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GM Hybrid Sales Stuck In Neutral Because Of Bad Batteries

Agent009 submitted on 06/02/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:43 PM
from: www.autoweek.com

[41] user comments | category: Misc News

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GM Hybrid Sales Stuck In Neutral Because Of Bad Batteries

With gasoline at $4 a gallon and the Toyota Prius flying out dealership doors, General Motors' mild hybrid vehicles are stuck in neutral because of battery-pack failures.

GM had to use 9,000 battery packs to replace leaking ones it recalled, a company spokesman says. GM diverted those batteries from new hybrids for sale this year.

GM planned to sell about 27,000 mild hybrid vehicles this year, possibly more given the sharp rise in gasoline prices. But insiders say GM will fall far short of that goal because of problems with its Michigan-based battery maker, Cobasys, a joint venture of Chevron Technology Ventures and Energy Conversion Devices.

GM discovered an internal leak in the nickel-metal hydride batteries that Cobasys made for GM's 2007 model hybrids. The leak caused the hybrid powertrain to shut down. The vehicles could still be driven, but not with the hybrid system. Read Article

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AMiodynski - 6/2/2008 1:02:17 PM

-3 Boost

G M = General Malfunction !!!

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0to60 - 6/2/2008 2:07:25 PM

-2 Boost

This is why the American car companies have failed. Is there no thorough testing of these products prior to their release

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_43LE - 6/2/2008 2:33:13 PM

-1 Boost

Another reason for Toyota being cautious on the release of lithium ion batteries.

kpaxx - 6/2/2008 2:36:22 PM

+4 Boost

Toyota has had to replace many a battery in the prius and their other hybrids. just google it.

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800over - 6/2/2008 3:03:25 PM

+1 Boost

I'm sure they have....but not at a rate of 30%+...(assuming 9000 out of less than this years estimate of 27000)

bestofallcad - 6/4/2008 1:46:42 PM

+1 Boost

Do you know how much those Toyota battiers are in the Hybrid????? well they are about 3,600.00 not a cheep battery. Also do you know how long they last???? Well every three years!!!!!

That battery that is in the Toyota hybrid that costs 3,600.00 sure would buy alot of Gas!!!!

Also does Toyota warrenty the batteries????? the answer is NO! NO! and NO!!!!

ricer - 6/2/2008 3:12:51 PM

0 Boost

I knew these GM hybrids were pieces of crap.

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SteveL - 6/2/2008 3:13:42 PM

+2 Boost

GM had done lots of testing to these batteries but unfortunately the most rigorous and demanding testing was supposed to be done by the battery manufacture and they said that the batteries passed all the tests. It sucks for GM because they trust these people to bring them a quality product and they have fallen short. I am sure the battery manufacture will be the ones that end up paying for most of the replacements but I doubt they are going to pay for the loss of product and trust. Fact is that a lot of the hybrids out there have had issues with there batteries. I will be glad when all these nickel batteries go away and there is nothing to leak and to way hundreds of pounds.

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t_bone - 6/2/2008 3:20:03 PM

+1 Boost

I actually feel bad for GM. They shift to a brand-new product space and even so, history repeats itself.

In 10 years, when most new cars are running on electric motors with a 300,000 mile service life, they'll be having issues with those too! Bad windings, magnets shaking loose, motor controller fires, etc. :)

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Bored - 6/2/2008 5:31:30 PM

+1 Boost

@ t_bone,

For the sake of humor, I would also not wish an early '80's Audi-like "sudden acceleration" dilemma for GM as well.

(just a joke people)

dodgedart - 6/2/2008 3:42:00 PM

0 Boost

What is less hybrid than "mild hybrid?" The marketing guys will still make the batteryless hybrids sound enticing. Sounds like everyone should get a rebate or something.

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neutral - 6/2/2008 3:43:58 PM

+5 Boost

Wow, sad to see how many people jump on the Bash-GM bandwagon.

This is what happens when people want future technology right now. GM didn't rush anything, they didn't just throw some junk out there without rigorous testing. Hybrid technology is still relatively new to most manufacturers, quirks like this are going to happen.

I can't wait to see the improved mild hybrids and the 2-mode Vue.

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91z4me - 6/2/2008 4:35:04 PM

+3 Boost

Glad to see I am not the only one to notice that.

Bored - 6/2/2008 5:43:09 PM

+1 Boost

@ neutral,

Well said.
It all comes down to the actual battery manufacturer (possibly some unknown company in Taiwan, China, Philippines, and/or Mexico or a different Central American country, etc.) that Chevron and Cobasys contracted to mass produce the batteries for them (since we all know it would be too expensive to mass produce in the U.S.).
Cutting corners with ISO regulations, inferior base materials, lax QC -- who knows?

When you think about it, it could have easily have happened to Toyota or another car manufacturer.

85bmw745i - 6/2/2008 7:42:09 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You are right, and I'm not going to jump on the GM hater bandwagon. At least they are taking initiative and building a real car Americans can be proud of, rather using the excuse of buying it because it's American, we can actually say we bought them for the quality. Other domestic car makers need to follow suite.

0to60 - 6/2/2008 8:53:24 PM

0 Boost

yea but stuff happens way too frequently for the american car companies. No one wants to hear excuses anymore. Its old. The domestics have to quickly get there stuff together

85bmw745i - 6/2/2008 8:57:09 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I agree 0-60. Just when it looked like GM was getting it together.

91z4me - 6/3/2008 9:46:37 AM

0 Boost

0to60,

I would think that recent quality drops from Toyota would have shown how thin the walls of the glass house can be. Japanese fan boys really can't go throwing around the 'superb quality' of that brand anymore. Sure Lexus is doing a great job with quality but it is an upscale marque (and it isn't alone at the top of the heap). GM has done a darn good job of improving and matching the Toyota of old's quality while putting out some attractive new vehicles. I say give credit where it is due instead of bashing based upon bias.

0to60 - 6/3/2008 12:06:43 PM

-1 Boost

91z4me, sorry but I disagree. Although I commend GM for doing better, but they still have a long way to go. Are you calling me a fanboy? Obviously you dont know me well. I just like to think I call it like it is, whether the shit comes from Japan, America or Germany. It is what it is.

bestofallcad - 6/4/2008 1:53:57 PM

+1 Boost

Thank you!!! GO GM!!!

Monk - 6/2/2008 5:42:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It's too bad when third-party sources ultimately deliver some crap into the hands of the automakers.
Many of the electronic malfunctions in MBs were sourced from Bosch's electronic brakes
Now this!

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85bmw745i - 6/2/2008 6:30:39 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Kind of like what GM did to the Corvair back in the days ruining them by selling them defective and inferior parts because they made a better car.

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85bmw745i - 6/2/2008 7:39:18 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Now GM is on the recieving end, and they have really tried hard and have brought some products that America can be proud of for once. It's sad that a supplier gives them such a bad rep with the hybrid, kind of like how AC delco made such shoddy ignition control modules and horrible electronics, although it did keep mechanics like me busy with work. otherwise I wouldn't have had a job.

BigShow50 - 6/2/2008 8:10:55 PM

0 Boost

At the end of the day, just like all other piss-poor executive decision GM makes, this was another choice they made as a supplier, knowing full well what they are getting themselves into considering the rival they have to face...(letter "T" of coarse!), no more time for mistakes or excuses!!!

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91z4me - 6/3/2008 9:49:39 AM

0 Boost

What about when Toyota was having camshaft problems on the Tundra everyone gave "the big T" a pass on that and blamed the supplier.

0to60 - 6/3/2008 12:08:06 PM

+3 Boost

Who is everyone? I would never buy a Tundra.

Lemonade - 6/3/2008 1:19:41 PM

0 Boost

91z4me,

Give it up dude! If I can recall correctly, weren't you the one who was rambling off on how much more "advance" GM Hybrids are than Toyota? With the current trend of people switching over to fuel efficient vehicles, any issues with Hybrids, Diesels, Compacts are scrutinized. GM has a long history of Lemons, and it's going to take them a very long time to win America back. Although it is a good shift for General Motors to fuel efficent, it just took them too long.

91z4me - 6/4/2008 12:49:33 AM

+2 Boost

Lemonade,

Yep I spoke of how GM's 2 mode hybrid systems are more advanced than Toyota's Synerdrive systems. Because they are. That is why BMW, MB, Chrysler et al are jumping on that bandwagon and partnering up. GM's RWD and FWD 2 mode systems use a lot of the same parts and programming. The mild hybrid systems are merely a stopgap, and a toe in the pool of the hybrid market. Besides people don't complain about the BMW start stop system or other brands just GMs.

It may be cool to jump on the anti GM bandwagon but lets face facts here: GM's supplier made an error and GM is stepping up to the plate replacing the batteries. I see no difference between this and Toyota's woes with the Tundra transmissions/camshafts, Camry transmissions, or Tacoma frame rot. Sure it would be best if everything worked all the time but that doesn't happen. Lets be fair if Toyota gets a pass for supplier issues GM gets a pass for supplier issues, and visa versa if GM doesn't get the pass Toyota shouldn't get the pass.

Don't drink the koolaid.

blueshirts0819 - 6/5/2008 9:59:01 AM

+1 Boost

So where is this GM hyrid now??? And where are all the makers you mentioned? "That is why BMW, MB, Chrysler et al are jumping on that bandwagon and partnering up. GM's RWD and FWD 2 mode systems use a lot of the same parts and programming." Where are their hyrids??

Every automaker always talk big, especially the US auto industry, but when comes delivering products to the consumers, unless it is profitable, we will never see it in the market.

huu76 - 6/2/2008 9:59:11 PM

+2 Boost

If its just the battery, then GM is taking the hit on someone else's junk. Main problem with outsourcing, just like how everyone's gas lines are cracking.

A good argument for GM to adopt Toyota's SynergyDrive if said battery is the best they came up with.

I doubt it'll stick with GM long though, customers will get it fixed and they'll forgive.

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mercuryguy - 6/3/2008 12:54:53 AM

+2 Boost

How will these batteries hold up once the car is beyond the warranty?

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91z4me - 6/3/2008 9:51:11 AM

-2 Boost

How good will any battery hold up beyond warranty?

Wouldn't it depend on the specs and prior usage?

bestofallcad - 6/4/2008 2:13:16 PM

0 Boost

They do not hold up and they cost about 3,600. so with all the money you are saving on gas save it for the battery YOU WILL NEED IT!!!!!!

mercuryguy - 6/3/2008 12:56:35 AM

+2 Boost

Every battery powered device I have owned, became disposable well before it reached end of life.

There just has to be a better way, out there, somewhere.

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91z4me - 6/3/2008 1:20:13 PM

+1 Boost

0to60,

I don't know you from Adam. And if you read my post you will see I never called you a fanboy at all.

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Lemonade - 6/3/2008 2:10:04 PM

0 Boost

I too commend GM for finally coming around, but why did it take so long? They can't just switch their image from "Guzzler" to "Green" in a couple of years and expect to gain a lot of ground on the Japanese that have been focusing on more fuel efficient models (4 cyl, 6 cyl) for a very long time. With the current "Green" movement, what would GM's position be if gas was still less than $2/gal, Guzzler or Green?

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bestofallcad - 6/4/2008 2:02:55 PM

+1 Boost

Well if gas was 2.00 agallon they would put the Japanese cars out of business, Toyota, Lexus, Honda's, have a very boring car. Nissan and Infiniti I think are the only Japanese cars that have done well and put out a exciting and good looking car the rest of the Japanese cars are boring, boring, and more boring.

I also think that in years to come GM will come up with some of most inovative technology out there for energy conservation, Whatch in years to come. I think GM is the sleeping Gaint. I also beleive in our country, Because we have invented most of all of the technology which the world always copies after we invent it.

blueshirts0819 - 6/5/2008 10:16:36 AM

+1 Boost

well 'bestofallcad', I don't know what cave you just came out from but when gas was $1.50-$2, toyota and honda cars are already beating US automakers. The only thing that is keeping them afloat are those pickup trucks and SUV that American loves so much. And now gas is $4 and up, US automakers are scrambling to make small cars.

watching these H2 and H3 sitting on the lot just makes me laugh at what morons run these auto industry and how unprepared they are.

Oh well, another major bailout soon by the US gov. for auto industry.

gregsfc - 6/8/2008 5:58:12 PM

+1 Boost

My wife drives a Saturn Aura Hybrid with this mild-hybrid system. It's the same system that has been in the Saturn Vue since '06. We average 29.8 mpg (city 30%; hwy 70% @ 65 mph). Our first set of batteries leaked after 6-months (2 out of the three batteries were leaking but they replaced all three).

As for the effectiveness of the hybrid system, I calculate that is good for about 3 miles per gallon. We rented a Malibu (same car) with the same engine/transmission and averaged 3 mpg less using the same driving routine though the Malibu had more low-end get-up-and-go.

On a good note, we got $1300 back from the IRS but paid only $800 more for the hybrid versus the standard V-6, so we actually paid less for the hybrid than we could have paid for any other version of that car. I just hope we're not buying battery packs after the 100K warranty on the hybrid system!

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