GM says Chevrolet Volt will knock Prius off no.1 spot

omarrana submitted on 08/20/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:33 PM
from: www.egmcartech.com

Tags: Chevrolet

Chevrolet

GM says Chevrolet Volt will knock Prius off no.1 spot

We keep getting invited from GM to sit in on one of their live chats over at GMNext.com Around 3pm EDT yesterday we decided to give it a shot because we were interested in what Bob Boniface, Design Director for the Chevrolet Volt, had to say about the upcoming plug-in hybrid.

What we already know about the Volt: We’re just going to go ahead and make a bullet list of all the things we already know about the Volt.

- Unofficially, over 34,000 people are interested in purchasing the Volt seeing as the price is around $31,000.
- GM will show the Volt to employees at its 100th anniversary celebration - an LA Auto Show debut is rumored.
- The original fuel-tank capacity of the Volt has been shrunk to less than 12 gallons, cutting down the original target range of 600 miles to 360 miles.
- GM plans to produce 70,000 units in the first 2 years.
- A price of $30,000 is not likely without tax credits and incentives.
- The Chevrolet Volt will get 40 miles on electric charge alone and can be charged via any house socket.

Click through to read what we learned from Bob Boniface yesterday during the Chevrolet Volt chat... Read Article

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AMiodynski - 8/20/2008 4:16:31 PM

-9 Boost

More than $30k, and only 360 mile range... I'll stick to the Prius at under $28K loaded, and over 500 miles on a tank !!

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91z4me - 8/20/2008 4:42:03 PM

+4 Boost

You can get over 500 miles on a single tank in a Suburban as well. It doesn't matter to me if I get 500 miles to a tank or 200 miles to the tank, I don't drive more than 500 miles at a time more than once every few years so why is it such a big deal to so many people?

Perhaps they are just looking for something to bitch about since Toyota's pet isn't going to be #1 for long.

Lemonade - 8/20/2008 8:09:08 PM

+2 Boost

91z4me,

Sure the Suburban may get 500 miles a tank, but for the amount of money used to fill up a Suburban.. you can fill up the Prius 3-4 times. So that would mean that you can drive the Prius over 1500 miles on the Suburban gas bill.

Lemonade - 8/20/2008 8:20:41 PM

+2 Boost

damikco,

I understand that logic of 18-20 miles each way, but understand that the masses that buy Hybrids commute farther than just 40 miles round trip. What about road trips? Why would I spend $30K on a commuter, granted that I live 18 miles from work? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

91z4me - 8/20/2008 10:58:26 PM

+1 Boost

Lemonade,
I am well aware of the tank size on a Suburban (some in excess of 60 gallons). I was just pointing out the idiocracy of saying the Volt will be inferior to the Prius just because it gets less miles per gallon.

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 3:36:31 PM

+4 Boost

damanikco,

That would be a perfect everyday life scenario in a perfect world. It doesn't make sense to spend $31,000+ on a car I'm only going to be driving 40 miles only to stop somewhere to recharge it. You bring up a valid point on the cost, but did it every occur to you that the Volt would require charging which requires the use of electricity which also cost money? WOW! here's a better way of looking at it.. I save money on gas driving a Volt, but I add to my electric bill... WOW, I'll be saving a ton of money. I bring up the cost of electricity because they also use crude oil to produce it.

Let's face it, the Volt is a HUGE step in the right directon but the Prius makes the most economical sense between the two. If I'm traveling to Los Angeles from San Francisco, I'm not going to be stopping every 36 miles (saving 4 miles to be safe) to recharge my car. Here's a couple of questions.. If your intent is not to use a drop of gasoline.. Are you going to stop at every gas station every 40 miles to recharge your car? Are you going to map out every family memeber you have between your start and destination point to make sure you have places to recharge your car? And if I do decide to let the car recharge itself (on the small gasoline engine) all the way down there, then the weak 360 mile range wouldn't make sense.

This is a complete marketing ploy to hype up their up and coming Company-Savior. The Malibu couldn't save them, as goes with this car because everybody (not just GM and Toyota) is working on a plug-in Hybrid.

komododave - 8/23/2008 7:04:44 PM

+1 Boost

Lemonade
You obviously don't know how the volt works. You wouldn't have to stop every forty miles to recharge. When the electrical energy gets low in the battery, the ICE turns on and recharges the battery. Because the ICE in a Volt is tuned to be a generator, it will be at it's maximum fuel efficiency at all times which means no matter how you drive it, the gas mileage doesn't change, you always get the best. The Prius can't and won't ever be able to do this even when the car has a plug in ability because the ICE is actually connected to the drive train and there are no plans to change that.
As for the electricity bill, the price of electricity is much lower than the price of gas. It'll cost a quarter as much to recharge the battery compared to gas.

Lemonade - 8/25/2008 11:44:17 PM

+1 Boost

komodoSIDEBUSTERdave,

I'm pretty positive you went ahead and replied to my post without even realizing that I was referring to damikco's logic in his post. It doesn't matter if it's ICE, Rice, Mice, Dice, etc.. 360 mile range is WEAK!

holmstar - 8/20/2008 4:36:57 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

360 miles on a tank is not a big deal.

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pchera01 - 8/20/2008 4:40:36 PM

-3 Boost

many GM cars make better MPG than Prius already.

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800over - 8/21/2008 4:17:59 PM

+4 Boost

And monkeys fly out of my butt.....next on Geraldo!

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 8:21:49 PM

+3 Boost

pchera01,

There is NO gasoline car produced by GM that gets better MPG than the Prius, not even any of they Hybrids.

Nice dream though..

truckmen - 8/23/2008 2:40:33 AM

+2 Boost

Name one please.

holmstar - 8/20/2008 4:42:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

if you really want to compare the two cars...

If you drive 50 miles per day and average 45 mpg (prius) then you would use about 33 gallons of fuel per month. Assuming that the volt will get similar gas milage when running as a hybrid, that would be 10 miles worth of fuel per day for a total of less than 7 gallons per month.

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Whelan - 8/20/2008 4:52:23 PM

+5 Boost

OK, for the slow people that are horrible at math I will explain this one more time.

The Volt gets 360 miles on its gas engine per tank. The Volt also gets 40 miles for every full charge. If your commute is within a 40 mile round trip, then you don't have to use any gas during your commute. A Prius uses gas constantly so it gets over 500 to a tank. OK great.

I drive a Prius to work everyday let's say. I have a 50 mile commute. That is 250 miles each week in just work commuting. So no driving at night or weekends that is 2 weeks of driving with a Prius.

Same scenario with a Volt.

I drive a Volt to work everyday, 50 mile commute. Same 250 miles each week. But I get 40 miles each day on a charge. Assuming I only charge it each night I would only use 10 miles on the engine, the rest would be full electric. So 10 miles a day in one week of work driving is only 50 miles used on the engine. Assuming I don't drive at night or on weekends (same scenario as the Prius). And remember I get 360 miles to that tank of gas. I could commute to work for 7 weeks technically speaking, and still have 10 miles to spare.

Are you still with me? Why would GM need to add the extra weight of fuel to a car when it gets 40 miles on full electric. You would fill up the Prius' larger tank a lot more thus spending more. It's simple math.

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CRS2112 - 8/20/2008 5:01:51 PM

+4 Boost

I think people are just not accepting the fact that Chevy might have something here. They have certainly made way more misses then hits the past 30 years - but something beside the Vette had to work out eventually. It is the law of averages.

With Chevy onlookers- it is easier to say - it isn't going to work then to swallow the pill and say - you know this might work.

My biggest concern is the quality - not the fuel. The first to hit the streets are going to have to be rock solid to ensure success.

american_made - 8/21/2008 12:35:44 AM

+2 Boost

Wow Whelan, it is nice to see a smart individual on a site full of American haters, who by the way, are obviously uneducated. Well to everyone who loves to hate, get over it, American cars are coming back in a big way...accept it and appreciate it....

CRS2112 - 8/20/2008 4:54:56 PM

+1 Boost

Which car is going to be fun to drive? That is more important to me then saving a few hundred dollars a year.

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komododave - 8/23/2008 7:09:11 PM

+1 Boost

I guarantee the Volt will be more fun to drive. With the 100% torque on demand of the dedicated-at-all-times electric motors, this thing will smoke the prius. Not that thats hard to do in the first place. A car with great acceleration plus graeat gas mileage will be awesome.

bigmotov - 8/20/2008 5:04:12 PM

-1 Boost

"Produce 70,000 in the first 2 years"

Good luck GM! You need larger numbers than that if you're going to be #1. Toyota is already selling over 200,000 Prius per year AND they are increasing production and a new one is coming out...right???

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bigmotov - 8/20/2008 5:10:14 PM

+2 Boost

My commute is well under 40 miles. I would love to never fuel up!!! Assuming I don't have to drive 15 mph to achieve that, I would definitely be in the market!

no1listensanyway - 8/20/2008 5:05:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Im sure the Volt is going to be a great, iconic vehicle, but I can't help but feel that GM is rushing this one, and its going to show when it comes out.

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topneuro - 8/20/2008 5:09:07 PM

0 Boost

With a tank of 10-12 gallons 360 mile range is 30-36 miles per gallon sucks! A pathetic range for an “Electric/gas” vehicle, implied not a Zero emission vehicle (ZEV). I can get the same range and pollute the same with a Mini convertible spend less money and have more fun. A Subaru R1e will give you 100 mile charge range and is a ZEV. The addition of a gas engine was to extend mile range continues not intermittent. The 1997 Toyota Rav4 also a ZEV had a 150 mile range per charge, the few remaining today in California with their factory 1997 batteries still give a 75 mile range per charge beat the Volt electric battery range by 35 miles. Good math for a 11 year old ZEV.

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91z4me - 8/20/2008 6:59:26 PM

+1 Boost

Who said the tank was going to be 10 gallons? What if the tank was 7 or 8 gallons? Would you be impressed then?

Perhaps instead of bashing based on nothing you should wait to see what the car actually has!

Wax1 - 8/20/2008 7:16:19 PM

+1 Boost

The article needs an adjustment please... Nice bullet points on what we know...hehe

"The original fuel-tank capacity of the Volt has been shrunk to less than 12 gallons, cutting down the original target range of 600 miles to 360 miles."

"Less than 12 gallons" is pretty misleading but I guess it is factually correct. I believe the actual number is around 6 or 7 gallons for the new design. That might explain the range dropping from 600 to 360.

CRS2112 - 8/20/2008 5:39:31 PM

+2 Boost

Another thought - how many people are going to be running an extension cord out the window of there office to charge it? Drive to work without using any gas. Charge using company electricity. Drive home. Perfect!!

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SanJoseDriver - 8/20/2008 5:41:05 PM

+4 Boost

GM says Chevrolet Volt will knock Prius off no.1 spot....

How is this possible if they are only producing 70k in the next 2 years?? Prius production is going to break 200k a year. If the next Prius is a hit, production will increase even more. I wish GM the best of luck, but it's going to be an uphill battle for sure.

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91z4me - 8/20/2008 7:00:50 PM

+2 Boost

Volt w/ be the #1 technology and mileage. Prius might sell more but heck the Civic sells more than it does, does that mean the Civic is above the Prius?

komododave - 8/23/2008 7:11:28 PM

+1 Boost

Do you read? It is coming. They have a date, dedicated funds and engineers and test mules.

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mpwr - 8/24/2008 9:31:02 AM

+1 Boost

every time you feel compelled to believe your own delusions just stare at the front end of the new Acura TL, maybe that will bring you back to reality

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topneuro - 8/20/2008 6:04:08 PM

+1 Boost

Prius= big gas engine with big tank + small batteries + electric motor.
Volt=small gas engine with small tank + big batteries + electric motor.
Prius=Volt=gasoline consumption with trips to gas stations.
ZEV is the way to go; even with petroleum product generated electricity
petroleum consumption is less = not a happy sheik.

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truckmen - 8/23/2008 2:52:35 AM

+1 Boost

Are you suggesting the Zen is the way to go? Maybe if you are in the market for a golf cart, this Volt is head and shoulders above the Zen! I like to drive faster than 40mph! And further than the zen could ever take me.

DrFill2009 - 8/20/2008 6:40:16 PM

-1 Boost

Did anyone hear something?
A cry of wolf?
A fantasy?
DrFill

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johnnyb - 8/20/2008 7:30:01 PM

+4 Boost

I don't think it will happen, GM has a image problem over here, something Toyota doesn't have to worry about. Now don't get me wrong, I wish that wasn't the case, but only GM has itself to blame for that.

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91z4me - 8/20/2008 7:38:53 PM

+3 Boost

Why are people questioning the production of the Volt? GM showed off a concept, they have mules w/ the powertrains testing RIGHT NOW. The mules have already achieved the 40 miles on electric only. The production model will be unvield later this year with SOP in 2010 just like GM said whenever they decided to build the Volt.

I mean do you people just like bagging on GM so much that you ignore FACTS?!

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Lemonade - 8/20/2008 8:03:01 PM

+1 Boost

They question the Volt because it's "Promises" have constantly been revised. GM has been teasing the public with mere glimpse of their concept electric car to try and salvage any public interest, almost like a marketing ploy. Toyota has their own electric car in the works though it hasn't been as highly publicized as the Volt, it's still coming. I mean, think about it.. GM isn't doing good at all and they have really been hurting (stocks) as of late. Toyota on the other hand isn't doing great either, but they're nowhere near as bad a shape as GM is.

I see quite a few post about people using different logic's like driving the Volt only 40 miles for the day to ensure that you don't use a drop of gasoline is ridiculous. I'm not going to plan my day around 40 miles or any amount of mileage for that matter. I'd rather drive the Proven Prius, than pin my hopes on what still remains a concept.

91z4me - 8/20/2008 11:10:21 PM

-1 Boost

Lemonade I have to question what you are saying GM hasn't change ANY promises of the Volt. They said it would get 40 miles on electric charge only. They said it will have an onboard ICE used to provide electricity to motor once the batteries reach a specified level. Once the decision to produce it was made the date of production in 2010 was set, and it hasn't been changed since. So tell me what has changed about what GM has said in respect to the Volt?

GM hasn't been teasing anything, it has been showing off a concept car (like every company does when one turns out to be a hit), and it is a hybrid NOT an electric vehicle. You can call it marketing but just like Toyota has done w/ the Lexus LA-F concept they are showing a concept that has garnered tremendous interest amongst the general public. Unlike Toyota GM has been sharing updates to the development of this highly anticipated car. Its great that Toyota has an electric car in the works but what does that have to do with GM's new hybrid technology?

GM or Toyota's success or failure doesn't really depend on concept cars or the buzz they generate. The overhead and sales are what determines stock prices and either profitability or the lack there of. In GMs case the mistakes of the past are hitting them like a ton of bricks.

I understand liking proven technology over something new but hey wasn't the Synerdrive system new at one point? Didn't it pan out? Isn't the same thing happening with GM's RWD and FWD 2mode hybrids?

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 1:36:10 AM

+3 Boost

"Lemonade I have to question what you are saying GM hasn't change ANY promises of the Volt."

I'm sorry, but wasn't this car promised to get around 600 miles between fill ups?

"The Volt will be able to travel 40 miles on a full charge, and a small gasoline engine will recharge the batteries to keep it rolling on longer trips. GM says the vehicle will get the equivalent of 150 miles per gallon." (AP-Associated Press)

So, what's up with this 360 miles between fill ups?

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 1:54:54 AM

+3 Boost

Are you kidding me?? Those 2 mode Hybrids are a complete joke. Didn't any of these Automakers learn from the failed Honda Accord Hybrid? Let's be real, the MPG is what really attracts people to Hybrids while the low emissions (Green) is just an added bonus. Although the Accord didn't use the 2 mode Hybrid, the increase in MPG wasn't drastic enough to lure in as many buyers to declare it a success. It's the same concept with these 2 mode Hybrids built in to these guzzlers. When will these people ever learn?

And just to emphasize on one of your earlier post about the Volt having the #1 technology and MPG.. What exactly are you implying? Do you think GM is the only one working on a plug in Hybrid?

I like how you mention how GM has been sharing updates about the Volt with the General public. Of course they are going to share information on this high-profile car because "the entire company's future could rest on it." (AP-Associated Press)

Toyota's future doesn't rely on any particular model.

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 3:53:27 PM

+2 Boost

damanilikco,

You're joking, right? a mild hybrid vs a full hybrid? Why are you comparing the different sizes of the Full Size SUV and the Prius? Would it be fair if I were to bring up the fact that there are people out there that can get up to 80+ MPG (depending on driving habits) on their Prius, can't say the same about the 2 mode SUV's or cars.

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 3:59:59 PM

+2 Boost

damanikkkco,

Once again I know you've been fooled again by GM's marketing ploy's about the 2 mode Hybrid SUV getting UP TO 50% better fuel economy. Why don't they just come out and say that it get's 30 mpg instead of "beating around the bush"? Because they know how much of a hit they would take due to all the disappointments they will face when the consumers realize that they have to drive like old ladies to achieve such gas mileage.

91z4me - 8/21/2008 4:48:42 PM

0 Boost

Lemonade, You are over looking the good points far to much. I am not talking about the RWD two mode system found in the GMT900 cars I am talking about the two mode FWD system found in the Vue greenline. It yields supriseing performance AND economy for a 3.6 L V6. And the reason that GM promotes the 50% improvement in economy is that NO other hybrid system on the planet will increase economy 50%! If the Toyota Synerdrive were that efficient the Camry hybrid would reach over 60 mpg, which it certainly does not.

As for the hypermilers reaching obscene numbers, great for them. But what about people that drive in a normal fashion?

Lemonade - 8/21/2008 8:16:47 PM

+2 Boost

91z4me,

Don't forget that GM's infamous 2 mode Hybrid was also co-produced by Chrysler and BMW.

AGAIN! GM says that it gets an improvement of "UP TO" 50%, so in order to get those results I'm sure Hypermiling will utilized in that case. You show me an article or anything that proves a GM vehicle with 50% improvement in MPG while driving under normal conditions. The highest I've seen in an article for the Tahoe is the 2 mode Hybrid returning 22.9 MPG which is about a 15% improvement from the gasoline model.

The Saturn Green Line models get about 32 MPG which is 1 mile better than the 4 Cyl Camry.

Bottom line is that the Prius still makes a lot more economical sense than (NOT YET) Volt.

sold2early - 8/20/2008 8:31:47 PM

+3 Boost

GM says lots of funny things.

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Gaybear - 8/21/2008 3:16:17 AM

+4 Boost

Once again it's AN AMERICAN DREAM that can come true!!! Although, 99.9% of the American Dreams failed....

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Whelan - 8/21/2008 9:28:05 AM

+1 Boost

Read my post up towards the top for all the neanderthals who can't understand the concept.

It does not get 360 miles to a tank in the same sense that a Prius does. Every time you charge the car up, you get a 40 mile full electric run.

Also keep in mind that the Volt's engine is going to run similar to that of a diesel/electric locomotive. At no time will the engine ever, EVER drive the wheels. The car runs on electric motors. The engine will turn on and run at a constant RPM. This will in turn charge the batteries and run the generator that powers the electric motors. Again, think modern day DE locomotives.

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PlanB - 8/21/2008 1:47:26 PM

+1 Boost

Not to mention that GM has currently put MOST, if not all, of their R&D budget into this thing which I think is unbelievable. Another article about the C7 Corvette on here said that its R&D will probably be cut back because GM is spending so much of their resources on the Volt. This is definitely GM's "make or break" automobile arguably for the century. The technology inside it will be a key component to the future of the company IMO.

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ktu01 - 8/22/2008 2:03:38 AM

+2 Boost

Perhaps that is true, and in concept, the Volt seems awesome, but until the car actually launches and is proven, making such a claim is just a tad bit early.

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truckmen - 8/23/2008 2:59:34 AM

+1 Boost

I can't praise this Volt until I know how big the gas tank is so I can calculate the mileage that this can achieve! If this car is an 11 gallon tank with a 360 mile range that would be around the same as a civic! I am hoping for some great numbers to save Chev! Finally a car with some new technology that makes sense, although not even close to pml's flag ship with 640bhp and four hours of battery time and 80mpg when the generator kicks in. A step in the right direction Chev!

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huu76 - 8/23/2008 4:35:29 AM

+3 Boost

Is that $30,000 US? Did no one tell GM the current Prius is only about $22,000 (before tax credits)?

More hybrids/electric cars the better, but I would've thought GM would price it a bit lower so more people could afford it.

A range of 360 miles is a bit low too for my tastes.

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800over - 8/23/2008 12:17:29 PM

+1 Boost

Not to mention GM's portion of the $25 billion they're asking the Governement for. I hope they sell quite a few of them at $30,000...or the Average american will be paying for the bailout.

huu76 - 8/23/2008 4:36:52 AM

+1 Boost

Silly me, thats miles. Just under 600km is pretty good.

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doctorproctor - 8/23/2008 2:12:17 PM

+1 Boost

Just watched a newsworthy interview on tv the other day regarding the volt and GM's future in this field...apparently the whole thing is riding on the battery which still hasn't proved itself yet as far as longevity or durability!...and that they 'hope' to get it right by 2010 or else GM's foray into the electric / hybrid field will be dead! All in all with it's two-door only style I think it will have a very limited appeal.

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komododave - 8/23/2008 7:18:10 PM

+1 Boost

It's not two door. It's a four door hatch back. As for the batteries, I saw the same interview. The batteries are already proven technology in many of our everyday items, like cell phones. The difference is they are substantially bigger and they needed to design them to be larger, which they already did. Don't miss quote an interview that others may have watched.

mpwr - 8/24/2008 10:16:59 AM

+1 Boost

This is the first step in a great direction... Way to go GM. This will beat the Prius of today if its technology stays the same. There is only one post here that pointed out the difference between current hybrid drives and what the Volt uses. Its more a kin to a diesel locomotive, there is no mechanical connection of the internal combustion engine to the drive train. This set up allows a number of advantages...

1-electric motors are 90% more efficient at turning power to work, therefore the more reliance on a primary electric system the higher the theoretical efficiencies

2-any extender "secondary" engine can be used, or simply plugged in, which gives greater flexibility for different markets, ie the European Volt will have a diesel extender engine. It could use fuel cells, natural gas, whatever makes sense for a small efficient secondary power source.

3-no need for complicated drive train coupling between the mechanical engine and the electric engine.

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