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F10 M5 / F12 M6 - Drivetrain Analysis
Assumptions

* Given the emissions and fuel economy rules, BMW will not be pursuing an outright power strategy. We shouldn't expect beasts like the Audi RS6 that try to compensate for weight by adding power. We should expect the same power output from the engines or a slight power bump (i.e. 5-10%)
* One of the areas that BMW M will focus on will be weight. Weight the universal evil....it affects acceleration, handling, economy etc.... I would expect the F10 / F12 to weigh less than today's E60 / E63
* BMW M and Formula 1 will be tied at the hips for the foreseeable future. For BMW to capitalize their investment in F1, the M cars will use as much of the technology of the F1 cars as possible. It appears F1 will NOT likely adopt turbo charging but will adopt Kinetic Energy Recovery systems as early as 2009. These KER technologies would be phased in from 2009 to 2013

T-Bone's prediction of the F10 M5 and F12 M6:


Weight:

* M5 - 3800 pounds / M6 - 3500 pounds

Power:

* 550 hp from a normally aspirated V10 (call it Mark II) with more "Efficient Dynamics" technologies from engines like the N54 and N64 (minus the turbos).... direct injection, electric water pumps and new ones like cylinder shut down

Transmission:

* I think the big areas of innovation for BMW M will be materials (to control weight) and the transmission. If you read the article below....F1 will be introducing KER technologies that will seek to recover kinetic and perhaps heat energy from braking. This hybrid type of system is much different than the hybrids we see today that convert kinetic energy to electricity and then store it in a heavy battery only to convert back to kinetic energy later.
* The KER systems have to be much more efficient. They would need to be in the 80-90% efficiency range. While F1 is quite open as to how it will allow manufacturers to implement these technologies, it would make sense for BMW to integrate KER technologies into the transmission / flywheel. There are KER technologies that can be implemented at the wheels....but this would increase overall weight and more importantly, unsprung weight.
* So I predict a MDCT type of transmissions with KER technologies that will add kinetic energy into the system during acceleration to bump effective power from 550 hp to over 600 hp. Also I would expect KER technologies to allow cylinder shutdown to be more effective to vastly improve fuel economy in city environments.
* It is rumored the F1 cars will have a "boost" button to increase torque on track out....but for roadcars, BMW would automate that...probably using the throttle position modulate the torque delivery
* So the new MDCT transmission we see in the M3s is already obsolscent.

If BMW puts together such a package, we should expect to see a car that outhandles and out-acceleraters today's M5 / M6 with a 25% improvement in fuel economy. Read Article
F10 M5 / F12 M6 - Drivetrain Analysis



Comments:

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911gt2911gt2 - 10/7/2008 11:17:59 AM
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I hope this is the path they take...that would awesome!

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2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 10/7/2008 11:23:26 AM
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I am sure this will trickle down to other vehicles as well. I do like the fact i average 24 MPG's in my 335i sedan and i dont drive slow. it would be nice to see a 4 cylinder turbo diesel in a 1 series hatch here is the us, but only time will tell.

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jasaerojasaero - 10/7/2008 11:52:43 AM
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Think there is a good bit of dreaming going on here. My guess is that the next M5 will be lighter and maybe slightly more powerful, but I'm not sure a KER's derived system will help much on the EPA cycle for US regs. Maybe for the Euro economy cycle, but do they even have MPG specific rules? I could see KER's eventually entering production vehicles as a cool power adder eventually, but not in the F10 sorta generation of cars as that is too soon for F1 to prove the tech first.

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mclaren428mclaren428 - 10/7/2008 12:04:33 PM
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I think this is possible, the new 7 series mid-hybrid has an electric motor integrated into the transmission.

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TheSailorTheSailor - 10/7/2008 12:08:01 PMView My AgentSpace
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What the?!? This is just some guy who think he "knows stuff" expressing his view of what he think it will be like... And it is half a year old... And it is just silly... Unless you are an engineer with BMW's M-division, you won't have any chance of knowing anything about it!

And PLEASE PEOPLE! The M5-engine doesn't have anything to do with F1-technology just because it is a V10... It is a very nice piece of engineering, but it's not an F1 engine...
It is a marketing gimmick! And if it did, wouldn't the new one have a V8 with less power?!

And if they were in fact looking for better fuel economy, not using turbos would make no sense as they are in fact the most potent efficiency booster for a gasoline engine. I do agree with the writer about the not using turbos as it has always been the trademark of M-cars...

Anyway, all I'm saying is that I find it silly that people are already trying to guess what we'll find under the bonnet of the next M5 as the regular 5-series haven't even been unveiled and won't be for quite a bit of time... And then there is the usual delay between normal and M-versions of BMWs!

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car750icar750i - 10/7/2008 3:16:48 PM
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Well yeah the first word in the article is Assumptions. They appear to be educated assumptions though, lets hope they are true b/c that would be a truly amazing car.


TheSailorTheSailor - 10/7/2008 4:28:39 PMView My AgentSpace
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Well... So would a 6.0 liter V12 version of the S85 engine which would be at least as likely as an even higher tuned S85! And it would bring it close to 600 hp without turbos. And it would be completely in line with the M-division philosophy!


SpeedoholicSpeedoholic - 10/7/2008 1:44:49 PMView My AgentSpace
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BMW Power ... magical! Favorite Brand, favorite team.
I just love it!

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1995e341995e34 - 10/7/2008 4:02:57 PM
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what would the next m5 be like if they had been taking this approach for a couple decades? if we had seen 3 or 4 generations of lightweight development. i guess we'll know in 20 years...

in the mean time, it's great to see the focus shift to weight reduction. it will be even better when we see a carbon-roofed non-M model. that will be progress.



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CorsisCorsis - 10/7/2008 4:24:12 PM
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WOW. Who knew that making cars lighter and smaller was a good idea for maximizing performance!

Good job BMW, took you long enough.

That KERs stuff is not going to happen, maybe next generation or something. But its a cool idea.

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TheSailorTheSailor - 10/7/2008 4:33:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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"That KERs stuff is not going to happen, maybe next generation or something. But its a cool idea"

I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong as they have already started implementing this into present models as part of the efficient dynamics. It is similar to Toyotas regenerative braking, but instead of powering an extra electric motor (with doubtful results) it is used to power the electric systems. Whether it will make it to the next M5, I don't know, but it will definitely make it to the F10 5-series.

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cs4444cs4444 - 10/13/2008 10:59:08 AMView My AgentSpace
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