make me think long and hard about what they had to say and wonder.

I wish I knew the way to actually find out if it is true because I don't, so I will open up this discussion to the most knowledgeable car enthusiasts in the world...our readers.

What are your thoughts and experience on this subject?

I will now duck behind the bunker and watch this battle begin...


Does a Mercedes REALLY last three times longer than a BMW?



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mstangpny07mstangpny07 - 1/24/2007 9:39:33 PMView My AgentSpace
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My C280 lasted for six months before it broke.
My 528i had no problems for the four years I've owned it.
My X5 has given me no problems since 2003.


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BillBill - 1/25/2007 9:30:05 AM
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What does this have to do with "lasting longer"? Any car can break down.


mstangpny07mstangpny07 - 1/25/2007 4:51:28 PMView My AgentSpace
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a car that lasts longer dosen't break down. A car that dosen't last as long breaks down easily.
I was saying the C380 broke down, and I had to sell it.



LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 1/24/2007 9:45:11 PM
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my 1981 SEC500 has had no problems for 26 years...although i know it was a pre-chrysler day car.

my RX330 lexus? the most reliable car ive ever owned.


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 11:07:25 PMView My AgentSpace
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Wait- how is that possible if your Mercedes has been trouble-free for much, much longer? Contradictory.


LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 1/24/2007 11:24:15 PM
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lol well...when i said problem free, i meant for a 26 year old car. The rear window defroster doesnt work. most of the backlights on the dash are out. and it really is a POS, lol


silverarrow2silverarrow2 - 1/25/2007 2:15:29 AM
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lexusguy,

Who asked about Toyota?



EL34iEL34i - 1/25/2007 2:48:57 AM
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^^ probably the same people who asked for a pompous knock at Toyota?


SixxFiveSixxFive - 1/24/2007 10:04:03 PM
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"The BMW may drive well but it will only last 100k miles vs. 300k for a Mercedes C-Class."

Are posts like this created to draw people to Autospies in a similar fashion that Donald Trump and Rosie publically denounce one another in an effort to increase their TV show ratings (tabloid journalism)?


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vdivvdiv - 1/25/2007 9:09:48 AM
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Well, you are here aren't you? :) Now tell us what you think and be ready to stand the flames :)

How long a car lasts is so subjective and so much dependent on circumstances that a claim like this has no factual base. The same model can last forever and hit 1,000,000 miles or be trashed in the first year of its life. It really depends on the caretakers.



Agent63Agent63 - 1/24/2007 10:05:21 PMView My AgentSpace
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I think it varies because some apples from the batch will never be 100% perfect. A family friend's X5 completely died on him and BMW gave him a new car. I see old 1983 Turbo Diesel S-Classes still running and in mint condition. I've seen Lexus with problems. Each and every brand out there have their own good and bad. It's really hard to say. If a guy punches his car around town every day for sure it's bound to fail on him. Comparing to a guy who drives his car normally, does his regular maintenance there's no doubt in my mind his car will last a lot longer.

So in this case Does Mercedes really last longer? YES AND NO. It all depends on the driver and if it's the unlucky sour apple from the batch.


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MercBasherMercBasher - 1/24/2007 10:08:02 PM
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Agent 001, hopefully your travels will be reduced for a while - your editorial talents have been sorely missed. Agent 009's pro-Audi agenda, inane headlines and choice of material have all been painful to read. So again welcome back.

I do believe that a 1970's or 1980's Mercedes will last longer than an equivalent era BMW. However to assume that the a Mercedes from this decade is going to last longer than a BMW is an extraordinary leap of faith.

New Mercedes vehicles have had so many problems in this decade[examples are electronics, a/c, suspension, brakes] - in no way is this a basis for great longevity.

One ray of sunshine for Mercedes is the leadership in diesels, because diesels last longer than regular engines when properly made and maintained.


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Agent001Agent001 - 1/24/2007 10:23:03 PMView My AgentSpace
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Thanks for the vote of confidence!

009 is a wanker when it comes to Audi... ;)

001



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2007 11:08:35 PMView My AgentSpace
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I can't blame him.


mitchatlexusofmarinmitchatlexusofmarin - 1/25/2007 12:46:47 AM
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I second that emotion (to music). You were greatly missed and 009 is a little too biased to be where he was placed.


EL34EL34 - 1/24/2007 10:25:58 PM
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I hear the LS460 will last a million miles before breaking down.

Is it true?


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answeranswer - 1/24/2007 10:51:32 PMView My AgentSpace
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I heard you were going to post a million times before actually being funny.

Is that true?



sewingmachinesewingmachine - 1/24/2007 11:33:33 PM
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hahaha


maikoazumaikoazu - 1/25/2007 1:49:58 AM
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That's so funny =)


EL34iEL34i - 1/25/2007 2:50:40 AM
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I hear you will drive a million clients before making any sales.


EL34EL34 - 1/25/2007 10:08:00 AM
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I've been know to be called the real estate undertaker because I drive them around until their dead.


SixxFiveSixxFive - 1/24/2007 10:38:35 PM
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An automotive insider (secretly) told me that a Lexus LS will last 1 million miles before breakdown but a Kia will last 10 million. I promised not to pass this bomb on but I couldn't resist.

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LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 1/24/2007 11:25:20 PM
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thats not even realistic.


Agent004Agent004 - 1/24/2007 11:53:19 PMView My AgentSpace
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He was making a joke on EL34's comment...


LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 1/24/2007 11:56:46 PM
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lololol its so hard to tell sarcasm online. lawl


EL34EL34 - 1/25/2007 10:08:48 AM
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Billabong.


acurardxacurardx - 1/24/2007 10:52:07 PM
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My Mercedes-Benz Ml500 last 7years.
My Bmw 2006 3Series Broke down last month
My Acura Rdx just owned 4month and its great


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JasonRBareJasonRBare - 1/25/2007 10:32:13 AM
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That's funny, The ML500 only began in 2002. How did yours last 7 years?


RefuGRefuG - 1/25/2007 11:30:08 AM
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He must have got it when it was still a concept, lol.

"My Bmw 2006 3Series Broke down last month"

What exactly "broke down" means in your term I aim to question.


G




MunichRobMunichRob - 1/24/2007 10:59:50 PMView My AgentSpace
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‘Larry’ I’d like to see you submit enough articles every week to keep all the readers happy. You might like a couple articles here or there or dislike them, but at the end of the day all topics are discussed on autopsies.

So back on topic…I find it very hard to believe this comment made to 001 by whoever it was because it’s no secret, in the last decade Mercedes hasn’t really been known for their quality as they have luxury.

To many people Mercedes would be the GM of German car’s if you will, because they bang out so many different models that you might loose track, as might they.

As far as proof goes, you might just have to drive them both until they’re toast, then see which one lasted longer…my money’s on the Bim.


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audirevolutionaudirevolution - 1/24/2007 11:38:11 PM
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Well, my 5er lasted 2 1/2 years before giving me some electrical problems ( 04' MY)
But the Mercedes E class I had before was far less reliable.


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LarryLarry - 1/24/2007 11:47:27 PM
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my response has been taken off, the truth hurts, and yes I could post a more interesting information than these lazy gossip articles, no offense but the old website was better, I just expect the site to have more fact based information.

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Agent001Agent001 - 1/24/2007 11:54:41 PMView My AgentSpace
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And as long as you state your opinion in a classy way, it will stay.

We're all about constructive criticism.

001



Agent004Agent004 - 1/24/2007 11:55:40 PMView My AgentSpace
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My 330 is coming up on 5 years old and aside from self induce problems(I blew the engine) it has been trouble free...ish. My only complaint is with the bushings, I'm on my second set, but I don't know if that's because Boston roads suck, or because they are inferior bushings. I do read quite a lot about them from the E46 era, so I'm guessing the latter.

However, if the bushings are setup to make it drive like it does, then I have no problems replacing them ever 40,000 miles.


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mac075mac075 - 1/25/2007 12:50:35 AM
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i've had 2 mb's and 2 bmw's in my lifetime so far....
1) 1997 Z3 Roadster 6 cylinder - Not one problem or service or recall or anything in 24,000 miles 2) 1999 C230 Kompressor - It was being fixed at the dealership at least once a month and it had nothing but transmission and technical problems for all 36,000 miles 3) 2002 E320 - loved it BUT had lots of mechanincal and technical issues again - always being fixed during all 45,000 miles! 4) 2006 BMW X5 - only had it since august and nothing has gone wrong with it at all!!! AND it feels like a tank, the doors feel like vault doors and the drive is comfortable and sporty for an SUV... bottom line - I'm going to stick to BMW over mercedes.... also, with the mercedeses, the technical problems were from the first month or two of driving them, not after huge amounts of miles or anything, they were all leases - AND this one which is a lease too - i am definitely buying in the end... the new X5 is nice, but I saw one with a sticker of $72k plus and it didn't have an automatic opening lift gate or the side windows shades or any special interior fittings/piping/upgrades over a $45K version... I was disappointed and like the last generation X5 better.... expecially the button on the bottom half of the liftgate.... subtle and easy to operate, the new one is a full size lever that you need to actually hold with a hand to use.... not so convenient and it looks terrible and cheap..... which makes me wonder if BMW is cheapening their products while still asking premium prices? Hmmmm I guess we'll see in a few years


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mstangpny07mstangpny07 - 1/25/2007 7:51:46 AMView My AgentSpace
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are you on x5world?


Lem1972Lem1972 - 1/25/2007 12:50:38 AM
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I have a 1985 635csi in mint condition. I've had for almost three years, and it's never given me any problems. The in-line six engine has a reputation as being bullet-proof.

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RefuGRefuG - 1/25/2007 11:32:11 AM
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Gotta love those 1980's 6 series.


G



RupertRupert - 1/25/2007 4:21:01 PMView My AgentSpace
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love your car.
damn you....
it looks like a shark, it's so cool.



themantheman - 1/25/2007 3:57:33 AM
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Mercedes USED to have the most reliable cars on the planet..With the new generation cars coming, I truly believe that Benz will once again conquer the automotive world in this category..But if you compare a 2002 S class with a 2002 7 Series..You will find that the same issues reoccur on both cars..

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ninenine - 1/25/2007 4:07:29 AMView My AgentSpace
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sure. Obviously the BMW will be better than the Mercedes all the time, and that is obviously a biased answer back to the interviewer.

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IS3andMEIS3andME - 1/25/2007 7:39:27 AM
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It also varies on how one treats or keeps their car. I have seen Lexus' that have unreliable, but the owners didn't do "preventive maintance" on the car, ie, changing the oil regularly. So of course the car wasn't going to last.
If a speed racer type of person has a BMW and doesn't maintain it versus a person who has a Benz (typical Benz drivers in the US are not Speed Racers)who maintains the car, which one od you think will last longer.


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BillBill - 1/25/2007 9:27:13 AM
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Every car has the potential to last long, it simply depends upon how they're treated and built. Both Mercedes and BMW are well-built cars, but sometimes owners have such high expectations and forget to take care of some of the most basic needs and this is what can lead to the car to break down etc.

In my personal experience, Mercedes has excellent build quality. I've been driving these starting in the late 1970s. My first Mercedes was a greay-import European 350SL followed by a 300D Turbodiesel in 1981. Then I moved on to a 300E (1988) and also bought a 1991 Toyota Cressida as a second car in the early 1990s. I kept the 300E until 1997 when I bought a brand new E420, my first modern Benz V8. Currently driving an S550. On all my Mercedes', I've never had any major problems. In fact, my son is still driving the 300D Turbodiesel, which I kept and handed down to him. I'll need to check the current mileage but I handed him this car with around 281,000 miles on the odometer.

It has to be said that I always changed the oil for example according to the instruction manuals, on all my cars. The same applies to other common chores that have to be done to ensure proper running.


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cckwcckw - 1/25/2007 11:58:40 AM
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For all the suckers above who think you know it all, one thing you don’t know is this site always trolling for hits!! It’s always Lexus vs. BMW, BMW vs. Mercedes, etc, etc. Don’t fall for this kind of trick again!

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supermotosupermoto - 1/25/2007 12:21:18 PM
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Who cares how long a car will last?? I want a new car after 10k or 30k miles, not 100k or 300k miles!!!! It reminds me of a comment by Clarkson, something like "This Honda will probably last for 5,000 years, every one of them dreadfully boring."

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neverliftneverlift - 1/25/2007 1:24:10 PM
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I think Mercedes has figured out that you are their new trget market. In the pre '92 era Benz' cars had less flash, fewer gadgets, were built like tanks, (rode like that too!), and ran on indefinitely. Their new wave cars are styled (kind of) plasticized and probably not meant to be as durable as the market doesn't value that as much today. It's a lease, not a buy. It's more like a suit of clothes. And IMHO while buyers used to put more weight on long lasting "return on investment" (least cost/value really) now it's more about whether one can afford the monthly to look good. Can't blame the mfrs for recognizing the trend.


jianye3jianye3 - 1/25/2007 1:54:32 PM
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Does it really matter if MB lasts 300,000 miles? Let's say you have the money to get a MB or a BMW. While not a terribly expensive cars, They do cost about 35k to buy brand new after taxes and delivery. add in finance charges, and u could be very close to 40k. chances are, you have some funds.

most people drive 10 to 12k miles a year. so 100,000 miles is 10 years. 300,000 miles is close to 25-30 years.... if you have money, do u really want to drive around a 25 year old car?

in that time, your car maker will probably have gone to 2-3-maybe even 4 or 5 refreshers or complete redesigns for that car model.

or, new technologies from other car manufacturers will come out.

as long as it can go 100k without major inconveniences/problems... isn't that realistically people would need/put up with?

i mean... do you really want to drive around a 25 year old mb?


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Sauceboy01Sauceboy01 - 1/25/2007 2:42:59 PM
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This topic seems rigged.

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sold2earlysold2early - 1/25/2007 3:04:53 PM
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I want a job at Autospies. I wonder if they vote on who they're going to piss off each day.

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CarboyCarboy - 1/25/2007 3:15:15 PMView My AgentSpace
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My 2000 S430 is stll alive, but my friend's cousin's father had a 1999 S500 and it died this year.

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weaponXweaponX - 1/25/2007 3:36:51 PM
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That's a pretty bold statement considering Mercedes didn't exactly distinguish themselves from the latest Consumer Reports reliability studies.

In fact they had the most models labelled as having poor reliability out of all car manufacturers. BMW meanwhile only had the 7-series as having below average reliability.


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KeyserSozeKeyserSoze - 1/25/2007 3:42:31 PM
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I owned a 2005 BMW 320D and it was a nightmare, the most unreliable POS. Never again a BMW! MY ML500 & IS250 I will never look back!

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ryaajusryaajus - 1/25/2007 3:58:44 PM
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KeyserSoze...that's a miracle. I've never heard of an ML owner who hasn't had multiple problems. They need to put you on the news.


audirevolutionaudirevolution - 1/25/2007 4:19:14 PM
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Give BMW another chance. My 530i 04' had its first problem after 2 1/2 years. It wasn't anything serious however. The 3 series tends to be more reliable than the 5. You must of had a lemon.
My A4 06' is doing great so far as well.

You got extremely lucky on the ML500.
My friend drives a 2002 ML and HATES it.



RupertRupert - 1/25/2007 4:47:29 PMView My AgentSpace
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audi revolution: same here.
friend despises her ML, so many problems, and such bad customer care (merc Uk treat you like crap)



ryaajusryaajus - 1/25/2007 3:51:46 PM
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I would seriously doubt it...nowadays Mercs seem to have more problems (electrical) but everyone I know that owns a an x5 has multiple problems. Hell, they've been recalled several times...the people I know own x5s that are a few years old now and I've heard they've corrected the problems but neither one of them have major engine problems

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RupertRupert - 1/25/2007 4:22:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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the german car specialist near me syas he sees a lot more older bmws with problems than mercs.
of course, in 3 years, this will change when he has to start repairing all the useless MLs.


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AmazingBimmerAmazingBimmer - 1/25/2007 4:55:32 PM
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agent. idiotic comment. this is the best you can come up with? I talked to some guy who seemed to know what he was talking about?

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BMWRUBMWRU - 1/25/2007 4:58:43 PM
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The answer is simple. No. People tend to have a mindset that old Mercs are the most reliable automobile. That was before Japannese cars entered the U.S. market. Compared to Jap brands, Mercs are only as good as a Ford Explorer- may be worse. Am I being biased toward Mercs? Yes. I used to own a 98 E430, a shop queen that was what I used to call her. In terms of reliability, Mercs today are no more reliable than Mercs decades ago. W210, for example, have a list of well-know and well-documented reliablity issues. Premature transmission failure (due to cheap materials used in the transmission), repeated window regulator failure, premature drive belt wear (gonna be scary if it was broken off traveling on a freeway), Air Mass Sensory failure, to name a few. These issues are not only from my personal experience but also common problems shared among many W210 owners. Mercs might have souls, history, lineage, or heritage whatever Merc fanatics call it. It's sad that after 100 hundred years of making cars, they haven't learned how to make a reliable transportation.

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BillBill - 1/25/2007 5:59:28 PM
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It's sad that after 100 hundred years of making cars, they haven't learned how to make a reliable transportation.


Yeah, yeah... *scratches head*



BillBill - 1/25/2007 6:03:43 PM
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One more thing, Mr. BMWRU,

If Mercedes have been so terrible over the last 100 years, why is it that when you name a luxury car, most people will instantly say Mercedes-Benz?

Why are they so desired globally? Why do they have a reputation for quality, durability and luxury? This wouldn't be possible if they had not built good cars. I think you just got owned.



And for your information, the W210 E-Class was a pretty reliable car overall. There were some reliability issues, but they were actually more mechanical than electrical. And my E420 W210 was pretty reliable. If it wasn't, you'd think I'd have gone back and bought another MB? I don't think so.

People like you need to shut up with your ignorant and frankly baseless comments.



answeranswer - 1/25/2007 7:06:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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When you ask people to name a celebrity, I'm sure Paris Hilton's name would come up quite often.

Name recognition does not equate to quality.



BillBill - 1/25/2007 11:59:39 PM
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I used the fact that people name Mercedes as a reference to the power, history and reputation of the brand. People outside of the US will never think of Lexus first when you ask them to name a luxury brand. I'm sure that even most Americans will refer to either a domestic luxury brand first (Caddy / Lincoln) and then perhaps a European.


bmw_meisterbmw_meister - 1/25/2007 5:19:07 PM
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We should all feel dumber for having read this.

My folks have a Lexus RX300 that had an alternator go bad after 3 years, a electronic key that died after a year, and heated seats that lit your butt cheeks aflame. Does this mean that Lexus's are crap? Hardly. But following this author's logic, it might.


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KeyserSozeKeyserSoze - 1/25/2007 5:24:21 PM
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My ML500 is a 2006 model (The latest ML)

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image5image5 - 1/25/2007 5:30:20 PM
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I have owned 7 Mercedes and 1 BMW ('74 2002), a few VWs and an Audi. I think "how long will it last?" is way different from "how reliable is it?". Mercedes were built very solid and had extremely robust components. They required a lot of expensive maintenance and had to be "sorted-out" from new, but were one of the few makes whose longevity would justify major engine or transmission work. A 300 wagon I sold with 250k is still on the road with about 350k.

The deterioration of MB quality was noted by many in the late '80s; long before Chrysler. Starting in the 90's is when I believe BMW got the edge, but mainly because they were more exciting, not better (though my sister has 300k on a 528, and my brother has 150k on a similar car/year). Today, I see more old MB on the road than BMW, but a lot of them are dogs. People buy cars they can't/won't keep up.

When it comes to Toyota and Honda, Japanese quality takes the cake. But I don't want one (except an NSX), any more than I eat white bread or vanilla ice cream. Different strokes for different folks.


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RupertRupert - 1/25/2007 6:25:35 PMView My AgentSpace
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mercedes must be the most durable, otherise all those merc estates from the 80s and 90s wouldn't keep on being stolen to go to poland and south american sugar plantations.
you don't see a pole in a bmw on a farm, do you?


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James443James443 - 1/25/2007 6:34:47 PM
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I drive a 1990 3 series with nearly 200k miles and while I have had some maintenance clearly over the years, never has this car failed me.

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Tarzan91303Tarzan91303 - 1/25/2007 11:13:57 PM
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The original point was that the C-class M/B would last longer than the 3-series BMW, and you guys are all over the place comparing apples to oranges. So, I decided to go to my 2007 Consumer Reports buying guide for objective clues and trends to see if a C does outlast a 3.

The bottom line is that the BMW is marginally better than the C, but the C is catching up and the 3 seems pretty consistent (per vehicle tracking data for the past 8 years).

-No C or 3 made the "good bets" or "bad bets" list.
-In the Cars To Avoid section the '04 3 made the list, but the C had the '02, '03, '05 (4-cyl) and the '01-'04 (V-6) on the list.
-The only cars of these two models that made the "reliable" list was the '98 M3, and the '02 (3 series AWD).

I don't know if this means that a M/B C will last 3 times longer than the BMW 3, but depending on the year you get the C, it could cost you 3 times more, all thing being equal.

Both are great cars. I live in Southern Cali, and in general I see a lot more older M/Bs driving around than older BMWs, so maybe in the long run they do last longer.


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Agent004Agent004 - 1/26/2007 12:03:02 AMView My AgentSpace
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993Turbo993Turbo - 1/26/2007 7:51:15 AM
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BMW inline 6 should last longer than the MB V6 not withstanding all the other things that could go wrong.


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vladyxavladyxa - 1/26/2007 9:16:48 AM
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This is another pointless and useless article that serves no purpose, other than to piss off people.

If an alcoholic drinks a bottle of cognac in half-an-hour. John Doe drinks one shot of vodka every weekend for half-a-year. Does it mean that vodka is better, just because it lasts longer?

Or, race fanatic buy one of the most reliable cars on the planet, drag race it, smash it, burn tires and transmission - in-and-out of repair shop every week, when other guy buys piece of shit yugoslavian Yugo, and changes oil every 3,000 miles, drives like miss Daisy. Whose car will last longer, you think?


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BillBill - 1/27/2007 4:31:44 PM
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Ding Ding!

Well said.



ctsangctsang - 1/26/2007 1:05:52 PM
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MB last forever since it keeps going to the repair shop.

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AlsuhaimiAlsuhaimi - 1/26/2007 1:07:56 PM
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I think this quite true about the BMW as a new 7 series I purchased in July 2005 proved. The transmission quit after only 91,000km and the dealer in Khobar, Saudi Arabia was kind enough (and embarrassed)to put it on "Goodwill" warrantee. The cost of a full transmission was close to $10,000 + another $3,000 for labor.
So, BMWs do not last long but drive very nicely. I guess nothing GOOD last for ever.


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xbeachbum2006xbeachbum2006 - 1/26/2007 5:24:04 PM
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My 1983 300 CDT has been in my family for three generations(grandma, dad, me) and has over 260,000 miles on it and the BMW my grandparents had crapped out six years after they bought it. SO I vote MB.

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xbeachbum2006xbeachbum2006 - 1/26/2007 5:24:15 PM
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My 1983 300 CDT has been in my family for three generations(grandma, dad, me) and has over 260,000 miles on it and the BMW my grandparents had crapped out six years after they bought it. SO I vote MB.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/27/2007 2:27:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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Alsuhaimi, can you say "Rolex"?

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MartitoMartito - 1/29/2007 3:37:47 PM
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... the real way to answer this is to find out total sales for he past 10 years, then see how many of these are still on the road. Let the bigger percentage RULE!

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