Forbes does a comparison of luxury brand demographics

Please anyone interested in this topic read the whole article, which doesnt just have Lexus last and then leave it at that. There are actually many luxury makes below Lexus, and among luxury truck makes, even MBZ and Land Rover place below Lexus.

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 12:28:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

It seems to me the results of this survey are very much in line with what one would expect to see. Among cars, Porsche and MB both of which command a significant price over the other especially in higher end models are near at the top. Followed by Audi, Jag, BMW, Lexus which makes sense becuase on average the prices decrease in that order, with the possible excpetion of BMW which may be skewed to lower income due to popularity of the 3-series among lower income buyers.

For Trucks, the trend is much less clear. Porsche is at the top with its Cayenne which makes sense since that is an expensive car on average. But Volvo fits in next, not becuase of price but likely becuase the conservative buyers of SUV's at income level may be using them for family needs and are thus concerned with safety more than other issues. Similarly Lexus is higher than expected likely becuase of its wide array of high end SUVs LX/GX/RX combine to be cover quite a large span of luxo SUV market. Benz is near the bottom in this case because all it has in this segment is the ML which is not really a high end SUV. More of an entry level midsize SUV, (and not a very good one at that). The GL is very new, and the G is so low volume it would barely be a blip. The surprise in this case is probably Land Rover which I would have expected to place higher, although when Range Rover sales are combined with Discovery and Freelander sales that would drop the average significantly. It is also possible that there are significant numbers of "urban" buyers of Range Rovers and Escalades who don't always have the income to back up their purchases...

that said I expect ForbesAuto is not that popular among the urban crowd so who knows! The Truck list is quite random in that sense. Almost as if price is not as much of a factor, people just buy what they want.

— AutoEng (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 12:51:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I agree with you AutoEng, the Truck list is all over the place with average income not being even remotely close to what public brand perception is:


Trucks
Porsche $199,733
Hummer $150,026
BMW $166,812
Land Rover $154,765
MercedesBenz $149,101
Volvo $170,101
Lexus $160,819
Lincoln $146,173
Cadillac $159,215
Acura $161,062
Average: $161,781

Porsche followed by Volvo is not what one would expect.

Well I guess Audi owners are able to afford BMWs after all. If we were to place Audi on the SUV chart currently, they would probably be among the top brands because the Q7 is higher priced than most competitors including the 4.2 version which starts at near $60K and also because the Q5 is not out yet.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 1:47:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

But since when is $41,000 not luxury car territory?

What do you suppose the average price of a Lexus ES is?

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2007 12:48:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

nicad:

and despite 3-series being a huge part of BMW sales, the BMW brand still has a higher average income than lexus.

and FYI...IS, ES and RX (all entry level like the 3-series) total 75% of lexus sales.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2007 2:16:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

well it makes sense that Lexus would be below the others. Their cars are, on average, less costly than their German counterparts, so they would attract a buyer with less affluency. Not really a bad thing, actually.

— senorgato (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 5:20:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Poor argument there amazinBbimmer. By your same assumption you could segment the other carmakes and somehow (incorrectly) say that the entry level car buyers should not be averaged with the total brand segment. This seems like a desperate measure to bring up the median income for the BMW brand.

Clearly, most brands listed in this article have the same entry level "handicaps". BMW is not different just because they depend heavily on sales of the 3-series. For all brands it makes economic sense that their "cheapest" models would have more demand.

— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 11/7/2007 11:42:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

You don't have to deaverage the data by class type fool. All class-types are included.

You just can't accept the facts.

Because the BMW 3-series is BMW's best selling car by a wide margin, you have less affluent people buying them and therefore it brings the average down.

Don't blame me for the average BMW household income being less than Audi's.

Looks like BMW owners are the poor ones now.

Show me that bimodal distribution of yours...otherwise I can't accept your statement.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 9:22:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

BMW is not all top-end cars unfortunately for you amazinBimmer.

BMW doesn't have competitors to the Mercedes SL, S and CL 600 models, not to mention the 65 AMG's that cost over $195K a pop.

Audi is the number three brand in terms of household income behind only Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.

Man it must SUCK to be down there with Lexus and Jaguar.....have fun hanging out with the psuedo luxury brand from Japan and the British loser that saw its sales hit rock bottom under Ford ownership.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 9:24:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Of course amazinBimmer needs a "bimodal distribution" to break down the data by class because sadly, BMW's best selling car by far is the 3-series.You don't have CEOs and Presidents of companies driving 3-series. Instead you have secretaries, administrative assistants and other low income people.

Accept the facts, BMW owners are not that wealthy as you believe and Audi owners are on average wealthier.

Who cares if you break it down by class anyway. BMW might be higher at the high end, but on the low end, because they sell so many cars that are affordable to low income people, their average is dragged down.

No wonder, BMW owners are low income themselves.

Maybe your the one who couldn't get that executive level job, I'm sure your an entry level engineer making a lowly $100K. How does it feel to have busted your balls for that engineering degree in undergrad?

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 9:33:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

My question to you Germannut is that if the Audi average income is so high why don't they buy A8's they only sell 200 to 300 per month. A6 is not so hot either, I don't know the average income BMW owner but I see alot more high end BMW and Mercedes than Audi. Audi suxs barely better than Saab, Audi will never be the icon BMW has become just look on local highways.

— Larry (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 11:14:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

The foreseeable has come to fruition- this thread has degenerated into little more than insecure posturing and ad hominem.

Under what bastardized rules of conduct or place is this type of behavior appropriate? I have a suggestion, and it would be the gutter.

I am thoroughly unimpressed.

— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 11:15:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Also provide a link to the Article please, or do i have research the Truth on Google

— Larry (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2007 11:17:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Larry, if you bothered to click on the link you would get to the article. (moron).

You have to scroll down to see the lists of cars and trucks respectively.

Larry, Audi will become the icon that BMW is. Give the company another 20 years.

The reason why you don't think Audi is the global icon BMW is, is because you live in the United States.

You very well know Audi's weakest market is the United States. What would be the case if you lived in China, Larry? You would see Audis left and right and more often than BMW.

Well you don't see that many low-end Audis as you do with BMWS and their dime a dozen 3-series.

Don't blame me for BMW having locked up the secretaries, administrative assistants and hairstylists who barely crack 6 figues if their lucky and get attracted to the ultimate driving machine better than anyone else.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2007 12:25:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Sure, Audi may have lower sales than BMW in the high-end range of say $75K +.

Audi has a much larger percentage of its sales in the middle of the road bracket of lets say $50K-74K than does BMW.

Audi has much fewer of its sales in the sub $50K bracket than does BMW that sells probably 1 gazillion 3-series, of which 99% cost less than $50K

Sure BMW may have more buyers in high-end vehicles but they also have by far the most buyers in low-end vehicles....hence ths shitty average income rating for BMW owners.

If BMW wanted the cred of Porsche they should attract a large percentage of their buyers to the 7-series and 6-series price bracket instead of the 3-series price bracket.

Of course, their sales then would be much lower....but hey you win some and you lose some.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2007 12:28:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Here in the U.K, all 3 brands are popular from Germany. But i must say, in recent years 4/5 the amount of Audis on the road has increased hugely. They are being recognised as a premium brand almost on par with MB and BMW. However, it does tend to be the A3 and A4 that is seen in both wagon and saloon form. But of course, cars over here appear to be much more expensive than most countries.

— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 11/5/2007 5:08:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

"Audi is the most popular premium brand in the UK, in case you guys didn't know."

I live in the U.K, yes i know. However, it is the entry models such as the A3 and 4 that are selling well. The E class and 5 Series, as with the 7 and the S outsell the higher models in the Audi range.

— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2007 8:47:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

It is funny to read luxury car definition as a car over $30K MSRP... In Europe you get a better equipped Ford Focus diesel for this amount, hardly (near) luxury class. In Asia there are no imports brands AT ALL at this price level (sans the Smart micro-car).

If Europe luxury class starts around 55K euro or about 80 grand US$ and Asia starts at about $90K, the true US luxury segment should really be considered upwards of ~$48K (all prices retail). I do not know about recent Canadian pricing for luxury cars, but considering the high flying Canadian dollar, I would bet minimum 65K US$ for the luxury threshold there.

This would obviously eliminate 95% Acura, 80% Lexus and 75% Infiniti sales, but the owners of the remaining vehicles would be on par with the Mercedes Benz owner group. More rich folks tend to buy more expensive cars.

Sorry Forbes but your statistics as-is make no sense at all.

— JWalkerLegrande (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2007 10:39:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I only have one beef with this article, and it involves the criteria on page 4.

No car under $30K unless it's perceived as a near-luxury nameplate.
No household making less than $100k.

Would the German average be inflated since Audi, MB and BMW all have sub $30K cars which I doubt many $100K plus people would be looking at? I think the average would drop substantially if you include the incomes of all those A3, BMW323i and B-class buyers.

Even Acura's TSX is priced higher than the above 3.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/7/2007 12:16:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Thanks for defining a typical BMW buyer.

— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 11/7/2007 12:50:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

amazinBimmer, I won't bet you $500, because you would go broke. It's all you have. I would just feel terrible doing that to someone.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/7/2007 11:39:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

amazinBimmer, you loser, give me your 500 bucks. There is no way you make five times what I make. I personally made $5,000,000 last year. Yes, that is 6 zeroes after the 5.

You are a nice example of the poor BMW owner unlike us wealthier Audi owners.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/7/2007 11:26:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I'm not famous, I'm just extremely hard working and I have for all practical purposes, monopolized my industry. I take out my competitors and understand how to find excellent deals.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/8/2007 4:30:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

My impression of the relative buyer differences (from looking at who's driving what on the roads for 3 decades) is:
Lexus buyers are often ones who have to share the car with their wife, who doesn't like the "rough ride" of the German performance marks.
I think most guys would buy the German car is their wife would let them. But there are many exceptions.
And how many households do you know where the guy drives a German car, and his wife drives a Japanese car, or the other way around.
One neighbour drives an S550 while his wife drives a 350Z.
Another drives an FX45 while his wife drives the Touareg.
And almost EVERY Porsche Cayenne that I've seen in the Vancouver area is being driven by an attractive blond woman yaking on a cell phone. What's with that?

— DieselRules (View Profile)

Posted on 11/9/2007 12:51:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1