45 Votes

EXCLUSIVE: The Competition IS Breathing Down The BMW 335's Neck. But BMW Has A Secret.

Agent001 submitted on 10/31/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 3:24:27 AM

66 user comments | Category: Spy News | Source: www.autospies.com

Tag Links: 2010 BMW 3-Series, 350i

It's been a very weird month here at AutoSpies.

com because of the economic meltdown but there is always a silver lining to every cloud.

I may sound like a winer here but the extensive world travel schedule I've been on has really burned me out.

So one silver lining, is the fact that I've actually had a week to nest here at AS mission control in San Diego.

And that is a wonderful feeling.

The other silver lining is that we have bagged a couple of huge scoops, like the full brochure leak of the next Lexus RX.

Ok, 001, that's only ONE scoop.

What is the other?

I am SO glad you've asked!

I just logged off my Skype account after a really informative conversation with a friend from Munich, who gave me some PRIMO scoopage (is that even a word?).

You've been reading a lot about BMW's competitor's inching closer to the performance of their new twin-turbo 6.

Companies like Audi/Infiniti/MB are just about ready to launch a whole new line of supercharged motors or engines with some added black magic, that will finally catch up to the performance of the 335.

Or so they think.

The Munich Munchkin tells me otherwise.

He tells me that right AFTER these companies...hmmm, how do I say the PC version of this????

I'll try...

Right AFTER they deliver the LOAD ;) , BMW will reveal their little secret.

How did I do?

PC enough? 'Deliver the load'? LOLOL!!!

Give me some creative license here readers!

It's midnight here in paradise and I'm enjoy a killer chardonnay, as I wind down, so WORK with me.

So WHAT's the SECRET?

For the love of GOD 001, END the suspense!!!!!

Ok.

Right AFTER they shoot their guns, the roundel will take the 335 Twin-Turbo up a notch and BUST a move!

Like it's not already the most bitchin' 6 ever!

It's going to get better kids.

The Munchkin says the 350i is testing in the garage and will come out of the gate with between 320 and 350HP AND be MORE fuel efficient than the 335!!!!!

It will hit as early as 2010 or as late as 2011, we're told.

As if they didn't have their competition sweating enough!

CAN'T WAIT!!!!!

2008 SEMA Auto Show Photo Gallery

EXCLUSIVE: The Competition IS Breathing Down The BMW 335's Neck. But BMW Has A Secret.

About the Author

FWD Torque Steer. Absolute proof the Devil exists.
— Agent001 (View Profile)

User Comments

What a stupid article ! is this even a story ?

In 2 years time, Audi/Infinity/MB will have their own new models .. and so, another round of who's £$%^ is longer or biggest !!

The fact is, it's what you have now and how it compares to the competetion
— mpls (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 3:47:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 27

lol the S4 just came out in 2years Audi will have a new model????, are you serious its not even in production yet, and what is clear about it is that itstill has no steering feel, and ultimately doesnt handle as well as the 335i, and most tests are getting 5.1, the 335i or 135i for that matter ranges 4.7-5.0 with less power and more than just straight line performance,andreal steering feel......
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 4:01:00 AM | | Votes: -5

what on earth does the 3 series have to do with the gt-r?
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 9:56:34 AM | | Votes: 5

"most tests are getting 5.1, the 335i or 135i for that matter ranges 4.7-5.0 with less power"

Oh please.....the 335 was putting out more hp than the 2009 S4, back in 2007. We all know BMW's hp numbers are crap.
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 10:35:23 AM | | Votes: 2

What a lot of hoopla over not much.
— 204E60 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 10:36:29 AM | | Votes: 3

The new S4 has only been in some first drives by magazines, nowhere have there been any real tests. The 5.1 number you're talking about is the official 0-62 time claimed by Audi. Same way as the official 0-62 time of the 335i is 5.6 seconds.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 12:32:54 PM | | Votes: 1

And, conveniently enough, Audi usually understates its 0-60 times by the same margin as BMW... half a second. The S4 will easily clear the five second mark, every time.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 10:47:59 PM | | Votes: 1

If a 5.0L NA produces only 350hp, it'll be very disappointing product, which I don't think will ever happen. A VQ37 already can produce that number of HP by very subtle tuning, so what's the point?

I believe it'll be the same 3.0 TT engine tuned to produce 350 HP & lb/ft, which can be easily achieved, considering GT-R's 3.8 TT producing 500HP.
— dlin (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 3:48:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Or probably 395hp and 375lb/ft. BMW is always very careful about slotting product positioning 'correctly'.
— dlin (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 3:53:24 AM | | Votes: 0

It won't be a 5.0. The 335 isn't a 3.5 now is it? It's a 3 liter TT.

It will be the same N54 engine with a mild tune. See my blabbering further down.

— lewishamiltonpimp (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 5:59:43 AM | | Votes: 4

Well, if 350 is what they actually will call it, there are 2 options that are currently running in BMW's current models. You have the 4.8L V8 in the 550, but this engine is a few years old so it most likely won't be this one. There's also the twin turbo 4.4L V8 in the X6 pumping n 400 hp. I imagine that they'll detune it so that it produces less than 450 lbft of torque but they'll let it rev higher so that the hp number stays 350+. They can't really make it much more powerful than that without taking away from M3 sales...but didn't we say that about the 335? Personally, I'd rather have them work on their I6 some more to make it more powerful/efficient.
— budfrogS4 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 9:48:56 AM | | Votes: 1

where are you getting 5.0 liter from? the 335i is a 3.0 liter inline twin-turbo six. the 350i will likely be a slightly larger version of that engine.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 1:45:46 PM | | Votes: 1

But why will it be called 350i? A continuation of the 335i, or even a 340i, sounds better to me. This article screams BS.

If they made a 335i and a 350i simultaneously, who would buy an M3? Don't give me an "Ms are special" speech because that doesn't really apply here. The 335i has tested enthusiasts' faith in the M3 already.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 10:50:12 PM | | Votes: 0

maybe 338i
— 911gt2 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2008 3:43:34 PM | | Votes: 1

I don't think it will be a 5.0L, maybe a bi-turbo 4.4.

Either way, I think this is a load of crap.
They wouldn't have spend years engineering that engine, to replace it after 3 years.

If anything, they'll tweak it for 5-10 more hp in a year or two, or bore it out a tad.

I don't think they will do a 5.0L overhall or anything crazy, at least no one the 3-Series.
— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 3:52:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

BMW 3 series already had two facelifts, First the introduction of 3.0TT I6 and then the recent 2009 facelift. So i think most probably that would be it for the current generation 3 series and any new powertrain will be introduced in the all new one.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 5:07:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

incorrect.

2009 is the only facelift of the 3-series.

the addition of the twin turbo in 2007 was simply an engine upgrade for the top of the 3-series line-up.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 1:48:27 PM | | Votes: 4

incorrect.

2009 is the only facelift of the 3-series.

the addition of the twin turbo in 2007 was simply an engine upgrade for the top of the 3-series line-up.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 1:48:35 PM | | Votes: 2

It wasn't a facelift, but 2007 was a refresh. Refreshes can be mechanical. The 3 saw two new engines, not just one, which is really significant.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 10:51:39 PM | | Votes: 1

Ok. The N54 already has between 310-320HP. This has been proven literally hundreds of times by owners at E90Post (including me) doing dynos and getting 270-285 rear wheel HP stock.

For about $300, one can simply plug in a device that delivers anothr 40HP using 91 octane - I have one. It rocks and I have a high 12 second car. Other folks with 335s have over 370RWHP with nothing more than a piggyback tune and maybe a set of downpipes.

So the fact that this story is a story is beyond me. The N54 has tons of headroom for tuning whether it be by Vishnu, Dinan, Juicebox or BMW. Of course BMW going to open it up a bit over the next few years.

The bigger story here should be what will happen to the M3's power output as the bread and butter 3 series gets more whoomph? The N54's power output is under-rated so as not to syphon off potential M3 buyers. When it is kicking out 350HP stock and BMW says it is kicking out 350HP stock, the M3 better have 450 or more.
— lewishamiltonpimp (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 5:51:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

lewis, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a Stage I Dinan kit cost over $1500 not including installation? So you achieved almost the same HP tweak for $300 and installed it yourself?

Is this covered under warranty btw?
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 10:30:07 AM | | Votes: 2

Did you bother to get an aftermarket LSD?
— AE86 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 12:13:05 PM | | Votes: 1

Forseen: the new MB 3.5 V6 will have 306HP without turbos or compresors (imagine with turbo or compresor). Sorry, BMW engine will have more than 350HP, if that does not happen, any other manufacturer will catche them very easy.
— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 6:31:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

When is MB bringing its stronger 3.5 V6 to the U.S.?
— 204E60 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/1/2008 6:49:27 PM | | Votes: 1

I think the first car to have the new 3.5 will be the new E-Class, but it could also be next year's C and SLK models.

But why should that be impressive? Lexus has made 306hp out of a 3.5 since 2005. Infiniti makes 330hp out of a 3.7. I think BMW and Audi's way of doing this is more efficient--with the use of turbochargers and superchargers, they give you the same power but better mileage. It truly is a replacement for displacement. Have you seen the G37's MPG numbers? Shockingly bad.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 10:54:11 PM | | Votes: 1

Beside that BMW is always realy good in samall engines (if not the best), I know any jappanese company will do a powerfull small engine, but endurance and fuel economy will not be a match for the bimmer. The competitor will come from europe.
— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 6:36:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I'll switch to Cabernet tonight ;)

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 2:44:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Yep, it'll be called the Kendall-Jackson edition...
— aussie2u (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2008 7:50:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

i'm gonna play the role of S4 and point out the punctuation flaw in your title, oo1. you need to replace the period before "but", after "neck" with a comma btw
— KZ258 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 7:29:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

LOL, you are obsessed with me. I didn't even notice that.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 10:55:11 PM | | Votes: 2

Did this news really deserve the hoopla you created! The new Audi S4 has 329hp today, not in 2010. An do you think it can be tuned to deliver more? "You betcha!" as a famous VP candidate would say.
— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 7:32:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

no offense to 001, but I get the feeling that the glass of wine he was talking about was not his first glass of the night...
— holmstar (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 8:24:50 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Yea I think he is just a lil tipsy...
— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 8:48:51 AM | | Votes: 2

001, another great scoop! Just in the future, please refrain from using "LOL" -- let's keep that internet jargon for the girls in 7th grade.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 8:52:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

OMG LOL BRB TTYL ROFL!!!
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 10:01:59 AM | | Votes: 3

:-)
— Brembo (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 2:26:40 PM | | Votes: 0

BFF ;)

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 2:45:42 PM | | Votes: 3

Wow. Umm... Ok.

You really like BMW don't you?
— PlanB (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 9:40:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

As always the competition is behind BMW.

It seems like the current TT six has been around forever, and others are just NOW catching up.

350hp for a standard mass-produced six is amazing.

That's more power than the E46 M3 (and loads more torque too). And almost as much as some manufacturer's V8.

Good stuff. Can't wait.
— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 10:24:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Audi already had 340hp back in 2001. And it wasn't even their top model because the RS4 back then already had 380hp.
Seems to me like BMW was just catching up.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 12:30:43 PM | | Votes: 2

Please read carefully.

I’m not talking about special edition engines on an S-line, RS-line or M brand.

This is your built-for-the-masses engine.

I see the most power you can get from a six cylinder A4 is still 265 hp. Alrighty then.
— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 1:45:00 PM | | Votes: 2

Please do some research.

How is the S4 any more special edition than the 335i? The 335i has an engine specificly desgined for the 335i to compete with the S4. Just that BMW decides to make it cheaper is something else.
Audi has been playing in this ballpark since the S2 back in 1990, under the M-series and above all other 3-series. BMW just cought up with the 335i.

And don't say anything about the 3.2 A4, because that one is designed to compete in the level of the C350 and the 330i. Just because BMW doesn't sell the 330i in the US doesn't mean Audi suddenly competes directly against the 335i with the 3.2
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 2:19:18 PM | | Votes: 1

Why compare a V8 with a six!?

"BMW just caught up to Audi with the TT-Six."

The BMW powerplant that’s won the International Engine Of The Year Awards the last 2 years.

Oh wow. That’s like saying Sarah Palin is smarter than Hillary Clinton.

If an S4 were an ordinary Audi why call it differently from an A4, why offer it in a V8, and most importantly why is it priced closer to an M3?

Why is Audi marketing their so called S-line to be a more exclusive version of the standard models?

I used to drive an E46 M3 and pretty much every comparo I’ve read put the S4 directly against the M3.

Just things that make you go...hmmmm.
— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 4:25:34 PM | | Votes: 2

Why compare a modest n/a V6 with a twin-turbo six? Should you compare a 335i to a Porsce 911 Turbo? because they're both TT-six'es...

It's not Audi's fault the S4 was compared to the M3, when Audi released the 380hp RS4 in 1999, it was only reasonable that the new S4 had more a decent bit more power then the old one.

Audi's 2.0 TFSI has had multiple engine of the year awards as well, so what?
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 6:01:22 PM | | Votes: 1

LoL
— E92_M_Power (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 2:28:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Interesting, 001 has been strangely silent to all our replies. Maybe it was too much Chardonnay...but.....
It is possible BMW could be looking to slip in a detuned TTV8 for the E90's last 2 years of production but pretty unlikely considering the model is to be replaced in 2012. As for a 350-370HP 3er rivaling the M3, Munich has already stated that they will increase the M3's V8 HP over time rather than produce a CSL...
— BondMI6 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 1:36:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Just reporting what the Munich Munchkin told me...Spies give me tips, we publish them.

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 2:47:10 PM | | Votes: 2

And Munchkin has been REALLY reliable in the past

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 3:44:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The M3 has a 4 liter V8 producing 420hp and an M5 V10 producing 500hp. Do you honestly think BMW will put the X6 TT V8 4.4 liter putting it close to M3 #'s in terms of HP and smashing it in terms of TQ?

It would cannibalize their the M division.

Lets think like a business people.

The most a "stock" model 3 series will have on paper is 350hp and it would probably be the same N54 with an upped psi.
— kablaam (View Profile)

Posted on 10/31/2008 5:16:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Ummmmm...has no one else realised there already is a 3.0 TT BMW engine with more hp (around 330hp)? In the new 740i...surely BMW, if they need to, will just bump up the hp in the 335i to make a 340i?
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 11/1/2008 11:18:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

No one knows the true rating of the N54, so lets take BMW's word for it. It's either a very efficient driveline or an under reported engine.

I haven't seen any crank level Dyno's on the web, till then there are way too many variables to call BMW's engine underrated. Whatever the case, the N54 is an awesome engine that has YET to be matched.

Can't wait to see the 4.4L TT in the 5 series!!!
— kablaam (View Profile)

Posted on 11/1/2008 5:53:11 PM | | Votes: 1

I believe the N54 actually has 306hp. It's just that it's power curve is impressive which makes it so fast. It has nearly all it's 306hp available between 5800 and 7000rpm. That flat power curve makes it perform so good.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 8:39:24 AM | | Votes: 2

Can we have less of the sloppy, drunk reporting please?
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 11/1/2008 11:20:25 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I'm really thinking it will be the next-gen 3er...This could very well be the 350i and the first test mules should be out in about 2 years-right along Munich Munchkin's timeframe....
— BondMI6 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2008 7:07:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

As I read this article, than read the comments and than from my own experience...335i is what all cars wanna be compared to, like it or not!

350i is gonna be biggest hurdle for any competitor!...
Regardles of its specs, horse power and etc, BMW still is looking down on competition.

G
— RefuG (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2008 1:46:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

This article sucks...and the 335 will not jump to 350 because they are use to increments of 5....I.E. 325,330,335 and so on.
— shiftless (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2008 6:50:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Like the Schick/ Gilette rivalry, 2 blades, then 3, then 4 and 5. So with the 3 series, just get up to 395 already and be done with it!
— humperdeath (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2008 7:57:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Hey shiftless if BMW uses increments of five why do they offer a 328i, 528i, and a 128i? Also if you install a piggyback control module on a 335i, your warranty is VOID. I hardly ever go to this site anymore because some of the members (not agents) really have no clue as to what is spewing out of thier mouths. The amount of misinformation is amazing!! Have a great day, I'm out.
— huntr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2008 8:26:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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EXCLUSIVE: The Competition IS Breathing Down The BMW 335's Neck. But BMW Has A Secret.

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